[Closed] Niner files for bankruptcy

I'm not the brightest , why do they need to file for bankruptcy in order to sell the company and grow ? Why not just sell ?

Clear the debts and wipe the slate clean to make them vaguely attractive to buy?

I'm sure I'm under thinking it but doesn't that mean that someone, somewhere just gets handed the shitty end of the stick and doesn't get what they're owed?

I love my Niner but that does seem like a shitty move.

Wipe out your debts via bankruptcy so that someone else will give you more money.

I'm sure I'm under thinking it but doesn't that mean that someone, somewhere just gets handed the shitty end of the stick and doesn't get what they're owed?

Yeah pretty much. Company has X, owes Y - X gets divvied up amongst everyone it owes money too apportioned based on how much they’re owed. In the US though they have different rules which allow them to carry on afterwards.

It’s just ‘business’ if you lend a business money, either in cash or credit you take part of the risk. In the US it’s often used as a tool to do stuff like this. Trump is famous for maximising profit by shafting other companies in the same way.

Wipe out your debts via [s]bankruptcy[/s] reorganising your company and selling your assets so that someone else will give you more money.

Fixed that. If you google Chapter 11 bankruptcy you’ll see it doesn’t mean the same as “going bankrupt” over here

Essentially the secure creditor (the bank PNC) wants to be repaid for the $2.75m it had lent Niner and I assume it won't lend anymore to them, which has promoted them to enter Administration / Chapter 11 as they can't continue trading.

The sale needs to raise an amount that will be used to repay PNC in the first instance. If the sale price is not enough, I'll guess the bank will look to liquidate the Stock and assets as the source of repayment and Niner will effectively cease.

The creditors / manufacturers / suppliers will be the ones taking the hit as the money they are owed from Niner won't be paid, either if the sale is successful or if the business folds.

Even if the sale is successful, they are entering new markets with lots of established competition already, so it will remain tough.

Onzadog that's part of it yes.

Reading the article it's not clear why but it seems there are cash and/or liquidity issues although repayment of secured debt as noted above seems a likely / main factor.

Chapter 11 proceedings allow a restructuring/bankruptcy plan to be put to the court on a wide variety of terms from pure liquidation of assets to complex debt restructuring and business disposals and a wide range of outcomes for different types of creditor.

Presumably at least some creditors are going to get either delayed or paid short here but you can't really tell from the article who or by how much.

I do think that it will be even tougher, the article state they have a 'cult following' amongst cyclists. I'm not sure this following - people who're happy paying a premium (for what I've found over the years to not be a premium product) are going to be interested in the diverse range that Niner want to move to.

Reckon kids bikes will be successful to a certain degree, but there's already a huge range of good quality kids bikes around - aren't Isla bikes available in the US now?

That is crap for all involved. Always someone who looses out through actions wrapped up in positive business speak....

Sounds like the sort of creative accountancy you might find in "US Business Ethics 101".

I'm not sure why, I know very little about Niner other than they're pretty niche 29 specific manufacturer but those numbers sound optimistic. $15m/yr in sales? Really?

If you google Chapter 11 bankruptcy you’ll see it doesn’t mean the same as “going bankrupt” over here

As soon as I saw the thread title and then the comment about growing the company I knew it would be a Chapter 11 filing. It'll delay payments to some creditors, in order to create a bit of breathing space, but doesn't wipe out debts the way our bankruptcy does.

I've seen it used successfully by a few companies.

Yeah, Cannondale went through this didn't they just before they sold up?

Anyone else think their landlord saw them coming?

It operates out of a 39,000-square-foot facility in Fort Collins at 2330 E. Prospect Road. The rent there is $27,000 per month.

That's quarter of a million quid per year on rent alone. Are they much bigger in the US than I imagined?

Not trying to be a dick, but all businesses have their time and Niner is certainly past its heydey now everyone's cottoned on to wagon wheels. Their bikes seem more conservative than a lot of bigger manufacturers' offerings too.

I’ve never really “got” Niner.

Zero appeal to me, quite expensive (over priced?) and don’t seem to offer anything that interesting. So no points for value and no points for innovation. I appreciate a lot of people love them.

Having said all of that I wish them well. Small number of employees but they’ll be worried and they and other creditors (excluding the large secured lender who will be ok whatever) may get caught up in this.

Niner were one of the first to do mainsteam 29ers especially in FS guise. One of the first (outside of the UK) to do steel 29er hard tails and one of the first to target Gravel. They were also one of the first to do the several (increasingly expensive) grades of CFRP frames.

Zero appeal to me, quite expensive (over priced?) and don’t seem to offer anything that interesting. So no points for value and no points for innovation. I appreciate a lot of people love them.

Very good suspension design - really excellent execution of a short dual link platform.

39k sq ft is a pretty big factory!

Do you really want to buy a bike from a company that is prepared to screw over the people it does business with?

Did you even read the article?

Do you really want to buy a bike from a company that is prepared to screw over the people it does business with?

Daffy, Chief, interesting comments, thanks. I think my ideas of them as a form come from the rigid 29r but forgot their FS designs.

39,000 ft2 isn't that big for a factory - for context the latest Amazon warehouses are 1m ft2- now that's big!

Their carbon monocoque forks were nice.

I'd have bought a ROS9 if it didn't cost one million pounds.

39,000 ft2 isn't that big for a factory

In the scheme of big business it's a tiny factory. But for what's always seemed like a niche within niche, that's a pretty big space for a little brand like Niner. And commercial space is expensive (because unlike residential property, commercial space makes money for its tenants).

I nearly dropped 3.5k on a new air 9 rdo last week. Think I'll hang fire on that, warranty may be a big issue in the next year!

And is it even a factory or just a warehouse or final assembly space?

Anyone else think their landlord saw them coming?

Not really. £6 ish per square foot per year is pretty standard I would say. If it’s a decent modern building.

(Based on UK prices)

epicyclo - Member
Do you really want to buy a bike from a company that is prepared to screw over the people it does business with?

scotroutes - Member
Who have they "screwed over" and by how much?

Now the monies owed to them will either be discounted or withheld for a long period - or at risk of that being the case.

Let's wait and see.

Feels like it's not so much the £ per square foot, more the square footage. They'd need a good and consistent sales figure to keep all that going. Even if most of it is storage/distribution.

Don't know how big they are now but did they expect a lot more?

Out of interest, Inside Niner bikes....

For those saying they were expensive bikes, remember they come via Jungle who aren't exactly known for their budget pricing

Ch.11 isn't bankrupt, it's just pausing payments whilst they figure out how to go forward, the company can still be worth more than it's debts, it just doesn't have either the cashflow or credit to service them.

It can be more nefarious than that, but doesn't have to be.

Are they MUCH more popular over there than here then?

I ride a fair bit and have a keen interest in big wheels, but very rarely see anyone on a Niner.

Love my RLT, but never been a fan of their FS frames with the horrible reach around lower linkage.

OT-ish (and slightly cynical), but: anyone know if they'll be shifting bikes on the cheap? I'm still after a Niner Apex RLT, looks like a very versatile ride. And the white/orange paint job is lush 🙂