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i like it and use it a lot. i especially enjoy opening it on my desktop and planning routes using heatmap while looking at the recent rides of the fastest locals, so you dont end up down some obsolete overgrown or decrepit trial. im also nosey and like to see where the good local riders are going, and if they have found something new to me. thirdly its brilliant to see people riding trails ive dug myself! i also like the social side of it, because we all have the same common interest, no bullshit.
erictwinge, how do I use the heatmap in routeplanner?
Still can't see any change to browser version or Android version
I am doing 500 miles and 30/ish hours per month in the saddle, paying £4.49/mo through Google Play (wonder if they will increase this?) and have been doing so since 2014. Personally, I reckon that a penny a mile, or 15p/hr isn't bad value just to have the rides logged, shared and a few statistics and bits here and there to show whether I'm improving or not.
To be fair, I don't think Strava is perfect - their development has been glacially slow and I'm still annoyed that they don't offer any form of family membership or something to support U16 riders like Zwift now do. Also, the detailed analytics on Strava remain rubbish, hence another tenner a year pushed at Veloviewer.
I work in the telematics industry and have some idea of what it takes to run the infrastructure behind a global platform like Strava. My only wonder is how they managed to keep it free, without advertising or other sources of income, for so long. This stuff ain't cheap to run!
They had my fiver a month before, they'll probably keep getting it after until and unless something better comes along.
Just thinking about this.
I use Strava as a ride data aggregator and leave actual analysis to specific programs or websites. Some of those websites charge, monthly or annually. Strava could act in the way that Apple do with their app store: leave the free apps/3rd party sites alone but take 30% of the cost of those that charge, in return they get a more advanced/open API and greater data rates.
The one thing I would love to see has been intimated above - make challenges not reliant on rides being public. Then make every ride for everyone private unless they expressly elect to make that specific ride public. It would make the social media feed aspect of it a load less tedious and I could re-friend a bunch of people I've stopped following for spamming me with the dull daily rides to work and back. They could even add an algorithm that nudged you to publish it if it looks particularly out of the ordinary for you.
Trailforks app can track the ride directly, so doesn't need Strava. You can manually upload a ride from a GPS device (Add Ridelog in Trailforks desktop site), but will need to go to Trailforks and then browse for the recorded file (probably needs transferred to a computer) and then upload it - so it isn't automatic, but it can be done.
If Veloviewer had a Garmin Connect API then I'd just drop Strava.
Went for a run this morning and no changes as yet to what I see as ‘free’ user. For instance I can see all previous times for segments I covered and comparable routes - I thought these were going to be removed?
I think its hilarious how you can still use it for free with not much change for a lot of people yet 50% of the responses are 'right I'm closing my account'. You know you don't have to pay right?!
A strange world I've never entered. This eases my FOMO.
If Veloviewer had a Garmin Connect API then I’d just drop Strava.
Me too, not going to happen though apparently.
Thinking about it, Strava may have just done me a favour. I think it probably ruins more rides for me than anything else.
Often I'll go out, really enjoy my ride, get home, check Strava and then be disappointed because my time on some segment I didn't even know existed isn't very good. Bloody stupid. Even worse, next time I do that ride I'll push it on that segment just to improve a pointless number and often enjoy it less. I only stick with Strava because I really enjoy the explore features in VV and that only works if you use Strava. If I can't see my position on a leaderboard it may actually make it easier for me to just go out and enjoy myself.
I record all my rides on my wahoo app on my phone. It gives me the minimal analysis I need, and the only thing I really keep Strava for is the garage feature - this allows me to track my approximate milage on each of my bikes and make informed decisions about how long certain components are lasting. If wahoo had that, or there was a 3rd part app that spoke to wahoo that did the same thing, I'd drop Strava as the social functions don't float my boat.
I'll be paying initially, but longer term it all depends on whether all my mates continue to use it as well. The beauty of strava is everyone uses it. If folks stop using it then it becomes pointless. I have no interest in how I stack up against a load of randoms who may be pros, on ebikes, or just far fitter/unfitter than me. I do have a passing interest in how i get on conpared to those i ride with or compete againt in real life.
I came across this analysis of Strava users. http://markslavonia.com/sampling-strava/ It's five years old and Strava had 8.2m users at that point in time. He estimates that around 2.3% of users are subscribers. There's this quote:
Why does this matter? Many of us are passionate about Strava and want it to be sustainable. The company raised $18.5 million in October 2014 and is not yet profitable. This analysis suggests that Strava’s revenue from premium memberships is around $11.5 million per year. Besides, Strava’s free service is pretty great – the company hasn’t started pushing hard on existing users to switch to premium. If it can eventually convert many of its growing number of active users to paying customers, it stands a good chance of keeping its product free from intrusive advertising and clutter.
Let's extrapolate that to the present. According to Strava's blog in Feb 2020 they had 50 million users and were adding 1 million per month (that's remarkable growth). Their current annual subscription is £48.00 so assuming the same percentage of subscribers:
48 * 50,000,000 * 0.023 = £55.2m/pa
Out of that comes the salaries for 180 staff and the hosting costs.
Every million new users will add around £1.1m to the revenue, conversely, lose a million and their revenue drops the same.
I’ll be paying initially, but longer term it all depends on whether all my mates continue to use it as well. The beauty of strava is everyone uses it. If folks stop using it then it becomes pointless. I have no interest in how I stack up against a load of randoms who may be pros, on ebikes, or just far fitter/unfitter than me. I do have a passing interest in how i get on conpared to those i ride with or compete againt in real life.
Along these lines Strava is great for looking at your races - segments and the flyby can completely break it down and give you a lot of insight. There is actually no other way of doing this, as far as seeing how you shaped up against your competitors, thinking about it. Of course this completely depends on other people using it like you say, which they mainly do IME, but this could change. I think I read somewhere that they flyby would be unchanged, but that still doesn't mean much if the userbase substantially shrinks.
I think a big part of segments getting a bit old and uninteresting is that most of us have probably lived in the same place for a while so know all of the trails and routes. I certainly don't pay them much heed nowadays, but if I moved tomorrow I reckon they'd be a big part of exploring the new area.
48 * 50,000,000 * 0.023 = £55.2m/pa
Out of that comes the salaries for 180 staff and the hosting costs.
Hosting costs Oh how I hate that term. Go to AWS or Azure Pricing Calculators and assuming you know what you're doing price up a suitable platform to handle the millions of transactions of those millions of users, and the storage and data platform costs and global burst scaling you need to cope with demand peaks. Oh and don't forget the associated globally redundant backup costs, and the farming out of analytics data to a suitable SIEM so you can ensure you're as secure as you can be. Then don't forget to factor in all of the millions of API transactions the free partner apps are making too. See how much of your Millions that soaks up.
Still can’t see any change to browser version or Android version
The GCN show interviewed Strava CEO in yesterdays program and he said it the changes are being applied over next few weeks.
Not sure if that is to see how many people start subscribing before the features are removed from free side of the app?
I don't doubt it - I saw recently that Amazon make more from AWS than their web shop.
I still have a subscription for the summit set up on the site and that's not been cancelled. Yet I couldn't see followers leaderboards earlier.
So basically I'm paying for the analytics (which are pointless but I felt obliged to contribute something) which apparently they are getting rid of.
I've been paying £3.99 a month for a couple of years. I can't recall exactly why I subscribed, there was a feature I wanted. I dunno. Anyway, it's not much really.
@tpbiker Can't see "following" on Android app for Zwift segments, but works for outdoor rides, including a new segment I created this morning.
I have the Summit Analysis pack.
Out of that comes the salaries for 180 staff and the hosting costs.
This is the most simplistic business accounting I've ever seen.....offices, staff related expenses, taxes, marketing and advertising costs, new product development etc. etc.
The company raised $18.5 million in October 2014 and is not yet profitable.
By "raised" they mean: Have borrowed from equality finance/investment start-up companies. Who will want a return on their money at some point
As an aside, has anyone noticed a much reduced number of segments on their routes today?
30km exploring new trails in the sun was good enough for me, certainly wasn't chasing segments, but was surprised to only see 8 come up. I usually enjoy scrolling through and seeing what others have deemed segment worthy...
Well, I’ve subscribed. I use it every ride and I’m tired of moochin’ 😂
I think it probably ruins more rides for me than anything else.
Often I’ll go out, really enjoy my ride, get home, check Strava and then be disappointed because my time on some segment I didn’t even know existed isn’t very good.
That's not really Strava's fault.
Anyway, why do they have 180 staff?
That’s not really Strava’s fault.
Yup, but why let the truth get in the way of a flounce? 🙄
VeloViewer still seems to be pulling down segment placings for me even though everything I have read implies that should have stopped by now as a free user?
EDIT - ok I see that the Today and This Year leaderboards have gone since yesterday which is something I looked at after a ride to get an occasional ego boost. I guess the API will follow shortly. I understand they want/need to make money but at this particular time people are less likely to be committing to monthly subs.
I've been a subscriber for quite a few years and am happy to pay for software I use frequently, so the charging changes don't affect me. However, I am concerned that the 'Improvements' they introduce are actually going to be to the detriment of users and 3rd party plug-ins.
At some point today they have changed the Routing options on the web page, so that now the integration with Veloviewer has gone - can't show Explorer Tiles or personal heatmaps anymore. Oh, and the basemap is hideous, really difficult to see normal roads and byways/bridleways are often missing altogether. Hopefully they will fix some of the issues and offer a choice of basemaps, but on today's evidence I can see me using Komoot more at least for route planning...
I've got the new routes thing now, going to have a play - looks a lot better than the old one.
Having had a bit more of a play with it, it's not as bad as I feared and does seem to do a reasonable job of routing. I just miss the Map Integration with Veloviewer which hopefully will be sorted at some point, plus it would be nice if there was a bit more colour (seems like they are stuck with a white/grey/green/blue palette) in the map so you could at least easily see what grade road it's putting you along.
VeloViewer seem to be one of Stravas preferred 3rd parties as they were in the minority that were told of the changes in advance (according to DC Rainmaker). Also VV posted a non judgemental blog/tweet of the changes which Strava retweeted. So you would hope they have the ear to get that fixed.
My quick play with routes (as I have now started a trial), confirmed Plotaroute is way better mainly for using OSM Cycle maps. Strava routing seemed of no use for anything offroad.
That’s not really Strava’s fault.
Why do people do that: selectively quote just so they can make a negative comment? The very next line makes it clear that the fault is all mine, so why just take the first bit so that you can make a point that I’ve just made? I don’t get it.
Still apparently it qualifies as a flounce, so that’s a bonus 🙂
Ok, so I went to do a stalking session on Strava and checked out one of the segments I'd ridden through the other day to see who else had been there today. The filtering by 'Today' option is no longer there. So I only have one more stalking option left and that's FlyBys. However, that has severely hampered my stalking capabilities now.
Speaking of stalking, if Strava introduced a dating option to their site that could be a great feature. It'd be local, it'd find people who like to do the same sport as each other. So you could check a box to opt into dating, select your wants from a few options and then your phone or Garmin goes apeshit whenever a like minded soul is in the vicinity. I think a few people would pay for that. It'd be better than SportingSingles in my opinion.
I used the stalk function to reunite some surprised punter with a bit of kit he'd dropped on my local hill so it's a shame it's no longer there. Not sure the frisson I get from trying to be the fastest time of the year on a couple of meaningless segments is going to persuade me to open my wallet.
Top 10 or bust 😉
From a mate..
So strava update... I have got some PR’a today which should have moved me up on the leaderboard (in the top 10) but it seems to be ignoring them even though they are faster than my previous times. So it may be that although you can see the top 10 leaders, any top 10 times wont be recorded in the leaderboard unless you pay.
I'd forgotten I did once pay for Strava by accident for a full year (~2013ish IIRC) after forgetting to cancel the premium sub during a trial they gouged £80 odd quid and I basically found it useless at the time...
I seem to remember at one point they had some kind of tiered sub option where you could sort of pick bolt-ons and adjust your sub cost that way, but they seemed to drop that because it was a bit shit? or nobody bit?
But I'm still actually a bit fuzzy on what you pay now...
I thought I'd take a look and see how the cost/benefits stack up these days, but I'm buggered if I can work it out looking at the desktop site, there's a link to the "founders" open begging letter, there's a comparison list of features for free vs sub so I sort of have an idea what you get and right down the bottom it says "Free 60day trial then $5 a month* (if you pay annually)"...
Well firstly what is it in GBP? Because frankly I don't trust Yanks to do honest currency conversions.
And what is it if I choose to pay monthly? Because quite honestly I might not want to give them £80 effing quid again for a full twelve months access to all the useless bells and whistles...
People keep saying £1 a week, is that the actual price or just a guestimate?
@cookeaa it is £47.99 per year after the free 2 month trial. Probably less effort to find out than what you just spent getting worked up about not knowing.
So you could check a box to opt into dating
Straight to the point, I guess 🙂...
Strava is a great bit of kit I've really enjoyed using over the years. What I most like is that it just works. I do actually sadly, care about MTB segment leaderboards, but really only the top 10/koms that still work on the free version. Less bothered about road where I'm nowhere near. Otherwise it's just the "following" leaderboard I guess. But am I prepared to pay £4 a month for this?
I'd almost rather they'd made it completely subscription only to save me the decision.
I've just been looking through the changes. I reckon my biggest loss is the comparison with my own efforts - and that's not available in VeloViewer either. It can be done in Garmin Connect though so I reckon I'll be spending some time setting up new segments on there.
I thought I didn't use any of the new premium features, until I realised the training log has moved to the paywall. grr
I've just unearthed my Veloviewer account and TBH I'm more tempted to pay a tenner for a year of that than I am to pay for a Strava Sub, noting of course that some functions are disabled without a Strava Sub (I don't care about segment positions) it just presents all my ride data in more useful formats.
If I chip in for Veloviewer 'Pro' do Strava get a chunk of that "donation" for API access? do we know?
I'll happily give Veloviewer a tenner, but I'm not giving Strava £50,
While I'm currently a fan of 'Elevate' it seems like a smaller setup, the current Chrome extension chugs a bit on my notebook and I can see them having Strava access pulled where Veloviewer are on the currently approved list...
If I chip in for Veloviewer ‘Pro’ do Strava get a chunk of that “donation” for API access? do we know?
Not as far as I know, not seen anything from VV to suggest they do. TBH, I think it would make sense for Strava to have a multi-tiered API access: free and you get the basic stuff, pay per user and you get the full set.
Just noticed my matched runs have been suspended 🙁
I’m not giving Strava £50
It is £47.99 per year after the free 2 month trial.
I thought VV paid Strava for use of the API?
It's done. Can't even see recent efforts 🙁
Yep that's really ballsed it up. Pretty much useless unless you pay. I stopped my subscription when they stopped doing downhill live segments, really torn now whether or not to pay up. The only thing I thought I found useful before was the Today leaderboard as to be honest, flaky GPS results aside, that's the only thing that you could compare segment times on with any degree accuracy.
The only feature I really used was see how I was doing over the big segments I had created. Have a lot of 10 - 30 mile loops created as segments and could see how I was doing over the last 5 years. Can't see previous times anymore.
Will now just be used as a ride logging tool as all my rides from last 6 years are stored on Strava so will continue to store them just in case I subscribe in future or some features get put back onto free version.
Can't really expect too much for free and I would have been happy to see adverts on the free version as I don't take any notice of adverts on sites/apps
I'm torn, part of me thinks it will be nice to just ride my bike and the other part wants to know my times up hills and how I compare etc.....
Elevate seems pretty slow to pull info this morning, so it looks like Strava is not returning full data to them already. I'd be pretty pissed off if I'd been encouraged to develop an app extension that integrated with Strava, and then it got shut down without any notice. Why should anyone work with them to add functionality for their users in future?
First ride last night without Strava ‘full’ no ability to benchmark against my mates etc. I’d happily pay but don’t value it enough to pay what they are asking and I am someone who uses Strava religiously. Perhaps if they had offered different tiers of membership rather than the full fat version. I am someone that is always happy to subscribe, but I won’t be paying what their asking. I remember riding pre Strava was just as much fun!
I reckon my biggest loss is the comparison with my own efforts
Aye, probably about the most relevant metric on there, everyone else numbers are immaterial.
They did offer tiered structure with differing price points, it now seems to be free with limited info from the data you provide or paid for and get everything. My renewal is due to Tuesday next week and the annual price is £19...unsure how it has come to that, but I'm not complaining.
I'm still unclear what the price actually is as I can't find prices (suspect I don't need to though as I'm logged in) - my account only gives me the option to downgrade to the free membership - I know I'm getting a bargain price, but unsure why (and if it will stay like that).
I see that the guy behind Elevate is trying to get away from Strava after the way they pulled the plug on Relive anyway.
You can still see all your previous times from attempts at a segment under the 'your results' button.
The new restrictions are bad though, can't see me paying a five a month for it. Especially with no down hill live segments
You can still see all your previous times from attempts at a segment under the ‘your results’ button.
Can you, I can't.
I signed up yesterday.
The way I'm looking at it is that since I started using it on every activity in about 2013/14 I've logged over 500 runs and 1500 rides. For each one of those I've got my phone out, pressed record, often thought about segments or my own pace or performance during those runs/rides, finished the activity and then usualy spend about 10 minutes looking at my route, segment times or pace, then scroll through the feed to see what my friends have been up to, give kudos where justified, maybe comment /chat on the ride.
All in I reckon I've recorded over 3500 hours of activity and spent 250+ hours post ride analysis and route planning, and it has cost me £0.
I'm now happy to pay for a couple of years and see what happens with it. If it turns in to crap I will still have had very good value from it.
You can still see all your previous times from attempts at a segment under the ‘your results’ button.
Can you? This is what I'm getting.
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Logged my commute this morning and a cant see my previous efforts or my following leaderboard which are the two I would look at .
ten weeks ago I probably would of paid up but I’m not sure how long I’m going to have a job at the moment so Strava will have to wait .
Your Results has gone for the free users. Not available in Veloviewer either.
I'll be setting up a couple of Segments on Garmin Connect instead as there are two climbs in particular I like to test myself on.
slight digression but last night i rode with a mate and we set off down a descent, when i got to the bottom he was a good 10 or 15 seconds after me - strava tells us he was 2 seconds faster!!
this pisses me off from a service i pay for.
this pisses me off from a service i pay for.
But isn't really a strava thing. One, other or both of you has crap hardware.
This has given me the final push I think I needed to bin it off. (have been paying fro it since 2014. (I wasn't bothered by the extra stuff you got as a subscriber, I just prefer to support stuff I like using) . Realised I was always riding with half a mind on Strava times, which made me think about why I actually ride.
Mid ride yesterday another rider's holding a gate open for me, and says "Now your time will be a bit quicker" which made me realise just how ubiquitous Strava has become in our world.
Might go back, but for the time being It's nice to step off the treadmill a bit. (which is what it felt like it had become)
It feels weird now, I'll have to see how it goes.
Difficult to judge how annoying it is because I primarily use the segment times for MTB descents, and I'm not going full gas on those at the moment for obvious reasons.
Can you? This is what I’m getting.
ah balls, now its gone. The other functionality was removed last night but the "your results"was still working fine (IN the android app, I dont use the web) , but I've just checked again and now the "your results" has gone too.
So, that made strava pretty much useless now. Cant see me using it from now on.
I first noticed that I couldn’t see the flybys on my comp a week or two back and then wondered what had happened to my app over the past week after my mtb rides. This thread has cleared that up.
For me it’s a shame as I liked to compare my times on certain segments with myself and my pals over the past few years. But to pay the same amount as I pay to watch Netflix (for example) just doesn’t give me value. It’s just not that important.
Disappointing, but I’ll probably go back to timing a ride ( when I’m on a mission) rather than worrying about short segments here and there along the way.
By making any sort of segment time comparisons unavailable, it automatically makes them less interesting to everybody, including most of those who are paying. People will use Strava as just a basic ride distance/speed/elevation logger, so the small number of 'premium' riders will be the only ones specifically putting in an effort on a particular segment, so they'll just be engaging with a significantly smaller pool of motivated riders, particularly when it comes to the 'this year' metric.
Be interesting to see if accidents decrease - I only really make a maximum effort down a hill if I think I’ve got a chance of improving my segment time, so removing that metric will make my rides a bit safer.
I’m not paying more for Strava than I do for Netflix!
I’m not paying more for Strava than I do for Netflix
Easy, up your netflix account!.
Mrs Nobeer has just subscribed too, sorted, she uses lots of the training stuff that ain't now free.
I only really make a maximum effort down a hill if I think I’ve got a chance of improving my segment time, so removing that metric will make my rides a bit safer.
That's quite bizarre.
I’m still undecided about paying but I’d quite like to download all my previous activities in any event, either because I choose to leave or because they might go bust and I lose it all. Over the last couple of years I’ve done a lot of stuff with my eldest (now 16). He’s not quite so interested anymore so I’d like to get the activities, routes, photos etc into a format I could use for photo montages, photo books etc.
Can anybody post up a link to an easy way to do this - there seems to be a lot of info out there but none of it is very concise...
Thanks!
By making any sort of segment time comparisons unavailable, it automatically makes them less interesting to everybody, including most of those who are paying.
Not sure I get your logic. The paid members still see them, all times, not just other paid members. What makes you think somebody will be less interested in a segment time because a free member cant see the times?
I run Strava from my phone that sits in my pack, I'm not going any quicker down a hill because there is a segment, I'm doing it because its bloody good fun.
Not sure I get your logic. The paid members still see them, all times, not just other paid members. What makes you think somebody will be less interested in a segment time because a free member cant see the times?
Basically cos if you're a free member and you can't see the times, you won't be aiming for them - that free member who might have been comparing his/her times, and generally pushing it a bit more will no longer do so. This devalues the segment. If you're really don't care about other people's times this isn't a problem, but if you want to see how you're doing relative to your age group or whatever it is.
Not sure I get your logic. The paid members still see them, all times, not just other paid members. What makes you think somebody will be less interested in a segment time because
The argument is that if fewer folk use Strava, the smaller the pool of riders you are comparing yourself to and hence the less Kudos you can give yourself.
The argument is that if fewer folk use Strava, the smaller the pool
Fair enough. I was referring more to the people who said they would keep using the free version.
Not sure why I am bothered, not like I am troubling the top half of the leaderboard very often
Not sure I get your logic. The paid members still see them, all times, not just other paid members. What makes you think somebody will be less interested in a segment time because a free member cant see the times?
Which would you value more, a good position on a fiercely contested segment with 1000s of riders or one with a few dozen?
If you take away the urge to compete on a particular segment for the vast majority of users (2% of Strava users are premium), then the resulting 'competition' is less valid, because the vast majority of users aren't trying that hard any more. This is obviously more of a factor in the 'This Year' comparison, and some people will be happy enough registering a time on the historic leaderboard back from when everybody was trying. But removing the week by week interest for nearly all those who previously were actively trying to compete devalues the leaderboard for paid-for members as well.
EDIT: Beaten to it by everyone. Obviously, as a non-member, I wasn't trying that hard anyway...
Also free members could make his activities private in retaliation! So they wouldn’t appear in the leaderboard, even for paying members...