[Closed] New Soul from Cotic

Shoot them from the side as well as the arty 3/4 shots please 🙂

The Soul page on the Cotic website in Dec 2002:

https://web.archive.org/web/20021218084407/http://www.cotic.co.uk:80/

I like how the words to describe the bike have barely changed:

[img] http://homepage.mac.com:80/spittingcat/cotic/product/interface/body3c.gi f" target="_blank">http://homepage.mac.com:80/spittingcat/cotic/product/interface/body3c.gi f"/> [/img]

Hello everyone!

As has been alluded to above, the Soul has always been about progressive handling, especially when it first arrived. It's just the rest of the world caught up over time. I used a 90mm stem on the first prototype with 680mm bars, and ended up with an 80mm stem and 710mm bars by the time I switched off 26" wheels, this on a large. Paul rides a small and had a 65mm stem on his even in 2003, and we have never advocated stems longer than 90mm, ever. Moving to a sizing that allows the use of super short stem even for tall chaps like me is why there's been such a big change. And it needed bigger jumps between the length of the sizes so people had less need to adjust sizing with stem length. We are trying to keep stems for handling, not bike fit.

And the change in the other parts of the layout are all because it needs to work as a system. 35mm stems fell amazing when you have the length in the bike, but also because they make the steering so responsive you need to slacken the head angle to counter this slightly, so the rate of steering response is intuitive. We tried the length and 35mm stem with the previous generation geometry and it just didn't work. We kept adjusting it until we found what we consider to be the sweet spot.

Seriously, riding it believing on these things, and luckily we have a demo tour for that. Soul will be on demo from a couple of weeks' time.

Drop me an email any time if you have specific questions.

Cheers

Cy

kelvin - Member
Small and Medium bikes are built ready to shoot

Sideviews of build up bikes in S and M would be really helpful. Please! 🙂

[img] [/img]
[img] [/img]

A few more photos now here … http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/soul#gallery

More next week… everyone busy today… have a good weekend peeps.

Love that orange one ! Nice !

I said Friday was Cotic day didn't I 😉

Phwoar! That (XS?) chromey one's geet lush as owt.

I think that chrome one is a small, not an XS. The new Souls have properly short seat tubes - as they should for looooong dropper posts.

The orange one must be a medium because the seat tube looks as long as the chainstays.

I'm going to have to test ride some of these. Wondering if a small might work for me as a play bike in the woods...

While the Cotic peeps are looking at this, can anyone tell me if the latest Bfe 26 is a 135mm qr rear?

kelvin - Member

A few more photos now here … http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/soul#gallery

More next week… everyone busy today… have a good weekend peeps.

Many thanks! <3

Dammit and there was me thinking I wanted a new BFe. I think it's finally time to scratch my Soul itch since seeing them first in What Mountain Bike hardtail frame shootout years ago.

Stunning pictures by the way! 🙂

https://www.flickr.com/photos/coticltd/with/37863997465/

I've got a hankering for a hardtail again and that chrome one is screaming at me

Demo needs to be arranged...

Sorry, me again. This is an M frame, I guess. What fork length is it please? 120mmm Pike? thx!

[img] [/img]<

I am a fanboi, Solaris, BFe, RoadRat and Soul. Though I did give my stepson the soul ...
Dunno why but that leave me cold ... 🙁

The rear stay bridge on the BFe now shouts Emmelle ... ab the shiny soul with stick on graphics is a little Tescos at best ...

Sorry, me again. This is an M frame, I guess. What fork length is it please? 120mmm Pike? thx!

130mm Pike I expect. It's one of the custom options. Play with the Soul bike order page and you'll see all the fork options…

So being a jammy sod and having mates in high places, I managed to steal that orange bike^^^ for a couple of hours this morning.

Due to some technical issues with the forks I ended up with a pair of 140mm X-Fusion Sweeps rather than the Pikes.

[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4551/38116708044_611cb0b8f5_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4551/38116708044_611cb0b8f5_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
Looks surprisingly normal, ey?

I had the medium BFe on demo a couple of weeks back, so the idea was to ride the same trails and see how different it was. Sadly I'm a bit broken at the moment, so I wasn't able to give it full beans, but there was still stuff to learn.

It climbs very competently - even with the longer than "optimum" forks, I didn't get to try steep AND technical, but it winched up steep and managed a slimy bouldery muddy climb twice without putting a foot wrong, despite an optimistic rear tyre for the time of year (WTB Trailboss). Despite pretty similar builds the Soul is appreciably lighter too.

Compared to the BFe it was very obvious how much more comfortable it was. There's not the same sense of invincibility, but neither do you need to walk back up a rocky DH to go find your eyeballs again. As a relative lightweight (65kg), even though I'd love to "need" a BFe, actually the Soul is far more useful as a general purpose bike for me. It's not as outright whippy as my Soda, nor as snappy handling - no bad thing as I struggle with the transition to riding that after time on my Rocket, but as a general jack-of-all-trades, it scores pretty much spot on

[url= https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4554/27056488069_e17ff18bd0_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4554/27056488069_e17ff18bd0_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

I didn't get to to push either my or the bike's limits DH thanks to last weekends little lie down which has left me with a left leg that is a little unreliable, but at a comfortable 75% pace descending, the bike felt entirely natural - the lesson learnt from the BFe experiment about weighting the front had stuck and it was all very much just like "riding a bike"

To the big question - orange or mercury/pink?

I really like the look of the newer Soul.

Here is the interview with Cy about the new Soul:

JonEdwards - Member
So being a jammy sod (...)

Ha! It says 'Advertisement' above your post which I don't quite get as it certainly isn't 'booked' as an advert but no matter what: thanks for the insight and the "real world" pictures which - indeed - do not make it look that otherworldly ehich is good in my book. 😉

Normal Man - Member
Here is the interview with Cy about the new Soul:

Love the video incl. the openess about the On One/Brant Richards connection at the very beginning of it all: On could think though that Guy Kesteven is better at writing than interviewing live but hey: still enthusing and very informative! 🙂

Nice video, but Cy got one thing wrong - a mate of mine has/had a Soul in "British racing pink" as he put it, so that frame Cy was handling wasn't the only one that stayed that colour!

Ha! It says 'Advertisement' above your post which I don't quite get as it certainly isn't 'booked' as an advert but no matter what: thanks for the insight and the "real world" pictures which - indeed - do not make it look that otherworldly ehich is good in my book.

Can't see the advertisement bit, but Jon is simply being quite careful/honest about it. That is a demo bike, and is going into the demo fleet. He calls himself a 'jammy sod' which in reality means that he's a mate and lives over the hill, so getting first go on the demo bike was easy to arrange 😉 He is planning to hand over actual money for a bike if he decides on having one. Thanks for posting Jon.

Love the video incl. the openess about the On One/Brant Richards connection at the very beginning of it all:

Glad you enjoyed it. There will be some more vids about the new bike soon from both us and Guy Kes. I've never been shy about the Brant connection. Wouldn't be doing this now if it wasn't for him and Dave helping out.

[advertisement/PSA] All the new Souls are now in the demo fleet, so if you fancy a spin out on a Soul then get involved with the demo tour. Sam's still out and about [/advertisement/PSA]

Great and interesting video. Really struck home when the interviewer said that the Soul is laugh inducing when rolling down a descent. I have that same reaction. I thought it was just me being over exuberant. 🙂

Will the solarisMAX be getting similar treatment as well as being optimised for 29er wheels rather than chubby 27?

Really struck home when the interviewer said that the Soul is laugh inducing when rolling down a descent.

Will the solarisMAX be getting similar treatment as well as being optimised for 29er wheels rather than chubby 27?

Is that how the current one feels?

I have the mk2 and it's not perfect in either configuration (2.8in chubby), I'd put the BB height in the middle of the two if it was possible.

Love the video incl. the openess about the On One/Brant Richards connection.......

😥 I was very seriously considering buying one the new Soul full bikes as I want to change from 26" soon and I always had a hankering for a Cotic. But that has put me right off. I made a promise to myself never again to buy any product with a connection to Brant after being sold poorly designed and tested crap from him multiple times. I saw the light eventually after being disappointed too often.

So sorry Cy but I'm going to go elsewhere, and I probably won't be the only one that'll be put off by that.

EDIT I can't watch the video, what is the actual connection? Please set my mind at rest.

What does the video say about the connection? I can't watch it as am at work

@newrobdob , feel exactly the same way as you about that numpty, however, Cy and his crew are a totally different bunch.

Way more professional and actually know what they are doing.

I have two of Cy's products and will be buying a third as soon as it becomes available

Both bikes are fantastic and have not even the faintest whiff of Brant Richards about them.

If it turns out he is making money off me buying a Cotic my opinion may change.

I was very seriously considering buying one the new Soul full bikes as I want to change from 26" soon and I always had a hankering for a Cotic. But that has put me right off. I made a promise to myself never again to buy any product with a connection to Brant after being sold poorly designed and tested crap from him multiple times. I saw the light eventually after being disappointed too often.

So sorry Cy but I'm going to go elsewhere, and I probably won't be the only one that'll be put off by that.

Erm, I think he got some advice and support from Brant in the early days of Cotic, around 15 years ago.

I almost admire you for sticking to such a zero tolerance stance though!

It says Brant helped Cy out with getting 100 intial frames made up in Taiwan as he had the connections already established. He had no hand in the design so I think Newrob's being a bit silly and depriving himself of a fantastic new bike.

For the very first batch of Souls, nearly 15 years ago, Brant&Dave arranged the factory production of Cy's frames. Watch the vid to find out how that resulted in the frames arriving in pink (apart from a few super keen riders, people received their frames from that first batch powder coated in the UK, which was always the plan for the orange coloured frames anyway).

Erm, I think he got some advice and support from Brant in the early days of Cotic, around 15 years ago.

I almost admire you for sticking to such a zero tolerance stance though!

That might be ok if its just that, lets just say my experience of Brant products and his attitude towards such problems has scarred me for life, I read "there is a connection" and I immediately felt very very deflated.

@newrobdob , feel exactly the same way as you about that numpty, howver, Cy and hi screw are a totally different bunch.
..snip..
If it turns out he is making money off me buying a Cotic my opinion may change.

I knew I wasn't alone!

I rode a first batch pink Soul for a while… it got powdercoated Olive… it now lives with a friend in Sweden, and is still being ridden… hard.

Brant deserves praise for helping someone else get started.

I think Newrob's being a bit silly and depriving himself of a fantastic new bike.

When purchasing even an On-One frame involves a few months of saving up you choose carefully. When you do that then you are saddled with a faulty piece of crap (which the designer knew and admitted was crap and was pumping them out without fixing known issues) which I had to sell on at a loss it tends to make you very very sensitive about it in the future.

Cy's a proper engineer with a proper industrial engineering career behind him.

The Brant connection basically just caused Cy to take out a big loan and get a whole container of bikes produced fifteen years ago, and not just the one custom frame he'd designed for himself.

I can understand an OO boycott as I've felt that way myself at times, but this isn't an OO/PX bike at all, by any stretch.

The Brant connection basically just caused Cy to take out a big loan and get a whole container of bikes produced fifteen years ago, and not just the one custom frame he'd designed for himself.

Which all turned up the wrong colour due to poor QC.

I've had a handful of Cotics, new and used*, over the last couple of years and haven't had a problem with quality or strength on any of them.

* XS BFe 26, S Soul 26, S Flare, M Rocket, S BFe 275 (nicked 🙁 ), S BFe 275 (going nowhere!)

^ quite. I've had a few over the years also, and I'm currently down to a Soul275, Solaris and an old X that will be going soon. They've all been ridden long and hard and really haven't had any problems at all. The Soul275 and X in particular have both been very good at giving me that "I could get rid of all the rest and just keep this one..." feeling.

I see robdob's point that if you've spent a bunch of cash and been burnt you get angry about it but if he's going associate that boycott on the strength of whether someone from a company has ever had a conversation with someone else from another company and made a decision as a result, then that's going to cut his future buying options down drastically. Almost certainly no British companies and probably a fair chunk of the rest of the world too. I'd say that was being blinded by bitterness personally.

I'd say that was being blinded by bitterness personally.

I couldn’t watch the video so wasn’t sure of the actual connection. Thankfully it’s minimal. Not really much of a connection really!!

Brant deserves praise for helping someone else get started.

This, helping a potential competitor get started, what a ****... 😉

newrobdob - Member

I couldn’t watch the video so wasn’t sure of the actual connection. Thankfully it’s minimal. Not really much of a connection really!!

So you can get that Cotic now 😉

Really like these but Christ they've got expensive! Remember when a Soul was about £350.

£600 now for a steel frame with nothing but a seat clamp... That's getting serious cash!

Brexit, innit bruv. The pound to dollar exchange is borked.

First batch of Souls were £400 … that was nearly 15 years ago.

Just googled and found this handy little tool…

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation

What would goods and services costing
£400 in 2002 cost in 2016?

[b]£597.1514889943893[/b]

That's very impressive considering the latest Soul has thru axle dropouts and how much GBP has fallen vs USD since then.

Yeah, I was going to add that the bolt through axle added £50 to cost.

And the latest version has more metal and decnals... that's all got to cost too... 😉

A bit more from Guy on the Soul

Nice objective review there.

I think he likes it. 🙂

After being battered racing my carbon HT yesterday I am wondering whether - after ive swapped my Anthem to a Spark next year - using the Spark as a race bike only in the main and having a HT like this as the go to fun do everything non race bike would be perfect. Ive never ridden one but so many people with great opinions of the bike cant be wrong.

But you know me, I’ll still no doubt be thinking about that when the gen 6 Soul makes an appearance... 🙂

I was hanging off for one and really like the look. I solid my 26er Soul that I’d had since new, 4 years ago, a few weeks back.

Struggled a bit getting my head round the cost of a nice Gold build though and ended up getting a similar specced Bird Zero TR the other week. I also have an Anthem..

Nice objective review there

I nearly ordered one after watching this. Then realised it's a very biased video. I'm sure it does ride great, but it's really a marketing video not a review.

Should be labelled marketing imho.

The demo days seem a great way of sorting out any doubts, one way or the other- the only way is to have a go yourself, then you can decide whether an enthusiastic review (or marketing vid) matches your experience. I plan to do that in the new year and decide whether a Solaris or FlareMax would suit as an all rounder (I'm def an XL so Soul a little small). It certainly entices me to attend a demo.- so its done its job well.

I nearly ordered one after watching this. Then realised it's a very biased video. I'm sure it does ride great, but it's really a marketing video not a review.

It's a really peculiar video. Maybe it's because I'm spoilt with trails where I live but I kept wondering when he was going to really try the bike out. All it seemed to show was that the bike works well on muddy bridleways. And Guy seemed pleased that he safely negotiated a couple of right angled corners around a building..

I never really saw it as a review. More a explanation of what had carried through from the original through to today. A bit of DNA trace type thing.

That said, in terms of reviews, generally I don't always like bikes Guy likes and give versa so maybe I hope it wasn't a review 😉

Who is this Guy?

Excuse the pun

chilled76 - Member
Who is this Guy?

Excuse the pun

A tester from BikeRadar and from the MTB mags it does/has done.

Hey brant, you'd best not let on what other frame designs you've "assisted" with or someone on here will have their head explode.

It is marketing - we pay for GuyKesTV content, and it's clearly marked as sponsored content on the Youtube page, so all above board really. That said, Guy doesn't do these videos unless he's into the bike, and I thought it would be a nice angle riding new verses original because Guy did one of the first Soul reviews back in 2003.

Souls are in the demo fleet now if you want to book on. Happy to answer any questions on here as well if you have specifics.

Cheers.

That vid is annoying as f*ck, don't get me wrong Cotic Souls are nice bikes, but the amount of over hype in the vid is ridiculous. Despite what Cotic's marketing may say, they've always followed and never led the innovation of where bikes are today.

My main question - I have a pretty new, well specced hardtail which I love, and have zero need of another. But I also have hubs, reverb, pedals, grips, bars, stem, cassette, chain and fork to fit a Soul. How do I stop myself?

How do I stop myself?

Wait for the updated Solaris instead?

Despite what Cotic's marketing may say, they've always followed and never led the innovation of where bikes are today.

Bit harsh, they have certainly gone their own way with steel full-sus frames. If the new Soul is anything to go by, the next-gen ones will be spot-on.

I like it. The only thing stopping me buying one right now is I don't think my forks will fit 🙁

173mm steerer on it (pike I've taken off my sb6 as I've fitted a Lyrik), is there a really low stack short stem anyone does?

[quote=chilled76 ]I like it. The only thing stopping me buying one right now is I don't think my forks will fit
173mm steerer on it (pike I've taken off my sb6 as I've fitted a Lyrik), is there a really low stack short stem anyone does?
Ragley Stubbing stem is very low stack, 30mm.

That'll maybe do it.

110mm headtube plus 30mm stem leaves 33mm (plus a bit) for the headset cups to take up. Prob got 36mm to accommodate top and bottom cup maybe?

Anyone know the depth of hope headset cups for a tapered steerer?

All listed here.

http://www.hopetech.com/product/picknmix-headsets/#tech

You should be fine mate, remember you gain another 5mm or so that you need to preload the steerer.

Used a Stubbing myself to "rescue" a bike build that I hadn't researched properly earlier this year.

Looks like you need a "1" top and a "H" bottom. That's 31mm total stack height for the headset.

Thanks Scot. That's really helpful.

So from what I can see an E2 has really low stack and would work.

Only question is whether this would cause fork crowns to interface with the downtube. From what I can see Cotic usually spec externall cups on the bottom.

Edit. You've posted again.. will have another look

Cotic specify an external cup for the lower - and the upper.

Headset: 44mm external cup lower, 34mm traditional standard upper

http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/soul#compatibility

That's really helpful lads. Thanks!

Need to just mull this over... Think I need to start a different thread now rather than hijacking this one... alternatives???

[quote=chilled76 ]alternatives???

The orange one, surely??

chakaping - Member
Bit harsh, they have certainly gone their own way with steel full-sus frames. If the new Soul is anything to go by, the next-gen ones will be spot-on.

I hope so, I'd love a longer, slightly slacker Flare.

Talking about cotic's marketing of late they have definitely changed tack a bit a few years ago it was #26aintdead "no need for thru axles" etc where as now the latest Bfe is advertised as "longer lower slacker" 😕 I must admit they no longer seem to be the brand I thought they were and this is from someone who's owned 5 of their previous models

Do the new steel frames have any of the old "magic" of the pre CEN ones or are they now just selling based on a cliché? The ones I have tried may have had sorted geometry, better looks and more strength but they had lost much of their inherent steeliness (compared to an original Soul).

Conversely I have always been indifferent to the brand, albeit pleased that they seem to be doing well. Cy popping on here does himself and Cotic credit as well I think, however their full suspension offerings and the latest Bfe and Soul have got me pondering a purchase in the next year. Surprised at some of the comments above, although everyone is entitled to an opinion 😀