You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
So worth a punt from my 2019 model?
Link to 2021 model please.
Should be released fairly soon I guess. There was a photo on mtbr. Outwardly not a whole lot different other than it's now a single pivot with flexing seatstay rather than horst link. So lighter, stiffer, simpler. Presumably it's got more anti squat for firmer pedalling like the new Epic Evo. The tradeoff being increased pedal kickback. All the flexing stay bikes I've ridden have some degree of rebound force from said seatstay straightening back out. More noticeable on some than others.
Sort of funny when the Horst patent expired lots of brands started using that but Specialized goes the other way to single pivot, at least for short to mid travel. The grass is always greener on the other side.
🤐
Details will be released fairly soon, though.
The Stumpjumper trail bike concept really, really needs a lot more anti squat than the current iteration. I've had a Stumpy Evo for an year and it was the worst climbing modern bike I ever tried, even a Meta AM 29 had a better climbing platform.
What's the point of having a 140mm rear end when it feels so mushy and wallowy.
Pedal kickback tends to be mostly misrepresented. Even bikes with big scary (on paper) 30° something kickbacks, like the current Enduro, ride just fine and the math proves it.
The Stumpjumper trail bike concept really, really needs a lot more anti squat than the current iteration.
This, the enduro 2020, Santa Cruz and other frames have shown how higher anti squat improves a bikes pedalling and climbing performance, if they nailed this on the stumpy I'd be tempted to drop down from the Enduro to a stumpy or maybe pick up a short travel stumpy to go alongside my Enduro
Yeah I'm sure the pedal kickback is fine for bumps while freewheeling down the trail. But just pedalling along tugging back on the pedals can get a bit tiring on some similar designs I've ridden. And of course being a single pivot the pedal kickback remains high throughout the travel. Having ridden the Epic Evo I can say it pedals very nicely indeed, nothing like the current Stumpjumper, so the new one should be good.
Someone in Germany hit the 'publish' button a little early this morning!
Think it's been pulled down.
Eyes open, chaps...
Going to be officially released at 5 PM today I believe.
yup.
interested in the headset changes
This looks like the 10 grand+ version
I'm interested in the peasant models.
Hope the cheaper models look better.
That has the aesthetics of something from about 2013.
new rubber interestingly as well.
Looks like they heard the critics and corrected most of the relevant problems with the past version. Hopefully also reinforced the suspension hardware and bearings, my Evo was falling apart after an year and going through shock bolts. There will be a long time before Specialized takes a penny from me again
new rubber interestingly as well.
Hopefully more rubbery and less plasticky!
See that the evo has grown in travel and more sizes, the S3 I had felt tiny. Headtubes also now look to be a bit longer, as 100mm headtubes are daft on the big sizes.
chakaping
That has the aesthetics of something from about 2013.
I know it's super important that everone know you have AXS, but the rainbow cassette looks horrific with the kashima.
There was a photo on mtbr. Outwardly not a whole lot different other than it’s now a single pivot with flexing seatstay rather than horst link
U Wot?
That's a significant change and doesn't seem to corelate with Ze Germans picture above. Sure that wasn't a new Epic or something?
that the evo bike.
not as much info in the standard stumpy (if there is at all)
I know it’s super important that everone know you have AXS, but the rainbow cassette looks horrific with the kashima.
And the silver Reverb collar is the cherry on top.
agree that does look gash
U Wot?
That’s a significant change and doesn’t seem to corelate with Ze Germans picture above. Sure that wasn’t a new Epic or something?
I'm guessing the Stumpy Evo still Horst link and the standard model is flexing stay.
Play from 7.04:
It may be 10k but it does appear that you get a water bottle thrown in.
On which basis, I'm sold.
Standard stumpy was pictured with a flex stay, will be interesting to see what effect that has on the sensitivity
So the Epic does have flex stays and so far they've just teased the idea for some flavour of the stumpy (nobody's seen one in real life?), but it's all a bit vague about which version is getting them? Is this a photoshop exercise gone too far?
At a guess I'd assume it to be a shorter travel version (is the Stumpy ST still going to be a thing?) just because there will be a limit to how much you can bend a composite part on purpose, I don't think I'd chose to buy one.
TBH I think the Specialized range is getting a bit too busy these days, they could actually do with making fewer bikes maybe?...
Is this them all on US site?
https://www.specialized.com/us/en/shop/bikes/mountain-bikes/trail-bikes/stumpjumper/c/stumpjumper?q=%3Aprice-desc%3Aarchived%3Afalse%3AproductFamily%3AStumpjumper+ST&text#/result-list/sort:ss_price:desc
Yes.
As ever, we might not see all models in the UK.
Actually, looks like they've only released the Evo today, not the Stumpy itself.
This one is my level. In about 12 months time when the 2022 is announced and there's 40%off.
I dont see a flex stay on any of the models.
I have to admit, I like pretty much everything about this. Am curious to see if they’ve increased the anti-squat.
Adjustable geometry is ideal for a bike that rides everything from singletrack to uplift days. Neutral+low for the winter, neutral+high for the summer, slack+high for gnarlier away trips and slack+low for uplifts on those trips.
Guess we'll have to wait a bit longer for the new standard Stumpy. Don't think there will be a new ST model, the Epic Evo fills that role. But definitely something to fill the gap between the Epic Evo and Stumpy Evo.
There's a few details of the photo with a flexing stay that make me think it's genuine. If it's a photoshop I'm perfectly okay with egg on my face.
Looks to me like the main pivot has moved up slightly on the Stumpy Evo, indicating more anti squat.
It all looks a little bit busy around the shock area to me but what do I know? I prefer my evo from 2013
“Looks to me like the main pivot has moved up slightly on the Stumpy Evo, indicating more anti squat.”
It does look a bit higher. Of course with it being a 4 bar, raising the main pivot won’t increase the anti-squat if the rocker link’s seat stay pivot has risen or its frame pivot dropped or the chainstay rear pivot risen, because it’s all about where the lines through the chainstay and rocker pivots project to.
Surprised how close its got to the enduro, making a bigger gap to the Stumpy, maybe even pushing it to where the camber used to be, although you are at risk of bumping into the Epic evo.
Intrigued to sling a leg over it, personally would of like to have had those angles with less travel, as after a slack short travel bike to do xc/trail stuff alongside the G1.
It does look a bit higher. Of course with it being a 4 bar, raising the main pivot won’t increase the anti-squat if the rocker link’s seat stay pivot has risen or its frame pivot dropped or the chainstay rear pivot risen, because it’s all about where the lines through the chainstay and rocker pivots project to.
Yes, quite right. That makes it a bit harder to tell.
Wil from Singlet...I mean Flow MTB says higher anti squat and more rearward axle path, but still doesn't sound overly impressed by the pedalling.
https://flowmountainbike.com/tests/2021-specialized-stumpjumper-evo-review/
Anyone thinking of fitting an aftermarket coil might need to look at the strut/stroke length ratio too, Fox are saying it could void the warranty on their shocks
Wil from Singlet…I mean Flow MTB says higher anti squat and more rearward axle path, but still doesn’t sound overly impressed by the pedalling.
His bemoaning the fork not having a lockout is perhaps a hint to unrealistic expectations?
His bemoaning the fork not having a lockout is perhaps a hint to unrealistic expectations?
Indeed! The Evo is more plummet than winch, ordinary Stumpy is the better climber.
His bemoaning the fork not having a lockout is perhaps a hint to unrealistic expectations?
I dunno, a fork with lockout isn't exactly unheard of these days, and He did also note that the shocks adjustable compression made an appreciable difference when winching.
I have an older (2015) SJ EVO 29, it's got less travel (and unfashionable angles now), but is also a bit wallowy under power, they're clearly not bothered about designing this out (back to the old anti-squat questions).
The three position switch on that old shock basically does the same job, flick it to 'Climb' mode and it's better (certainly not perfect though) so it seems like SBC are still happy to carry on with the same thing on the SJ-Evo models, make a bike that prioritises trail riding and descending, and address it's shortcomings on climbs with switchable compression...
Fair enough I suppose, if you want a better climbing/pedalling bike they have others in the range, but I guess a fork that matches that 'just turn up the compression damping if you want to winch' ethos would actually make logical sense.
Plus This is a £5k+ bike we're talking about, fork lockout isn't really an unrealistic expectation is it?
This is a £5k+ bike we’re talking about, fork lockout isn’t really an unrealistic expectation is it?
It's an enduro bike really (150mm rear, 160mm fork & slack), and the appropriate forks don't come with lockouts.
Closest would be if it had the Fit4 damper, but people generally want the Grip damper instead now.
His bemoaning the fork not having a lockout is perhaps a hint to unrealistic expectations?
Bike journo in being a twit shocker. Sooner have compression adjust than a useless fork lockout. Have a bar mounted lockout for the shock on the other hand would be useful
Well, I was being diplomatic. But it was a naive comment IMO.
Some bike reviewers are more useful than others eh.
Anyone thinking of fitting an aftermarket coil might need to look at the strut/stroke length ratio too, Fox are saying it could void the warranty on their shocks
What's the problem there then? Clevis mount putting additional stress on the shaft?
I thought lock-out only came on cheap bikes with Suntour forks or similar. Never wanted one on any of my bikes. If your suspension works well why would you want to turn it off?
Makes more sense on the rear.
Bike journo in being a twit shocker.
Is a little unfair, Wil just says it nods it's head on stand up efforts when you're climbing , but doesn't have a lock out on the fork that would help a bit. That's not really being a twit...
Anyone thinking of fitting an aftermarket coil might need to look at the strut/stroke length ratio too, Fox are saying it could void the warranty on their shocks
Can't see why?
The Evo pro comes with a coil shock.
I really like the idea of being able to easily change the character of the bike. Makes it a potential 1 bike for everything, steep and high for trail rides and slack and low for uplift days. But carbon only is disappointing.
Have they said no alu frames later?
There hasn't been any hint of an alu Enduro either, has there?
I thought lock-out only came on cheap bikes with Suntour forks or similar.
My YT Capra has lockout on the forks (Lyrik RCT3, not exactly cheap) and shock, it's really handy. I would want it on a bike like a Stumpjumper definitely. Didn't realise it wasn't cool any more. 😕
What’s the problem there then? Clevis mount putting additional stress on the shaft?
Dunno I'm just a thicko bike mechanic, they sent a lovely technical type bulletin thing, I have tried to add it in the link, because posting pictres is still beyond me.
Interesting. I was told similar when upgrading the shock on my Whyte S150. TF Tuned said they'd had problems with the extra loads from yoke style linkages and the Cane Creek DB coil, as it has a very small shaft diameter, but other shocks with bigger shafts should be okay. Thought they were being overly cautious until I came across one online, shaft snapped and punched a hole through the under side of the top tube.
I've seen this too.. air shocks have a 30 odd mm shaft (the air canister) whereas coil have a solid 12mm ish shaft, AND then the coil around it...
Certain coil shocks only work with the stumpy....
DrP
Interesting. I was told similar when upgrading the shock on my Whyte S150. TF Tuned said they’d had problems with the extra loads from yoke style linkages and the Cane Creek DB coil, as it has a very small shaft diameter, but other shocks with bigger shafts should be okay. Thought they were being overly cautious until I came across one online, shaft snapped and punched a hole through the under side of the top tube.
One of the selling points of the metric standard was more bushing overlap.... Although in the case you cite, non existent application validation.
Old Spesh enduro was renowned for chewing through shocks, placing additional bending load on them.
Long yokes just come across as a bad idea, you would think RS/fox/etc would be guiding and signing off the use of their shocks....
Latest downtime podcast for the stumpy evo is interesting, some of the responses were questionable IMO.
Bike looks lovely and some real nice changes from the current Evo , which I have, in aluminium.
BUT
1. No 27.5 version !? 🙁
2. No Al version !? 🙁
Why?
1. No 27.5 version !? 🙁
2. No Al version !? 🙁
the status does pretty much both of those things. I don't think that non-mullet 27.5 bikes will really exist in a couple of years time - other than maybe on small/x-small things that you can't get a 29er under
I can only imagine that they wont do an alloy version as it will take sales away from the Status, as apart from the mullet setup, they are similar bikes.
Its good to see that they have now made an Evo worth buying tho, as the previous version never seemed to get good reviews.
I quite liked the idea of that, the looks not so much, ohhh they even make a properly big one I thought, excellent. Skimmed a bike radar [s] review [/s] release and it (specifically*) mentions the sizes are pitched for rider weight then gives two examples
The frames have also been built with specific riders’ weights in mind to tune the feel, so someone who weighs 120kg riding an S6 will experience the same ride qualities as a 50kg rider on an S1.
so basically, if you're not 5' tall you'd best be heavy indeed or 7'4".
Ah well, keep looking then.
*I'd assumed this was already the case but it's never mentioned.
thatll just be the shock tune though
thatll just be the shock tune though
On a carbon frame I'd absolutely expect it to be the layup at the least if you made a point of mentioning it but even if it is just the shock tune, that means anyone of a "healthy" weight will need it custom tuned from day 1 or find it wallowy as hell or incredibly harsh as they try compensate for over damping by adjusting spring pressure.
or you could just twiddle the damping dials to make it suit you?
Since SirHC mentioned it, I listened to the downtime podcast last night. The Specialized people said for the shock it's only the rebound tune that changes between frame sizes. Compression tune they think there's enough adjustment externally.
For the frame they tune the ride based on expected rider weight for each size, using a different layup and bigger stiffer tubing for the larger sizes. Personally as someone either fitting a S5 or S6 but only weighing 72kg I don't agree with this.
A bit disappointed that they've reduced the clearance on the back. Couldn't the old stumpy evo take up to a 3" tyre and now it's down to 2.5"? Having plenty of clearance is never a bad thing in my book, it will usually get full of claggy mud at some point.
Think I’ll stick with my 2019 Evo Pro.
I reckon the Casacade link would make the suspension kinematic pretty similar to the 2021 frame.
£300 vs £3000!
2700 is a lot to pay for 20mm extra reach, a taller headtube and steeper seat angle!
Oh and the random bladder thing for the downtube!
This stumpy is too close to the Enduro for me, as someone whos looking at a short travel FS or agro hardtail Id love to see those angles but on a 130/120 bike.
I like the numbers & the adaptability of it. In fact, it's probably a more suitable bike than my Enduro is. Might listen to the DT Podcast - can get corking deals on Spesh so I can probably get out of one, into the other for nothing.
This stumpy is too close to the Enduro for me, as someone whos looking at a short travel FS or agro hardtail Id love to see those angles but on a 130/120 bike.
I think the issue is that the "aggro" geometry puts you in a position where you need more than 130mm/120mm of travel.....
There was a general consensus in reviews that the bike was limited by 140mm of travel (29er version)
the epic evo has a 480mm reach and 66.5 head angle, its not far off?
There was a general consensus in reviews that the bike was limited by 140mm of travel (29er version)
But where do you stop...?
I've a 2019 stumpy... 140 rear, but 160 front.
Feels great on trails, jumps, drops etc...
First FS I've had in yonks and gonna race enduro on it...
I've not (personally) felt it needed more in the rear... it feels bottomless in it's travel...
Plus it's rideable... sdw climbs, technical bursts..great for all...!
DrP
There may be a general industry consensus that less travel = less progressive geometry, but I wouldn't agree myself.
I could see a 130 or 140mm bike with this kind of geo being brilliant fun and really versatile.
I could see a 130 or 140mm bike with this kind of geo being brilliant fun and really versatile.
I test rode the first gen Stumpy Evo, and one the issues, with short travel/progressive geometry is that it does encourage you to seek out steeper and more technical stuff to throw the bike down, and then end up after a while wishing you had just a wee bit more travel to make it a bit more composed over the terrain you're now looking to ride.
Yeah, but I wouldn't have it as an only bike.
Well, I will be (hopefully) taking mine to Morzine in 2021. All my mates will be on DH bikes...
I’ve got a Cascade link on the way and can remove the spacer from the TTX air to get 55mm stroke. Should = 160mm travel at the rear.
Throw a 160mm airshaft and luftkappe in the 36s and should be good to go!
I think the issue is that the “aggro” geometry puts you in a position where you need more than 130mm/120mm of travel…..
But that logic just results in an arms race to slacker --> more travel required --> more slackness required etc.
I quite liked owning a 130mm bike with slack angles. I'd vastly prefer that to a long travel bike with steep angles, anyway.
There was a general consensus in reviews that the bike was limited by 140mm of travel (29er version)
But where do you stop…?
Isn't it more than the shock fitted wasnt upto the job and they simply blamed the lack of travel. Cascade have made a rocker which fixes part of the problem, the next bit is to put a decent shock in there, which on the old one wasnt straight forward as there wasn't always the clearance in some sizes (and carbon?) To run big shocks.
What I'd like to see is a proper bump stop in the shocks and forks, hydraulic as per the ext storia. Then we wouldn't need that extra travel to hide the inbuilt deficiencys of the designs. Might get that at some point with the incremental gains the industry makes.
Yeah, but I wouldn’t have it as an only bike.
I think that's kind of the issue, a stumpy ("EVO" or otherwise) sort of should be the type of bike that you can see as a "one bike solution"... This is really more like an "Enduro light" which is fine, it's just the product naming that's confused think really.
There are lots of other choices for a mid travel 29er with progressive geometry now maybe it's just not in specialized's interests to follow the herd....
Non evo version is on the website, probably by mistake:
Numbers look really good, quite interested in one of the ali ones if they come in a half decent colour.
Numbers look really good, quite interested in one of the ali ones if they come in a half decent colour.
Agreed, that numbers for the frame look good, 140 front and 130 rear too. Have to go have a look at one when they hit shops!
The '19/20 Evo's suspension issues were more related to the kinematics than to the shock itself (which, without being absolutely top notch, was perfectly adequate).
The moderate travel, combined with low anti squat and low progression (9%) just didn't work for full on riding. The bike sat very deep in it's travel, tended to stay there and then hit a wall when out of travel. I'm not exaggerating, my ankles never ached so bad than when I was doing DH laps on the alloy Evo I had.
You could install the biggest volume spacer available, but then, if you're any heavy, the pressure spike at the end of the travel was so high that it messed up with the rebound adjustment.
The non-Evo geometry looks good, but I can;t tell if it has the headset adjust capability of the Evo as well?