[Closed] New Orange Five : Revealed

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I have to say, there is a lack of innovation, which we should really push in the UK, we're good at invention.

(OK, it fits a new wheel size, whoopee, surely they could innovate and push something else).

Plus, the one thing to confuses me - why the IS tabs?

Thank you, I have no idea why it wasn't working 🙄

Orange aren't exactly very innovative - changing wheel size is pretty radical change compared with the usual tweeks 😉

Lack of innovation, you'll get shot down for saying that. Very true though

You could of posted a 5 year old picture up and i would not be able to tell the difference.

I have to say, there is a lack of innovation, which we should really push in the UK, we're good at invention.

It's a bike, with 2 wheels, small changes are all that's happened for 100+ years!

If it isn't broke....
Not a bike I'd have, never liked the look of them, but alot of people seem to like them. So why change whats already working.

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Massive change for a small company to make such alterations to its core product. Not sure most the commentors have a clue so far.

Atleast it give the range the definition it needs between 5 and 160.

Cant wait to see the reviews, maybe 650 is now the trail wheel.

I wonder if you could put the 650B swing arm on the 26" front triangle? 🙂

I'm about to buy a Santa Cruz Superlight. You could say the same about that.
I want a bike that's easy to maintain and that won't be any more out of date in 10 years time.
Not everyone wants a Fire Blade I would be very happy with a Bonneville.

If it isn't broke....

...then it probably will be soon.

😉

What's NEW about it?

Not sure most the commentors have a clue so far

What I'm saying is Orange are a great UK company, but lack innovation. They've created a very well selling product that is great for the UK, but.... that very success has stifled innovation and creativity.

On-One are a good example of a bike company that are keen to embrace new ideas to evolve, while still pleasing their core market.

They develop a product that sells and sells well why change it too much?

orange should do a STW special edition with Cotic stickers on, it would immediately become innovative and great value and be the best option for 24 hour marathon/redbull rampage type riding. 🙄

Anyone else reckon the 5 would look so much better with a straight top tube? It always just looks a bit shit with that kink in it.

They're never going to make massive changes to it because the risk of alienating their core customer / repeat customer is too great. It'll also be a case of evolution not revolution, a bit like a 3 series.

The Five isn't my cup of tea, but I've never really to on with Orange full sus bikes not sure why because I've loved the hardtails that I've had.

What's NEW about it?

Erm

It's 650B though, a 1.5" headtube, 142mm rear axle, lighter than the old five.

still ugly...

surely 650B's innovation? 1.5" steerer is too. Small steps to hone a (very successful) product.

Are they Orange innovations Bregante...and how old is 650b again?

surely 650B's innovation?

Really? implementing 4% bigger wheels that have been about for 40 odd years, and recently pushed hard by Kirk Pacenti? that's innovation?

I doubt you'd say Samsung coming out with the Tocco after Apple released the iPhone was innovation, that's implementing technology that already exists.

I'll stop feeding the thread, my point is Orange don't really need to focus on anything other than tweaking an existing design to make money. Which is a shame, because they obviously had a really good idea, and may be full of others if it wasn't such a success.

James Dyson didn't stop when he created the DC01... why not make the UK greater and keep pushing boundaries? revolution is sometimes better than evolution.

Dyson is an inventor though so a bad comparison with a bike maker- perhaps you mean move production abroad 👿

its a single pivot rear suspension bike who on earth thinks this was innovative?
No offence as i own one

What's the issue exactly?

Its a slightly revised version of a basic product that sells, head tube, wheel sizing and rear axle options to keep up with the other toys the core market middle management types will be looking at in MBR.

Innovation? What's that got to do with it? Nobody important wants an innovative bike, just one that works... which that is likely to do.

_tom_ - Member
Anyone else reckon the 5 would look so much better with a straight top tube? It always just looks a bit shit with that kink in it.

You mean like this?

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Porsche have kept the same shape for decades. Does that make them bad cars?

Can someone trendy buy one of these and sell me their 17" early 2013 model please

You know I'm not a fan of 5 Oranges other than Lester being involved, but hey they do have a very loyal following and for that reason I see current owners wanting to upgrade to the new 650b wheelset which will make them feel "good" & "upto date".
So it's a winner.
But I won't be buying one.

Straight top tube no way, I thought the five was the ugliest bike on the planet before the kink. All the best looking bikes have a kink

Nobody important wants an innovative bike, just one that works... which that is likely to do.

What you mean like us IT professional who have spare capital to spend on fancy carbon designs :p

Sorry patriotpro I was just answering the question that you asked, rather than the question you were thinking. 😉

I believe it will do very well for them and is a good addition to the choices they currently provide.

There are without doubt a large number of Orange 5 fan's, who now have the ability to enjoy their fave bike in all 3 wheels sizes. I can only think of Giant as being the only other manufacturer being able to do the same, and they have yet to get their 650b offerings to market.

How about, instead, we congratulate a British company who operate in a very competitive and subjective market to react so quickly? With the added benefit being their costs to get to market have been kept well under control, maintained their identity and the opportunity for sales, very good.

Whenever I put aside my tribal beliefs and prejudices and look to the bigger picture for just a few moments, my world becomes a much better place 😀

Want a light carbon one. Intense, noted for aluminium frames and welding, have managed it is I think orange should too.

And Turner have done that with the Czar - which looks lovely; considering their Aluminium roots that is a big step for them, they've been at the forefront or 29er for years with the Sultan.

Orange making an XC race bike? That could be pretty cool, made with single pivot, and for UK conditions...

You mean like this?

Yeah, looks way better. The kink just gives it that "Santa cruz shitting dog" look.

I feel odd posting in defence of Orange, but here goes...

Being a small British company, one thing Orange are very good at is innovation. That is not to say that everything reaches production, that can often be too risky, but I've seen dozens of "Strange" badges prototypes over the years, and is bet many more than I've seen exist. Orange have quickly brought many new designs of frame onto the market in their range other than the 5, and sometimes they have worked and stayed in the range for a while, and sometimes they haven't and they've been axed quickly to make way for a new product. All the while though, the 5 has always been a key seller regardless. And as BMW, VW, Porsche etc. will all tell you, when you have a product that works and sells itself year in and year out without you having to market it or reduce the price, YOU DO NOT make big changes to it when you update the range unless you want to risk financial suicide!

Love em or loathe em, the Orange 5 is popular for a reason. And it probably goes a long way to ensuring the financial success of the company, which whilst its working, you don't mess with! Porsche have constantly made small evolutions to the 911 for decades, and it still sells. Had it stopped selling they'd have axed it and brought out a new design to replace it, but whilst it has continued to sell well, it has allowed Porsche to invest heavily in other models and technology's elsewhere in the market place. The very reason they didn't make the Boxster any more powerful or better handling (they could have done and still undercut the 911 price by £20k) is because they didn't want to be a competitor to themselves and risk losing money doing so.

The Orange 5 isn't for me (aside from being expensive for what it is, it doesn't appeal), but it is very popular. Putting 650b wheels on it is plenty big enough a change given the company's reliance on the model in the scheme of things. I wouldn't be surprised if the 650b 5 is sold alongside the 26" and 29er versions of the 5, at least for a year or so, cos I know some 5 owners that will he happy they've recently bought a new one, or will be rushing out to buy an existing model before they run out, cos they want to stick with 26" wheels indefinitely.

I thought there was a discussion going on Bregante. Hence asking a question...

Fair does if it stumped yer 😉

Seems odd to criticise Orange's lack of innovation on the day they actually bring out a bike with a whole host of changes.

I like that. I also like the 'lack of innovation' from a company that has no need to 'innovate' it's core product. There's always a place for a sorted single pivot mid-travel trail bike. I reckon I'd give that a try out if I was after a new FS bike. I'd love to see an split/axle pivot on a 5-based design, but it's a good bike as it is.
Too many times I'm just bemused by what companies do call innovation / progress and wonder where it's actually got us.. too often, just complexity that doesn't add to the ride experience in the longer run. 11-spd + electronic MTB kit etc is coming and will we be better off for it? Nothing against all that, but it's not for me. Guess I'm a 5 type of customer then )

odd how santa cruz didn't get slated by the STW crowd ehen they released their oh so innovative bronson and solo.

I for one am not criticising Orange as a business, as someone who lives about 5 mile from their factory, i hope they are here forever but as bike innovators, they haven't offered anything for a long time.

SC have a least offered carbon.

carbon fibre is farvfrom innovative we're not in the 80's now.

not a fan, but it is simplistic and has adopted some of the fashionable upgrades and improvements that will make it a much better trail bike and more versatile [fork selection, etc].

still unsure how it costs as much as a Nicolai though ! ? !

Innovation dosnt have to mean inventing a new 635B wheel size or some sort of linkage fork. Innovation could be something like improvements to construction that start to shape what you can achieve with the material and design youve chosen.

Look at what GT have done with the new DH bike, back to Alu and lighter for it. Really detailed butting profiles, hollow parts such as dropouts, everything as neat and tidy as it can be.

Then look at Orange, forged shock mount (still looks like a brick, just a bit chiseled), longer front shock mount so thinner guage downtube (but still made of plate, no butting done still?), shonky looking gussets on swingarm (im sure they could have been integrated somehow).

I know it will probably ride great, but as a person who likes looking at details on bikes i just think it looks poor, you see more neat details and innovation on a £500 trek these days. Sure some might say 'it dosnt need it' but then why bother with a new bike, just trot out the 1999 version with a slacker headangle.

still unsure how it costs as much as a Nicolai though ! ? !

It doesen't matter, apparantly.

You should just shut up and accept the price because:
That's what the market will bear.
Guy Martin rides one.
It's built by quaint sweary Northerners who have pictures of naked ladies on the wall of the workshop.
It's unpatriotic not to.
Are you sort of povvo communist or something? - Perhaps you should take up darts instead?

🙂

I for one am not criticising Orange as a business, as someone who lives about 5 mile from their factory, i hope they are here forever but as bike innovators, they haven't offered anything for a long time.

You live 5 miles away, and you're oblivious to their innovations? I have friends that live up your way that used to ride with some of the Orange boys regularly, and they are/were always testing out new prototypes! I've seen dozens of them myself over the years...

Innovations don't always make it into production, but being a small company that makes all (their ally full sus) bikes in house, then can very rapidly prototype and test new "innovations" to see if there is mileage in taking it to market.

Besides, the companies that reinvent their suspension platform (or the wheel size!) every year get lambasted on here! I'm still not an Orange 5 man, but I can understand why they're popular and what the appeal is to the demographic that buy them.

Innovation dosnt have to mean inventing a new 635B wheel size or some sort of linkage fork. Innovation could be something like improvements to construction that start to shape what you can achieve with the material and design youve chosen.

You get me 🙂 Exactly my point. Britain produces some great engineering, I'd love to see it more often in the UK bike industry.

I'd love to see it more often in the UK bike industry

In some ways we do, look at the smaller builders and they put out some good stuff, i.e. Cotic exploring what you can do with steel (even if not everyone likes the results), hope trying to go for integrated cassettes, Charge doing 3D printing of Titanium etc.

But its small fry really, should be much more innovation throughout all levels of the bike industry really, not just high high end stuff.

Innovations don't always make it into production, but being a small company that makes all (their ally full sus) bikes in house, then can very rapidly prototype and test new "innovations" to see if there is mileage in taking it to market.

New Geo each week isnt innovation.

I wish orange would do something about their dropouts primarily, they are still the same as they were back in '99. Must be scope for a bit of FE to look at ways to skim some weight off.

Also, they should really sort out the cable routing, would be easy to mold a cable stop into the dropout so cable came straight out the back rather than being kicked out at an angle and rubbing on the edge.

Same for the front.. "new oval hole!!!" WOW! so why didnt they just add a cable stop to the new shock mount forging while they were redoing that? would be much neater.

Maybe the Santa Cruz comment would hold weight if they were still using a single pivot. They don't, and it doesn't.
If carbon is so 80s, why aren't the innovative orange doing it?

Ah, what would an Orange Five post be without the haters dropping in and expressing their thoughts 🙄

Nor really bothered about the 5, but calling these wheels 27.5 is getting on my tits.

Ah, what would an Orange Five post be without the [s]haters[/s] fan boys dropping in and expressing their thoughts

FTFY

I own one who really cares what others think
Yes it is simplistic, Yes it is ugly but boy does it ride pretty

Is the issue single pivot or looks?

zippykona - Member

Is the issue single pivot or looks?

Neither for me - don't care about the looks and prefer a simple design.

It's the price that I can't cope with:

Cannondale used to make the Prophet in the USA, export it all the way to the UK and sell the complete bike for less than the price of a 5 frame.

Orange fanboy expressing my thoughts 😀 :

My first orange bike was a EV06 which felt "special", I thought I was just lucky, there will be better frames out there and sold it. I then had a GT I-drive, a Cotic Soul, a Carbon 456 and eventually an Orange 5. It couldn't be just luck that both the Orange 5 and the EV06 gave me that special feeling. I mean all the other bikes have their good points but none of them gave me that special feeling.

It's not something that make the bike easier to ride, they just for some reason push me to go faster and jump more. I found both the Soul and the I-Drive easier to ride but both boring compared to the Orange.

Saying that, I don't think I can ever justify the price of the frames new. The frames are good but not £1500/£350 good. Both mine are second hand. I would want to Demo and see why orange went for the 650B though.

Fairly recent Dirt feature listed two Orange single pivots in a 'Top 3' of their all-time favourite and most effective suspension systems. Some might argue innovation's overrated. Make of it what you will. Just saying.

With the 5, 5-650b and 5-29er and the gyro I am going to be doing quite a few demo rides to work out which one is right for me.

I like the look of Oranges, they sort of remind a little of land rover defenders, very utilitarian looks, but great at what they do.

They are more expensive than other bikes I am looking at, but then again sometimes you buy things not just because of the job they do, but how they look/ make you feel when you use them. I could have an epiphone les Paul that would sound great through my little terror amp, but instead I bought a Gibson because at the end of the day, when I am playing badly to myself, the Gibson puts a smile on my face!

At least when your all bitching about Orange, Apple gets a break.
Bike looks good, looking at the pics there seem to be loads of changes, shame the Pro spec seems to come SLX brakes.
Congrats on your new job Sim.
Your bike still looks better sis X

the Gibson puts a smile on my face!

So is this going to be compatible with 650b and 26 inch wheels? I know they're not massively different but erm yeah....

Cannondale used to make the Prophet in the USA, export it all the way to the UK and sell the complete bike for less than the price of a 5 frame.

'Used to' being the key words.

Orange have an established business model and established manufacturing processes. The 'innovation' seen by the big players is often due to their manufacturing partners in Taiwan introducing new processes. The onus is on Orange to keep making money to keep their staff employed and any investors recompensed. Innovation is only worth doing if it brings a return. Personally I think this is quite a brave step for Orange.

still unsure how it costs as much as a Nicolai though ! ? !

Handmade in small-ish quantities in the EU, I'd be more surprised if they were different!

Their stuff is much more expensive than competitors, and I can't afford to buy from them new as I'm still it college, but hey, if you can't afford it, don't buy one and stop whining. No one seems to complain about Hope, and they're pretty expensive.

However the fact that you'd be supporting a British company that employs British workers, rather than some hardly manned production line out in Taiwan has got to be worth a few bob.

It's also worth pointing out that the current five is a round about the same price as an alloy Bronson (£200 more I think). I know which I'd rather.

@Phil40: were we separated at birth? Couldn't have put it better myself, except my guitar is a Fylde acoustic, so I don't have to worry about the amp wrecking the sound. My fingers do that well enough on their own!

It looks like the 26" Five is being dropped so people better get hoarding.

If you're after a 26" I'm afraid you're out of luck, you'll have to go Alpine from now on.

From here, slide 17:
http://dirt.mpora.com/events/downhill/uci-world-cup/saturday-pit-randoms-gallery-fort-william-world-cup-2013.html?utm_source=t.co&utm_medium=twitterfeed

http://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/the-orange-five-is-dead-long-live-the-orange-five/

This is what a new Five should be, in my opinion. An evolution, not a revolution. A few tweaks to produce a bike that rides that little bit better, keeps up with prevailing fashions but still stays true to the original. Whether those tweaks are to angles, pivot position or wheel size is all the same. If they are going to innovate it should be with new models, not by radically changing a bike that people like as it is.

I like the fact that they didn't change the name. The Five29 is a different bike to the Five, but increasing wheel size by 4% is just evolution.

I hope they drop the 26" version. Not that I've got anything against 26" bikes, but they should have the courage of their convictions. If they think a Five rides better with 650B wheels they that's what they should spec it with.

So can you stick the new swing arm on a 2012 5?

This is probably a really really daft question to most of you who know about bikes but I've never seem 27.5 inner tubes so do you just go 26" and pump em right up, or tubeless ?

Or are there 27.5 inner tubes ?

Oh yeah and I think the Crush is going to the same wheel size as well ?

simmy - Member
This is probably a really really daft question to most of you who know about bikes but I've never seem 27.5 inner tubes so do you just go 26" and pump em right up, or tubeless ?

Or are there 27.5 inner tubes ?

yep you can get some 27.5 tubes and some tyres though not in huge numbers...

Tried a very nice 650 frame out it felt good but that was more down to it being a good bike rather than the wheels.

I really like my Orange but I think it'd take some fairly extensive brain injuries before I'd hand over the RRP for one...

rickon - Member
What I'm saying is Orange are a great UK company, but lack innovation. They've created a very well selling product that is great for the UK, but.... that very success has stifled innovation and creativity....

They'll go broke like that UK car company that never changed its design. Morgan I think it was called.

Oh... 🙂 🙂

Fair point though.

it will be interesting to see how many
big wheels = pointless
orange = awesome
convert one way or the other 🙂

[quoteDyson is an inventor though so a bad comparison with a bike maker
Actually he just takes existing industrial technologies an applys them to domestic products.
Clever- yes, inovator- yes, inventor- no.

Another bike with no bottle cage mounts..

Maybe the Santa Cruz comment would hold weight if they were still using a single pivot

Sure about that?

26" is going to be replaced by 650b so all Orange are doing is changing with the market they have no control over, nowt wrong with that.