[Closed] New Pike setup - long-term consensus?

Air in them and go. They don't dive and the damping never feels harsh so they tend to feel great on all settings, though I prefer the rebound fast. I'm just a weekend rider though.

Four clicks from fully open on the compression.

Rebound to personal taste.

Never touched them again.

(same fork BTW)

Perform brilliantly and I haven't managed to kill a set despite having an exceptional ability to destroy kit.

I run far lower pressures than recommended by rockshox, 2 tokens, not much low speed compression damping (0-2 clicks)

Rebound about half way, cant really remember.

Really smooth all of the time with the 2 tokens taking care of big hits. For reference mine are 160mm 26"

I'm about 90kg , 160mm pikes 650b

2 tokens

Bit less than half rebound, 3 clicks of compression, less psi than reccomnded

Nice !!!!!!

If you ride in muddy conditions the fluid may need changing after a few months as hers only 5ml in one side and 15 ml in the other

+1 for less air than recommended on the fork leg sag guide
Ended up with o e token and about 20 psi less than sag chart.
This was on 26" 150 version.
Great forks.

Still working out what feels best for me ,but so far its somewhere around

1 bottomless token
3 or 4 clicks of compression
14 clicks of rebound
Whatever Air pressure results in 30% sag

85-90 kg rider

Had mine a while:
No tokens (tried one and two of them). Air as recommended for my weight. Found with the tokens although they were incredibly supple at the start of the stroke they ramped up quickly and I was not using the last 20mm or so of travel. Now I use it all apart from about 10mm which is reserved for emergencies/borderline crashes only. Plus I didn't like the overly active feeling at the start of the stroke.
Six clicks from fully closed of compression.
Six clicks from fully closed of rebound.
It took me a while of playing to be happy with this.
160mm, 29er, 90Kg rider.

It's all personal taste and my setup is completely different to my friends who run pikes. In fact most of ours are setup quite differently. Adjust one thing at a time and keep going until you are happy. There's no right or wrong only what's best for you.

30% sag rebound fully slow and I swap between 1 or 0 tokens depending on the trail

I would watch too much re-bound damping on the fork, as it makes the fork slow to return to full travel when riding steps etc. The fork packs down and you get less and less travel.

Watch this at about 1.31. Its a motorcycle but the principal is the same.

I found they feel better with 1 or 2 tokens in. No tokens is a bit too linear and chattery over small stuff IMO. They take quite a few decent rides to bed in - the bushes in mine were very stiction-y initially and they only loosened up after a month or so (Obviously this depends how often you ride).

+1 for ignoring the recommended pressures and just adjust pressure to feel / sag.

The damping feels really nice over repeated hits but the adjustment doesn't make a [i]huge[/i] amount of difference, even from fully off to all the way on. I just stick it somewhere in the middle (~8 clicks on). I'm on the RTC3s by the way so my dials are slightly different (more LS comp clicks) but the damper is the same internally, apparently.

NorthCountryBoy - Member

I would watch too much re-bound damping on the fork, as it makes the fork slow to return to full travel when riding steps etc. The fork packs down and you get less and less travel.

I'm not convinced my rebound functions correctly as its not actually slow hence why its at full slow.

I'm not convinced my rebound functions correctly as its not actually slow hence why its at full slow

The rebound doesn't seem to go as slow as other forks I've used, yours is probably working normally if it there is some slowing of the fork at full closed compared to full open.

I buck the trend of less than stated pressure, i go a little more and a couple of extra tokens.

I go for stability and geometry, something to really push down on and grip.

Yea active forks may look and feel like they're doing more, don't just assume if they're moving more, they're aiding in grip.

Suspension aids grip by allowing the wheel to track the ground, but ultimately how much load you have on the wheel dictates grip, if you allow a fork to move too much, it never reaches a pint at which you can load the wheel to grip.

It isn't as simple as a softer, easier to move for provides more grip, there is a trade off between wheel tracking and loading the wheel, going too soft and underdamped upsets this balance (as well as screwing with your geometry, unstable chassis).

You dont get owt for nowt, it's all compromise.

I just argue if you're getting arm pump/fatigue, within reason id be arguing poor technique or a bit of MTFU and get stronger.

Dean, sorry your wrong.

If your spring is too stiff the wheel cant track the ground so the wheel gets knocked up around and away from the surface all the time.

The softer spring allows the wheel to move up, and down (through your sag), to track the ground = grip.
No sag means no droop travel = lack of grip.

If your getting arm pump because the bike is bouncing around like a bucking bronko the spring is most likely too stiff or over damped.
The suspension needs to be able to work and move easily to allow the wheel to move up into the travel as the wheel is forced up over roots rocks etc. If it cant move up then the whole bike and rider is pushed up and back causing a lack of control and grip and having to wrestle the bike.
The damping is there to control the movement not reduce it.
Think of the extremes in off roading dune buggies etc long long travel with very soft suspension, motorcross bikes rally cars etc.

NorthCountryBoy - you skipped over my most important point, you dont get owt for nowt, it's a balance of compromises.

You're right, if the wheel isn't in contact, it cant grip, what im saying is you need to balance that with enough resistance to body inputs in order to apply load to the wheel.

You haven't just got the wheel tracking vs loading the wheel balance either, you have chassis stability vs wheels tracking too, if the COG isn't in the right place, it isn't loading the wheel, so you're back to a wheel in contact again, with no load, hence no grip. Why do you think F1 cars have stiff stable suspension? To stop the COG deviating from the sweet spot, into a position in which the correct wheels are not being correctly loaded.

A wheel touching the ground, but with no load on it isn't going to grip. An unstable chassis that chucks the riders COG into an incorrect position is also going to reduce grip due to lack of load on the wheel.

But yea, you also have to factor in rider comfort too, basically im saying it should be as stiff as the rider can cope with, whilst applying a bit of MTFU.

PS, in all the reading on suspension i've done (i did a dissertation on it, data logging on a formula student car), relying more on damping than spring to maintain stability isn't the best way to go about it.

I've set mine up by trial and error. I seem to have settled on them quite soft in compression, so low air pressure, about 110psi or something like that (i'm 90kg in my birthday suit), and the compression damper set around the middle of the range, maybe a click or two off (not sure which direction from memory). Conversely i've got my rebound damper quite low so it springs back pretty quickly. Feels pretty planted and 'poppy' to me like the wheel follows every bump and undulation rather than bouncing from one to the other, and soaks up the big hits quite well.

I've got my rear shock set in a similar fashion - but the low rebound takes some getting used to as it can try to buckaroo you over the bars if you're not careful. Totally used to it now so not a problem, but I got a few scares at first.

Dean the link to F1 is irrelevant. Race cars (track circuit etc) are set up stiff because the ground is very flat, not like a typical MTB trail.
The COG of the chassis is pretty much irrelivant too, because on a car the chassis weighs say 1000kg and the driver 90kg
On a bike the rider is 90kg the bike is about 12. So the rider has a far greater effect on the COG than the bike and the COG is constantly changing because the rider is almost always moving about on the bike.
Well done with the dissertation and the reading you have done. I have picked up a bit of experience over the years working with long travel suspension systems.

Ooooh, fight!

Seriously though - I'm sure dean has a point. Basically that if you set the fork up for comfort, you probably won't get the best performance out of it. Forks that feel nice in the car park might not feel great on a rocky descent. The other thing is terrain - if I'm trying to hold a line on a straight ish rocky descent then softer might be better. If there are lots of twists and turns then more support, a platform to push off, and potentially more lateral grip might be better.

Superficial I think you and I basically agree.
The platform to push off is the damping so controlling the suspension travel, the feature that allows you to hold the straight line through rock gardens is a soft spring to allow the fork to absorb the changes in terrain.

so rocky decent down into tight turn. Soft spring (air setting) with enough damping dialled in to stop you diving under braking for the turn. Come off the brakes suitable rebound damping to stop the front bouncing back up pogo stick style but not too much so the fork doesnt return to full travel quickly.

No fight because I really dont think you can change someones point of view on a forum. Especially if they have written a dissertation on it.
But I thought it was worth giving my point of view as its based on experience working with suspension specialists in motorsport.

Yea im not going to be persuaded otherwise unless I see a well substatiated counter argument.

The cog thing was in regards to the rider. Think about riding a step on steep stuff. Rigid fork, hit it, get picthed forward, riders cog gets displaced further forward, soft suspension, forks compress, cog gets pitched forward, somewhere in between, bumps gets partly absorbed, forks stay high, cog is pitched forward less. Balance of compromises no?

Ie no "right" answer, just the one that best deals with abd considers all parameters, just making it softer isnt paying its dues to all that needs considering.

The other factor to consider is that I don't think concepts based in motorsport (cars) bear much resemblance to cycling. As you say, the ratio of bike:rider weight vs car:driver weight is very different. Also, the main 'mass' of a cyclist+bike is the rider who can constantly vary their COG / positioning which must have a dynamic effect on the way suspension works. Finally I don't really know how you start making a distinction between suspension fork performance and rider arms / legs suspension which obviously do something to completely alter the way the 'system' works in a way that car suspension doesn't experience.

E.g. do your arms provide relatively more compression damping than a fork? I suspect they do. What if you're a weightlifter vs a 10st lanky racing snake?

Deanfbm, what sag are you running?

At 90kg I should be running 85psi according to the chart

I run 65psi and get 20% sag, which is firm enough for me and 3 clicks of compression to keep it riding high without diving + 2 tokens is enough to keep me from very rarely bottoming out

Dean, you're oversimplifying things. Firmer is better for jumping and pumping, softer is better for keep the front wheel tracking over off-camber rough slippery stuff. Everything else will be a mix of pros and cons. Like for climbing, softer is worse because it'll bob more but better because it brings the front down and steepens the head angle so it'll wander less and climb over things better. Short corners can be loaded better with firmer settings, long corners with softer settings.

The real question is how would Hora set his up.

After reading loads I fancy trying 1 token in my pikes... Does anyone have 1 they want to sell???

I think many people run the front too soft and the back too hard. yes this will mess up the geo.

your spring provides support and sets the sag, in the case of pikes it is an air spring so it will ramp up as the fork compresses, the volume reduces and the pressure rises.
all air springs have this behavior and all you can do with tokens is adjusts how fast this ramp up takes place.

softer(lower rate spring) is not really better to keep your suspension tracking over bumps, and harder (higher rate) is not better to stop pedal bob or reduce rider induced changes.though it may seem to help it is wrong.

it is the job of the damper to provide controll to the movement of the suspension both in high and low speed events and the job of the spring to provide the correct level of support for the rider and bike, not to stopp dive or absorb energy from the trail.

of course there is plenty of rider preference and trail conditions to consider plus I have hugely simplified all of this and may be completely wrong 🙂

ps coil is best /troll