[Closed] No Wiggo for the TdF ?

PR disaster? How so?

It was always going to be Froome leading the team and it would be worse to have the eternal speculation about their relationship while he's fighting for another win.

Well all that says is that they are both riding different warm-up events in advance of the tdf.

Which probably makes sense being as Wiggins has just finished the tour of California?

Why would it be a PR disaster if Wiggins didn't ride tdf? Froome has already said he'd prefer Porte as no2 I think and it seems a much better fit.

I think Wiggins will struggle to make it into the tdf squad for all sorts of reasons tbh

Not necessarily a bad thing for him to be racing a different warm up event. Will let the team see what each rider can to when pushing for the win rather than one rider riding in support.

I reckon a fair chunk of it will come down to whether Wiggo can accept the Froome is number 1 and that he'll need to ride in support. If he's lucky he might get a podium from it, he might not. If he can't convince Froome and DB that he can do that, he won't be in the team.

I'm sure Sir Dave cares more about winning the event than the PR of not picking Sir Moodypants.

If you can be sure of one thing, they'll pick the team with the strongest chance of winning. If that includes Wiggo, smashing, if not, tough. I'm sure Wiggo is well aware of that.

TBH, I'm not sure any other team would have Wiggo, he's a bit of an emotional handful.

Where does it say he won't ride the TdF?
Its not a major PR blunder, I don't understand - are you reading some entirely different article to me?

It's Sir Bradley for a reason. Froome is a worthy champion and TdF team leader but the general public, me included, want to see Wiggins riding in Yorkshire.

aP - seems pretty clear to me from the make up of the Dauphine / Tour of Switzerland teams which is the A and which is the B. Dauphine has always been Sky's TdF warmup / training event.

From people who are better connected in this world yes no Wiggins at Tour as he's more likely to hinder Froome winning which is the point of he race.
http://thecyclingpodcast.com/

I'm hoping that Murdoch pulls rank as he likes controversy as it sells papers etc. I recall him enjoying the atmosphere on Alpe Dhuez in the team car even though there was massive amounts of anit doping ranting supporters hurling abuse at them. Brailsford etc where thinking he was going to pull the plug on the team because of it.

It would be a shame but Froome is clearly the better tour prospect.
No room for passengers...

I think we can pretty much take it for granted that he won't be going back to Garmin....

Another yellow jersey is more important to SKY than 3 days of Wiggins worship.

Starting to look like he won't be riding. Agree it is a shame, but not sure pr should come into it. Sky putting out the best team is all that matters.

It's Sir Bradley for a reason. Froome is a worthy champion and TdF team leader but the general public, me included, want to see Wiggins riding in Yorkshire.

Really? I don't care much if he rides or not. You can't honestly expect a pro cycling team to make a decision based on what Sun readers probably think?

@tom, yup Murdoch is pretty thick skinned and bad publicity is better than none in his book. Thanks for the link.

@suburb, I admit I haven't looked at the course but last year clearly favoured Froome vs Wiggins, not sure about this year and in the event of an injury/accident Wiggins would have the experience to push for the GC.

It's Sir Bradley for a reason. Froome is a worthy champion and TdF team leader but the general public, me included, want to see Wiggins riding in Yorkshire.

But it's about winning, not about having Wiggins ride around then mooch off in a mood when the race gets to France and thereby damage the team's chances.

Wiggo might find himself stuck between a rock and a hard place. Froome will be the Sky team leader. If Wiggo wants to be then he will have to find another team that will pay him whatever he expects / will accept and has a stong enough squad of domestics to make it happen. There arent that many teams in that position and they could well be happy with thier current leaders.

@Duggan, Sky is a TV company, its Sun readers the sponsor cares about.

It's just the way they've presented the headline. They could have gone with "Froome prepares by riding Dauphine, Wiggins heads Tour of Switzerland challenge"

But instead they've chosen, as usual, to focus on what in this case is a very speculative leap of logic to say "they had a falling out and won't ride the same event".

The media making a story out of nothing again.

I'd rather someone win it attacking in the mountains than on a time trial.

Maybe Alonso's new team would have him as a domestique de luxe/TT expert and let him focus on the classics etc until he retires. That said, given his stated goal for 2016 is the Olympics, who'd put so much money into a Wiggins project for basically a year of riding.

@atlaz - I cannot see Wiggo mooching off ? I think the fact is Froome knows Wiggo will be ahead of him in the GC before the mountain stages and that spooks him. Much was made of Froome being called back in 2012 on the climb but Froome nearly blew up in 2013 and had to be rescued by Porte.

EDIT: re your 2016 comment, yes that's a very powerful argument

I seriously doubt that the media side of the corporation has any influence on the pro bike team though?

Sounds like the stuff of conspiracy theorists or something.

Last I'd seen was he was unlikely to ride the Tdf this year, has not been offered a new contract for next year and is being courted by Matt White to join OGE.

Yeap, Team Sky are here/there to compete. Not to provide Wiggistas with an honourary few stages of the UK depart.

If Wiggins is there, it should be on merit and I think even he would want it that way.

Edit:
I met him on the Champs Elysees, at the end of the 2012 TdF. He was at least generous enough to coast over to the crowds and say "hi".

I think we can pretty much take it for granted that he won't be going back to Garmin....

There is a story he'd like to go back to Garmin. Can't remember where but could have been the podcast again.

Having Wiggins there and potentially being minutes up on Froome after the cobbles would be hilarious for the rest of the Tour. Well at least until Froome destroys him on the first BIG mountain.

Given how pissed off Vaughters (and even David Millar) were when he waltzed off to Sky, I doubt they'd be too happy to have him back, particularly with the surprising form of Ryder Hesjedal at the Giro giving them their GC guy back again. Then again, show-business not show-friends so maybe they think he's the right guy.

jambalaya - Member

@atlaz - I cannot see Wiggo mooching off ?

Did you not see him flounce his way round the Giro last year when things were going wrong?

I think the fact is Froome knows Wiggo will be ahead of him in the GC before the mountain stages and that spooks him.

How ridiculous. Solo attacks or something?

Much was made of Froome being called back in 2012 on the climb but Froome nearly blew up in 2013 and had to be rescued by [s]Porte.[/s] a gel

FTFY.

Seems to me that Wiggins has shown good form this year. Good performances in the classics and won the Tour of California. Regardless of the name he should be there on merit.

I think Froome is just as bad as Wiggins when it comes to tantrums to be fair and he certainly has a bigger ego than Wiggins!

I suspect given Wiggo's form and Froome's injuries whoever comes out best from the Dauphine / Switzerland will be booking their place at the TDF e.g.

If Froome goes well/wins the Dauphine then chances are Wiggo won't ride as Froome's not keen on Wiggo.

If Froome under-performs and Wiggo does well and proves to be a threat in the Swiss mountains then Wiggo most likely goes whether Froome likes it or not.

If Froome performs ok at the Dauphine and Wiggo performs well in the TT's and looks good for the flat stages then Wiggo should go as a helper but that depends upon how much Brailsford/Sky want to be regarded as a British team.

geordiepaul - Member

Seems to me that Wiggins has shown good form this year. Good performances in the classics and won the Tour of California. Regardless of the name he should be there on merit.

Not if it's a less harmonious team.

I think Froome is just as bad as Wiggins when it comes to tantrums to be fair and he certainly has a bigger ego than Wiggins!

Froome tantrums? Such as? As for your last point 😆

If Sky didn't have anyone decent to support Froome then Wiggo would be a necessity regardless of the emnity between them (and that does exist even if the media like to hype it up further). Sky do have other decent riders - eg Porte - so they don't need Wiggo and the discord that's likely with him. Besides, Wiggo isn't really a domestique, super or not. Froome was perfect for Wiggo because he was strong in the mountains where Wiggo was (very slightly) less strong. For Froome, he needs more pure climbers as Wiggo isn't going to be helping him in the TT.

I do think it would be good tactically to have Wiggins there as the rest will have to contend with who to watch between Froome, Wiggins and Porte.

Yeah, that's a fair point but then you end up with the Lance/Contador scenario where they're scoring points off eachother. Works ok if it turns out that Froome is comfortably stronger than Wiggo (which I think overall he is, so long as it's not a massively TT-focussed course) but less so otherwise.

I think it's a good call to send the top two (chosen) riders off to different events..
Both will come back not really knowing the reletive performance of either other than recent wins.

Seems like a good stratagy

Wiggo won't be on the Tour... trust me... 😆

How ridiculous. Solo attacks or something?

Peter Kennaugh is riding the Tour de Suisse, and I would expect him to be a consideration for the TdF (he was excellent last year).

Did you not see him flounce his way round the Giro last year when things were going wrong?

How ridiculous. Solo attacks or something?

Timetrials (EDIT: Just seen post above, I didn't realise there where no TT before the mountains)

I started the thread as I'm genuinely interested and am not particularly knowledgeable about the road riding, interesting points made here.

I'd be excited to watch Wiggo in the tour.
Couldn't really give a monkey's about Frome - I'll probably be routing for an underdog instead.

as we're all talking about this, then I guess the SKY team's plan is working.
they're just stoking the fire.

@Alex - that's my view too (Froome). I have always been torn as I cannot bear Murdoch and what he represents, without Wiggo (and Cavendish) I am would rather see another team win.

jambalaya - Member

Timetrials

There's only one time trial and it's the stage before Paris.

I think tantrums aside, the team would be much, much stronger WITH Wiggins than without him. If he's up for it, would there be a better high-speed diesel for Froome and Porte to sit behind as cover?

Froome is much the same as Wiggo in terms of basically being a nob, he just hides behind his missus on twitter!! And Frome has a loooong way to go before he's as successful a cyclist as Wiggo. And that's why the British public love him.

I'd like to see Wiggo ride the TDF but understand the teams perspective, it's about winning at all cost's.

Where's this strange assumption that Froome will somehow loose hours on the cobbles coming from? His only comments were about that cobbles throw up random punctures/crashes at times which will make it tough. If you can find a single rider who would disagree then I'll be shocked.

I'd like to see Wiggo ride the TDF but understand the teams perspective, it's about winning at all cost's.

Would wiggo really ride for Froome ?
I doubt it but he would be a good engine for the team if he would

I would have thought it prudent to send the 2 of them, especially with the opening week dramas that seem to occur before the field gets spread out.

It seems every GT has a few big names suffer crash injuries in the first week and bringing a couple of contenders would proof the team against that to an extent.

wiggo: exciting character, boring rider
froome: exciting rider, boring character

Maybe they could do a job share where Froome rides and Wiggo does his press interviews?

Shame... I doubt anyone based upon these replies actually gives a toss if Froome even turns up for the event, let alone whether he wins it.

Froome is an exciting rider only in relation to Wiggins, in that he'll actually attack rather than just riding tempo.

I'm amazed at the blind optimism of some of the posters on this thread, suggesting that Wiggins riding in the TdF would be a threat to Froome, as he could beat him. The plan all along has been that, IF Wiggins rode le Tour it would be in support of Froome.

If you're planning on winning the TdF the preparation and training for that starts at least a year out. You really can't decide you're going to win it and start your preparations four weeks out from the start.

As for PR / commercial blunders, I think it's a bit more grey than some are suggesting. Let's not forget that cycling, like most sports, is a business, and an expensive one at that (at the upper echelons). All that Team Sky stuff we've marvelled at, the incremental gains, the sports science, the advanced training regimes, let alone the infrastructure supporting it, costs, and costs big. Sponsors stumping up for that don't, generally, do it because they're fans, they're making a business decision.

The idea that all decisions will always be made for purely sporting reasons is therefore a little naïve, but obviously it can be a balancing act. Will not having the hero of 2012 riding out at the UK start be a blow, disappoint people, perhaps reduce the public enthusiasm a bit overall and therefore potentially be something that the paymasters at News International would rather wasn't the case? Quite possibly.

BUT, if it is a choice between winning the TdF without Wiggins or losing it with him, would they rather have the win than the sideburns? Undoubtedly.

To illustrate with reference to a sport where the brand power of individual sportsmen is further along the road, does anyone think that the amount of money LA Galaxy paid David Beckham was wholly, or even mostly, because of what they expected him to do on the pitch? Wiggins is, in this country, cycling's David Beckham, with all the commercial draw that that implies, and it can't be ignored.

EDIT: Personally, I'm more disappointed that Nairo Quintana's not riding, I'd have enjoyed seeing him tackle Holme Moss.

edlong - Member

EDIT: Personally, I'm more disappointed that Nairo Quintana's not riding, I'd have enjoyed seeing him tackle Holme Moss.

+1!

Bloody Valverde. But Quintana in the Giro was brilliant, and the Movistar team supporting him looked pretty formidable.

Maybe they could do a job share where Froome rides and Wiggo does his press interviews?

GENIUS 😆

if it is a choice between winning the TdF without Wiggins or losing it with him

Can they not win it with both of them though?

Anyway forget Froome and Wiggins. It's all about Cav in Harrogate for me. If he wins that stage i'll be happy! 😀

The idea that all decisions will always be made for purely sporting reasons is therefore a little naïve, but obviously it can be a balancing act. Will not having the hero of 2012 riding out at the UK start be a blow, disappoint people, perhaps reduce the public enthusiasm a bit overall and therefore potentially be something that the paymasters at News International would rather wasn't the case? Quite possibly.

And that's only taking into account the UK market - given the international coverage of the TdF it seems pretty clear to me that a winner is far more important than any single rider.

[quote=weeksy ]Shame... I doubt anyone based upon these replies actually gives a toss if Froome even turns up for the event, let alone whether he wins it.

I disagree. I think most people want to see an exciting rider and the best racing for the GC should be about mountains not a couple of TTs. Froome excels at the former and is no slouch at the latter either. I'd rather see him race than Wiggins.

Two TDF's for Froome and that'd royally piss on Wiggins chips wouldn't it? 😆

I don't personally see Froome as an exciting rider in all honesty, I'd rather see Nibali, Quintana, Valverde etc going up a mountain than Froome, not sure why but as a rider he just really irritates me, I don't find watching him even remotely enjoyable.

As a person/character I find him even less so.

How funny would this scenario be though:

Sky let Wiggins take time on the cobbles to control the jersey whilst taking the heat of Froome knowing that Froome is stronger in the mountains but Wiggins is Froomes last man who then hangs on to limit his losses and absolutely nails the 54km time trial on the penultimate stage to take the lead by a couple of seconds. Would sky rider race sky rider on the final stage?

Its maybe a fantasy, but it would be great fun to watch.

[i]If you're planning on winning the TdF the preparation and training for that starts at least a year out. You really can't decide you're going to win it and start your preparations four weeks out from the start.[/i]

+1 I thought the teams spent months upon months building upto the tour and tailoring their whole years training around the goal of peaking for the TdF? Dont the riders have some magic number they aim for, something to do with power output and weight?

I was always under the impression this years tour played more to Froomes strentghs rather than Wiggins, what with its lack of TT's. Having said that, Froome is no slouch in the TT either.

[i]Not if it's a less harmonious team[/i]

One of the many famous Sir Dave-isms is that team harmony is not important; goal harmony is.

If Wiggo rides the tour it'll be in support of Froome; that's a given. He'll only be picked if he accepts that that's his job wihin the team (and he's good enough, obviously)

not sure why but as a rider he just really irritates me, I don't find watching him even remotely enjoyable.

no pleasing some.

IMHO he is just bland and moody and IMHO cuddles does that so much better than he ever could

god you wait a hundred years for a tour winner then 2 come at once

And that's only taking into account the UK market - given the international coverage of the TdF it seems pretty clear to me that a winner is far more important than any single rider.

On that specific point, I dunno how Sky / News international would look at it. Team Sky is pretty much presented a lot of the time as being the commercial / professional bike racing arm of Team GB. From what I understand (two minutes on google so apologies if I've got this wrong) the "Sky" brand is only used in UK and Ireland..

How funny would this scenario be though:

Sky let Wiggins take time on the cobbles to control the jersey whilst taking the heat of Froome knowing that Froome is stronger in the mountains but Wiggins is Froomes last man who then hangs on to limit his losses and absolutely nails the 54km time trial on the penultimate stage to take the lead by a couple of seconds. Would sky rider race sky rider on the final stage?

Its maybe a fantasy, but it would be great fun to watch.

the "Sky" brand is only used in UK and Ireland..

and italy. The secondary sponsor is Twentieth Century Fox which is why the tour of California was important

I don't personally see Froome as an exciting rider in all honesty

You may not like his style on the bike but his actual performances are very impressive. Recall Ventoux?

I find it hard to believe that Wiggans isn't 'good enough' to make the team. There's Froome and Porte, so that leaves 7 others. Are you saying there are 7 Sky riders better than Wiggans? If so, name them. If not, he's in.

Unless Froome doesn't want him in... but is it up to him?

and italy. The secondary sponsor is Twentieth Century Fox which is why the tour of California was important

Indeed, hence why Valentino Rossis team is sponsored by Sky.

If Wiggo rides the tour it'll be in support of Froome; that's a given. He'll only be picked if he accepts that that's his job wihin the team (and he's good enough, obviously)

True, but assuming he gets picked Wiggins wouldn't be the first rider on a short contract to go rogue mid race.

I stand corrected, thanks all. The Fox sponsorship certainly makes more sense from a global business POV.

find it hard to believe that Wiggans isn't 'good enough' to make the team. There's Froome and Porte, so that leaves 7 others. Are you saying there are 7 Sky riders better than Wiggans? If so, name them. If not, he's in.

Unless Froome doesn't want him in... but is it up to him

Whilst he may be a better/faster rider, that only applies if he's actually performing the task he's been asked to do ? If he's not supporting him by riding at the front up a particular mountain because he's decided he's too good for that, then he's not better at all than the lower riders in the team. At least you know when you ask one of them to put in a 5km stint up a mountain they'll destroy themselves in the process to do it...

I'm not convinced Wiggins would

IMHO he is just bland and moody

Not the first time that's been said in this thread. Bland I can go with as he's like 70% of professional sportsmen; nothing interesting to say beyond their sport and frequently including their sport. Moody though, I've not seen much evidence of.

Team Sky is pretty much presented a lot of the time as being the commercial / professional bike racing arm of Team GB

In the UK maybe, here in Spain I've never noticed the commentators mention it.

He'll never go rogue, what's the point? Turn up the day after and hey presto, there's no bike for him.

At least you know when you ask one of them to put in a 5km stint up a mountain they'll destroy themselves in the process to do it...

I'm not convinced Wiggins would

Not up a mountain I'll grant you but when was the last (only?) time you've seen a yellow jersey rider lead out their sprinter going in to the final stage. I guess it makes a difference if you like the fella you're risking it for though.

If Wiggo does well in ToS then he is in

If he flounces out, he is out

I find it hard to believe that Wiggans isn't 'good enough' to make the team. There's Froome and Porte, so that leaves 7 others. Are you saying there are 7 Sky riders better than Wiggans? If so, name them. If not, he's in.

He needs to be 'good enough' for which ever roll Sky want him to play, which you would expect to be super domestique, next to Porte. If he can't play nice with his team mates, cant go downhill in the rain fast enough to keep up or abandons due to sulking then they're better to use someone else.

I reckon he probably really does want to race and would play along, hopefully having got all the shit out of his system, but it would be a big risk.

ChunkyMTB - Member
Wiggo won't be on the Tour... trust me...
POSTED 1 HOUR AGO #

Not up a mountain I'll grant you but when was the last (only?) time you've seen a yellow jersey rider lead out their sprinter going in to the final stage. I guess it makes a difference if you like the fella you're risking it for though

I think in simple terms when he was doing that he was quite simply enjoying the moment and glory (whilst doing the job for the team of course).. but I don't think that was down to a sense of him doing it out of duty. The team won plenty of stages that year without him in the leadout, they'd still have won it that day (probably)

his manager who is his partners tweets [ him basically IMHO], racing off on the climb,, autobiography moaning about that climb that tour and Wiggo in general...now I type it he might just hate Wiggo to be fair,