New / Modern Hard Tail recommendations please...

Cotic BFeMAX worth a look too, I like mine a lot. I recently stuck a -2 degree headset in it which improves the seat angle a bit for me.

Add a Rå .410 to the list /recommendwhatyouhave

Chromag Rootdown.

Very poppy front ends and LLS frame don’t go particularly well together.

From your list a squatch is great having ridden one, the rear tucks in so it corners on rails and it is a fun bike that climbs amazingly well.

Pace would be a good shout. What about a Sonder signal? Not quite as long as many so likely to retain some of the fun element that a stooge has (fellow stooge owner here fwiw)

“Very poppy front ends and LLS frame don’t go particularly well together.”

With enough stack height and riser bars, you can get the front end up easily. Run quick rebound and/or have short chainstays and you can wheelie everywhere!

As a previous Cotic owner I briefly looked at their current offerings. I never got on with my previous Solaris and still find their geo fairly conservative compared to other marquee so decided to look elsewhere.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

Nice….duly added to the geo comparison spreadsheet table!

Thanks gents

i somewhat agree with you both. LLS bikes can certainly be adapted to make them more poppy. It took a little adjustment (mostly in my riding style) to get used to my SC Hightower V3 in terms of it not being naturally as ‘poppy’ as my Stooge or Jeff Jones. I’m happy with how it handles now so hence my search for something similar in terms of geo but in a hard tail offering

“Chromag Rootdown.”

Nice - like the Rå it’s now on the geo comparison spreadsheet.

Thanks

I know somebody who rides a Chromag Arcturian in Squamish.  I guess he'll be along shortly.

A Stanton Switch9'er ti will be my next bike. Steel is available

Depending on what size you are, you could buy my lovely Stanton Switch 9er Ti...available in the classifieds.

Depending on what size you are, you could buy my lovely Stanton Switch 9er Ti…available in the classifieds.

I'd be needing an 18" unfortunately

I ride a Kingdom Vendetta. I changed from a Production Privée Shan to get a little more tyre clearance. Running 2.6 or 2.8 inch tyres is wonderful on hard tails imo.

if I was buying a new HT, my shortlist would include a Nukeproof Scout, a Cotic BFe Max, a Chameleon and a Banshee Paradox. I really, really like the idea of the Chromag bikes, but I’ve always heard they’re brutally unforgiving. As I get older, that spoils my fun more and more.

still find their geo fairly conservative compared

Are you sure? Hopefully not stating the obvious, but you know Cotic quote their geometry as sagged whereas most (if not all) others quote static measurements? On paper Cotics appear steeper HA and STA compared to others due to the shorter fork length once the sag's taken into account.

IMO they're anything other than conservative. My FSers are a GeoMetron and similar Nicolai and I deliberately looked for a BFe MAX for my hardtail as it's a similar(ish) geometry approach.

Edit: my suggestion was going to be a BFe MAX based on your original criteria.

Also run a Kingdom Vendetta alao looked at Chromags and shied away due to massive, thus rigid stays.

Had a Pole Taival prior that was great, but could only really run 2.3s is the back.

Ragley Big Wig?

Same geo as my Blue Pig (running 27.5+ on it 3.0/2.8) and that's got decent geo, still nice and poppy, and goes up and down very well.

“it’s now on the geo comparison spreadsheet.”

If you’re trying to make accurate comparisons you’ll need to correct all the numbers so they’re based on the same axle to crown height. The numbers from the manufacturers will be a mix of static and sagged and with different fork travels.

And if you’re comparing to your full-sus (or rigid bike) you have to compare with them all at ride height (sagged if they have suspension). If not all the reach and stack numbers will be way out, as well as BB drop and angles.

And finally most seat angle numbers are deceptive because they’re not at saddle height for most riders - and bent seat tubes mean they get slacker as your seat is raised.

I love my Pipedream Moxie - but note that the numbers are based on a static 140mm fork and the real seat tube angle at my height is about 75 deg, not 77.5!

No further suggestions from me really - I’d just add that bigger volume tyres are better for me on a hardtail. I’m just over 40 and with a lower back that occasionally flares up - using 2.6” tyres just gives that bit more cushion on a hardtail - without too much of a weight penalty / vague feeling. I haven’t tried 2.8” tyres to see what they’re like though.

Another thought from me is not to go too steep on the seat angle unless your sole / main use is going to be winch and plummet. You end up with more weight in your wrists if you aren’t careful and that’s not comfy over miles and miles. 74/75 degrees seem a decent compromise. You get a bit more forward than traditional frames, but not too far.

Another thought from me is not to go too steep on the seat angle unless your sole / main use is going to be winch and plummet. You end up with more weight in your wrists if you aren’t careful and that’s not comfy over miles and miles. 74/75 degrees seem a decent compromise. You get a bit more forward than traditional frames, but not too far.

This is the dogma of old skool speaking tbh. As the Chief says further up, bar height doesn't need to be as low when your centre of mass is closer to the front axle.

You just need to make sure there's adequate front centre to let your entire position slide forwards as is.

Id upvote my Sonder Signal TI (or Steel) but its not super long or slack ( i think they quote their figures sagged also so looks a bit conservative) mainly due to the poppy comment, mostly because of the short chain stay length i find mine really quite poppy..

I think i also looked at the pace 529? before as a contender for my new favorite hardtail

replace my Mk3 Titanium fully rigid Stooge

Big ask to replace such a special bike! My MK4 is about as close to a forever bike as I've ever had.

Love my BFe Max, really versatile bike.

https://flic.kr/p/2oxJ58n

Big ask to replace such a special bike! My MK4 is about as close to a forever bike as I’ve ever had.

Yup....I'd agree that I'm swallowing a brave pill in moving it on but my 'other' bike is a Jeff Jones.....the Mk3 is very very similar and I just found that the Stooge was getting left in the garage more and more as the Jones does everything that little bit better.

Thanks for all the replies thus far, I really appreciate the questions and comments as they highlight things I need to consider or revisit ie Cotic BFe max.

To clarify, I've spent a fair bit of time speaking to many of the manufactures clarifying their published geo's so all my comparisons are based on static geo numbers thus ensuring (within reason) that I'm comparing like for like.

I'm rightly or wrongly working on the basis that if I can get something that's close to the SC Hightower geo (taking into account the hardtail format) then it'll work for me. I fully expect to go through some adjustment in riding style in the same way I do when going from my FS to my fully rigid Jeff Jones but getting something that's close to the handling characteristics as my FS is the goal.

Reccomendwhatyouride

On One Hello Dave.

Take a decent beating but not beat me up tick
Ideally steel frame tick
29er tick
130+ bouncy tick at 160mm
Go down fast and stay stable ie slack HT big fat tick
Go up well steep SA surprising the best climbing bike I've had on tech.
Not feel awkward on the flats another surprising tick. I thought it would be poor on the flat, it's fun!
Have a very ‘poppable’ front end (the stooge was great at that) so that you can easily loft it over trail obstacles. Another surprising tick

my ‘other’ bike is a Jeff Jones

That's a niche flex that I am very envious of! One day I'll own one of those.

I've just bought dave_h's (originally Andi's) Pole Taival to build up to scratch my steel hardtail itch, which I'll be running with the 150mm Pike's currently on my Orange Five. Perhaps add that frame to your looking list...

“if I can get something that’s close to the SC Hightower geo”

What year is your Hightower and what fork do you have on it? And I presume the flip chip is in low?

I’ve tried several Chromags over the years and don’t think I’d ever describe any of them as supple.

A very happy Pace owner here, riding it just makes me grin!  It's definitely not as 'poppy' with the long wheelbase, but I've put higher risers on and it's helped quite a bit.

@JoeBristol - if only Maxxis did a 2.5-6 Minion SS.

@zerocool - that would be good for a fast hardtail definitely. The old slaughter came in a 27.5x2.6” but it wasn’t really a 2.6 tbh - looks a lot lower volume than say a Forekaster 2.6”.

Got a 2.6” Rock Razor on my hardtail at the moment and that’s got a reasonable volume and rolls fast. Although I think that’s being discontinued isn’t it?

What year is your Hightower and what fork do you have on it?

It’s the latest 2022 V3 model and I’m running it on MRP Ribbon coil forks

Sorry, what fork travel I meant?

Sorry, what fork travel I meant?

Currently set at 150mm

• Stanton switch 9er I absolutely love mine, bit heavy but super capable, great on descents and just gives me a big grin when I ride it

#Reccomendwhatyouruntrackworld

The 18 bikes No.9 ticks all the boxes listed above and is pretty light compared to most steel frames as well. Bought mine in the depths of Covid and wouldn't swap it for the world.

Made in Sheffield by damn nice chaps too.

It looks like a large Hightower with a 150mm fork is within 5mm and a fraction of a degree of a long Moxie with a 160mm fork when both are at sag. If you check your true seat angle and height I can measure my Moxie to see how to compares but I think they’ll be within the range of adjustment on the rails.

Just a side thought. The Kona Honzo ESD has sliding drop outs so you can also play with chainstay length to tweak the geometry for front end liftyness.

Sliding dropouts are a great thing on hardtails - I was planning to use them on my Moxie to tweak the handling but I then got sucked into singlespeeding so they’re somewhere in the middle lengthwise and doing chain tensioning duties!

when both are at sag

Interesting - how did you calculate the sag details?

@rosscopeco, this is a great tool if you want to geek out on geometry etc. I love it.

https://www.bike-stats.de/en/

"Interesting – how did you calculate the sag details?"

I use this for the A2C angle/reach/BB height changes: https://bikegeo.muha.cc/

It's not perfect but close enough. And for a full-sus I just deduct 2/3 of the rear sag and 1/3 of the fork sag to get the sagged BB height and leave the angles/reach as they are unless running the front much firmer than the back.

I am thinking of a similar bike. I was considering sizing down to get more pop / manoeuvrability. Normally a L so thinking a M. Might be worth considering or be terrible advice but it's an opinion and worth what it costs.

https://www.bike-stats.de/en/

@a11y just found that site myself but haven't fettled with it yet....thanks for the recommendation....much fun to be had!