[Closed] No Wiggo for the TdF ?

Not up a mountain I'll grant you but when was the last (only?) time you've seen a yellow jersey rider lead out their sprinter going in to the final stage

A leadout in the last 500m where you win even if you fall off is not the same as loosing 30 mins after destroying yourself up a mountain

I find it hard to believe that Wiggans isn't 'good enough' to make the team. There's Froome and Porte, so that leaves 7 others. Are you saying there are 7 Sky riders better than Wiggans? If so, name them. If not, he's in.

Unless Froome doesn't want him in... but is it up to him?

The way Froome talks he makes it seem like there only room for one "number 2" - namely Porte, which is clearly boll*cks. Plus how many races has Porte failed to finish in recent months - is it 3 ?
And as for the rest of the team being settled - more rubbish. Sky have been struggling to field a full team in a number of races, so they can ill afford to drop one of their few riders with any sort of form this season.

So if they do, it's purely going to be under threat from Froome.

They'll be crashes aplenty in that first week (surely Geraint Thomas is too much of a risk!!) so Sky ought to have a Plan B.

[quote=Junkyard ]his manager who is his partners tweets [ him basically IMHO], racing off on the climb,, autobiography moaning about that climb that tour and Wiggo in general...now I type it he might just hate Wiggo to be fair,

I get the feeling she was pretty bitter that Wiggo never thanked Froome for towing him up the mountains and then stiffing Froome out of his share of the winnings (TdF winners split their winnings usually, Wiggins did, just forgot Froome for about a year). I get the feeling they're just a bit chalk and cheese though and don't get on beyond keeping professional. I have a few people here I'd never have work with each other because something would go nuclear but they're happy to be polite in passing.

The way Froome talks he makes it seem like there only room for one "number 2" - namely Porte, which is clearly boll*cks. Plus how many races has Porte failed to finish in recent months - is it 3 ?

The Number 2 thing is about having a rider who could win the GC against the competition. I guess Froome feels that Porte would be better placed to win in mountains than Wiggins if he crashed. I don't know if that's true but he also is a mate of Portes so it'd be a far easier relationship during the race.

From the comfort of your desks who would your sky GC contenders top three be in order then?

I'd go

1: Froome
2: Wiggins
3: Porte.

Which is why I'd take Wiggins and Froome on the same team even if it meant renting a second bus for 3 weeks. I was poking the bear a bit earlier but in reality I think they can all be trusted to do the job that's required of them.

I'm not convinced Wiggins would...

(stay loyal/do what he's told/ride how the team want him to)

But there is no evidence of this? No precedent.

Why do people think Wiggans wouldn't support the team?

Or, taking a bigger view, why would Wiggans jeopardise his reputation? I just can't see it at all myself.

I reckon you'd have Froome and Porte as one and two, then Wiggins as super domestique, turn himself inside out up the start of climbs to keep the other two safe.

But there is no evidence of this? No precedent.

Millar bitches about him blowing out Garmin and not riding for the team in his book, but who knows the real story.

Yeah, Millar is quite clear that they gave Wiggins a chance to become a GC contender and he wriggled out of the final year of a contract despite giving assurances he was looking to extend the contract possibly up to 2012. I think they've reconciled but Wiggins does come out of it looking like a "me first" sort of person.

reggiegasket - Member

But there is no evidence of this? No precedent.

Why do people think Wiggans wouldn't support the team?

well, he wouldn't publicly state that he wouldn't ride for the team, he'd probably withdraw with an 'injury', perhaps a hurty knee?

Wiggins does come out of it looking like a "me first" sort of person.

Brailsford has already said he thinks an awkward team dynamic is a good thing, so I can still see Wiggins making the team. The effect might well be that Froome and Wiggins up their games out of a bit of mutual dislike, but the end result might be a better team performance? I think the media are also making it look more adversarial than it actually is...

It all makes for a fascinating story too, just think how many sporting rivalries (in cycling and beyond: think of Hinault/Lemond) have made for utterly fascinating moments or achievements. It could be argued that rivalry brings out more than harmony sometimes...

Wiggins does come out of it looking like a "me first" sort of person.

I reckon in most sports (and elsewhere) those are the people who reach the very top, and win.

Total NON STORY ( imho )

Sky ( like other teams ) will field the squad they think gives them the best chance of Yellow in Paris .... END OF .....

As an aside Froome himself hinted in a recent interview that it may benefit Sky if Wiggins, Porte and Froome all rode as they would have 3 genuine GC contenders for the other teams to watch

More importantly, anyone know if Kyrienka is riding ? Last I heard he wasn't very well..
Be sad if he wasn't in the Tour, I totally admire him. 😕

Finished on the podium of the Bayern Rundfahrt (or however it's spelled), probably in the TdF team

As an aside Froome himself hinted in a recent interview that it may benefit Sky if Wiggins, Porte and Froome all rode as they would have 3 genuine GC contenders for the other teams to watch

Be nice to see Contador blowing away all three of them, and not just Froome 😈

Can't see it happening, though 🙁

[img] [/img]

Be nice to see Contador blowing away all three of them, and not just Froome

Can't see it happening, though

Not since he changed his [s]doctor[/s] butcher..

Contador ..... he tried everything last year and got nowhere. He was left standing when Froome attacked. Wrong kind of steak.

I'm going to guess after Oleg Tinkoff's comments last year, that Contador will have the right kind of meat preparation this year.

Bertie does have a new beef supplier [url= http://www.bikeradar.com/road/news/article/contadors-team-picks-up-new-beef-sponsor-41051/ ]link[/url] and he has also been back on top form this year.

Anyone know if he is riding Dauphine or Suisse ?

Froome, Wiggo & Porte for a 1-2-3 in Paris 😀

Froome recently kicked up a bit of a fuss saying there's been no testing out in Tenerife. It's almost like he thinks Contador and Nibali have some sort of doping past and thinks they could do with checking out. 😆

Although more seriously I think he also wants to ensure nobody says he's doping this year

Be a pity if Brad isnt there , hes not riding bad and if anything happened to Froome in the opening hectic week, it could save Sky a repeat of 2011 when if I remember correctly they had no rider in the top 20 after brads crash and broken collar bone?? Think with out too much trouble Brad could make top 10 and with a bit of luck maybe even podium, cant see anyone else on Sky team that could/would finish as high its a long 2 weeks with no interest in GC.

Can't really blame him considering the scrutiny he faced last year. I think that he and other pros have to accept that to some extent but he's right to make the point I reckon.

ChunkyMTB - Member
ChunkyMTB - Member
Wiggo won't be on the Tour... trust me...
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Go on then Chunky, I'll bite the bait 😀

Why would we trust you?

Although more seriously I think he also wants to ensure nobody says he's doping this year

They'll say it anyway, however much he protests 🙁

Of course they will, it's just to what degree. I do wonder how Wiggo would have coped with the post-Armstrong inquisition that Froome faced at the Tour (I know he faced it at the time as reigning champion but not actually at the Tour)

Froome recently kicked up a bit of a fuss saying there's been no testing out in Tenerife. It's almost like he thinks Contador and Nibali have some sort of doping past and thinks they could do with checking out.

Although more seriously I think he also wants to ensure nobody says he's doping this year

To be fair, if you're riding clean - and let's assume he's genuinely clean - it must be a big worry knowing your success is at the merci of whether your rivals cheat or not.

As for Wiggins. To me, he has proven his performance this year. Put him in the Tour and let us see some action. I'll be disappointed if he's not there.

Am I the only person on here who likes both Wiggins & Froome?

They're very different but I find much to admire in both their approaches and neither would have got where they are today without almost superhuman levels of dedication and sacrifice.

I'll be up in Yorkshire next year and happy to cheer for both of them.

You're looking at it as a spectator and I agree, it'd be great (probably) to have him in.

But if you were Brailsford, frankly all you'd really care about was whether it will make Froome more or less likely to win.

I'll be up in Yorkshire next year and happy to cheer for both of them.

You might be a little lonely.

I think Wiggo's lead out of Cav was an attempt to make good some of the dissapointment Cav felt after the Athens Olympics and also the 2012 Tour where Cav's aspirations had to tae second place. As posted it didn't cost Wiggo anything and certainly helped him look good.

As for the TdF 1/2/3 question I think it could be Froome/Porte/Wiggins as Porte supports Froome on the climbs and Wiggins has to fend for himself, if Froome is injured then Wiggins/Porte as Porte is asked to ride for Wiggins.

I was very happy to see Froome win last year and I'd like to see him do it again but if it costs Wiggins his place in the team that changes a lot for me.

The only thing I can add is that Sky will look pretty stupid if Wiggins is not in the team and Froome crashes out early as Wiggins did in 2011.

I just wish they could both race together and be happy with the boss's verdict on who is Number 1 and who is Number 2.

I do wonder how Wiggo would have coped with the post-Armstrong inquisition that Froome faced at the Tour

lots of pottymouth and an epic flounce, probably

anyone posted this yet?
[url= https://twitter.com/velocast/status/474138711270387712/photo/1 ]velocast[/url]

Team sky keeping everyone guessing and on the back foot,come the start the other teams will have Wiggo,Frome and Porte to try and stay in touch with,Brad will lead out till the mountains taking pressure off Frome and if he hasn't gone down on the cobbles Frome to take over in the mountain with Porte and to a lesser part Brad supporting after that anyone's guess depends on where they are time wise could come down to a two horse race to the end.

But that's the point; Sky lets them race each other and they stand to lose because they're looking at each other which means at best, Froome has a 7-man support or at worst, 3 or 4. That's why teams usually pick a leader and a 2nd.

Still see it going down that way just think sky will hedge there bets till after the mountains,on an aside a think Frome has got the grunt cause he's NOT a knight of the relm 😀

[quote=butcher ]To be fair, if you're riding clean - and let's assume he's genuinely clean - it must be a big worry knowing your success is at the merci of whether your rivals cheat or not.

I don't suppose he thanks them - not even the French ones.

The idea from some on this thread that Wiggo wouldn't make the TdF team on merit based on performance and potential to help Froome is frankly quite bizarre. You don't win the Tour of California without being a very good rider in good form - undoubtedly he's stronger on the flat and on the climbs than most other Team Sky riders, including most of the team going to the DL. Of course there is clearly the issue of personalities, but is DB really going to take a rider who can't do what Wiggo can do because he's incapable of managing that, even assuming that Wiggo is really likely to rock the boat.

If Wiggo is targeting the track in Rio 2016 as suspected, he will want a stress-free 2015 in order to prepare, there are rumours that Orica are interested in him, they also seem to be interested in Richie Porte but he has another year on his Contract and isnt technically available until the end of 2015.

The whole Alonso thing appears to be stalling the process though Sagan to Tinkoff is a done deal apparently. Alonso needs riders with UCI points to get WT status but no team is going to let a likely transfer target to acquire loads of points only to move to Alonso next year... quite a few big names are out of Contract at the end of 2014, Tony Martin, Eddie Higgs Boson, Rui Costa...

Alonso is also targeting an exclusive bike deal too..... I see Halfords bought Boardman today?! 😉

Criterium Dauphine should be very interesting to gauge the Froome/Wiggo relationship

...an aside a think Frome has got the grunt cause he's NOT a knight of the relm

He never convinced me that he's not Kenyan.

Well Wiggins was born in Belguim to and Aussie father wasn't he?

At least both Froome's parents were British. 😉

Anyone else think it's completely pointless having Porte as number 2 for the TDF ? He's proven this year (and last) that he doesn't have what it takes to win a Grand Tour, so having him as backup in case of a problem with Froome means the best you've got is a Top 10. Whether Wiggins can win it on this tour, this day, this time, we don't know.. but he has proven he can win a Tour at least.

Anyone else think it's completely pointless having Porte as number 2 for the TDF ?

He's proven this year (and last) that he doesn't have what it takes to win a Grand Tour

there does seem to be some short memories on here, though I doubt DB and the other teams will forget the rest of the sky team going AWOL twice in the mountains and once on the flat.

I'm sure Froome's girlfriend will decide what he wants to happen for him.

Anyone else think it's completely pointless having Porte as number 2 for the TDF ? He's proven this year (and last) that he doesn't have what it takes to win a Grand Tour, so having him as backup in case of a problem with Froome means the best you've got is a Top 10. Whether Wiggins can win it on this tour, this day, this time, we don't know.. but he has proven he can win a Tour at least.

Were we watching the same race last year?
One bad day and it wasn't even a bad day. It was a dodgy hour where he lost contact and then chased for 2-3 hours essentially alone without losing anymore time until realisation finally hit he wasn't going to get it back. After that he was essentially at the front all race then sitting up when not needed anymore as his GC was done on that bad day.

Bit unfair about this year as he's been out of sorts clearly and by that rational you'd have binned Froome for having a parsite wrecking his system twice!

That's not to say he will ever win a grand tour but he's never been given the opportunity yet when in full health.

Bit unfair about this year as he's been out of sorts clearly and by that rational you'd have binned Froome for having a parsite wrecking his system twice!

That's not to say he will ever win a grand tour but he's never been given the opportunity yet when in full health

But this year is when the Tour is, so being out of sort this year makes him therefore pointless as a number 2 ? I can totally see why you'd have him in the team, he's a bloody great rider... but I can't see why he's your alternate plan if it goes wrong for Froome.

If Porte's been out of sorts surely it's all the more reason to take Wiggo?

I hope all 3 of them are there as it'll be their strongest team and might encourage others like Nibali/Valverde to launch some crazy attacks which will make for better viewing. And as said above I think Sky would look pretty silly if Froome crashed out the first week and they had no genuine GC contender.

But this year is when the Tour is, so being out of sort this year makes him therefore pointless as a number 2 ? I can totally see why you'd have him in the team, he's a bloody great rider... but I can't see why he's your alternate plan if it goes wrong for Froome.

Oh yes I'd agree depending upon his current state. He could well be fine. Froome was in 2012 and he'd been ill for a lot of the year.

I don't think he or Wiggins would be the alternate plan to win the Tour. If Froome crashes out they aren't going to win this tour with either of them but they will at least save face with probable stage wins and a top 5 from one of them.

He's a better climber then Wiggins, so better able to support Froome through the mountains

Wiggo can tempo him/both up a climb and then leave froome/Porte to do the real work

He's a better climber then Wiggins, so better able to support Froome through the mountains

Wiggo can tempo him/both up a climb and then leave froome/Porte to do the real work

Wiggins has just been on 5 live and has confirmed that "as things stand" he will not be in this years tour.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/27729769

Is disappoint. 🙁

Real shame if he doesn't ride, Team Sky is running a business so have to go with what they think is their best line-up but surely an in form and fired-up Wiggo is an asset. I for one will be cheering for a different GC rider to the fake plastic Brit Froome!

slackalice - Member
ChunkyMTB - Member
ChunkyMTB - Member
Wiggo won't be on the Tour... trust me...
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Go on then Chunky, I'll bite the bait
Why would we trust you?

8)

See, you all should have trusted me 😡

I do 😛

"I am gutted. I've worked extremely hard for this throughout the winter and up to the summer. I feel I am in the form I was two years ago."
He added: "But I also understand that cycling is a team sport and it is all about Team Sky winning and Chris is defending champion."

Unwritten comment seems to be that Sky won't give him an equal footing to Froome and don't think he's a team player.

Houns - Member
I do
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I know you know that I know 8)

They'd be mad not to take Wiggins.

The pave can ensd a riders race in a flash, and Froome will not be good on it. One second, and he's out the race, what do they do? no sprinter, no team leader (Porte is a good rider, but not a true GC rider IMO). They have to take him.

Last thing they need is an emotionally brittle prima Donna who alienates his team mates and throws his toys out his pram (or his bike in a ditch) and sends adolescent flouncy texts to his DS when he gets dropped by a team mate.

Leaves him free to sandbag in second rate races beating espoirs, well worth the millions he's earned since his Tour win...

@crashtest - Wiggins has earnt good money sonce the TdF as he was the first Brit to win it and double up with a gold at the games, He was a national hero before based on his Olympic record.

I too am disappointed but not surprised. I will not be supporting Froome or Sky. IMO Sky are now very exposed to a crash/mechanical problem. My daughter has been heavily involved in the organisation of the grand depart and I will go up for it to show support for her but my enthusiasm is much reduced without Wiggins.

The pave can ensd a riders race in a flash, and Froome will not be good on it.

Please explain this. How will Froome not be good on the pave?

instead they went mr timid who hid in the bunch while sending his team to burn themselves out on the front with bertie powered off down the road.

...but my enthusiasm is much reduced without Wiggins.

The pave can ensd a riders race in a flash, and Froome will not be good on it.

Please explain this. How will Froome not be good on the pave?

He's never raced the serious Pave events.
Therefore he's unlikely to be at the sharp end.
He'll do ok but could easily lose a minute or 2 to more experienced riders.
Contador did similar a few years ago. Lost time to Schleck who go towed by Cancellara but gained time on Armstrong.

I reckon DBs thinking is one wet day in the mountains and Wiggo is down 5 minutes.

...but my enthusiasm is much reduced without Wiggins.

+1

I reckon Sky have dropped a major bollock here. Rightly or wrongly, the watching public is overwhelmingly on the side of Wiggins over Froome, and that will translate to less enthusiasm and support for team Sky, which surely won't be good from a marketing point of view which is the whole reason Sky is doing it. It's all very well talking about winning being the only consideration, but at the end of the day every sport needs its superstars. Can you imagine the furore if Messi or Ronaldo were left out of the World Cup for no other reason than internal team politics?

Just listened to the interview this morning (2h50m in on here http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04573wt)

He seems to be well prepared in what to say. A bit more level-headed than I've heard him before. They tried to draw frustration out of him, but it didn't show too much.
The changing teams thing is a weird one.

Personally, I think SKY have missed a massive trick leaving him off the team. Publicity is everything, and I think all the talk would have been about the internal rivalry and tension.

On another note, I can't believe I'm still having to watch bloody Valverde in another race ffs.

Can you imagine the furore if Messi or Ronaldo were left out of the World Cup for no other reason than internal team politics?

Do you remember Brazil being forced to play (the other) Ronaldo in the World Cup in 98? He was a mess and the whole drama contributed to their loss to France in the final.

...but my enthusiasm is much reduced without Wiggins.

Admittedly I'm not exactly a massive pro road cycling fan but I will be there at the Grand Depart and watch the Tour come last my house - another +1 from me.

Ronaldo wasn't at all fit to play though was he. I think if Wiggo was completely out of form no-one would be complaining.

I suspect that SKY couldn't really care. If Froome wins another tour then the decision will be justified. The British public are small fry when compared with the fans in the rest of Europe.

My tuppence worth - my enthusiasm is exactly the same whether he is in the team or not.

Please explain this. How will Froome not be good on the pave?

you need two things to ride pave well. the ability to mash a big gear and experience. Froome has neither (relatively speaking. I'm fully aware to could turn a bigger gear than all of us and is a better bike rider than all of us)

Get lost in the pack on the pave and it's only a matter of time before you're coming off.

PS, I predicted Wiggins would get a top 10 finish at Roubaix, so i have a 100% success rate in predicting the cobbles in 2014 🙂

I think if Wiggo was completely out of form no-one would be complaining.

Ronaldo wasn't at all fit to play though was he. I think if Wiggo was completely out of form no-one would be complaining.

True but I don't think the drama that came with him helped them in the slightest. An unfit Ronaldo wouldn't have been as bad as unfit on top of the distractions. Wiggins last year tried to undermine Froome's selection as the TdF team leader and certainly had a grudge after the 2012 race. I can't imagine that Froome is very keen on having someone "supporting him" who's done all that. If he's the chosen team leader, you have to commit rather than throwing a personality into the mix who is hardly working in harmony.

I have to admit that I find it odd that they didn't send Wiggins to the Giro when Porte was dropped from it. Although I guess with the big mountains and Quintana in the race they probably were conceding that Wiggins couldn't compete (not that I think Porte would have either)

Do you remember Brazil being forced to play (the other) Ronaldo in the World Cup in 98? He was a mess and the whole drama contributed to their loss to France in the final.

Aye but Ronaldo should have been omitted for health reasons as he had a seizure before the game in the dressing room. Wiggins appears to be somewhere near to the top of his form so leaving him out doesn't make any sense to the average punter, who will rightly conclude that the only reason Wiggins isn't riding is because Froome doesn't like him. I can imagine there'll be some interesting emails and phonecalls flying about between the marketing men and management at Sky right now.

I suspect that SKY couldn't really care. If Froome wins another tour then the decision will be justified. The British public are small fry when compared with the fans in the rest of Europe.

Despite all the fan fair of 'people going cycling post Olympics' we really aren't big fans of cycling here in the UK. Its football, cricket or chips.

Europes different etc- so I imagine SKY wouldn't lose sleep over Wiggins plus he got the Tour of California, you split your team/wins evenly.