Non-carbon and ext routing

I feel your pain. Currently my head has been turned by the Airdrop Edit MX. Possibly because it seems a lot like my old Turner 6 Pack but with modern geometry and standards.
However, is 160 f/r (or possibly 170/170) too capable for "bumbling" (Pinkbike ™) around the Peak. Does a bike like that sanitise more trails than DCC with a lottery win?

I'm not adverse to carbon, shorter travel or internal routing and will ride all my usual stuff on a 120 carbon hard tail quite often.

Raaw Madonna

Or Raaw Jibb if you want shorter travel.

Have you had a test ride on a Bird? That might help decide which version suits.

I've tried various longer and shorter travel options over the years and tend to prefer a bit more travel in general. I find it helps on rocky climbs, and I'd rather really enjoy the techy riding (the bit I find fun) rather than compromise the bike for the sake of the less "interesting" (to me) trails.

I also think that other factors such as wheel and tyre weight/ grip play a huge role in how the bike will feel. So for example you could buy the longer travel bike, and have a lighter weight and burlier set of wheels & tyres to swap depending on the ride.

Interesting point riklegge. It might be argued that we've reached a point where bikes are no longer defined by their travel. Things like geometry and tyre be size/carcass have more influence.

I'd much rather give up 40mm of travel than a tougher tyre carcass and a slacker head angle and longer wheel base are beneficial (up to a point) regardless of suspension travel.

That's part of what I'm trying to understand I guess - with 'obly' 130mm shock how does that translate to how the wheel tracks with decent kinematics, and would I benefit from a lighter build with more travel on the front since I don't do big jumps/drops that need anything too burly.

I know in the early days if 29er, some would say the increased wheel size was worth 20mm of travel.
Given my 6-Pace was 160/160 @26", then a 160 29er or MX might seem like over kill.
The other bike I'm considering is 130/150, full 29er, light weight carbon with internal routing.
It would only be about 2.5lbs lighter if I put the same kit on it. For the riding I do, I'd argue that it's easier to vary the frame than it is the robustness and weight of the rest of the kit.

I'm also starting to wonder just how much difference kinematics make in the current bike market. We can all look at graphs and charts but few people make a bad bike these days. Are the differences we see in the numbers actually perceived by the average rider?

Apparently Richard Cunningham once said that a well designed single pivot is enough bike for most people. Having said that "well designed" as a caveat makes that statement almost worthless.

I know I'm willing to sacrifice "snappiness" and "responsive acceleration" for compliance and traction on rough technical climbs

Geometron G1 is possibly over budget but very much worth a demo. Love mine.

I'm still very undecided, but somehow need to fit a demo into my limited annual leave as Bird (Consett) and Airdrop are only open weekdays. I'm really veering towards the Airdrop as it is slightly cheaper with cyclescheme, but the Aeris just keeps looking nice with more custom build options (Airdrop are offering fixed builds atm). I know realistically I'd be happy with either. 

I'd forgotten Airdrop did cyclescheme. That might change things a bit

There are a couple of Jeht frames on eBay that you could build up if you didn't mind second hand. 

I'm spoiling myself with this and going for new OEM instead of used or self-built, as I defo don't know better than the pros!

Don't bird have demo bikes at Hamsterley?  I'd drop Ben a call at the factory, I'm sure they will help sort something, and the backup/support will have you sold on the brand.

Also try the very active Bird owners facebook page, there will likely be someone local who will let you have a good look their bike.

Bird in Consett are only open weekdays, but I'll give them a call in case they have anything doing at Hamsterley. If not I'll need to find a day off to get up there from West Yorkshire.

Update: I asked for some advice from Bird and they have advised their Aether A9 would be a good option fitted with a 150mm Lyric, as I dont do park or uplift and so techy climbs are part of every ride.

I am really put-off by the marketing that suggests "As much as we like to think of mountain biking as the expression of our desire to explore the unknown wilderness, the reality for most people’s modern day riding is that we’re riding more and more man-made trails. To extract the maximum enjoyment from this more groomed environment, we wanted to build something a little more than just your average short travel full suspension." Is this marketing nonsense, or does it mean something practical in terms of what the bike can do? 

The Aether does look nice (esp with £500 discount right now!), and I could also add 4-pot SLX/Hope brakes. I'm just a bit concerned I would regret it when I inevitably pull up next to something burlier and get glamoured by the long/slack and extra travel on the downs, despite getting the benefits of something a bit more agile.

Has anyone got any experience or opinion about using long vs mid-travel around the uncurated mud and rocks of West Yorks?

Update: I asked for some advice from Bird and they have advised their Aether A9 would be a good option fitted with a 150mm Lyric, as I dont do park or uplift and so techy climbs are part of every ride.

The Aether does look nice (esp with £500 discount right now!), and I could also add 4-pot SLX/Hope brakes. I’m just a bit concerned I would regret it when I inevitably pull up next to something burlier and get glamoured by the long/slack and extra travel on the downs, despite getting the benefits of something a bit more agile.

Has anyone got any experience or opinion about using long vs mid-travel around the uncurated mud and rocks of West Yorks?

I've got an Aether 9 set up with 150mm Lyrik Ultimates and just went with some Deore 4pots as I've found them to be reliable and powerful enough and it helped keep the price down. Ride generally all over the Tweed Valley so a mix of everything you describe and I absolutely love it. Never found travel to be a limiter.

i had a Aether9A with 150mm lyriks - very nice all round bike. If you do go for an Aether9A then if going rockshox for the rear shock, a megneg really makes the rear suspension come alive.

Bird coudl sort that for you at point of order I think. I got my megneg kit from them in a sale.

Thanks for the suggestion - I'm looking at Lyric 150mm fork and RockShox Super Dulux Select, which should be pretty decent.

Also, you 'had' an Aether 9 - have you replaced it with something different?

Also, you ‘had’ an Aether 9 – have you replaced it with something different?

no still got it, but just put it back to a 'proper' trail bike so 140pikes (with the 130rear), lighter tyres etc - lopped a kilo off.

It is quite a flexible frame in terms of make it a burlier bike or a lighter bike.

The megneg shock kit really seems to suit the Aether, it should come on it as std.

Bird are good to deal with as well (had a few bikes off of them) and current prices make it even more attractive. I have always had raw finish, but my sister has a Ron burgandy colour one - def one colour that looks meh in photos but great in the flesh.

what you going with gear wise? Big blue or Big Red? If going for Big blue, then RaceFace Aeffect R Direct Mount Cranks are a good option in the configurator.

Good to know -  aiming for the burlier end, as I really want an Aeris but it would not suit my riding. Shimano Slx, 4-pot, heavier maxis tyres should tick all the boxes.

sounds good! unless going for the XT cranks I would def spec the RaceFace Aeffect R - had (as others I reide with) some issues with deore and slx cranks/chainrings.

if you can get to them they def try both an Aeris and Aether

So, I tried a Aether 9 today - picked up from the factory in Consett and ride at Hamsterley. Big shout out to Bird for doing this on a wknd!

It genuinely made me giggle out loud on Boneshaker - it rolled brilliantly with loads of confidence. I would only want to increase the fork travel and add better brakes.

My only concern was the crap bottle placement with a piggyback shock - is the small fidlock the only option, or has anyone found a solution with a regular bottle? 

Did you notice if it had the bottle cage adapter? I got one with mine that shifts the bottle cage further down (albeit I don't have a piggyback shock but I think with that you should be able to fit a normal bottle - especially if you use a side loading cage like a Specialized Zee)

If a Jeht is too expensive for you how about a second hand Jeht? Does it have to be new?

It had an adaptor, but not sure it would fit a regular bottle. I'll ask before I order anything.

I could be tempted to buy used again, but I'm spoiling myself and being really specific about the spec, and I hate trawling the used forums. And tbh, even a used Jeht prb won't be much cheap than a new Bird with the same spec right now.

I am really put-off by the marketing that suggests “As much as we like to think of mountain biking as the expression of our desire to explore the unknown wilderness, the reality for most people’s modern day riding is that we’re riding more and more man-made trails. To extract the maximum enjoyment from this more groomed environment, we wanted to build something a little more than just your average short travel full suspension.” Is this marketing nonsense, or does it mean something practical in terms of what the bike can do?

This did raise my eyebrows when I read it after eagerly waiting for the launch. I think it was discussed here but I don't remember what the conclusion was. Anyway I bought one as I figured over a year 40-60% of my riding time is on manmade trails made for bikes, rather than mountain paths and bridleways.

To think about attributes of the bike that could be arising from that design goal (these aren't problems per se, just things I've noticed that I don't give it 10/10 for):
1. Short chainstays, needs careful balancing to keep rear traction and the front end planted so you can steer precisely. Probably even more so with a 150mm fork.
2. Suspension isn't very active when climbing, feels like it gets a bit hung up and stalled on things.
3. Low BB, was rarely a problem but I swapped to 165mm cranks anyway.

It's a great bike and design is all about compromise etc. and there's payoffs for those design aspects being how they are, I love how mine handles. It's definitely not just a trail centre bike.

It genuinely made me giggle out loud on Boneshaker – it rolled brilliantly with loads of confidence.

Sounds about right!

is the small fidlock the only option, or has anyone found a solution with a regular bottle?

This might work - "The TWIST bottle 750 compact lives up to its name: Due to the voluminous design, this water bottle does not require more space than the TWIST 590 bottle"

However, I have tried ‘short travel’ bikes and not really liked them on West-Yorkshire, muddy, rocky and rooty stuff (like Stainburn)

Stainburn black looks like a pain in the arse on any bike tbh, at least for me.