Saw a post on Cotic’s FB earlier about a new bike called the Cascade, kind of a drop bar MTB/bike packing bike but seems to have disappeared now before I could read it on their site in full no sign of it anywhere now?! Looked mint though, look forward to seeing it properly!!
https://www.trademarkelite.com/uk/trademark/trademark-detail/UK00003553951/Cascade
You weren’t imagining things
Looks like a teaser on social that it’ll be released tomorrow…
Is it like a Genesis Vagabond ?
I’m guessing something like a Vagabond or Kona Sutra Ltd, so 29 x 2.3 clearance, dropper post compatible, fairly slack and a thousand frame bosses for frame bags, fork racks and top tube bags. But just a guess.
Looks nice....anyone want to buy my kidney
Noice 😊
There are a shitload of photos here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/coticltd/albums/72177720296229085
And (by the looks of it) development stuff here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/coticltd/albums/72157713723722201
Oh, that looks nice
Looks great if you live somewhere with amazing trails
Damn you Cotic......👌
Looks great if you live somewhere with amazing trails
Not true! I use mine most for hour or so rolls around the local bridleways and lanes. All those trails near my house that were written off years ago as too dull on a Rocketmax or having too much road to link them up. Perfect on the Cascade. It's brilliant for making less than stellar local trails engaging and fun.
It's a bit of a balancing act though, you need sufficient offroad to justify this over an Escapade or similar. I'm o 700x45c tyres on my gravel bike, and I'd need a whole other landscape to make bgger tyres than that a good idea, but that sort of offroad quickly becomes hardtail MTB territory where you're better off on a Solaris.
I think I know the sort of trails Cy is talking about; short blasts of suburban singletrack and smooth woodland trails with a scattering of roots.
There’s loads of them on the fringes of west Sheffield and exactly the reason I bought my Sutra Ltd, you can run fast rolling but higher volume tyres (got WTB Nine Lines in 2.25 at the moment) which make those same trails a lot of fun.
If I didn’t already have the Sutra I’d be putting myself down for one of these for sure.
@ElShalimo Not yet, but we are aiming to by end of Feb. If you're not already, sign up to our newsletter email list at www.cotic.co.uk/contact. You'll hear about that (and a lot of other things) there first.
tuboflard
I think I know the sort of trails Cy is talking about; short blasts of suburban singletrack and smooth woodland trails with a scattering of roots.
Yeah, not saying they don't exist, just it's a fairly specific niche - choice is a good thing though. I'm fortunate enough to have a (Cotic 🙂 )hardtail and a gravel bike, I don't find myself needing this in between - it's too offroad for where I use the gravel bike 95% of the time, and for me drop bars are to much of a compromise for where I ride the hardtail (although it's very pretty and shiny and I certainly wouldn't refuse one if offered)
Nice location for the promo vid 👌
(My local trails 😁)
@honourablegeorge There's definitely overlap, but I find it's the geometry in particular that it limiting for offroad jaunts with something like the Escapade with 650x47 tyres. It's great on the road and on dirt roads, but anything too much bumpier and it gets quite unhappy. The Cascade is way more confidence inspiring, but with that drop bar, multiple hand position comfort for long days too. The SolarisMAX has Longshot geometry, so whilst with XC tyres it would spin along quite nicely on everything the Cascade would, it's actually way more capable than that with a little more chunk on the rubber, so it just depends on what you want your 'other' bike to be. For me with a RocketMAX as my main bike, I don't want another mountain bike, and the Cascade offers more versatiility and a different kind of ride feel.
Loving the colours and it's great to see something different, but for me I reckon the Escapade is perhaps a tad more versatile than this and lighter to boot. I have an Escapade frame on order, but I did briefly think about swapping to a Cascade, but looking at it more it feels like it would overlap with my Spur a fair bit, definitely so in weight terms and I want something lighter, faster that I can use for road/gravel work with a bit of singletrack thrown in. @Cy, any ideas if we'll see more than just renders of the Escapade before the frames arrive in March? Can't wait for mine to arrive!
I'd love one of these...
It's the first time I've thought I'd consider replacing my Pickenflick ... the 'flick is great on easier local trails, but does get out of its depth on chunkier (but not yet MTB terrain), and is also quite tiring for longer bikepacking trips where you encounter a variety of terrain.
It's different enough to my Ragley BigWig HT to consider it. But as my Pickenflick (with another set of wheels) also doubles as my road bike, the Cascade perhaps takes me a bit too far away from that.
Hmm... 🤔
@cy - yeah, I guess for me, if I'm riding offroad where I need that extra capability and slack geometry is going to be useful, then I want a flat (well, riser) barred bike that I can be jumping about and having fun on, and for me, drop bars (especially the brakes) aren't the right tool for that at all. I do see bikes with drop bars way up high and flared out and angled back, for me that kind of defeats their purpose somewhat, they're no longer giving an aero position, it's trying get them to a MTB/Brake hand position but that's compromising everything else they're good at.
TBH, I'd prefer a bike like this with flat bars - maybe you need two versions of it, like the original Roadrat had, a slightly longer TT version for flat bars (I still have one of those in the shed, just need some wheels to rebuild it back to former glory)
Looks good to me, just what I've been looking for. May put some Jones bars on for bike packing though.
I have to say, I really like it!
But my do it all bike is a Mk1 Solaris with rigid carbon forks and a set of carbon jones loops. Which really is a bit too similar to this to justify anything else in this sort of category. Particularly with a gravel bike as well
@lawman91 Thanks for the kind words, and for your patience on the Escapade. We should have photos of the new colours in about 2 weeks.
@honourablegeorge Depends on your definition of slack. 69 on the Cascade is slack for a gravel bike, but the solarismax longshot geo at 66 with 35mm stem is wildly more capable offroad, and less happy on road.
As for building the cascade with flat or risers as a kind of old school xc bike, that's definitely something you could do if you prefer mtb style bars. We haven't talked about it at launch because it's a lot to take in as it is, and there are little bumps in the build for a flat bar because the cascade is flat mount brakes. In normal times we could rely on being able to pick up the occasional set of flat mount caliper mtb brakes, or the adaptors but at the moment we can't. More than happy to talk to customers about this option and advise though.
No bright colours 🙁
Long article over there ---> on GritCX
https://singletrackmag.com/gritcx/2022/02/02/new-cotic-cascade-just-what-sort-of-bike-is-it/
cy
@honourablegeorge Depends on your definition of slack. 69 on the Cascade is slack for a gravel bike, but the solarismax longshot geo at 66 with 35mm stem is wildly more capable offroad, and less happy on road.
True, but given the same tyres, there's not that much downside (in my mind) to a Solaris on road, but there's a massive advantage in fun and capability as soon as you're offroad. I should shut up, I'm not at all trying to be critical, it looks a lovely bike, just that it'll suit very specific rider and maybe that's not me.
This is the sort of bike I've been pondering - off road tourer that can handle a bigger tyre for the fun stuff.
Have been looking at Mason ISO, Shane Bahookie Dropbar - this is a fair bit cheaper. I'm ok with that 🙂 but by the time I've put a dyno wheel and other bits & bobs there's probably not much in it.
No bright colours 🙁
Definitely needs an orange option 😉
I should shut up, I’m not at all trying to be critical, it looks a lovely bike, just that it’ll suit very specific rider and maybe that’s not me.
😀 The problem is that you own a HT and a gravel bike, which have enough distance between them. If you had this, there'd be too much overlap between the 3 bikes. If you only had a longer travel FS (for instance) then this would make more sense to replace your HT AND gravel bike.
When I first saw this I immediately started shaking the piggy bank but now I am not so sure. I have just got back from a short ,basically gravel, ride in W. Sheffield on my SolarisMax which has made me think where would the added value of a Cascade come from? It's probably a bit lighter than the SM but would the slightly improved road performance make it worth buying?
I must say if I didn't have an SM I would be in the queue.
IdleJon
If you only had a longer travel FS (for instance) then this would make more sense to replace your HT AND gravel bike.
But then I would have fewer bikes. Nobody wants that 🙂
The problem is that you own a HT and a gravel bike, which have enough distance between them. If you had this, there’d be too much overlap between the 3 bikes. If you only had a longer travel FS (for instance) then this would make more sense to replace your HT AND gravel bike.
This ... somewhat unexpectedly, is where I suddenly find myself.
I've just gone n-1 down to three bikes (gravel/SS HT/FS), and genuinely considering this and going down to 2 bikes! What's bloody wrong with me?!
@hardtailonly - you need to go and sit on the naughty step and reflect upon you poor behaviour
@hardtailonly – you need to go and sit on the naughty step and reflect upon you poor behaviour
I've done that. And I still want one! 😁
So, it's the Mountain Biker's Gravel Bike?
What’s bloody wrong with me?!
Pretty soon, your username 😛
But then I would have fewer bikes. Nobody wants that 🙂
and
I’ve just gone n-1 down to three bikes (gravel/SS HT/FS), and genuinely considering this and going down to 2 bikes! What’s bloody wrong with me?!
I picked up a Marin gravel bike last week, one of their more off-road focussed gravel bikes. It fits into my collection - 150mm FS, 140mm HT, Genesis Vagabond, new gravel bike, cross bike. I have every possible type of ride covered and can be on the wrong bike on every ride I do! 😀
The cross bike needs to go, and probably the Vagabond, but I just can't bring myself to sell them yet.
I think it looks ace - I'm part the way through a Warlock build and this is tempting.
I'd love to try one with a nice lightweight fork with a lock out - that'd make for an interesting bar set up especially if using a dropper! Time for FOX to ringback their fancy auto lockout.
That said there would be no need to wrap an XL like this for me 🙂 I'd even "make do" without a dropper.....
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51731803144_048c842a68_5k.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51731803144_048c842a68_5k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mPn1Lq ]Cascade 2022[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/coticltd/ ]CoticLtd[/url], on Flickr
If only my wrist got on with flared drops to make the most off road.
The steel rigid fork IMHO looks better than the carbon set up.
The promotional video is great but the pube/beard hair in almost every shot is a little off putting 😉
So is is aggro-gravel? 😉
I could be missing something.
Short reach drop bars on my 2012 Scandal would give me this wouldn't it? (albeit steeper head angle).
I guess over the last 10years XC MTBs have moved on, so bikes like this are taking things back to older XC geometry but with a bit more flexibility?
IdleJon
The cross bike needs to go, and probably the Vagabond, but I just can’t bring myself to sell them yet.
Nobody wants fewer bikes 🙂
@jimfrandisco Pretty much yes. The hacks we built that started this project were based around pre-Longshot Solaris frames. The full story (and horror pics of weird lash ups) are here: https://www.cotic.co.uk/cascade/
@andydt82 Couldn't possibly be that. Sonder have TM'd it haven't they? ;0)
I'd spend all day doing daft stuff liek this if I had a bike company. Looks like great fun.
I love the idea of it, but going 1x only means it's a no from me. With a chainring small enough to get a loaded bike up the off road climbs I tour on, I'm going to be spinning out really easily on the road bits.
Sorry!
I quite like this. Front rotor options of 180 or 160 instead of the normal 160/140 is a no-brainer. Why don't more people do this? If a bike will take a 50x700 tyre, why not have the brakes to go with it.
Longer front centre, less chance of catching a toe when the front end wiggles on the techy climbs.
Currently ride 3x9 and spend 90% of my time in middle ring. Playing with the numbers, a 2x would see me constantly switching rings. 1x makes so much more sense. If I ran 10-50 X 40, it would only lose the 11x50 from my current set up and be slightly higher than the 13x50.
@cy think I'll be looking for a test ride when there's a medium.
Currently ride 3×9 and spend 90% of my time in middle ring. Playing with the numbers, a 2x would see me constantly switching rings. 1x makes so much more sense. If I ran 10-50 X 40, it would only lose the 11×50 from my current set up and be slightly higher than the 13×50.
I've gone from 2x10 on the Vagabond to 1x11 on the new bike. On tarmac I can feel the gaps between gears far more on the 1x11 than I've ever noticed on my 1x MTBs. I don't think I'd want 1x on a gravel bike that was meant for carrying a load.
Cracking idea in my mind and I'm another who would buy one of these, if I didn't already have a very close match. I've a Decathlon Riverside 920; alloy & carbon, slightly higher BB, very slightly shorter and steeper. It handles loaded on long tours very well indeed and that's where I'd expect to find the Cascade living very happily.
I had wondered about the 1x gearing on mine at first but in real life it's not been an issue with 32t and 11-46, manages just fine for long bimbles in the Highlands on mixed terrain and on local woodland singletrack too.
I did swap up to a 180 front disc, a slimmer seatpost and, funnily enough, WTB Ranger 2.4.
If the frame on the Cascade is anything like as good as the one on my SolarisMax, I'll be green with envy when I meet one on the trails. The Solaris is very much my 'Trail' bike and that complements a drop bar 29er for trips away very nicely. Tour Divide, anyone....?
Like Letmetalktomark I’m also in the middle of a Warlock build. Helps that I’m using a few old bits too, 12x142, 100x15 (hope adaptors to 12mm). Boost would have been a bit more faff, as would be wheelsize, as I’m building it 650b initially with older wheels. Max is 700x48/50. I think that’s enough for me before overlap with a HT.
Not usually a huge fan of Cotic, despite respecting what they do, but if I hadn’t had the Warlock, I’d be ordering one immediately and dealing with the extra logistics. The Jeht would be on the list for a new FS too. Contrary to a few on here - I like the new branding. Top stuff.
@jimfrandisco Pretty much yes. The hacks we built that started this project were based around pre-Longshot Solaris frames. The full story (and horror pics of weird lash ups) are here:> https://www.cotic.co.uk/cascade/
This is good news - If I hang onto all my bikes for at least 10years then they can just reinvent themselves!
The GRX build says 'Shimano GRX800 1x11, 11-51 Cassette. 11-51 might be an error, as it is above the official capacity of GRX. Or may be that have done something to make it work.
Might have a wolf tooth doohickey or similar to allow it, shimano tend to be fairly conservative on their capacity numbers
I believe Richard @ Cotic has run the cassette and mech combo just fine. We got goatlinks in to try, in case they were needed, but I don't think they were. I'll ask and get back to you...
Sure the bikerader review said it was 11-46 which is already more than the Shimano claimed capacity.
Edit:- just seen the above post. Of that's the case, it's great news.
That was the small demo/press/photo bike, which just used a cassette that was available at the time, it wasn't build to spec... getting cassettes for bike builds has been "interesting". Bikes will be built with 11-51 cassette, which are now in stock, and a goatlink I think, just to make sure. But the combo has been run fine without a goatlink. I'm just asking now...
I asked Cotic about the 11-51 and they have replied
we will be building the GRX bikes using a Goatlink:
https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/goatlink
We have tested this on the bikes and it works perfectly. Richard has
been running a GRX mech with an 11-50 cassette and no Goatlink on his
prototype for months without issue as well. Shimano are very
conservative with their advised range for the GRX mech.
"
Very nice. That's the kind of bike I'll buy when I retire and ride to Cape Town or something.
Until then I'd still prefer this...
they have replied
Sam is quicker than me.
timf
Full Member
I asked Cotic about the 11-51 and they have repliedwe will be building the GRX bikes using a Goatlink:
> https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/products/goatlink < We have tested this on the bikes and it works perfectly. Richard has been running a GRX mech with an 11-50 cassette and no Goatlink on his prototype for months without issue as well. Shimano are very conservative with their advised range for the GRX mech. “
That's what I said. Jinx. You owe me a bike,
I reckon raiding my parts bin that I could get that to run as a 2 x set up. I already ride a Fargo which I absolutely love but the extra clearance on this could be a real winner. Swapping for a Salsa Firestarter fork and Cowchipper bars would make this a very fancy bike indeed. It's amazing what you can ride on this style of bike. It is much closer to a proper mtb than any gravel bike I have ridden when it comes to technical trails.
I have just the very epic adventure ride for you that this bike would be perfect for. You might want to bring the sus forks though............ 😉
Cheers
Sanny
Idlejon How's the vagabond its a bike ive always fancied getting hold of
@sanny We are really keen to do that adventure! Shame the timing didn't work out last year.
For @boriselbrus and those asking, the reason why it is 1x only is because the use of boost chain line and mtb drivtrains means the only new, off the shelf 2x option is shimano, and they only offer 26/36 combined with 11-42 which makes pretty much no difference to the range available with a 34 or 36 x 11-51 cassette, but has considerable complexity and front-mech-not-talking-to-road-shifter complications. We also settled on this because even unloaded Rich and I and a couple of other test riders never found 34 or 36/11 top gear particularly limiting on the roads. You are a better and stronger rider than us if you want/need a taller gear than that IME. Given MTB 2x outer chainrings actually sit wider than boost chain line I am sure there are ways you could 2x a Cascade with older parts and hack the mech to talk to the shifter, but in terms of reliable things we can buy to sell to people in 2022, 2x is dead.
Idlejon How’s the vagabond its a bike ive always fancied getting hold of
Worn out! 😀
I love it - it's a good gravel bike for around here (S Wales) where the tracks over the hills are often too rocky for a cross bike. I've done about 6000 miles on it in the 4/5 years I've had it and always enjoyed riding it. The drivetrain is very worn out now, but the rest of it is in pretty good condition, so I need to decide what to do with it - sell it for a few hundred as a bike needing a drivetrain; replace the parts and keep it for when I don't want to ride the Marin; replace the parts and sell it as a properly working bike and possibly make quite a lot of dosh. It's a good position to be in.
2x is dead.
This makes us semi-decrepit lesser mortals weep
Yeah you are jon lol I have a gravel ish bike and sometimes I'd rather be on the 29er but then I'd rather be on a dropped bar as its quicker to get more to get to said terrain than the mtb , wish I'd picked one up a few years back when prices were decent doh....
We can still do it! The way winter is going, we may be able to do it sooner rather than later if you are still up for it? Seeing the final version of the bike, I reckon we will have an awful ot of fun!
cough ( https://bikepacking.com/gear/guide-to-mullet-drivetrains/ ) cough
I just watched the promo video.
That was a mistake.
You can go wider than a 42 on the back with a double chanset with minimal tinkering. A Goatlink or Sunrace hanger extender and a long cage rear mech will work if you want them to.
@cy 2x is still very much alive and kicking. Did you not get the memo?
Many thanks for the explanation. I'm just thinking about what I use my Escapade for and thinking that sometimes I would like clearance for a wider rear tyre.
I currently run a triple - 26/40/50 with a 10 speed 11-36 cassette. I use the full range, the low ones for bike packing long off road climbs and the high ones for road commuting with the odd fun bit. I've done multi day trips when I've not used the big ring for a week, but unloaded I rarely use the small ring.
Anyway, no bother. I just love the look of it and thought it would make a nice addition to the Escapade /Solaris /Flaremax stable (all with triples which you would have to prise out of my cold dead hands!)
@boriselbrus Firstly, thank you so much for being such a big supporter of the brand. I really, really appreciate that. If you like triples, that's cool, and I'm also glad you have figured out a way you can make it work on those bikes. Like I say, in terms of brand new kit we can sell people, there is nothing we can source that would carry anything like the level of reliability and warranty we need to offer on new bikes, but I suspect with some older parts and front mechs it would be fairly straightforward to get something multiple chainring running on the Cascade if you could make the MTB mech talk to a road shifter.
@sanny We know! We would offer it if we could. You need to talk to Shimano about how the gravel market is developing. Our 2x Escapade option is one of the most popular builds.
I've just looked at some pictures and that video.
I'm now looking at how much to change bikes. Hmm.
I have to say with a dropper that looks a hella fun! you can see the trail riding influence on @cy 's design, that lovely high front meaning you can comfortably sit in the drops all day and i bet it's stable down some gnarly downhills too
It’s brilliant for making less than stellar local trails engaging and fun.
putting the fear back into bridleways…
I’ve barely touched my mtb since I got my atlas back in November.
Where there is a will, there is a way. I reckon it is probably easier now than it has been for a long time to go 2 x on a drop bar bike. @cy makes a really good point that’s off the shelf, there are no easy options but I’ve done it myself on several bikes with real success after a bit of trial and error.
As someone who still runs a 20t granny ring on his fat bike, full susser and drop bar mountain bike, I do love 2x!
Interesting. In the last year or so I built up a frankenbike based around an xl pinnacle ramin 5 frame that I was gifted. Geometry not a million miles away from a l cascade. Ended up with a 490a-c fork, midge bars, 2x9 using a 22-36 chainset (mtb triple minus the big ring) and 11-36 cassette. Was quite good for stuff like over the long causeway past stanage pole. Typical 90s mtb territory, plus winter road bike type stuff. Took it away on holiday to Kent and did some of the gravelly stuff down there. I have some 36c tyres on it and maybe that was the wrong move. Might stick some 29x2.25 knobblies in it and try again.
Can’t help thinking I’d be happier with a flat bar and mtb brake levers though.
