[Closed] New frames that ride like old Konas?

My Saracen Kili Flyer (2012 853 frame) isn't far off. It's pretty fast steering, put it that way.
But, to be honest, my '93 Explosif (Tange Ultimate Ultralight) is in a different class. It's just a rocketship if flickable pointyness. I wanted one in '92 and couldn't afford one, I built this a couple of years ago and it's everything I ever wanted and more. If you want an old Kona, only an old Kona will do I think. 🙂

I picked up a 2005 lava dome in very good condition for a couple of hundred quid, not as pricey as expplosifs and tubing not so flash but still really nice ride and the 2005s had disc tabs as did the purple 2006s which pop up now and again

pretty much swapped everything out, it rides really well

the 650b explosifs are supposed to be ace but a bit pricey!

heres mine
[img] [/img]

edit

infact if you are a large...

http://singletrackmag.com/forum/topic/fs-clearout-frames-mechs-shifters-bars

I bought a Kenesis Decade Virsa to emulate my old Kona frame that was stolen.
It has the Tange Prestige tubing, skinny seat tube etc and rides lovely.

Mr Poddy has it though, only the real thing will do and there are many appearing on Ebay regularly.

A new frame that rides just like your old Kona, or how you remember your old Kona to ride?

If you mention what size you're looking for, I'm sure someone on here will find you an old Kona frame to build up.

>double post<

Nothing will really ride like an old Kona except an old Kona...

but help us out here, you've told us you're not getting on with your Soul, what was/is it about your old Kona that you like so much and are those thing still relevant to your modern riding?

Plenty of people* still using old favourite frames, some have sent their old frames off for a disk mount a spruce up to modernise, easy enough to do and if you really like it then as long as it still suits your needs then why not?

*me included

@kimbers

Probably one of the best photos I've seen of a bike that 'just looks right'.

Nice.

Have a look for a Voodoo Wanga. Not the new Halfrauds alloy one, the Reynolds 631 tubing one.

Its designed by Joe Murrey, the same as the old Kona's, and feels remarkably similar to ride. Its designed to take up to 100mm fork. Great fun to chuck about on twisty singletrack. Sliding dropouts mean you can run it single speed, if thats what floats yer boat

It was zingy and just felt right really. Can't explain it. Not too harsh or dead either. I generally blast all Iocer the South Downs so it's all cross country stuff. I liked the fact it was fairly light weight

A new frame that rides just like your old Kona, or how you remember your old Kona to ride?

Mine rides exactly the same but better than the 4 others I had before it (91 Cindercone, 93 Lavadome, Hei Hei, 92 Cindercone)
🙂

The thing is, back then, RACE and LIGHT ruled the world. So the bikes are just that. Fast, quick steering and light. My Rxplosif frame is a whisker over 4lb which is nearly a pound lighter than my other 2 853 frames. It runs probably the best rigid fork ever made, the Triple Butted Project 2, and a host of lightweight retro bling. Without even trying its under 24lb ready to ride.
Bikes aren't made like that any more. They're slacker, heavier and have suspension. All of that is great but it dulls the feeling that a lightweight old rigid bike gives.

I think I'd feel much more like the OP if my 95 Kilauea had a touch more tyre clearance at the back. It's still a nice bike to ride but it wouldn't be my favourite - I think that bikes have moved on for the better, even if you get a current frame with rigid forks though. The biggest issue you'll find with a current (eg now rather than in the last few years) steel frame is that the CEN changes have killed off a large number of springy steel frames.

FWIW though, I don't think that my Kona or many others of that era actually have a particularly springy 'steel' ride. A lot of people feel what they think they should IMO.

Obligatory pic
[img] [/img]

It just felt right

A lot of people feel what they think they should

Exactly what I was thinking. However much you like your new "like an old Kona" bike, there's always going to be a part of you that thinks "Hmmm. It's not an Kona though..."

Don't take the chance. Get an old Kona frame, tart it up a bit if you need to. Keep it light, new light stuff as bling as you like, stick with rigid forks around 425mm (or maybe less if it's really old?) or get some SIDs and space them down to 65-70mm.

Here's mine, a 1997 LavaDome. All in I think it's cost about £600ish to build it up, with a few mates rates. Took it out at the weekend and it rides great... all be it nothing like a 150mm full susser! It makes easy things harder/more fun.

[img] [/img]

Peterpoddy. I think you have nailed it. Some lovely pics by the way!

I think I am going to hunt down an old Kona to build up.

I just sold a 95 Lava Dome with P2's and Rock Shox, full original LX and Campag Stheno (?) on XT wheels. I only got £100 on ebay, I think the buyer got a bargain.

They are long though, I sold it because after time on Kinesis, Dialled and Charge frames it just felt waaay too long. Can you borrow one to check it isn't rose tinted specs syndrome?

[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-17-kona-explosif-650b-2013-800-rs-revs-x9-dropper-thomson-easton-1 ]Something like this?[/url] I love it. Only selling up to get the Ti version. Also some new '13 models online for great prices!

Market has changed, when I started the norm was 71/73 and about 22.5 top tube 135 stem, 5 degree rise and slammed,

find that bike now. stems are shorter, top tubes longer, head angles slacker and bikes have gone from rigid to 100+ front travel.

Also consider that cutting bars down was normal, that cutting down from 560 or less!

A wanga is not quiet as nice as an explosif as it is not so composed at the rear end on bumpy stuff, or at least I found. the geometry is nice though.

If you are near Woking in surrey I have an 18 inch steel wanga built up that you could try out to see if you like it. I also have an 18 inch voodoo bizango frame that I bought for 80 quid, which you could build up to see if you like (or I might swap it over with the wanga frame anyway).

The bizango it's probably going to be the most explosif like as it is a Joe Murray design (like the Wanga) but is 853 and specified for 100mm forks (as is the wanga).

Both are sitting in the garage doing nothing. If you liked either you could have the frame for 80 (paint job is better on the wanga - a Bob Jackson one in peacock blue).

Bizango pics here : I was going to do this but I bought another flux frame so the parts from the Wanga are going on that now I think :

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=54974&start=10

[img] [/img]

Sanderson.

Rides like my 93 explosif but is heavier.

Thats nice Turnerguy. Manged to did a picky up of my old one….

[url= http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3821/11291862373_94f112bccb_o.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3821/11291862373_94f112bccb_o.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/14162682@N00/11291862373/ ]Voodoo wanga[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/14162682@N00/ ]binlidski[/url], on Flickr

That's not my bizango though, my frame is white but has a few chips on the paint so I was going to get a respray, and have got some (but not all) replacement decals from voodoo, Joe Murray answered the email and posted them 🙂

[i]FWIW though, I don't think that my Kona or many others of that era actually have a particularly springy 'steel' ride. A lot of people feel what they think they should IMO.[/i]

This, in comparison to newer bikes the Hahana and Explosif I had weren't all that. Nice bikes, but certainly the Explosif for me was one if the most disappointing bikes I've ever ridden, just flat feeling. although to be fair, my main ride at the time was a Scandvik Hummer, so pretty much anything felt dead in comparison

My 1998 & 1999 Calderas have DB stays are really very comfortable and springy.

I think similar years Explosifs had the same stays with a fancier front triangle (Kilauea 631, Expolsif 853)

The closest I have found so far is the Soul.

nothing rides quite like an old kona...

luckily for you I have a delightful 92 vintage cindercone for sale...

🙂

FWIW though, I don't think that my Kona or many others of that era actually have a particularly springy 'steel' ride. A lot of people feel what they think they should IMO.

I don't either. But by fek does it ricochet off the rocks and belt up hills a bit sharpish. It's light and unbelievably direct.

By comparison we had a Genesis iO single speed that weighed 2.5lb+ more then my geared Kona, was a shockingly poor climber and as dull as ditchwater.

TurnerGuy,

I'd be interested if you are selling either of those frames
My 1996 Voodoo only has canti mounts so a new frame would be cheaper then getting disc mounts brazed on and re sprayed

Sold my '98 Kona Hei Hei last year to a guy in Thailand for silly money and in it's place got the last version of Litespeed's Obed frame at less than half price. Love it and wouldn't think of going back, nor would I want to drive my 90s Fiesta XRi again either.

Having said all that, the old Konas were a bit special.

this is how good old Konas were : [img] [/img]

I love and hate my old nineties Columbus Max Explosif in equal measure; sometimes we get on and other times it tries to kill me... but I will have the last laugh when I kill it 😈

PeterPoddy - By comparison we had a Genesis iO single speed that weighed 2.5lb+ more then my geared Kona, was a shockingly poor climber and as dull as ditchwater.

Thats not quite how you worded it in the advert I bought from. I am however loving it so much that I'm thinking of changing it for something better... if that makes sense

Thats not quite how you worded it in the advert I bought from.

busted !!!

Here's my Voodoo Wanga :

[img] [/img]

(if you can't see it it's a facebook thing).

with 100mm Reba's on, XC717s on Hope XCs, and 110mm stem, which I use as my 'guest' bike as it is so solid. Weigh's about 26 like this I think.

It has sliding paragon dropouts so is pretty versatile and I keep considering putting an Alfine 8 on the back, but in reality I don't do mud so much these days and if it is not too bad I take the turner as the bushings are so good in the mud.

You are welcome to come and try it as is, and I could put some lighter wheels on if you want to see what it is like with a little less weight.

I could then swap the frame over to the Bizango as I was going to do this anyway to see what it was like - I had always been on the lookout for one from ages ago and then one came up on ebay, so I bought it when I don't really need it now.

So one frame will go and the other may become the 'shopping' bike for runs to the local village...

Note than the Wanga has a very tall headtube so is a bit different to the bizango - but the user reviews are always very good so it is worth trying I reckon, if you are close.

Also note that seatpost/saddle combo - USE titanium and an old flite gel flow - it's really springy and add a lot to the ride quality !

I will email you...

thepodge - Member 
Thats not quite how you worded it in the advert I bought from. I am however loving it so much that I'm thinking of changing it for something better... if that makes sense

Ouch! 😆

Wow those voodoos are lovely! Would it be possible to send me pics? I'd be interested.

I went from Explosifs to a Sanderson Life and wasn't at all disappointed.

There's a cheap Sanderson Life on ebay now, but it has a reserve...

Here's a google cached image of the white bizango frame I got from ebay :

[img] [/img]

Here's another of the Wanga upside down having the wheel re-inserted :

[img] [/img]

Here's my old Columbus Explosif with 80mm forks - I swapped to the Wanga to use 100mm forks and discs :

[img] [/img]

and here's my old folding commuting mtb, a Dahon Zero-G which was also designed by Joe Murray I believe :

[img] [/img]

Wow those voodoos are lovely! Would it be possible to send me pics? I'd be interested.

you probably mean the ones on the retrobikes link - I think they are all in the states.

I bought my white frame mostly after reading that thread - planning on a respray/powdercoat for it as it's a little tatty - I think I will need to create the Bizango decals for it as Joe didn't have any to send.

It seems to have turned into a bit of a Voodoo fanboy thread, this 🙂

I loved that bike. Losing my business meant it had to go. Sold it for next to nowt too 🙁 but as someone who loved old Kona's too, I couldn't recommend them highly enough. Great ride-all-day-while-grinning bike!

really loved the 'old' Konas, especially the early 90's Explosif - was a lovely XC bike

was lucky enough to then own a couple of KHS Montana including the Pro (True Temper OX Ultra II tubing) and Team Ti (butted titanium) which were both under 22lb with Future Shock MMX fork, Syncros finishing kit and Shimano XTR

shame the "new" Kona hardtails are nothing like the old, when I worked at Evans we kept having to do this, because they were all coming 'bent out of the box'

[img] [/img]

It's a Joe Murray love-in thread, apart from his Halfords stuff...

Closest ride I've found to an old Kona (I had a late 90's explosif) is a Voodoo Sobo, don't think you can still get them in the UK anymore but last time I looked they were still available in America. Joe Murray design, fast, light and nimble handling.

TurnerGuy
Replied to your email, it's only fair I give first refusal to the OP now he has expressed an interest in your frames, let me know though if it doesn't happen
I was in touch with Joe Murray last year too and got sent replacement decals for my old Voodoo, had a good conversation about the old bikes, sent him some pics of it in various disguises, really good friendly chatty bloke, main thing that's stopped me getting disc tabs fitted and re sprayed is loosing the "hand built in USA" and "designed by Joe Murray" stickers
Mine is a 1995/6 model frame number 37, was one of the first imported to UK by sShockwave in Nottingham, went in for an Orange Clockwork, got talked into the Voodoo, somehow don't think I'd still be riding the 1" headset Clockwork today had I not been persuaded otherwise

I got [url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CHARGE-DUSTER-SKINNY-MOUNTAIN-BIKE-FRAME-BLUE-YELLOW-NEW-IN-BOX-FREE-P-P-/271340438164? ]ONE OF THESE[/url], I haven't ridden it yet though as I'm waiting for some Soma forks to arrive, I'm hoping it will bring back memories of my Raliegh RSP frame of the 90's 🙂

Mailed the OP !

But not in a rush to sell, if you want to watch that Sanderson Life that is cheap on ebay at the moment...

I always thought that the chromag sakura might be a good modern equivalent. Didn't Scapin used to make an xc frame from 853 as well?

I've yet to find a frame as good as my 99 explosif. And I've tried a few.

I have both a 14" and 18" 2002 Kona Explosif frame or full bike for sale. This is the same as Turner Guys with the Platinum OX Tubing.

Thanks Turnerguy. And thanks also to iain1775. What a lovely bunch you guys are! Much appreciated.

Shame neither of you are close so you can ride them.

Cheers pebbles. I'm hoping for the Bizango. Thank you for letting me know 🙂

Ive noticed that the more hardcore my bikes have become the less I enjoy riding them. A colleague gave me some cross tyres that I put on my old knackered commuter as it's my only working bike out of the two. Had loads of fun and the bike was tons more responsive. Got me thinking about why and what I do really needs 140mm of travel and box section seat stays...... I'm not slow by any means but at the same time I'm not Josh Bender either. I just ride on the South Downs and explore really.

I just didn't get on with the Soul. I'm still gutted that I don't. Got it resprayed and everything 🙁

Waller do you still have the soul?
What size?

iain - what model and size is your current Voodoo.? I've got one of the first run of Taiwanese Erzulies, bought sight unseen..
I was a bit disappointed when it wasn't one of the US made frames from the description

I'm quite happy to run v-brakes and might be interested if you're thinking of moving yours on..

Sorry Yunki not for sale, it has sentimental value and is set up as the 'family bike' with child seat on
I couldn't sell it even if it comes out of service I'll stick it on garage wall as art

aaaah right.. fair do's 😀

Yeah sorry was my 21st birthday present and first 'proper' mtb
Been all over the place on that bike built it up and rebuilt it so many times and its seen evolution from cantis and rigid forks to aheadsets, various suspension forks, Vees and front cable disks
It's only the Hoodoo so was pretty much the base model at the time, pretty much equivalent to a Cindercone but still one of best bikes I've riden

lovely lovely bikes..

Find an old kona and renovate it? This is my first MTB, a 97 Cindercone now with discs and 100mm forks. Tis just as good as I remember.

[img] [/img]

In rigid guise:

[img] [/img]

Oh, go on then (I have no advice for the OP by the way).

'97 Hei Hei, now with Rebas, Middleburn cranks, Hope Race, Hope Pros on Stans and Thompson/Easton finishing kit.

[URL= http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g52/kona_01/IMG_0731.jp g" target="_blank">http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g52/kona_01/IMG_0731.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

'93 Kilauea now used as general dogsbody.

[URL= http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g52/kona_01/DSCN0994.jp g" target="_blank">http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g52/kona_01/DSCN0994.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

Nice Explosif by the way PP, I think it must have been you I was chatting to at the 2012 BBB.

Just wondering pebble... Would there be a chance to email me what you were looking for the 18 inch frame only? I might be interested in the running a 2nd bike with a baby trailer on.

Cheers 🙂

I ride a Cotic Soul and also a '97 Kona Kilauea.

The Kona feels faster on more xc type stuff in that the back end is a bit more direct but still compliant where as I find the Cotic a bit too flexy. The Soul is a bit more sluggish uphill aswell. I run 100mm Z1's and 120mm Rebas on the Soul but overall the handling is very similar.

However discs on the Soul make a massive difference and if I ride Glentress then the Kona feels a bit out of its depth. The extra compliance of the Soul really helps there.

My advice if you don't like the Soul would be restore an old Kona from 96-99, 100mm fork and discs added.

Wozza and alpha your bikes look the business.

[img][url= http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8511/8537559268_d48547c0bb.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8511/8537559268_d48547c0bb.jp g"/> [/img][/url][/img]

OP - you should try a Charge skinny Duster, closest thing I've found that has more modern fittings for disks etc. to my early 90s Kona.
Feels very whippy and none too stiff, but I like that in a mountain bike.

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Here's my, probably not so posh, but still very enjoyable to ride, 97 FireMtn... with a P2 fork (Only DB, but AH steerer, with a disc mount), I acquired it almost two years ago now to use as my winter SS machine, due mostly to my memories of of my old fire mountain, it's done me proud.

19" frame, Short stem, Wide High rise bars, 2.3" front tyre, SS, it's every bit as good as I remember my old Fire mountain being in ~1995...

Except it is of course almost completely different that bike which was: 17" frame, Canti brakes (later Vs), 3x7 speed (gripshift/STX, Mmmmm) had a threaded fork and Quill stem (110mm "Velocity"? I think) with flat narrow bars and it all rolled about on crappy 1.9" tyres...

So apart from being completely different to the bike I remember, it's exactly the same!

I still need to sort a rear disc for it, not sure if I fancy having it re-welded with a mount, getting Sliders or Horizontal Dropout's put in or trying to just bodge an A2Z disc mount or some carbon and spoons, but it needs doing somehow really.

Very very very nice bike Gunz.

I loves me a Hei Hei.

Thanks you eye, I must take a more recent picture as, bar the frame, it's a proper Caesar's sword.

For me the 94-99 kona's were the best... Paint jobs/looks .. Just my opinion I had a few 🙂

This is my refurbished 95 cindercone used mostly on cafe run 🙂

[url= http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3719/11308872616_aafcfafa55_b.jp g" target="_blank">http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3719/11308872616_aafcfafa55_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/54931015@N07/11308872616/ ]Untitled[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/54931015@N07/ ]Plus one2010[/url], on Flickr

If you want it to ride like the Kona but away better go for a 100mm steel hard tail frame. Any more travel and it'll be just like your soul.

Enigma, 26" are long like the Kona, classic geo but 100mm up front and disc of course. Quick on the ST. A million times better than the Kona ever was to be honest - I've got both and more...

Here's another before and after of some late 90's skinny steel. Disc mount, cable guides swapped for hydro guides, canti bosses removed, respray with fork done to match.

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

cookeaa: Have a look at eccentric BBs, You might find something 2nd hand. I got lucky finding a Phil Wood one s/h. I thought about swapping the dropouts, but the work on the frame was already getting pricey, and it would have been a shame to loose the dinky Ritchey dropouts.

Dead happy with it, great to get back to razor sharp steering, and really enjoying it SS.

Do the uni-crown style seat stays create a less compliant ride? I would imagine they do, I remember my old P7 feeling much less 'zingy' than my splatterpaint 89 Explosif - which incidentally, has to be the vintage to look for with old Kona's?! Tange prestige, with Switchblade forks, it was a lovely bike.

No idea at all how the ride would be affected if you kept everything else exactly the same and used a different seatstay junction. But I wouldn't fancy my chances in a back to back test with a polysytrene block hiding the seatstay junction!

The advantage of the pierced seatstays was partly for strength, mostly for showing off framebuilding skillz and having a distinguishing feature.

As for compliance, on my first few goes on it I was amazed at how much it seemed to soak up bumps, and had me clicking up the gears and riding faster because it seemed to let me. I was coming from a Cannondale Beast of the East, so it wasn't really a comparison with anything similar!

Dekerf's are indeed works of art IMO. Love the new colour too.

The forks being the Cromoto's from your other thread NR? How fat a tyre will they take?

Apologies for slight thread hijack.

What a cracking thread! Absolutely lovely bikes, nice simple tubing, not oversize this or that or 'tapered' this or that.

I particularly like the red lava dome on page and the blue cinder cone on this page.

Well, I'll try and join in with the inspiration 😀 I don't have any pics of my splatter Explosif 🙁 , however, this is my new project build to be put together over the Xmas break. I'm very eager to find out how it rides and feels 😀

[img][URL= http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g456/Timb63/Bikes/IMG_0373.jp g" target="_blank">http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g456/Timb63/Bikes/IMG_0373.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL][/img]

And to give the Kinesis Virtue another shout… here's Mrs Slack's replacement for her stolen P7. She likes it 😀 So much so, that I have yet to have a spin on it.

[img][URL= http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g456/Timb63/Bikes/IMG_0250.jp g" target="_blank">http://i1102.photobucket.com/albums/g456/Timb63/Bikes/IMG_0250.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL][/img]

alice, there's 3&5/8" of clear air between the fork legs.

dannyh is right, the blue cinder cone on this page looks ace. 😀

[img] [/img]

Stop this thread now or I will start to regret it if the op takes my bizango off me!

@nedrapier & dannyh: cheers for the compliments. It's a great bike to ride and hold great sentimental value so it's awesome to be riding it again. I did the Welsh C2C on it in the summer and it performed brilliantly.

This was it back in the day. Fond memories...

[img] http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/download/file.php?id=152383 [/img]

Meet the "Ditch Magnet".

[img] [/img]

"I WILL KILL HIM"

[img] [/img]

I couldn't resist the Joe Murray love-in a moment longer..

Sorry for crap phone pic, lawn, weeds and pointing

[img] [/img]

Sorry turnerguy 🙂 I neeeeeeeeed some voodoo 🙂

Some lovely bikes. Got to admit just love the aesthetics let alone how they ride. Every single picture that's been posted you know is a hoot to ride!

Stunning pictures and bikes.

Alpha 1653 I've got a marine rift zone hanging in the garage 😀 new shock n it that's never been used. Another one of my brilliant buys. I'll keep it long enough to make me feel like I got some value from it....

Ha ha...the guy in that photo bought it with a pair of Pace RC36's and promptly removed them to be replaced by Z1's, a short Azomic pyramid stem and wide bars - the original free ride! I'm pretty sure he still has it in his garage.