You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
I'll shortly be in the market for a new reverb compatible hardtail frame. Requirements are;
[b]*Able to run a reverb.
*26" wheels.
*Be made from steel.
*Ride great with 130mm of travel.
*Stand up to a good bit of ab(use) - jumping, street riding i.e. drops, stairs etc, bone shaking rocky descents at speed.
*Still be a capable enough climber for a trip up Snowdon or a 50km trail centre day out.[/b]
[i]**Tapered fork compatibility a bonus.
**UK designed a bonus[/i]
[i]**Prefer a new frame with warranty etc[/i]
The list I have so far comprises;
a) [b]Cotic BFe[/b] (not in stock until January).
b) [b]New Dialled alpine[/b] (won't be here until spring)
c) [b]Evil Sovereign[/b] (missed all the £299 ones on CRC and wouldn't bring my self to pay more than that for one)
d) [b]Ragley Blue Pig X[/b] (no longer in production? possible production quality issues?)
(Correct me if I'm wrong but [b]Stanton, Genesis and Pipe Dream don't have anything that can run a reverb[/b])
I'm really not interested in anything that doesn't meet ALL the above * criteria! Are there any other options I'm over looking?
Knocked the nail on the head with your first choice. My mk2 BFe is better than life itself, I'm so chuffed with it. The mk3 looks future proof enough, until the industry introduces us to 3" - 1.5" upsidedown taper forks, 30 inch wheels & 200mm rear hubs for our 20speed cassettes...
Ns surge
No go with a reverb.Ns surge
Swingbing the frames you have listed are all great bikes but there is a fair bit of difference regarding geometry.
The Sov is short both front and back whereas the BFe is lon front shortish rear... I prefer the Sov but several of my mates ride BFes and love them... all depends on your preference.
I would say that at 130mm you'd be slightly under forked for the frames listed, I run a 160mm Fox 36 reduced to 150mm on my Sov and it now feels spot on.
As for buying new it is not an issue for the frames listed, pick up a second hand one and go abuse... if you break it (which I doubt you will, I can't, 14st and DH on it) go buy another one... or if you are into lavishing TLC on your bike get a custom spray job and have something special for very little money.
Whatever you buy you will never regret getting a sorted steely.... my other bikes rarely see the light of day now...
[b]Mbnut [/b]- thanks. At the moment for me I'm torn between the BFe and the Sovereign. I'm replacing my Soul because I just discovered a crack in the chainstay. Figure I need something a bit tougher.
From what I can gather the Sovereign is only 5mm shorter at the front than the equivalent size BFe. Doesn't seem like a whole lot to me? Having the adjustment at the back is appealing.
The forks I have are RS revelations, currently spaced down to 130mm, I could up them back to 150mm no problem, not sure myself that 150mm of travel on a hardtail is beneficial, might be wrong though. Little worried that a frame as burly as the sovereign might make that fork feel flexy.
Are Sovereign frames still available if you are looking to buy a new frame rather than second hand? There doesn't seem to be many about.
If you have had a Soul and liked it then the BFe is the naturel choice but i do love to 'slam' the chainstays on the Sov and ummph the thing sideways round the corners... takes 650b wheels too for longer xc type rides.
One thing I would say about the Sov is that it is pretty dead at low speeds, get it to 7mph though and it comes alive.
Would defo pop your fork up though... worst case is you put it back down again but I would stick with it a while as I felt the Sov was a pain to climb on but a couple of weeks riding it and now i love it....
Oh and I run a Hammerschmit so it is a perfect winter bike... no chain suck
Think I'd have to look 2nd hand for a Sov now. Anybody heard any news about Evil recently? Seems crazy for them to stop making such a popular frame, especially considering the profit margins of selling chromoly frames at £600! 😉
I know that you have said must fulfil ALL of your criteria but would you not consider Alu? May open up a few more options?
I know that you have said must fulfil ALL of your criteria but would you not consider Alu? May open up a few more options?
+1
A big fat dropper post makes you lose a lot of the benefits of steel, Alu would be lighter
Maybe my fear of Aluminium is irrational. [s]What are the Aluminium options then?[/s] Actually no, lets keep this real. Alu hardtails just look too bulky. I'm sure they're not all harsh to ride but lets stick with steel for the time being.
Ok Cool
Then Bfe looks like it hits the nail on the head.
Maybe a 2nd hand one or OO 456 till jan?
I'm sure they're not all harsh to ride but lets stick with steel for the time being.
It turns out 6lb steel dirt jump frames are also harsh to ride, dont try and pretend otherwise (many people do though).
From your list, get the cotic because its half the price of that evil. Phone some of the cotic dealers listed on the website, Im sure one'll have a frame in stock.
Get the Soul welded and use it until the BFe frames are back in stock? I've always used a dropper post on my Soul and it still feels quite different to my old aluminium hardtail in the way it damps trail buzz. Regarding the Sovereign, I've yet to work out the true geometry - it looks short and steep in photos. I gather the geometry changed at some point too... There does seem to be a link between good confident riders and Sov ownership though!
[b]davidtf[/b] - I'd never consider the Evil at £600. If I could get one S/H around £200 I might be tempted. I will have a ring around the dealers but cotic have been out of stock of large and medium frames for quite a while now so I suspect they're all gone everywhere.
[b]chiefgg[/b] - Might well end up waiting for the BFe to come back in. I've bought a cheapish ebay special to get about on whist I'm without proper bike.
There does seem to be a link between good confident riders and Sov ownership though!
😀
Swingbing
Just throwing some ideas out there - More to question your logic and I'm not sure they all fit your criteria:
Cove Stiffee - £320 from CRC...
SC Chameleon
Brodie?
Chumba?
Orange?
Another Sovereign owner here. I still think it's the best handling rad HT out there. 140 forks on mine (Vanilla 32s - not stiff enough) - much less travel and it's a bit steep and front heavy, much more and it gets slow and wallow-y.
I think if I were to replace it tomorrow, I'd be torn between an Identical Sov and one of the new BFes...
Ideal scenario would be an updated Sov with the exact geometry, 853 tubing and, crucially, seat tube gusset of the MK1, tapered steerer and 142 bolt through rear, dropper post routing and painted matt black with green decals.
Also, I'd be running a non-existant 34mm stanchioned, 20mm axle, 140mm air sprung, Ohlins damped, twin bridge fork...
Fortunateson09 - What's this about a crucial seat tube gusset on the MK1?
RRD - Thanks for the suggestions, still not tempting me though!
The seat tube gussett on the mk2 looks crap/ even crapper than the one on the mk1
Does it has to be a reverb? I suppose you want a steel HT for the sake of simplicity and trouble free that goes with it, so why not get a gravity dropper and widen your opinion and treat yourself with a [url= http://www.sobre-bikes.com/accueil.html ]sobre bike[/url]
Nice attention to detail, something exotic you won't find in many others.
Had a look at some photos but I'm struggling to see the difference in the 2 seat tube gussets...
It's got to be reverb compatible. Times they are a changing. Plus 100mm of drop is not enough for me.
Plus 100mm of drop is not enough for me.
Hum interesting, where are you riding if you don't mind me asking?
When I first built my Sov it scared me to death and I considered breaking it up and selling on. But mates in the know suggested some small changes and to persist with it and they were right. You see it's a short stiff bike compared with most trail hard tails which makes sense if you consider it has dirt jumping as its background. It's changed, and its changed me. I love it to bits now and will never sell it. One day I will ride it well enough to do it justice. For now I'm happy just to have a tonne of fun on it.
If you want some tips on how to make it more trail riding friendly, email me. I won't post them on here because I'm fed up with being vilified about it.
Plus 100mm of drop is not enough for me.
Gravity Dropper is available with 5" / ~125mm drop. Just throwing it out there.
[b]juan[/b] - riding everywhere really, the lakes, trail centres, mucking about in the street. I like to ride with my saddle at a good height for pedalling, then slam it as low as it'll go for descents.
[b]buzz[/b] - I used to ride a 14" DMR sidekick around trail centres. Obviously it was far too small, the seat post far too long and was a real pain to pedal uphill. On the downs I loved it though. So flickable, made you want to pop of every little lip and undulation. That was a very short bike for someone my size (6'2") but so much fun. I think maybe I'd really like a Sovereign.
Gravity Dropper is available with 5" / ~125mm drop
Is it? In 27.2? TBH tho, I don't want a gravity dropper, they are just ugly. Sorry.
The new Kinesis Decade Virsa 11 - seems to tick all your boxes and some of your options and I have one (7 months old) I can sell you for £190 or £220 with the Hope zero stack headset!!
On paper the spec on those Sobre frames isn't brilliant and the geometry looks a bit odd, what is it that makes them "exotic"?
Nice try nipper, wrong size seat post, bit too xc orientated and presumably it's a warranty replacement which puts me on the back foot straight away. Sorry.
The BFe does all those things, I have the prior model and it's fabulous. Frustrating they are sold out till January but when the latest model was released it sold very quickly. If I were in your shoes I'd pre-order and wait
What size are you after as my LBS has a BFe on the wall for sale
Transition TransAM
close the thread.
[b]ron jeremy[/b] - I'll be after either a large or medium in green if I go that direction. What have they got?
[b]crotchrocket[/b] - Transam you say. Yeah it's a good call, I like the look of them. Think the reverb compatible seatpost size is only on the 2012 onwards (?) so it'd have to be new, or very new SH. So at the moment that's looking like it'll be tricky to find one without forking out close to £600.
@swingbin: with the changes made, my Sov climbs quite well but you still end up shuffling forward quite a bit more than on bikes with steeper seat angles.
[url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=80607 ]crc stiffee[/url] £319 at CRC for a Cove Stiffee which shold meet all your requirements.
I've got a Blue Pig X but they don't seem to be available anymore.
[b]tomaso[/b] - it's been suggested but... I think it's butt ugly. Sorry stiffee fanciers.
Is the head angle on the Sovereign almost two degrees steeper than a BFe? That's what this suggests: http://images.ridemonkey.com/index.php?size=full&src=http%3A%2F%2Fridemonkey.com%2Fforums%2Fattachment.php%3Fattachmentid%3D68164%26amp%3Bd%3D1098281885
[b]Chiefgg[/b] - No that suggests that they are the same with 130mm forks.
Curtis make some nice bikes, and I'm sure if I asked them they'd build me one with a bigger seat tube. I don't have that kind of money though.
that chart is fine for the old sov (size only regular and long), the new one..(sizes s,m,l,xl) has for 140mm forktravel, 68HA and 71SA..
which is close to the bfe with 68,6 and 71,6..
but they ride completely different..
I rather like my sanderson...
That Curtis Racelite *has* a bigger seat tube.
And I love my Sanderson too, but it is 27.2, and it would not be as good at 130mm I reckon...
[b]matt[/b] - does it. Looks lovely. Spec on the website linked says 27.2
[b]accu[/b] If you've ridden both perhaps you give me a comparison?
That chart is almost certainly unsagged geometry, which is about 1.5 degrees steeper with a fork that length. Are those new Sovereign angles quoted with a sagged fork? Having had my Soul next to a Sovereign with similar length fork, I suspect not.
The head angle is not the overriding aspect of the Sov although it's not slack. It's the front centre shortness, the back end shortness and the relatively high BB and the slackish seat angle. It pretty much defies the "new Calderdale " [sic] geometry idea. You find yourself in an aggressive position over the fork.
The Curtis looks mint. I'd love him to braze one for me based on the Sov geom.
I got an '08 BFe and i utterly love it. Definitely a safe bet.
If i was going to change it though, this would be my choice:
[img] 
[/img]
Production Privee - Shan. Meets all your requirements and, well, look at it.
It strikes me that the Sovereign is a bit like a BMX on stilts! Not that that's a bad thing, as my BMX is great fun despite feeling like it wants to throw me onto the floor most days... 😉
Chiefgg obviously thought that one through, unlike me 😳
That Shan does look amazing. Probably too slack for me, doesn't stop me wanting one though!
Anyone know when the Shan will be available again?
Lol that's how it felt when I started on it! But you can do stuff to tame it but it's essentially "hyperactive child " character is still there under the surface. It's never boring.
I have my Blue Pig Mk2 for sale. Ticks all your boxes but its not new 😕
http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1215319/
Sorry fissycat, if I were going to go for the ragley it'd be an X. Rather spend a little more and not carry around the extra weight, plus I like the swopout dropouts. 16" is too small for me anyway.
Curtis, he is in the throws of changing to dropper compatible seattubes, according to the converstion I had with Gary 3 weeks ago, he's also looking at doing a LT 29er
[b]fortunateson09[/b] How did you manage to crack an Evil Sovereign?! Think I may have to just go with the BFe and get the warranty since I seem to be good at breaking bikes. 😕
Exclude your preference for Uk designed
It has to be this
http://www.transitionbikes.com/2013/Bikes_TransAM26.cfm
^^^^
Why?
Genuinely don't know what I did to the Sov to crack it - it's quite old though (I'm the 3rd owner) and it's had some good use.
I'm only 10st ish but I ride like a bit of a wardrobe and I've clattered my way down the Ft Bill endurance DH, Megavalanche, several weeks of Alps abuse, plenty of massive crashes/ coming up short on doubles etc. as well as constant general use as my only bike. I suppose the years just took their toll.
To be fair, I've never heard of another cracked Sov, and I know a lot of folk with similar bikes - Surges, Alpines etc that have been through several frames in the same time...
The seat tube gusset is essential purely for aesthetic reasons. Gussets = radness
I won't post them on here because I'm fed up with being vilified about it.
I bet he's talking about chainstays in the long setting and stems longer than 60mm, the heathen. 😉
Yup 😳
The Trans-Am's geometry looks short and steep up front but with a low BB (although it doesn't look as low in the pics as according to the numbers). Nice looking but quite heavy, especially considering the price...
This is in the classified, not mine, but it looks tidy
[url= http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/ragley-blue-pig-x-17-new-boxed ]stw bluepigx[/url]
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/wtd-long-travel-hardtail-standard-headtube-medium-17-18
Heihei has a Sov for sale....
What size are you...
As I have mentioned quite a few times on here I used to have an Evil Sov and now have a Cotic BFe. Both have been built almost identically and both are absolutely fantastic bikes. The BFe is a better all-round bike while still being playful and being able to jump. The Sov is a better thrasher seat of your pants type bike.
I have ridden The Peak on the BFe and it was brilliant, as you would expect because that's where it was conceived. It has also served well at Perry Barr BMX Track where all I did was wind the forks down to 95mm and got on wit things.
I bounced the Sov around Dalby and I was bloody sore afterwards. All that bike wants to do is launch off everything which is great fun on shorter rides but really tires you out on longer rides.
Overall I would say the BFe is the better bike as it still has the fun factor of the Sov but it is just as good at simply going for a ride. If your not in the mood for being pinged off every bump and root then the Sov will become tiresome but the BFe will let you get on with it and come alive when you feel like it.
Here are some gratuitous pics.
[url= http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4028/4517708733_da76b9bc04_b.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/29930426@N04/4517708733/ ]DSC_0025[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/29930426@N04/ ]i_ache[/url], on Flickr
[url= http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4054/4518311522_643a804cc3_b.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/29930426@N04/4518311522/ ]DSC_0006[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/29930426@N04/ ]i_ache[/url], on Flickr
[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7143/6825319677_8a277686c8_b.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/29930426@N04/6825319677/ ]P1010082[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/29930426@N04/ ]i_ache[/url], on Flickr
[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7016/6811595717_5cb22488c5_b.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/29930426@N04/6811595717/ ]Cotic BFe[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/29930426@N04/ ]i_ache[/url], on Flickr
Must get some better pics of the BFe.
Anybody heard any news about Evil recently? Seems crazy for them to stop making such a popular frame
Yes Evil is now making a Carbon DH bike:
*eyecandy*
[img] 
[/img]
Evil will also make a carbon all mountain, probably a 29er and some other 130 mm travel bike I believe.
They stopped the production of the Sovereign apparently because they did not sell enough of it O_o (I guess this was only true before CRC sold them 50% off)!
Interesting looking stuff here...
I've seen this designer's home-made full-sus bike in action - it's totally mint.
Just put my Evil Sovereign MK2 up for sale, not new i'm afraid but a brilliant bike
http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/fs-evil-sovereign-nukeproof-headset-m-270-posted
Just put my Evil Sovereign MK2 up for sale
It looks like it's your lucky day Swingbing! 🙂