New Cotic Solarismax

Ouch , that is a significant increase. I'm glad I bought an Smax before they stopped production . It's all very well saying making frames in Czechia cut carbon miles in transport but I suspect more people will be looking at price rather than green credentials 

I personally think that it is absurd pricing, must be approaching "custom" money. If you are really worried about carbon footprint you either buy second hand or keep riding the bike you have. 

Buying from Eastern Europe and saying it reduces carbon impact may be true, but I suspect it is more of a feel good factor than anything truly impactful. Would be interested to see the figures for both, rather than press release fluff.

I imagine that the biggest reduction to carbon output will be selling far fewer of them..... 

Wow... gone from 950 to 1200?

And duty on top for EU customers? Or will frames ship from Czech?

To save other people having to look. £1200 for a frame

I’ve been meaning to post about this. I kept thinking it was a mistake. Hugely more than a BFe or even a Cascade frame and fork. It also jumps the Fairlight Holt and is about the same as the titanium Broken road.

As I’m looking, very vaguely, at a bike not a frame the % jump is smaller

However the change back to being a Solaris probably makes it even more special. It also gets rack mounting on the drop outs

I remember looking up the amount of carbon needed to ship things. It was less than I thought. It’s obviously much more important for food which I buy daily rather than a bikes where I might have for 10 years

At the frequency I buy bikes I'm not really bothered how far they travel to get here. It makes sod all difference to anything.

I'm a previous Cotic owner but they've long since gone exotic with their pricing.

Blimey, that makes Santa Cruz look cheap! Twice the price of my 853 framed Pace.

That's really jumped in price. I believe the Holt is made in Europe too but squeaks in at 999 (for now). You can get a Curtis for a few hundred more. I love the look and idea of the new Solaris but it's way out of my league. Be interesting to see the new pace, and of it's an xc machine, also possibly made in Europe...

Crikey I remember lusting after a hl turner flux and thinking £1295 was outrageous

“And duty on top for EU customers? Or will frames ship from Czech?”

If it’s made in the EU then there will be no duty, however many times it goes between the UK and an EU country, or vice versa.

Depends on a few things, if painted in UK, etc, it might still attract duty

Was interested in this for ages and been waiting for pictures etc. I'm sure they were originally due October, then November, now next year.  I'm sure they were £800 ish when announced as well. Price is a bit of a jump too far for me, RC259 would get my money now if they did a nice colour.

There's a new 'something' from Pace due this month and allegedly a Sherpa gen4 on its way,  it'll be interesting how they are pitched price wise, this could seem reasonable but I doubt it.

“Depends on a few things, if painted in UK, etc, it might still attract duty”

It doesn’t matter what is done to it, as long as that work is mostly done in the UK or EU, however many times it goes back and forth and however many locations the work is done in. That’s how the (utterly rubbish) free trade agreement works.

Well, regardless of 4, 14 or 0 per cent duty, 1200 is a non starter for me. A near 30% price hike just seems kind of outrageous, moreso in the current market. 

£1200 for a steel hardtail frame, **** off! That's bloody ridiculous.

Crikey.

You can get a Kingdom bike Vendetta X3 for just £99 more at the moment. I know what I would choose.

Not saying they're the same offering exactly, but compared to 700 for a Taiwanese Sherpa or 1k for a UK Sherpa it's definitely steep.

Ide rather have a Marley 290/big al bth at nearly 90 per cent less. Maybe Cotic are struggling to stay in business...

Does seem a tad steep. I was thinking of either a Cotic or Pipedream this year and actually pre-ordered the Pipedream but delays have put paid to that and the price for the Cotic has as well TBH.
I have now ordered a custom made steel frame, built in the UK for just a sniff over £1000 with geo tweaks and none of the stuff I don't need or want such as 10,000 mounting points to bolt my kitchen sink on😁

I'm a cotic fanboy, I own 2 and I've owned, uh, 8 I think? Great bikes, great company to deal with but £1200 for an off the peg steel hardtail, lol, no.

I’ve always been a fan too, although for various reasons I’ve never actually bought one. I was seriously after a Jeht a couple of years ago when I got an insurance payout for my old bike being stolen, but I ended up with nearly a grand more if I spent it at Tredz, so my money went on a brand available there instead. I then decided I’d get one of their hardtails, and nearly got a BFE when they were selling them cheap a while ago - but I actually wanted a Solaris so decided to save up. Now it’s got way too much for me, especially as there are great deals around at the moment on other brands.

I’m a cotic fanboy, I own 2 and I’ve owned, uh, 8 I think? Great bikes, great company to deal with but £1200 for an off the peg steel hardtail, lol, no.

I'm the same as you, had multiple Cotic bikes over the years and absolutely loved them but that's crazy expensive for what it is. 

https://singularcycles.com/products/swift-steel

It’s a big increase, which is a shock to the system but based on inflation over the last few years, va the bread and butter in your cupboard it is a steal! Compare it to the Fairlight Holt for example.

On the other hand it makes their full suspension bikes look remarkable value

Plus, that amount of drillium to make it lighter (or are they just lots of mounting points?) can’t come cheap. I would rather have one slightly cheaper with just the normal amount of bottle mounts that also look better. For me that’s a much bigger turn off than the price

I'm reserving judgement till we see actual photos but it does seem steep. I was thinking of a Solaris as I couldn't justify a Holt 🙁 but now no idea. The worry being this might be a sign of things to come in the industry.

200 extra on top of a swift, for 853, and made in Europe, it's not awful.

It does make the Holt look good value.

Go and look how much a mason raw is

Go and look how much a mason raw is

£1695

Love Cotic, but nah, sorry.

When comparing with the swift, worth remembering that comes with a fork! Pretty sure they're Taiwanese made.

Compared to a UK made options like a Shand Bahookie or even a similar Solaris frame if it were made by 5 Land bikes, the Czechia built option from Fort does look good value.  I think that it's just that we've become accustomed to Taiwanese mass production/lower wages, whereas this is a bit more realistic and is a lot closer to an artisan product.  You pays your money, takes your choice.  This must be such a tricky challenge for the smaller firms at the moment, especially as the likes of Cotic are offering a broad range of custom builds.  You have to stand out to get the sales, both in terms of niche and quality.

PS I love my 2018 Solaris max; it's such a do-everything bike. That frame probably cost me around £600(?), I forget.

I picked up a Solaris Max a couple years ago for £680 with a headset and I was treating myself. I thought that was quite pricy then. £1200 is a bizar price. I can get a custom 853 frame from £1300 UK made. Recently picked up a BFe Max in the sale for £450 with a headset and thought that was a bargain. Not sure how this can be almost 3x more.

I don't associate Eastern Europe with quality and exotica either, but rather heavy industry using cheap steel. Lots of rusty cars have come out of that region.

I've had 5 Cotics, so class myself as a fan, but this is just a weird direction in my opinion. Wish them all the best! A Rocket Max is still on my list (and looks better value compared to the Solaris).

I picked up a Stooge Speedbomb last week- thats £820 for frame & fork! Complicated frame design, EBB & double crown fork. Sure it's only 4130 cromo, but that is a bit of a brgain in comparison.

PS I love my 2018 Solaris max; it’s such a do-everything bike. That frame probably cost me around £600(?), I forget.

Yeah I had one around then, think it was £650ish?

Double that is rather ambitious, to say the least.

Cotic make great bikes but they've usually been for normal riders, not the kind of ponces who buy the expensive brands mentioned in comparison above.

The email suggested this move to European building was because Taiwan couldn't deliver. This might sound harsh, but that falls into "not my problem".

Yet people will be dumb enough to put their orders in, continuing the rip off that is the bike industry, the bubble will burst and greed will be the culprit.

Yeah I had one around then, think it was £650ish?

i paid 600 then but that was minus vat.

They were a great frame… apart from the seet stay issues, but the paintwork wasn’t the best. I hope they have that sorted at such a price.

Not too far off curtis prices there. I know which I'd have if I was looking in that cost bracket. But I'd probably end up with a holt, or nordest and change.

Yet people will be dumb enough to put their orders in, continuing the rip off that is the bike industry, the bubble will burst and greed will be the culprit.

Harsh. With regard your comment and others, I can't imagine Cy is pricing this based on being greedy, he must realise this is a big leap in price and he'll know that its going to be a limiting factor for customers but I'm sure he'll have worked the figures to get the cost low as possible whilst sufficient to keep his business viable.

Too pricey for me which is a shame as a former cotic owner though

I wonder if making them in Czechia will make sense for Cotic at the moment as the minimum order is probably far less than ordering a batch from the far east. Less stock to hold and less risk at a time when everyone is over stocked.

But I’d probably end up with a holt, or nordest and change.

For those that are looking... Nordest have a sale at the moment, Bardino is down to €599. Great price if they have your size. It's Taiwan built and 4130 throughout though, so cheaper than a BFeMAX in terms of cost to manufacture. Building in Europe costs more. 853 costs more. Oh, Taiwan built BFeMAX is still a thing by the way, so that's where to look for a more affordable Cotic frame. Cotic are now having frames manufactured in Taiwan, UK and Czechia, depending on model, and each model is priced based on the costs involved.

What am I missing with this, why is it priced so high compared to relatively similar offerings from other brands?

I can buy a Orange P7 29er frame for £650 or a Pace RC529 made out of 853 for £682 (£582 atm). What's so special about the Cotic to make it nearly twice the price?

Has anybody seen one set? are there any pics?

it's interesting to read the posts above, as there's clearly a lot of respect for Cotic and what they've done. I've reflected on my earlier post and I'm still interested to see what it's going to be like. I do really want a nice steel hardtail and this was high on the list. It wasn't perfect as i'm not a fan of all the bosses on it and the BB looks a little too low for my tastes (on paper anyway), but for the price I would have been happy to compromise.

Jumping a price bracket (or two) does alter the competition though now. I understand Cy and the team will always try and be competitive in the market and I think this is a reflection of where things are going. I'm sure it will be a brilliant bike for those who are happy to pay the money.

I wish I'd never sold my pre Longshot Solaris Max ...

At the frequency I buy bikes I’m not really bothered how far they travel to get here. It makes sod all difference to anything

If it was just the one bike that you're buying then yes, you may have a point, but it's also all the other bikes that everyone else buys as well which makes the difference

The email suggested this move to European building was because Taiwan couldn’t deliver. This might sound harsh, but that falls into “not my problem”

That may be true, but a company that exists to sell stuff, doesn't - if it can't get stock to sell. I'm mates with most of the Cotic guys and I know they've lost a lot of business by having to ask customers who want a bike and have the money there, ready and waiting to sit on it an unpredictable amount of time that may a month, maybe 6, or more.

I also believe Taiwan costs have gone up - not entirely un reasonable that they want to have a decent standard of living too. I think the next option would be China for "cheap", but ethically/morally dubious.

RE other companies doing the Taiwan frame thing - it's cyclical, I think - prices for each manufacturer change when they start selling a new batch of frames. It just so happens to fall that Cotic are the first and most visible in this particular round of increases. I'd be expecting all the other co's to be racking up the prices when they all have new batches land - but they might not shout about it so much. It might not be quite as much as Cotic have done to get the Euro production, but it won't be far off - Cy wouldn't have made that decision if it wasn't viable.

I've just had a look at the Curtis site - £1550 for an XC9. so 30% more.

In other news, my local bakery does The. Best. pain au chocolat. Heavenly, dreamy, best pastry I've ever had. Pre Covid they were £1.50. Now they're £3.20. My pay hasn't changed at all and I can only justify them extremely rarely now, but they still sell all they can make. Moral of the story - in this day and age - good stuff, done right, costs.

Moral of the story – in this day and age – good stuff, done right, costs.

yup, I think that's about right really. Everybody (including me) has to re-evaluate the value of the pound in there pocket and where there priorities lie.

Moral of the story – in this day and age – good stuff, done right, costs.

A £3.20 cake isn't comparable to a £1200 frame. People will still buy the cake from time to time. They'll just stop buying expensive bikes full stop. As can be seen with the state of the bike industry now.

I thought the Solaris was expensive when it went up to £800 ish.
I own an older Solaris and a £1600+ Mason Raw. The Mason is made in the UK and it's design, detail and finish is several leagues better than the Cotic. The Cotics are great bikes, and probably ride as well as the Mason, but I still see them as a semi-budget bike; still made where labour is cheaper*

*Apart from the Five Land bikes of course

I need to look after my 2017 Solaris max well then. Really good buying experience with test loops on different sizes riding proper trails out from the old Calver HQ, was able to pick up the frame with a hope headset fitted and all faced.

It's been a really good bike, it has done a lot of local peak district trails, Wales, lakes and further. It's been round various trail centers and even a bit of road and gravel esque stuff.

Great for bikepacking including the jenn ride 3 times and other grips.

Here it is today in winter mode on a very wet, rocky climb up Blacka moor

chakapingFree Member
Cotic make great bikes but they’ve usually been for normal riders, not the kind of ponces who buy the expensive brands mentioned in comparison above.

Shand, stooge and swift mentioned, which are you referring to?

RE other companies doing the Taiwan frame thing – it’s cyclical, I think – prices for each manufacturer change when they start selling a new batch of frames. It just so happens to fall that Cotic are the first and most visible in this particular round of increases. I’d be expecting all the other co’s to be racking up the prices when they all have new batches land – but they might not shout about it so much. It might not be quite as much as Cotic have done to get the Euro production, but it won’t be far off – Cy wouldn’t have made that decision if it wasn’t viable.

Which is all fine but doesn't explain why Cotic have decided to charge almost double their competition for a similar frame. Others might go up when new models arrive but it won't be to anything like £1200!

£1200 for a European made frame designed by someone who knows what they are doing when it comes to UK style riding that is going to be low volume compared to the Trek/Giants of the cycling world doesn't sound that bad to me.

I have a Cotic Cascade, made in the far east and it rides brilliantly, if the Solaris is as good and I've no doubt it will be I'd have no qualms about spending that money.

You'd end up with a well designed and fairly exclusive (and lets face it we all want something a bit different from what everyone else has) frame that perfectly matches the trails we ride on every weekend

Shand, stooge and swift mentioned, which are you referring to?

Haha, thought that might trigger people.  I was thinking of Mason and Fairlight. Maybe Shand.

Stooges are for former singlespeeders who need to feel special now that they're using gears again, and I didn't realise Swift were still going.

Swift are taking preorders and are back, as above £999 including forks. 

£1200 for a European made frame designed by someone who knows what they are doing when it comes to UK style riding that is going to be low volume compared to the Trek/Giants of the cycling world doesn’t sound that bad to me.

Do they know what they're doing any better than Pace or Orange? Since when has an Eastern European built frame been a desirable option?

Do they know what they’re doing any better than Pace or Orange? Since when has an Eastern European built frame been a desirable option?

Have Pace actually made anything worth having since the RC200? And the Orange hardtails are nothing special, I've had 3 of them, just generic reasonably good hardtails that have been around for ages. Be interesting to see the price of any new model though 

Cascade was £719 without the fork when I bought mine, now its £819 without the fork. Thats £400 difference to the Solaris, just for being made in eastern europe! The Cascade was too much really, but I got it and the carbon Salsa fork on bike to work scheme so was ok... I don't think I'd be able to justify the Solaris at £1200.

Good few years ago I know, but I had a mk2 Solaris, which I wish I'd never sold, but I think I paid £385 or something for the frame and a Hope headset! Reduced as it was about the last one they had.

You guys wishing you'd never sold your old Solarises, get on eBay and get one cheap now.

I sometimes feel like that about my mk2 (which I bought from an STWer and sold to a different one), but now I do the same riding on my lovely steel gravel bike - which was less than £1,200 for the full bike 😉

@chakaping - I've got the Cascade now, set up with flat bars. Its pretty much what the old solaris was, albeit rigid rather than a HT. If I'd kept the mk2 Solaris I wouldn;t have bought the Cascade.

Cascade is great BTW.

Taiwanese mass production/lower wages, whereas this is a bit more realistic and is a lot closer to an artisan product.

fabricators in taiwan aren’t paid badly. it isn’t a 3rd world country. 

i lived in CZ in the 90’s. i’m pretty sure fort bikes were about at that time (happy to be corrected on that). i don’t think they are any more artisan than 5 land bikes. 

rOcKeTdOg
Full Member
£1200 for a European made frame designed by someone who knows what they are doing when it comes to UK style riding that is going to be low volume compared to the Trek/Giants of the cycling world doesn’t sound that bad to me.

Yeah, but "£800 for a Taiwan made frame designed by someone who knows what they are doing when it comes to UK style riding that is going to be low volume compared to the Trek/Giants of the cycling world" sounds lot better

I don't think "made in Czech" has all that much appeal.

@chakaping – I’ve got the Cascade now, set up with flat bars. Its pretty much what the old solaris was, albeit rigid rather than a HT. If I’d kept the mk2 Solaris I wouldn;t have bought the Cascade.

Nice, I think I've seen your pics of it on here before actually?

And +1 on the "rather have a Taiwanese one for a more reasonable price"

We've all obviously got a lot of respect and goodwill toward Cotic, but I'll be surprised if this price sticks.

Just repeating what I said before... Cotic still has frames built in Taiwan... hardtail wise that means the BFeMAX*. Should Cotic only have frames built in Taiwan? If price is all, and nothing else matters, then you may say yes. Diversifying and also building in Europe (including the UK) is a long term plan that's been rolling out over many years now... and it's happening for many reasons. A supply chain that is wholly dependent on Taiwan just doesn't make sense to any of us at Cotic any more... but we're still working with the factory there... there's lots more to come.

[ EDIT: *oh and more BFe soon as well, for those still wanting to rag 275 wheels ]

Eastern European built frame been a desirable option

Czechia is in central europe, like germany.  they have traditionally been great engineers. their steel and turbines were/are the best in europe, if not the world.

not sure if this thread has been running long enough to mention the nazis, but one of the reasons for them invading czechoslovakia was to gain access to the heavy engineering and gun manufacturing abilities.

@kelvin - is there any proof that a European welder creates a better bike using the same tubes than a Taiwanese welder?

Otherwise, the benefits from supply chain really only benefit Cotic, not the consumer, if you exclude the ESG benefits. I guess the ultimate choice is that provided by Stanton where they have/had a choice between Far East and locally produced bikes at different price points. Then you let the consumer decide.

Judging by the comments on here, Cotic built their reputation on good value great riding Taiwanese bikes. Your consumers will decide whether the new pricing and sourcing model works, but you have moved the Solarismax from one price and quality category (circa £600) to a very different one (circa £1200) which brings other competitors into your consumers' buying decision that might not previously considered them.

Other than from an ESG perspective, is there a tangible reason why a consumer should pay extra for an EU built bike?

Local/EU build premium is understandable for a custom product, but not for a mass produced product. The Cotic full suspension bikes stack up very competitively vs the competition in terms of price. The hardtails do not. It feels like a very inconsistent approach to pricing architecture (unless of course this is the trojan horse ahead of the full sussers increasing in price too).

Local/EU build premium is understandable for a custom product, but not for a mass produced product.

Why? Should everything be built the other side of the world if it's not a one off?

If "ESG" doesn't matter to you, that's your call. If everyone takes that approach, and cost is all that matters, than even Taiwan bike production makes no sense, and all brands will shift to China (many "premium" brands already have).

The last decade has shown us multiple reasons for a company like Cotic not to only build and ship from a single very distant location... and who dares guess what the next decade will bring. Rising prices in Taiwan, for sure. More shipping accidents? Pandemics? Currency swings? Local political turmoil? Diversifying supply chains makes sense to us when thinking longer term, beyond just "ESG". Cotic isn't in it just for the short term.

I repeat again though, Cotic still has hardtails built in Taiwan, just not this one model.

@solarider has pretty much written what I'd have responded to kelvin there(minus my typos and with a degree of eloquence added)

Rising prices in Taiwan, for sure. More shipping accidents? Pandemics? Currency swings? Local political turmoil? Diversifying supply chains makes sense to us when thinking longer term, beyond just “ESG”.

How do any of those benefit ride quality? As I said, all benefits to Cotic rather the consumer. You are expecting your consumer to pay more for the same because of your sourcing decisions. Bold move.

On the upside, your full sussers suddenly look even better value.

Feels like I am having a pop. Not the case. As a former Cotic owner, you make great bikes!

Building a sustainable, flexible and more responsive supply chain, which also ensures and builds on the quality of the product, is about taking the long term view. Knowing that the company you buy a bike from is thinking that way might not matter, beyond knowing the support will extend well beyond the initial purchase of a bike, everyone has to make that call.

But, again, Taiwanese production goes on. The next batch of BFe are finished and well be with us real soon, and Escapades are next in Taiwan... both have been seriously delayed though, which has been difficult for customers waiting. A shorter closer supply chain is good for customers too. Our relationship with Fiveland in Scotland for example hasn't just been good for us, it's been great for customers too.

Diversifying and also building in Europe (including the UK) is a long term plan that’s been rolling out over many years now… and it’s happening for many reasons. A supply chain that is wholly dependent on Taiwan just doesn’t make sense to any of us at Cotic any more… but we’re still working with the factory there… there’s lots more to come.

This makes sense.
While initially the benefit may be towards Cotic, I can see long term how a move to manufacture closer to where bikes are sold, and having multiple suppliers could well benefit customers.
There is however a price to pay initially....

kelvin

Our relationship with Fiveland in Scotland for example hasn’t just been good for us, it’s been great for customers too.

But didn't Fiveland delivere those benefits without the 30/40% price rise?

"If ESG doesn't matter to you" is all well, but the extra 400 quid matters to everyone. And a BFe may be Cotic's hardtail alternative, but it's a pretty different bike, and other alternatives (Pipedream Sirius, etc) are probably what they will turn to.

All UK full-suss frames carry a premium over the Taiwan made ones. The premium isn't a % one though, it's a fixed one based entirely on the additional cost of manufacturing the front end, and finishing the whole frame. The rear end is still Taiwan built.

And that’s the challenge I guess with the Solarismax. With no shock or rear end, the entirety of the EU production premium is applied to the frame whereas it is a lesser part of the overall cost of a full susser.
Tough times and I applaud your approach. Just don’t be surprised if cash strapped consumers don’t consider that the ethical premium is worth it, or choose something else. I know that time moves on and it might be an outdated perception that you are looking to change but it would appear that Cotic resides in consumers’ minds as a £600 Taiwanese bargain rather than a £1,200 artisan work of art.
All very easy to say as an armchair expert, and I am sure behind closed doors you all agonised about the price increase. Nobody does that lightly. I am sure if you could offer an EU built £600 hardtail you would!

I guess the ultimate question is that if you can still make the BFe in Taiwan with all of the drawbacks you have outlined, why not the Solarismax too? Surely the same reasons for the EU being a better location also apply to the BFe along with your rear ends. Seems like you are happy with that contradiction. Or are we facing the last hurrah of the Far Eastern BFe and rear ends……

Well, that's why Cotic still make hardtails in Taiwan, just not this one.

People will still buy the cake from time to time. They’ll just stop buying expensive bikes full stop. As can be seen with the state of the bike industry now.

Unlike the cake, which has been eaten, your previous bike still exists. And that may be part of the problem, combined with the post-covid slump - what does this Solaris give me that your or my current hardtail does not?

I've been at this mtbing game for about a decade. The first half of that was a proper arms race of notable and exciting performance upgrades. Wheel sizes, head and seat angles, dropper posts going from curiosity to near-mandatory, 1x gears; along with all the confusing standards and details that allowed these things to happen.

The second half however, not a huge amount has changed.... except the price*.

My two bikes are a 2020 full sus (bought 2021) and a 2017 hardtail (bought 2019). I can't see how any current "equivilent" bike makes a massive improvement, apart from my full sus having an unfashionably small front wheel they are all pretty much up to date, at least from an average practical user's point of view.

*not going to blame any of the bike industry players for this. Covid demand, evergiven supply and brexit tax/exchange rate have combined to shaft the british bike consumer. I'll guess that Cy is having the same number of lobster dinners and using the same number of £50 notes as napkins as he did in 2019 - none.

My personal hardtail is from 2018, and my full suss from 2016. You don't have to keep changing your bike every few years (although 2024 is likely to be when my full suss changes for me)... that's true even without the inflation and industry changes of the past 5 or so years. And there's plenty of clearance stock out there if you do have to get a new bike and your budget is tight... especially if you're happy with 10 speed and the older damper technology of the previous decade, and can do without the geom progression. The bike industry as a whole really isn't out to screw us... and that's even more true of the smaller independent brands. I take the fact that in the main (ignoring freehub bodies and electronic gears) things have settled down compatibility wise as a positive thing... it means more reuse. You can buy a new bike when it offers you ride advantages, or you simply fancy it, not because of chasing changing "standards".

When the new Solaris was announced in December 2022 the frame only price was £849. I'm assuming that Taiwan prices have (conservatively( risen 10% ish percent in the past year, so that would take an ex Taiwan frame closer to £949.

I can see why moving production to Europe makes sense, especially if you want to expand sales in the EU, as it does away with import tariffs for both UK and EU sales.

It's a bit spendy, but wouldn't put me off considering it, but then I'm a fully paid up cotic fanboy.

The sad fact is that the price of virtually everything has gone through the roof in the past three years (see yeti frame prices for example)

things have settled down compatibility wise as a positive thing

Amen.

Like I said at the start would recommend to anyone for the same style of riding as me. 👍

I have the solution everyone. Instead of making them in Czechia, bring the whole production to scotland. Might seem impossible, since five lands are already pretty much flat out- but that's the genius part, they're just along the road from me, so I'll do the welding on the budget option frames. It'll save a fortune. And we don't have to worry about warranty returns because everyone who rides one will die in a fireball

Well, 10 years ago I paid a bit over a grand for a steel frameset that's still doing well so it's been great value.
The Solaris could be a similar bike for me as I always liked shorter travel XC bikes with that kind of approach to geometry. It's not cheap but +£300 for the right frame wouldn't be make or break if I saw long term value in it. Would be my pick for that kind of bike anyway.

Hmm, some of my replies make no sense after the posts they were replying to were edited to remove the questions/points I was replying to. Ah well, never mind. I’ll include the quotes in future, lesson learnt.

What colour is that one Dan? I don’t recognise it.

Ancedotally, from being at a Cotic demo day a year or two ago, I didn't get the impression that the other people there would give a damn whether their frame costs £850 or £1200. The amount of T5s, Audis, Rab jackets etc. there.