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Seems we're getting closer to cycling being banned totally in the New Forest (again). Following the verderers only extending permission to cycle for one year this year (usually granted five years at a time) and only on the premise the Forestry Commission crack down on people riding off the limited gravel track 'network' (which doesn't connect up at all), they have now:
Engaged a private investigator to track a persistent offender.
Decided ebikes are too dangerous and are going to ban them.
Unbelievable. So glad I moved (just) out of the bloody place last year.
NIMBYs. They're everywhere.
That place is begging for a mass 2 wheel trespass kinderscout style
The article says the Police won't get involved because of data protection, i.e. no crime has been/is being committed? Trespass is a civil matter (with exceptions like Railway lines)?
If you trespass and cause no damage what can the landowner actually do?
Jump up and down on their peaked cap.
If you trespass and cause no damage what can the landowner actually do?
Set their ponies on you?
Cycling in the new forest is governed by bylaw, so you can be stopped, fined and bikes confiscated.
Come on covid you know you can do it.
If the police refuse to get involved, who is supposed to do the stopping, fining and confiscating?
If the police refuse to get involved, who is supposed to do the stopping, fining and confiscating?
Forestry Commission as they manage the inclosures. Obviously they don't want to. But verderers have only granted a one year licence for cycling in the national park this year to be revoked unless the FC get active on it.
Utter BS isn't it?
Hannah is spot on, in her recent piece for STW.
I've always thought that the economic argument helps. Contact hotels, restaurants etc to say that because of the verderers actions you're not intending to come and spend hundreds/ thousands of pounds with them.
you can be stopped, fined and bikes confiscated
Does this happen? If it does, who does the stopping, fining and confiscating? (I don't believe the FC would be able to confiscate property without Police assistance?).
Better places to ride. Go there occasionally but more for company of some very nice folk who live/ride over that way than the riding.
It's a rubbish situation though as it ought to be a fabulous place for family/inexperienced cycling.
Shame the verderers can't do more caring about the homicidal and incompetent buffoonery from drivers.
Missinformed, ignorant, self interested and predjudiced. The verderers are demonstrably incompetent. Locals despise them. They have needed to be removed from influence decades ago. Its time they went.
Last time this happened some 25 years ago they realised they’d also have to ban horse riding and there was uproar- literally marches on Lyndhurst.
The verderers actions are the social and sporting eqyivalent of racism. There is no parking on verges, no destruction to the ecosystem and i’ve barely ever seen people riding off piste. Given its mostly a working forest with churned ground from heavy plant, the verderers are exercising their political self interest agenda.
They clearly don’t have the confidence of the Forestry Commision or Police. They really do need to be removed and a better system of management implemented thats fit for purpose.
What a bunch of ****s.
Love that the cops told them to piss off because of "data protection", that old chestnut.
On a more serious note, are cycling UK involved yet?
I expect they'd love to wade into this one.
Does this happen? If it does, who does the stopping, fining and confiscating?
Having lived and ridden in New Forest for last 20 years I would say no. I have actually ridden by FC rangers sat in their pickups and said hello to them whilst riding where I am not supposed to be riding.
Better places to ride
All depends if you actually live there and ride from your door, in which case no there aren't. And if into riding a bit of road/gravel mix then it is a nice place to ride and I love it. The trick is to just ride early in the morning (which suits me) and I ride wherever I like and very rarely see other people.
New Forest is much like the rest of England to me, I like the place (countryside, history etc,.) but most of the people are a ****ers and need to be avoided.
I’ve always thought that the economic argument helps. Contact hotels, restaurants etc to say that because of the verderers actions you’re not intending to come and spend hundreds/ thousands of pounds with them.
It's the only way to get people who take our money to put pressure on people who don't want us there. Though it is vital that cyclists avoid any SSSI type areas where we really shouldn't be riding, and give them no ammunition
Sadly, I suspect the staycation boom means we are not needed this year anyway.
My temptation would be to just avoid it. Keep hearing it's not that great anyway.
surely only the police have power to take your bike - and even then it will be pretty dubious. anyone else tries its theft.
The New Forest is a wonderful place to ride a bike but paying any attention to anything the verderers say is like paying attention to Nigel Farage. It’s just irrelevant bigotry.
Antediluvian
What a bizarre place.
Englandshire? Yes it is 🙂
What a bizarre place.
Economics innit. A 'nice' area with an above average intolerant, elderly, comfortably retired population. They have time to spend wandering around looking for things to be offended by. They have the money, time and influence to be petty arseholes. And they love being petty arseholes.
The New Forest is a wonderful place to ride a bike but paying any attention to anything the verderers say is like paying attention to Nigel Farage. It’s just irrelevant bigotry.
I’d disagree on both points. The first is subjective: I don’t really like the place, it’s all rather flat and everywhere looks the same. But that’s by the by.
Unfortunately the Verderers aren’t irrelevant: they have power over the area. It’s why it took many years to get them to allow Ipley Cross to be modified when it was proven death trap: it is no hyperbole to say that they preferred people to be killed than to lose 72 square metres of grass.
Politically it’s an absolute time warp of a place which gives extraordinary power to people with attitudes that belong in the middle ages as well.
Unless the Verderers have authority to prosecute New Forest byelaws, like the RSPCA/Post Office etc, they are presumably totally reliant on someone that does in order to enforce their pettifogging and make sure miscreants like us are punished. The police appear to have told them to get stuffed, so not sure who that would be. The FC workers didn't sign up for that either, so a small army of Colonel Blimps would have to be gathered to harass cyclists, and they wouldn't have the authority to even ask for your details. Any attempt to seize a bike would be unlawful, normal trespass laws would apply.
Engaged a private investigator to track a persistent offender.
Presumably attempting to make some kind of example out of someone pour encourager les autres.
This is what happens when you give parish council types too much leeway and fancy titles.
I’ve always thought that the economic argument helps. Contact hotels, restaurants etc to say that because of the verderers actions you’re not intending to come and spend hundreds/ thousands of pounds with them.
I don't think this would work, from all their posts and hearing commoners ranting on facebook this would just make them happy. They don't want anyone else to be allowed to use the forest, they give some spiel about not wanting bikes for environmental reasons but you then see horse riders going through the heather where birds are nesting and farmers driving into the middle of the forest to feed their cattle turning everything to mud.
Economics innit. A ‘nice’ area with an above average intolerant, elderly, comfortably retired population. They have time to spend wandering around looking for things to be offended by. They have the money, time and influence to be petty arseholes. And they love being petty arseholes.
They are just the ones that shout the loudest. The village I live in is not like that at all.
It is however a Tory stronghold just like many other parts of the south but that is largely down to that elderly/retired population you mentioned.
I just put up with that as I love living and riding here.
I'd love to batter through there on an ebike, see what actually happens.
Hiya,
I was thinking if the police don't want to get involved and I cannot blame them, then it will just result in some angry irate gammons being ignored. I then remembered the new criminal justice Bill and amendments for trespass and turning it into a criminal offence. It is at the moment if local bylaws exist I believe. Any how's it's beginning to look quite dangerous. I think the only way to really get our voices heard is civil disobedience and mass trespass. It makes the politicians realize that the majority are wanting access.
You're right though NIMBY's are everywhere... Quite frankly angry grumpy people that thrive on the misery they cause to others. I love winding them up to be honest I kinda sickly hope they explode with hate... 🙄
JeZ
Do not expect the Verderers to have any supportive view of cyclists. It is not in their interests. The job of the Verderers is solely to protect and represent the interests of commoners and their livestock. They are however just one of three entities with a 'say' in how the Forest is operated. Forestry Commission is one (who only care about the business aspects) and the National Park that deals with encouraging tourism and visitors. This creates an unwinnable battle that will rage for ever.
I have personally known (quite well), two of the most recent Official Verderers (ie the head bods), and they had differing views on the subject. One was quite balanced and progressive whwreas the other only cared about livestock and commoners and would happily go around hunting cyclists if he were allowed (both off road and on). His genuine preference would be to kick all visitors out the Forest.
All good fun... Does it stop me riding on the Forest... Nope. Just mindful of where I ride I ride and treat all horsists and walkers as they have more rights than you (which they do). Act like a self-entitled cycling nazi and the wheels will fall off your ride very quickly.
Fair enough fella, each to their own. Maybe I’m biased because I grew up there but it’s still one of my favourite places in the world to be outside.
The Ipley example is a good one but i would argue that’s an example more of (failure of) responsibility than power. In 40 years of being in and around the Forest and having ridden my bike (responsibly), I’ve never met a Verderer or had any direct experience of their “power”. The point I was making is that just because someone today has reported the minutes of one of their incoherent, echo-chamber meetings, doesn’t mean tomorrow they will attain the magical powers to steal my Stormchaser. You know?
While my daughter was at university in Bournemouth i enjoyed due a few gravel rides on the new forest. What I learnt on here was that it's massively over grazed. Once I've been told that it's blindingly obvious. Makes the whole thing even more ridiculous. Bike damage is as far I can see non existent. Horse damage is every where
Apparently they are now going to change the subsidy system
You seriously don't think this lot (verderers court) have the interests of a modern society at heart, just look at them
If I lived there I would ride there and simply tell anyone who told me I couldn't where to go and to sue me.
You seriously don’t think this lot (verderers court) have the interests of a modern society at heart, just look at them
I notice most have their hands hidden, so you can’t count their fingers 🤣
You seriously don’t think this lot (verderers court) have the interests of a modern society at heart, just look at them
Is that Rees-Mogg in the red top?
I rode a fantastic gravel section of the forest between Fordingbrideg - New Milton a while back, all on legit sections, it's a great area to explore by bicycle. It has so much bicycle potential, it's a shame that the dinosaurs are in charge.
Christ, even for a bunch of old white folk, that picture lacks diversity.
Is that Rees-Mogg in the red top?
They would never let Rees-Mogg in, he is more 19th century that 13th century.
Looking at that picture I reckon the most effective form of protest would be a trespass bike ride wearing burkas.
The aftermath would probably resemble something from mid-80s Johannesburg.
I dunno, maybe if you made them feel included in the whole thing...
@ampthill I was about to post about it being massively overgrazed, having read the same Guardian article.
I assume they can’t ban road bikes?
I assume they can’t ban road bikes?
I reckon they'd give it a shot if you 'ruined' the wrong person's view or held them up in their Range Rover.
Does it help to just think of it as Feudalism World, a really unsuccesful theme park?
Anyone got a good route(s) in the New Forest that isn’t gravel? Not fussed by the legality’s, if I can upset a Verderer that would be a bonus.
Anyone got a good route(s) in the New Forest that isn’t gravel?
No defined route but start from Burbush car park, cross the road and keep going and you will have single/double track until you get to A35, go through under pass and many more miles of singles track. You have to find it really as it is not defined as not supposed to be riding on it.
And don't go too fast other wise you will knock me out of the top 10 on most of the segments 🙂
I assume they can’t ban road bikes?
No, they can't ban people from riding on the roads, just the forestry tracks (although they are not fully in control of them and would need to be a joint decision)
Riding on just the roads in pretty horrible though as most of them are 40mph limit which means drivers are typically doing nearer 50mph. Drivers passing too close (because a lot of the roads are not that wide) at 50mph does not really make for a nice ride which I why I ride mostly on the gravel roads.
Englandshire? Yes it is
Richard Head? Yes you are 🙂
Richard Head? Yes you are 🙂
Is he wrong though? Your access laws are frankly archaic and the New Forest takes that to a whole other level. I don't see what was so contentious about his comment.
I assume they can’t ban road bikes?
There were calls in the verders court minutes a few years back to ban cycling on some roads in the forest. Hampshire Highways soon put them straight on their responsibilities.
This was all to do with the Wiggle sportives which used to start from Brockenhurst. They had to change after the commoners scheduled their drifts (pony roundups) to coincide with the wiggle events, and then blamed wiggle for disrupting hundreds-year-old practices.
And the route was sabotaged with tacks which caused crashes which hospitalised some participants
The verderes scheduled the pony round up for the same day deliberately, because they are cocks
Alot of nonsense about working forests and livelihood hoods wjen its trees that stand all alone for 20 years then get torn down by massive machinery destroying all the habitat
Or its ned who rents a cottage in tje middle of nowhere for £222 a month who had a couple of pony and cows
Then a shed load of stock brokers from London who biy in and run a tea shop, or their wife does who want to maintain the exclusivity and bleat on about living history having lived there for a few years
As i've already said... there a triangle of power that controls the New Forest. The Forestry Commission don't really care either way about cyclists as long as they don't fall off any logs. The National Park are the ones that should be 'pro cycling' as they are ones who are promoting visitation to the Forest. The Verderers have absolutely ZERO interest in ANYONE other than commoners and their livestock on the Forest and it therefore their duty to be as obstructive as possible to ANYTHING that could have a negative impact on this.
Do not expect a balance pro-cycling attitude from the Verderers, but on the flip side, you are unlikely to end up in their poncy court in Lyndhurst... they reserve that for 'Neds' who don't know how to look after their ponies.
The National Park are the ones that should be ‘pro cycling’ as they are ones who are promoting visitation to the Forest
That's a very hopeful "should", eh?
I get the distinct impression that some other National Parks (ones with actual mountains) don't really care about bikes or are actively hostile to them at leadership level anyway.
Engaged a private investigator to track a persistent offender.
I'm Spartacus!
Commoners, verderers court. Just want to check what century we’re in and also propose it gets renamed Ye Olde Forest. Reading this thread makes me want to go ride there and just be obscenely pleasant to everyone whilst I ride wherever I like.