[Closed] new low in the LBS today

i would've kindly told him to (beep) off and stop wasting my time 😉

Some 'customers' need to be told like it is.

Difficult one if by talking to tyre kicker you were potentially losing other sales then you should have politely cut the conversation short and told him to speak to his mate....if however you had the time it might lead to a potentially customer down the line when he cocks up the build, plus being helpful always does good thing for your shops brand.

I worry about the LBS future...I got such crap service at several I decided to teach myself how to do everything. Only job that goes there now is bleeding brakes as I always make a mess and takes me ages. That and sending off suspension.

I did however buy my last bike from my lbs, I asked them to price match online and they did. So I bought it from them as I'd rather support local if I can. But for full retail afraid I won't..

tough one but he was not and I assume unlikey to ever be a customer

he was taking your time and expertise for free in order to use your knowledge to undercut you , save him some money and earn you nothing

I would have asked for a tenner or a fiver to do as he asked or ask him to leave

it is not like it would have cost you money
that said I dont know enough to know if it is one of those where you have to take the rough with the smooth to have a good reputation but that person is NOT A CUSTOMER

Personally i think it is unacceptable to use shops to try clothes on and then go get them cheaper on theinternet but io know folk who do it.

To cut a long story short after about 40 minutes

Doesn't sound that busy 😉

Nothing new, pre-internet days I remember a "customer" asking if it was ok to use our phone while he was in the shop, he the proceeded to phone Chainreaction and place an order.

With my LBS I have had to do the exact opposite- I had to google the part number and what it looked like and print out a picture before they would even look through their spares box!

It was a very, very busy day as we had been dealing with the continetal tyre swap, plus a lot of customers, I was helped out by one of the lads coming in for the afternoon on his day off.
i dont mind spending time with customers.
I wasnt supposed to have been working yesterday either lol, had just popped in first thing to see how everyone was and got roped in to swapping tyres.

He was never a customer, more a taker of urine. I think 10 minutes would of been enough to establish this.

I would never have committed to a shopping list though

From a different angle, I once went in to a bike shop in Leeds with cash in my pocket to buy a new full sus. They had the model I was interested in and when I asked if I could take the medium and large size for a quick sit and spin round the car park the gentleman serving me said "sorry, we don't let people test ride or sit on the bikes until they have paid for them because they come in here, try them out and then go and buy them cheaper on the internet".

I walked out and bought the bike from a different shop.

"sorry, we don't let people test ride or sit on the bikes until they have paid for them because they come in here, try them out and then go and buy them cheaper on the internet".

I can see his point, but a better approach would have been a small deposit, £20 or so, refundable on purchase.

I get this sometimes - people spend ages chatting about someone like a Rohloff, then call up a week later with one they bought on eBay asking how to fit it.

It's hard to know what to do - yes, there's the theory that they might become customers in future. In my experience, though, they don't.

I think my attitude would have depended on his age/experience.

A keen young un, just trying to do what he can with the money he has, I would think was OK ( potential future customer)

Someone older, more experienced just being a tight wad...Jog On.

Then of course there's the other type of customer who comes in to tell you how he knows everything, and you know jack-shit.
Had one the other day, wanted some clipless pedals. Knew all about float, ohhhh yes. As I listened I realised that he didn't really know much at all, so I asked, and it turned out that, no, he'd never actually used them in his life.... He had not the first clue what he was on about, I can only assume he'd heard his mates talking and was trying to remember why that said, but crikey was he looking down his nose at me....

OP that is a piss take in my opinion. However so is a refusal to let someone swing a leg over or test ride a bike that they intend to buy... Apart from a bike to work scheme bike and a recent used frame purchase I have always bought bikes from an LBS where they have been available. The reason behind that is the ability to see the bike/frame in the flesh and to have a test ride. Without those options LBS's don't offer any benefit for a compete bike/frame purchase.

Brilliant just had a email from a guy who wanted a new road bike, again after sorting out size for him as he didnt know anything about road bike sizing, I get an email asking to price match chain reaction who have the bike reduced (but not in his size)
I cant match their price.
this is taking the edge off a great day yesterday 🙁

I'd tell him to jog on, crc do different prices for different sizes, and that size isn't in stock.

I get an email asking to price match chain reaction who have the bike reduced (but not in his size)

Tell him you can only price match items that are in stock - anything else would be ludicrous!

You have every right to feel cheesed off. I'd factor that in to the pricing when he brings it in to be fixed after he fails to put it together.

Taking the total piss IMO. My local lbs guy is awesome...never charges me full price and often does quick jobs like cutting steerer's for free. He's top of my Christmas list each year...so probably gets it back at the end of the year to be fair. LBS' should be cherished (if they're good that is).

The prices for the ones we have in stock are....
And you can come and collect it tomorrow, and we can set up for you in the morning, have a coffee so you'll be riding it in the afternoon.
Or you can wait and wait and wait for CR stock to come up.

Not bringing chocolate biscuits will always get you off on the wrong foot

I would have asked for a tenner or a fiver to do as he asked

and that you'll knock it off the price of any related order he places with you.

From a different angle, I once went in to a bike shop in Leeds with cash in my pocket to buy a new full sus...

23C did this to me when I had a £1K cyclescheme voucher (which they do) in my hand and asking about a specific bike. Couldnt even be bothered to get the new-model-year price list out with me stood there in the shop. So I went elsewhere for my £1K C2W bike, all the roadie kit I was collecting from scratch, and the £2k plastic fantastic that replaced it 18 months later...

Sancho - Member

Brilliant just had a email from a guy who wanted a new road bike, again after sorting out size for him as he didnt know anything about road bike sizing, I get an email asking to price match chain reaction who have the bike reduced (but not in his size)
I cant match their price.
this is taking the edge off a great day yesterday

I work for a parts supplier to the bike trade. Occasionally I answer the phone to a bike shop enquiring about price/availability of Schwalbe tyres (for eg). I'll check stock and quote them a price and they'll say 'Oh, so-and-so do them at £x.00'. I ask if the other company have got them in stock. The answer is always no (otherwise why would they be ringing me?). My stock reply is that our tyres are the same price as the other lots when we've none in stock too...

If he bought in Jaffa Cakes I bet you would have fitted the parts for him there and then and not charged him a penny.

I suspect if you'd explained to him why you found it unacceptable to spend all that time helping him, for him to then to take his business elsewhere, he'd not have understood your point. Some people just bimble through life without any real understanding of the idea of giving rather than taking.

I don't know quite how you'd have done it but I think it would've been fair to say to him that you'd be very happy to help but not if he then goes and buys all the parts you've just helped him decide on elsewhere

He certainly wasn't a customer,not even a potential customer by the sound of it.Unless he was planning on bringing all his bits in for you to build his bike I would have told him to jog on.

While he way stood keying it into eBay, you missed the opportunity to wee on his shoes! And being a bike shop you must have a spare set of Bombers lying around?

OP I think in your circumstance you could have rightly pointed it out to him that your not there as a free resource. If he needs help fitting the part (s) quote him double.

Ive been in a shop, tried something on then change my mind due to not being able to stretch to the price.

a few years ago designed a walkin wardrobe for somebody, they wanted all the sizes marked down, stupidly i did a few days latter some muppet who was a relative rang up and told me the sizes where wrong on one part as he had cut got the timber cut and it was to short, and they where doing the job cheaper than me.

Never tell a customer to much and never write to detailed a spec list.

Oh and quite a few times have quoted for a job to be told the customer can get cheaper materials at b and q,with a pensioners 10%discount on a wednesday, they then deduct the price of materials and want you to pick them up and pay for them.Without actually paying you to source, pay and deliver the stuff they want,

Had this a few times, I generally tell the customer politely that you pay more for our advice and for us to fit the stuff for you, now if you want that, pop down to the Co-op grab us some munch and we'll have a good chat about getting the best components for the bike. About a 1/3 of people get really nice bikes at the end. Another 1/3 timidly re-appear to book their bikes in to have stuff fitted. The rest, well, who cares?

We had a fella in two weeks ago who asked us to swap a power meter spline he'd bought elsewhere onto a new crank he'd bought on the internet. He provided the special tool needed, but it didn't fit. The job took up 30 mins or so of our time. He comes back in a strop and leaves without offering to pay anything. Fair enough....ish, we get on with our lives. Next day he's on the phone yelling at us that we broke his power meter and he wants £700 off us in compensation. Luckily he is a strava man, and his strava postings showed that the thing had never been working.

Having failed in this scam he then posts a nasty review about us on the internet.

Have to say most customers are nice folk and are a pleasure to deal with.

Don't think I've ever had anyone take the piss like that, but then we aren't that kind of shop, we only sell our own stuff.

We had a family in buying a kids bike, sale going well, kid happy, mum and dad happy, after 30odd mins we are literally at the point of going to the till (having negotiated a discounted price) and dad asks for the full details of the bike (size, model etc) sales guys sighs in resignation, knowing what is happening, dad looks at wife, says that their parking ticket is about to expire (it always is...) she offers to go back and sort it, dad says no well come back next time we are in town. Wife says why not just get it? Dad says no, in the end they shuffled off.

We weren't toooo worried as it was a trek bike and they don't sell online but there is another trek store not a million miles away so expected them to go there and see if they would undercut us. Happens all the time, some time they win, other times we do. That's fine, it's healthy competition and rivalry.

Anyway, the other shop obviously wouldn't under cut, and the punter found out about the no online sales from trek, as the boss got an email from the shop address from the guy asking if the bike was still in stock. Unfortunately it wasn't as we had gone bust in the interim.

Unfortunately it wasn't as we had gone bust in the interim.

That'll teach 'em!

Yep. That £200 sale would have saved us! Honest....

Not bike related but we get similar happening at work. We make and fit signs and vehicle graphics, people expect proof copies and colour spec with a quote. No chance, they just send the proof round all the local competition for a cheaper price after we've spent time creating the design they want. They come out with all sorts reasons why they need a copy.

One of my favourites was a guy who came in asking about cube hybrid bikes.
We spoke at length and eventually found the ideal bike for him.
He said he would come in the next day to put down a deposit on the bike as the distributor only had 1 left.
He rang the following day to inform us that another shop had one with a small discount and asked if we would price match. We told him that on a current year bike we wouldn't but could sort him Out with a spares kit and some accessories.
He bought the bike from the other shop, which was 250 miles away, and the very next week the forks packed up.
He then had to drive the 500 mile round trip to take it back to them as he needed it for his holiday only to find out that the replacement fork was out of stock.
My heart bled for him!

As someone who has always been the customer I can say that people who do this kind of wheedling out of information only to go and order as cheap as possible are taking the piss.

I worked out a while ago that some LBSs are great, some are good and some are crap. But so are butchers, pubs, and garages. What you do is shop around over a period of time so you settle on a good one. So you don't have to buy your meat from tesco, or drink in Punch Taverns or use Halfords.

My LBS is pretty good, but they had a bit of a habit of over-promising turn around times and their wheel builder was poor. So I now do most things myself, but use them for stuff I can't do. For example, I needed a headset pressing into a new frame. Now this is not some thing I would need to do regularly and the price of failure is a buggered frame, so I wouldn't buy a decent tool for this, so off to the LBS. I reckon they charged me the going rate, so I was happy. They probably would have charged less if I was a regular, but that is their prerogative.

But I would never use them to get a spec lost or prices or such then use their knowledge to undercut them. When did people become like this? How can these people look someone in the eye while they are doing it?

Amazing the amount of phone calls you get asking for advice on fitting or set up tips for the components people just got in the post from an online competitor. I accept our customers buy some things elsewhere when the prices are just so much lower than what we can offer on OEM stuff etc. But some people have never set foot or spent a penny in our store yet seem to think it is perfectly fine to just use our phone as a technical support line...

I am always nice and help where I can as everyone is a potential customer but I am really shocked with the way some phone calls go.

OP you must have the patience of a saint.

I'll happily admit to buying 99.9% of my bike stuff from t'interwebs, but I'd never dream of taking the piss in such a fashion, if I go in a bricks and mortar shop its because I have a genuine need to buy something then and there.

To go to the extent of getting a build list and typing stuff into ebay in front of you is beyond rude and you should have told him so...

perhaps its worth getting some cards made up with the top 10 bike parts websites on one side, and on the other...

[i]"THANK YOU FOR VISITING GOOGLE'S SHOWROOM... PLEASE DON'T COME AGAIN!"[/i]

This stinks, what's wrong with people. Race to the bottom. People purchasing solely on price. It's rife in this world, expecting discounts as a given or matching the net. Yet it wouldn't happen in a supermarket or many other walks of life.

I never ask for a discount in my LBS, and I don't agree to work with clients in my business who ask for discounts either. Consumers are such cheapskates, price of everything and value of nothing.

It's all rather familiar to most lbs staff. Just one of those things
But you still have to try and be polite etc just relying that you get enough to keep the door open

My current pet hate is questions about road bike sizing
They even ask about size before anything else like budget or which bike

I sell tailor made safaris for a living, and while it's not directly comparable, people do use our expertise and then ask others for a quote on the trip we've planned. As we don't own any of the properties or have exclusive deals, they'll essentially get the same holiday from whomever they buy.

Fair prices, high customer service, and spelling it out are our weapons of choice against people 'shopping' us. We have a 'Guarantee' that is highlighted on our website and goes out with every quote. Hopefully this means people understand we offer financial protection, a local contact you can ask questions, 24/7 backup when you're travelling etc. Some of these you'll get from our competitors in the UK but not if you try and put the trip together yourself or use a tour operator based in Africa.

Perhaps bike shops could have a leaflet entitled 'Five Reasons to Buy Your Components From Us' which they hand to all browsers and information gatherers. If the reasons are convincing enough and the price differential is small enough they might win over a few waverers.

Page two of this thread is what the OP needs to read if he gets another eBay shopper in. The majority of customers are not like this. Most of us expect a fair price and a reliable time estimate for jobs that we can't or won't do ourselves. Most of us will put up with a little bit of a problem if parts have to be ordered etc, but won't put up with being messed around all the time. Many of us will purchase high ticket items from you if there has been a building up of trust.

If you are a good shop, you will do fine. If not, you won't. If I ran a good bike shop I would view that as positive.

OP which bike shop do you work in?

Just in response to one of the comments, price matching does happen in supermarkets. They actually do it themselves and if they are more expensive they give you a little voucher towards the difference. Least the do in my local sainsburys.

😡 ❗ :!:We sell outdoor clothing/footwear in our store and get "showroomed" constantly. We learnt a long time ago not to price match as you would get the response ",they didn't have it in my size"!. We reply, "well we do it, is the price on the label",only lose about a quarter of sales,but we explain we carry good stocks to maintain reasonable margins. OP's guy could at least have bought tyres or tubes for all the assistance he got,not even a packet of biccies!.

Diffrence is DT78 they are national companies negotiating big discounts on product whereas LBS tend to be, well, local.

Yea not saying LBS should do that, or could afford to, was just in response to supermarkets not doing it point.

I think the general gist is the LBS needs to maximise on the value add they can provide rather than the product itself which can be found cheaper elsewhere most of the time. If the difference is small most will go with the LBS (well I would) if the difference is 15% or so more I'll order online. I have to earn that money too!

I have no great issue with people buying stuff online
Just don't like those that take the Micky and want our service / time with no intention of useing us at all

OP which bike shop do you work in? [i]I need to come up with a list of parts for a new frame you you sound a helpful chap who could help me with my CRC order...[/i]

FIFY

70% of my stuff I buy online, the rest from the couple of good bikes shops locally (within 20 miles).

A new shop opened recently, a major chain, so I popped in.

I was embarrassed by the poor stock, high prices and quite frankly ridiculous staff... helpful in nature but clearly not cyclists or even interested parties.

A guy came in and asked for inner tubes, they didn't have any... so he asked for self adhesive patches, the woman didn't understand what he meant... he tried to explain, she began to get cross and said he should bring his bike in so she could sort out what he meant.

What troubled me was that it was busier than any of the other bikes shops ever are and there was a rake of people being feed bs by staff with no idea....

Good luck lbs's... you certainly have your work cut out but helpful, knowledgeable staff are definitely your strong suit.

Flipside:

I once worked with an extremely dumb colleague who would use his own phone and price matching app to help customers [s]get the best price[/s] rape our profits.. This was under the reign of a fairly new manager who'd managed to put our sales up by 50%, and profits down by 50%.
Thank god I was only on a temporary contract. That place was batshit crazy.

LBS needs to maximise on the value add they can provide

It is apparently free advice and trying on clothes

TBH I feel for the LBS and I am blessed [ ish]that Merlin is mine so I dont really have this issue.

Some folk really do take the piss IME

there is no way they can compete with a low cost high volume internet seller.

For a bit of balance...

For years we've had 'we'll order it in for you' aka minimnal need for stock spend/sell at RRP.

Now more riders can afford better kit.

My LBS charges list, takes ages to get stuff in when ordered and screwed up a bearing service on Shimano wheels. And then tried to charge for the work to fix the damage they'd done.
These days I'd rather buy the tools and learn to do stuff my self.

I miss 'my' LBS. Now living in China, I've basically given up cycling, because I can't get the service that I was used to in the UK.
I'd gladly pay a little bit more, for the knowledge that 'my little baby' was being treated well, and that I am supporting the local market.

all those bikes in china and no LBS???

How long do you give it before he turns up with a tapered fork for his non tapered headtube or a standard bb for a non standard bb frame? And then asks for your help? Happens all the time.

A running shop near to me got repeat business from me - I was a complete noob but they took the time to explain things to me about shoes etc. They said they charge £10 for shoe fitting because they get a lot of people who do it then buy off the 'net.
I have since been in a few times and they have been very helpful whether I've bought anything or not, so when I needed some more shoes they were my first call - they price matched their own website (could have been cheaper on other websites but I didn't want them to match those, only their own!) and provided great advice again.
Great example of how it should be done.

Junkyard... they can make it
I have two tiny Giant bike shops in my city of 3million. (Qingdao)

I took my city bike in for new break pads and a chain. 1 hour later I came out, and riding down the road my rear wheel rubs... buggers didn't tighten up the rear axle.

No way, am I letting them my proper bikes.

Amusing that they can make them but not service them

Bet you could get anew bike out the back door for the price of a service here 😆

So you don't have to buy your meat from tesco, or drink in Punch Taverns or use Halfords.

My LBS is the local equivalent of Halfords. It's better than 90% of "proper" bike shops I've used.

I think many LBS's are between a rock and a hard place. As an example I am currently looking at buying a new road bike and have test ridden 3 bikes at two bike shops - I really like one particular model but would ideally like it with Campag Athena rather than Shimano Ultegra, in the colour scheme that the Ultegra model comes in, and with a decent pair of wheels. The base bike is already £300 more expensive than an equivalent full Ultegra bike with decent Ksyrium wheels by the likes of Canyon or Rose, but with Athena and equivalent Ksyrium wheels it is going to be more like £600 more expensive. What makes it even more frustrating is that it will take around 8-10 weeks for the bike shop to get the bike I would like from the manufacturer in Italy, which is much longer than lead times for a Rose and even longer than Canyon.

The current business model used by LBS's i.e. manufacturer, UK distributor, bike shop clearly needs amending to reflect changes in society and technology. Can UK distributors play a bigger role than just acting as a warehouse - e.g. being able to make up the bike I want in one or two weeks rather than the current proposed 8-10 weeks? It's interesting to note that Focus are now selling directly through LBS's without the middleman, and offer some pretty competitive prices. Much as I am not a fan of the branding / design of Focus bikes they may be the compromise I will be making rather than going for my Italian dream bike.

What service they do do, is cheap.
When I lived in Beijing, I could service my MTB, for less than 4 quid 😯
Oil change on the shocks would make it 6 quid.
But to buy my Santa Cruz, it was cheaper for me to fly back to the UK and buy it, then it was to buy one in China.
If I bought a Trek, Spec or Giant (top end) it still would have been cheaper for me to come back to the UK to buy one (incl flight)

That is low 😕

My lbs is very generous to me doing stuff for free to my bike from time to time, and me ending up buying I already have or don't need for the time being to even out favors 😀

Philby.... an interesting point.
The world I deal in, the middle man is now being cut out, with often the retailer dealing direct with the manufacturer.
As you rightly pointed out, the middle man is taking a (large) cut, and is also slowing thing down, due to them handling logistics.
If the middle man wants to stay in the game, they need to put money into it, otherwise manufactures will go direct.
And that leads to the other problem, certain manufacturers (niche ones)can't make the volume to sell direct, so have to use a middleman to stock them.

Any serious hobbist mountain biker shouls be able to service their own bike. The last item on my to do list was brakes. Only me **** ups do I need a bike shop for anything.

The term lbs is redundant due to the internet.

My lbs is merlincycles 30 miles away...online.

We are all typing our thoughts on the internet. The same internet thats changed how we do most things.

As a business you need to adapt to this change or die.

Do the things the internet cant do - service and advice and selling bikes (with proper demos).

Dont compete with the internet, it will be a race to the lowest price. Stick a PC in the shop where they can order stuff from CRC on your account, pay you for it and you fit it next day when it turns up.

All the while you are selling them coffee and cake and letting them see the latest shiny bikes and bits that they cant buy on the interent.

Sell them skills courses, guiding days, uplifts, mapreading skills, how to use a GoPro etc. Use your imagination.

Change or die. Its just how good businesses survive.

Any serious hobbist mountain biker shouls be able to service their own bike. The last item on my to do list was brakes. Only me **** ups do I need a bike shop for anything.

Yes, but a lot of us don't have that much free time. TBH I'd rather pay the LBS to do the servicing so I can use what free time I've got for actually riding the bloody thing, even though I can do most servicing jobs (stop short of messing with brakes though, as I am a coward)

Philby have you test ridden the Canyon or Rose, you may have but I'd not have a clue where to go to road test either of those.
Bikes you can touch feel test and spec do seem to be dearer than mail order bikes. And put into perspective it's not too big a price to pay, and sometimes it can be eased a little with a small discount.
I mean that you can wheel a shop bought bike back for work if needed, and probably enjoy a relationship with the shop over the bikes life.
But as you say things have changed, but for the good? if that means buying bikes unseen off the net, but expecting the shop to be there waiting for when it goes wrong, then not a change for the best IMO.
Personally I think the bike, the owner and the shop relationship is all part of the 'it's all riding' deal.
Can't you LBS guys charge more for servicing internet brands?

Oh and wait for the bike you want, that's what I'm having to do 😥

I'd love to change my own breaks, but I don't have the space. I have no man cave (soooooo longing for)

But dealing in what I deal with (I see, what almost all you guys wear, ride, drive, live in etc) is built/made etc.

I support the local guy, even if it costs a little bit more.

Take your bike to serviced, cleaned etc by an LBS once in a while, the support you get back (hopefully) will x times better.

It's like supporting your local farmers I hope, that where is was for me back home.

Yes Mol, I agree, simple maintenance should be done at home, but I'm past that..not that I want to, I can't.. it's crap here... I don't ride, I have no room to do what I want to.. so when I can, I do. I support.

Mental. I hardly know anyone who can fit/change/replace bits on their bike. Why? Why are cyclists that lazy to learn? Its fun plus you take ownership of your safety. Too busy- it takes minutes once a month say. Loading in your car/the phone calls/park/drop off/drive home/repeat to collect take longer. Average lbs mechanics pushes me to pick it up

Rule #58

Hora.. not mental.
Why should I when it cost 4p to do so?
It cost me 4 quid for an annual service, and I know I am keeping people employed.
The other side if it is, when I get my bike home I have to adjust it properly, but I am also supporting a Grass Route Economy, and when a foreigner comes into the store and has his bike (albeit a single speed crap bike) serviced, it's great them, and again it supports the local area.

You have to look beyond your current picture. You Give. They Supply.

Any serious hobbist mountain biker shouls be able to service their own bike.

I'd rather spend my spare time riding my bike and help keep my LBS in business by paying them to provide a service.

Travis - it costs £4 for a service at your LBS? I don't think it will be around much longer, especially when you say

when I get my bike home I have to adjust it properly

Are they actually doing anything at all???