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I have recently got a new 27.5 wheel which is running with 15 x 100 adapter in.
By hand before I fitted the wheel I felt the adapter rotaion and it felt tighter than I would have expected? Following this I installed the wheel and gave it a pretty hard spin by hand while off the ground and the wheel only span for around 5 seconds?
Whilst I appreciate this can vary a lot with grease fill level and bearing type etc but to me a few seconds free rolling like this felt like something was not right? I know it may free up after use and you would hope it would but does this sound like it is OK? In my experience mainly cup and cone set ups but have got several cartridge bearing wheels also, more road than mtb but have never known a tight feeling out the box and such a short spinning time?
Did you realign the caliper?
Wouldn't worry me, 5 seconds still means it's spinning pretty freely- as long as there's no noise or feeling of rubbing.
The difference in real terms between spinning for 5 seconds and spinning for 5 minutes is probably about the power loss of one pedal stroke
I am just used to a wheel having more free rotation? It seems tight to me that it's not spinning freely as it is a front wheel with no interference from the freehub etc.
Is this commonplace then that they can be like this as it is a new wheel with new bearings? With a cup and cone it would definitely not be normal, my other inferno 25 wheels were spinning a lot more freely than this the bearings themselves feel smooth which is why I was questioning the hub adapter interface also as possible cause? There is no noise but the resistance feels pretty excessive to me.
Drag from bearing seals? If there is no obvious friction/sound, I wouldn't be concerned. Might improve with use.
I wouldn’t be concerned as long as it feels smooth and quiet.
It would annoy me a tiny amount though.
Does it feel notchy when out of the bike? Can you pull the end caps off and directly rotate the bearings. How do they feel?
I wouldn't say it was notchy now when out of the bike but very firm to turn, far more so than any wheel I've turned before by a lot. I have pulled the end caps off and the bearings feel pretty smooth but slightly firm as I believe they are highly filled with grease (SKF) however I am not certain the adapter is interfacing 100% with the bearing when the end caps are in position and fitted. I have never used adapter style fittings before, always bolt thru upon purchase from manufacturer or QR mainky with shimano wheelsets.
Might be me being dumb but recently had the same problem...had failed to spot that the disk side adapter is deliberately longer than the non disk side and I had fitted them the wrong way round
Bows head in shame
A little more info wouldn't hurt or its just guessing...
What's NEW and what isn't... have you removed the disk ??
Links to actual parts would be helpful
The wheel can be held by hand and spun holding the end caps or I can put it in the forks and get the same result. I haven't put a tyre on it yet or a disc rotor but just concerned at this stage that all isn't right with the hub set up. It is a front wheel so as I understand there is just the bearing, o ring and 15mm end cap to deal with. The bearing feels smooth and that is OK but once the end cap and o ring are on there is excessive resistance. I have never known a wheel not spin for more than a few seconds, it is a new wheel.
What hub?
An endcap design should still spin and spin. The end caps push up against the inner race of the bearings. It should be the bearings turning not the end cap against the bearing inner race. The end cap should not touch anything except the bearings (and perhaps the bearing spacer tube but that is also only touching the inner races).
OK, yes I see what you mean. The hub is a aivee MT2 and I think the tight feeling could be from the seal that seems pretty tight as I'm sure it needs to be to do its job but was the only other thing I can factor in that is causing it.
No tyre and tube/sealant? Try putting one on even if you don't mount / seal it. The additional rotating weight at the rim provides a lot of angular momentum, see how long it spins for then, which will I'm sure be (quite a bit) longer. It might also overcome any stiction in the seals of the bearings.
I'd also get out and ride it, which will help with seating, freeing up bearings, getting the grease in the right places and so on. If it's turning for 5s unweighted it doesn't sound like there's any real binding.
OK, yes I see what you mean.
So did you have to fit bearings with the adapter ?
One possibility is they aren't seated 100% flat... it might not matter (much) with a QR but with a thru axle it will exert a twist if they aren't perfectly aligned and square....
Equally as said riding it may move the grease about .. the bearings might be over packed...
Thing is if its the former you'd want to sort that before riding IMHO
Yes all good suggestions thanks, the bearings were fitted by manufacturer, yes I have heard that the grease level determines how easily the bearing will rotate and over time that should free up. I think it just comes down to the fact I have never experienced a wheel not spinning freely for more than a few seconds before unless something was wrong somewhere. As it is a front wheel too even with high grease fill etc I would still expect the wheel to turn more easily than it does.
I have had another look at the wheels today and re checked everything. It is definitely the seal that is causing the excessive friction against the adapter that is running into it and against the bearing. The bearings are SKF and feel pretty decent. Has anyone experienced similar with new wheels and the close fit between the seal and the adapters. I am hoping this will loosen up after a few rides and bed in. I guess the seal is tight which is a good thing for protection and real world differnce it won't add to many watts to my efforts will it?
In the past on some of my race bikes (BMX) I've run cartridge bearing hubs with the inner seals removed from the bearings. But then I also used to build up cup and cone bearings with toothpaste to polish the raceways and 'spin' new cartridge bearings with a drill to loosen the seals up.
A couple of things. Have you tried spinning it with a tyre fitted. as suggested above? Have you tried testing it with the seals removed?
I did try it with the seal out of the way and it ran cleanly with none of the resistance that was there before but in winter and especially dirty muddy conditions the seals are a must surely to protect things.
As said with a tyre on I'm sure the weight will improve the rolling time in the stand but I have mainly used cup and cone wheels in 26 and road bike QR wheels in the past so have never had issues like this.
Noted. Replace the seals once you are happy with the level of grease within. Riding where I do I absolutely fill the cages. Seals are essential on MTB wheels, check that they are properly seated; excessive grease will preclude this.
And then just get out and ride.
Thanks for the advice, the bearings have a high grease fill level apparently and feel that way so I am happy with them. Regards the seals are people using grease also around those externally too? I am waiting for rotors before I can fit them for usage, do the rubber seals bed in usually if they are a tighter fit at first?
Seals will loosen up after a few rides.
If you want super fast spinning wheels then remove the seals and thick grease and only use light oil. If you want bearings to last longer than one ride then leave them as they are.
swapping grease for light oil and leaving out all the seals and dust shields, to reduce friction. They were so much faster that Steve had to change entry speeds and braking points to compensate!
Pro's have been at it for years.
https://www.bikeradar.com/features/steve-peats-world-champs-santa-cruz-v-10/
Some wheels have singled sided sealed bearings that do roll better but I tend to still replace them (when they wear out) with double sided as I prefer the extra bearing life span. For the sake of a loss of a couple of watts.
If you want super fast spinning wheels then remove the seals and thick grease and only use light oil
Welcome to track bikes. My fixed wheel bikes use low flange track hubs with limited (no) sealing. Riding through winters, I've not had any issues - but then they are not off-road. With a mechanic to re-oil the bearings after every ride, of course this is the way to go for those additional gains.
Nice article on Steve peats, to be honest I have had enough of hearing about aero gains and performance gains on bikes. I have spent the last decade or so doing a lot of road riding and whilst I want a decent set up I enjoy the mtb riding more for the exploring and escapism. I was just very sceptical when I got this wheels that them not turning on the hand for more than 3 or 4 seconds was going to account for more than just a few watts. Now I've heard more opinions and knowledge from others it seems there is a lot more to it. I have probably spent too long with either old retro worn mtb wheels or brand new high performance road wheels with no middle ground. I will definitely be keeping the seals on the way the weather is shaping up, I guess for road use in summer running without the seals would be do able but not on mtb in my experience, not if you want them to last long anyway.
There's no real harm in adding a dab of lube on the seals (wipe off any excess). Until they break in.
Some more reading on bearings it you're interested
https://www.hambini.com/support/bearings/bearing-technical-information/