[Closed] News: Santa Cruz Team To Race On V10 29er Downhill Bike

If the syndicate riders fill the podium on Sunday, I fear the Internet may have a melt down!
If it makes them get down the hill quicker then why not use 29.
It's going to make for some interesting racing hopefully.

How smart does that bike look? I have a little moment every time I look at it.

Should probably mention the hub to increase internet meltdown potential…
(we should have had this as the front hub/axle standard on all bikes for years…)

I love how the downhillers are already melting down. People are weird, why would you be loyal to a particular diameter of pushbike wheel.

After a year of trailing the Session, Trek are probably quite annoyed right now.

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/trek-session-29er-proto-revealed/page/3
Think it's being covered in this one

Nick Anderson, Santa Cruz’ head engineer. “We’re fortunate enough to co-own our own carbon manufacturing facility in China, which gives us bandwidth to indulge in this kind of project,“.

The real controversy here is the use of hateful corporate-speak like "bandwidth". This man needs to be hounded out of our sport with all possible haste.

Minnaar on 29" makes sense - he's always looking for longer and bigger bikes, so the 29er wheels probably bring the whole thing into proportion with the average 650b bike anyway. not sure about Vergier - how tall is he? Does he have the same leverage as Greg to wrench that rotating weight around?

If they have the "bandwidth" then why don't they make them the right length so they don't have to use the buzzworks headsets?

This man needs to be hounded out of our sport with all possible haste.

Get over yourself.

Get over yourself.

[img] [/img]

Eh?

Results will decide it IMO.
Will 29 be banned alongside skinsuits?

dirtyrider - Member
If they have the "bandwidth" then why don't they make them the right length so they don't have to use the buzzworks headsets?

It's worth reading [url= https://dirtmountainbike.com/news/greg-minnaar-run-v10-29er-lourdes.html ]this [/url]. It sounds like this whole bike has been put together pretty quickly and basically they've used the same front end as last years bike.

Quote from the Dirt article

“We needed to sit the bike into the travel to compensate for the BB height change created by the larger wheel diameter, and the guys at Chris King were able to make us a Buzzworks headset that then corrected the resulting change to the head angle”

Will 29 be banned alongside skinsuits?

Greg's looks pretty much like a 650b as the frame itself is so big.

[img] ?1493388847[/img]

It would be more interesting to see Loris Vergier's bike in a side-on pic.

Not bothered about wheel size one bit.

Think of it like skis:

There's no one size fits all ski. Think shape, length, weight. Skiing uses different style skis for different jobs - MTB is really no different.

Still, the Interwebz will no doubt implode over this one! 😆

The bandwidth is because they are not an independent boutique brand, but a very small part of Pon, one of the biggest bike companies in the world

It's not hard to imagine the 29er could be well be faster on certain tracks. Also riders like Greg (and probably Peaty) will be more suited to it than others.

The rules allow different wheel sizes so why not race them.

Why does the width of their bands affect the size of the hoops? Could they not ring fence some?

Should probably mention the hub to increase internet meltdown potential…
(we should have had this as the front hub/axle standard on all bikes for years…)

The wider hub seems a strange choice, it wasn't that long ago that people were moaning that new wheels with carbon rims were too stiff. Yet now the industry is trying to make them even stiffer.

I think the big wheels make great sense for someone like Minaar; hope he gets a good result this weekend.

Though with all this talk of extra speed, I wonder when the UCI are going to overturn their skinsuit decision and give the riders the option of going even faster?

Well, everyones on 27.5ers on the practice day - despite the 29 Trek/Mondraker talk - and the fastest 29er is in ninth.

The 29 apocalypse hasn't happened yet.

Because everyone knows it is important to win practice.

Well, the usual suspects are near the top....

except for the one on a 29er 😈 😛

And if Gee thought he'd be quicker on a 29er, wouldn't he be rocking one in practice?

Depends if the people who pay his wages are launching a brand new 27.5" DH bike at the same event and don't want him to ruin it by riding a 29er...
Your mom is calling you downstairs for lunch Tom.

Tin foil hat on, Spesh, Trek and Mondraker have been making very loud noises about running a 29er....seems Santa Cruz fell for it and rushed out a big wheeled DH bike, it hasn't worked in that people thought they'd lock out the podium.....instead an old timer returning from shoulder surgery (Gee) topped practice.

I'm sure 29er DH bikes have their place but can you imagine one going down the twists and turns of Champery, some riders would need a three point turn to get round some of the corners.

A few years ago when the calendar was packed with bike park style courses I'd stake my mortgage on 29ers wiping the floor with existing bikes....but a desire to move back to techy courses, the organisers of Lourdes flattening out bermed turns and making things 'natural' again kinda puts 29er DH bikes a year or two too late to the party.

I could be wrong of course, I'm a very average DHer myself but the top guys in first practice were the status quo, all on 650b and all winners in the past, no surprises there.
I'll be shocked if one makes it into the podium at Lourdes.

I could be wrong of course,

Well Vergier has just put half a second in to Bruni and is winning quali with most of the quick boys down...

Shaw into 3rd on the other bike wheeler.

Well that should shut a few people up.

Mainly one person I reckon.....well there's another thing he's very average at.

So 1st, 3rd and 6th in qualifying. Pretty solid.

Tom_W1987 - Member

The 29 apocalypse hasn't happened yet.

Doh!

TBH everyone knows qualis are pretty meaningless, but it's still fun

I reckon the elite men will be racing the qualis pretty seriously this year, with things looking so tight between the fast guys they won;t want to drop points anywhere.

Really didn't expect such a strong showing from SC, despite being a big fan of 29in myself.

Steve Jones was right, it's a big moment.

Righteous.

I don't know why there's an assumption that 29ers are substantially longer wheelbase - with the same reach and travel they work out maybe a size longer - and considering most riders are sizing up for more stability that clearly isn't a negative.

(I don't have any 29ers - but they make sense to me for WC DH).

Steve Jones was right, it's a big moment.

Four tenths quicker than second.

I think it's way to early to call.

While the big wheels proved they can put down some pace and run at the top of the field, [b]they certainly didn't prove to be the be-all end-all that some rumors had made them out to be.[/b] In fact, the qualifying round in Lourdes produced some of the tightest times we have seen on the circuit with the top five separated by a mere 1.3 seconds, and the entire top 10 all within three seconds. With tomorrow being the true day of reckoning, we are guaranteed to be in for one heck of a show.

27.5 bikes have been quite consistently beating 29ers in Enduro recently - and the current EWS leader is rocking a 170/180mm coil sprung 27.5 aluminium frame Lapierre.

Ffs is was only about 3 years ago all DH bikes where rocking 26" wheels so 27.5 ain't exactly legacy!!
Don't see what the fuss is all about really, some tracks will be better suited to 29ers others 27.5 why not mix and match to suit tracks and riders?
Why the controversy?!!

Four tenths quicker than second.

I think it's way to early to call.

You need to consider how competitive it is at the top end of DH, and who the usual top qualifiers are.

Yes Loris could well have qualified first on his 650b bike. He's one of the fastest guys in the world. But two out of the three SC riders in the top three (and Greg in sixth) is clearly not a fluke.

Why the controversy?!!

I can kind of see what the fuss is about. People have bought SC V10's with 27.5 wheels like their idols, only for SC to now start making them in 29er guise. Not cheap to change SC bikes. If 29er takes off, what happens to the value of the 27.5's?

Are these people going to win a world cup?
Did they buy a V10 because it was good value?

@dyls, if anyone's reason for riding a certain bike is because they worship at the shrine of ratboy, they deserve all the wheel size misery the world can bestow on them.

what happens to the value of the 27.5's

Anyone who buys a bike as an investment - especially in the last few "unsettled" years of standards - really needs to reconsider their strategy.

dyls - Member
I can kind of see what the fuss is about. People have bought SC V10's with 27.5 wheels like their idols, only for SC to now start making them in 29er guise. Not cheap to change SC bikes. If 29er takes off, what happens to the value of the 27.5's?

It's a disgrace. My super 8 is worthless now.

It's racing. Every thousandth of a second counts. You don't buy a downhill bike as an investment. It's a tool for a job and you want the best tool.

You need to consider how competitive it is at the top end of DH, and who the usual top qualifiers are.

Yes Loris could well have qualified first on his 650b bike. He's one of the fastest guys in the world. But two out of the three SC riders in the top three (and Greg in sixth) is clearly not a fluke.

That could quite easily be a case of Santa Cruz paying a shit load to race three of of the worlds top 10 riders.

Spamming the paddock with a lot of good riders to increase your chances of a a win is not a new tactic either....

Four tenths, considering the gaps across the field in DH - and how changeable and inconsistent the top 5 riders are.... is nothing

Wait and see, if the rest of the pack aren't running 29ers by the end of the season or next season - then it's Santa Cruz trying to do product differentiation.

I can kind of see what the fuss is about. People have bought SC V10's with 27.5 wheels like their idols, only for SC to now start making them in 29er guise. Not cheap to change SC bikes. If 29er takes off, what happens to the value of the 27.5's?

New swing arm, linkage and forks and your good to go.

And wheels.... 😆

Yeah, them too.

dyls - Member

I can kind of see what the fuss is about. People have bought SC V10's with 27.5 wheels like their idols, only for SC to now start making them in 29er guise. Not cheap to change SC bikes. If 29er takes off, what happens to the value of the 27.5's?

I bet most folks crying over 29ers didn't do the same when 650b rolled through. Apparently there's just something un-downhill about 29ers that doesn't apply to 26 or 650b.

Where were you NW three years ago?

People were going ape shit about 650b.

I think most people would have been happier to see 26 and 29 developed further as opposed to the half way house.

Apparently there's just something un-downhill about 29ers that doesn't apply to 26 or 650b.

700 size like a road bike innit, probably should be using a monster CX bike really

Tom_W1987 - Member

Where were you NW three years ago?

Watching people getting excited about slightly bigger wheels being faster. The only place I remember people really making a noise about it was rampage, because armchair freeriders thought the wheels would explode and make it too hard to do tricks.

And you notice, people who're making the "too expensive to buy new bikes" argument are generally saying we should stick to 650b, not that we should go back to 26ers. It's a convenient argument people are reaching for when they want to disapprove, it's not the reason. After all, what difference does it make to your bike what Minaar is riding?

Just wait till we get 32 or 36ers, i can hear the wailing already

And you notice, people who're making the "too expensive to buy new bikes" argument are generally saying we should stick to 650b, not that we should go back to 26ers. It's a convenient argument people are reaching for when they want to disapprove, it's not the reason. After all, what difference does it make to your bike what Minaar is riding?

No, people are making noise because we all knew 29ers were possibly the best for flat out speed and possibly well suited to DH. (We don't really know this yet)

But we got landed with a bollocks half way house because the marketers wanted to try to sell us that first and then sell/ease us in to 29ers.

If we were going to do the 29 thing, it could have been done 5 years ago.

But we got landed with a bollocks half way house because the marketers wanted to try to sell us that first and then sell/ease us in to 29ers.

Marketer's sole job is to make you want to buy their product... race teams are often an extension of their marketing team (with some development chucked in).

What exactly do you expect?

Ft William will see a lot more 29ers.

Marketer's sole job is to make you want to buy their product...

Who exactly, from a customer perspective, wanted 27.5/650b Doug? No one outside the industry who wanted to shift a whole load more new bikes wanted them. Some accepted but most have been annoyed that in 2 years their perfectly useable 26" bike was rendered a worthless dinosaur.

The industry doesn't give a crap, it's trying to shift product and the 27.5 shift was particularly cynical. 29" in dh will likely cause a similar level of resentment as its new bike time if you want to keep competitive - if that matters to you.

29" in dh will likely cause a similar level of resentment

I reckon it'll go much more smoothly.

650b ain't going to disappear anytime soon and there will be two decently contrasting options, like with trail bikes.

I don't know what's the most bemusing, folks that haven't an interest in DH yet are desperate for the change to 29, folk that actually want less riders to watch, or the ones who are worried about 29.... there's plenty room for two wheel sizes....

Edit - and what he says ^

I guess we will arrive at a situation where riders select which wheel size depending on the course (I suppose this is basically happening now with SC). Not sure if the average regional DH racer will decide to have a 27.5 and 29 bike, but as already happened at one of the Scottish races, some riders used their trail / enduro bikes (27.5 and 29) instead of DH bikes as the course suited it

Yeah, also know quite a few young guys now that can only have 1 bike, so a trail/enduro makes much more sense, as they have become so much more capable.

Was on the inners uplift a few times over autumn and winter, dh bikes in the minority compared to a few years back.

But we got landed with a bollocks half way house because the marketers wanted to try to sell us that first and then sell/ease us in to 29ers.

you need to stop posting when you're drunk.

What is it with the anger.... I went to check on my 26" DH bike in case it's feelings were hurt and it's just about coping but wondering if it's going to be melted down.

Of all those who are getting upset who was planning on buying a DH bike this year? How many own a DH bike and race it? How many actually own a DH bike at all?

Given 95% of the wheel size debate it over exaggerated bollox about obsolescence and you can still buy a very good range of 26" tyres and rims what exactly is the problem?

Why should there only be one wheel size??

Horses for courses isn't it.

29ers for XC & possibly DH with the extra benefits of rollover & stability.
650b for trail ridibg.
26ers for tight & twisty where agility is key.

I am completely failing to see why we are only supposed to be riding one wheel size...,,..

Nobeerinthefridge - Member

Was on the inners uplift a few times over autumn and winter, dh bikes in the minority compared to a few years back.

Yup, though to be fair inners is pretty tame, for a dh venue- or if you prefer, way ahead of the curve on accessibility 😉 It's definitely true that the whole "you need a dh bike to do dh" mentality that was pretty common 5 years ago is largely dead though- that odd hole in the brain that meant people were totally happy to do uplifts in France then came home and went "that's not for us"

FFS, my 3yr old bike is now 2 wheel sizes out of date! How can that be possible?

It's getting as bad as F1 these days... or Apple!

Luckily i'm not racing World Cups (or anything else for that matter) so i'll save myself the £8k a new DH bike costs these days and just have fun on my 26inch retro bike.

Is it out of date enough for extra cudos? 😉

Wonder how many potential bike sales SC have just scuppered as folks wait for the 29er to be released?

Wonder how many potential bike sales SC have just scuppered as folks wait for the 29er to be released?

Your bike will ride no better or worse than it did a month ago.

@wideboy i was told a while back from an industry insider that the total sales from v10'S doesn't even come close to covering the cost of running the dh team.

Would have thought that they would have tested 29 v 650b and found the 29 to be consistently faster or they would not be using them.

i was told a while back from an industry insider that the total sales from v10'S doesn't even come close to covering the cost of running the dh team.

That's not surprising. Trail and enduro bike sales in 29in will be the main beneficiary if the DH teams do swap over, IMO.

So do we reckon those rumours of a 29in Nomad are more likely now?

Yes.