You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Currently have an SLX chain with Deore cassette and noticed the SLX chain does rust quicker than my previous chains (SRAM).
Chain needs changing anyway so was wondering whether to get another Shimano one or go for a kMC 12X or 12E? Anyone using them on Shimano and find any shifting difference?
Also the lube I was using (Peatys) doesn’t seem great so also looking for alternative.
The Shimano SilTec coated chains usually have very good rust resistance, they are so slippery though that dry, wax type, lube doesn’t stay on long. As for lube choice, I have my favourites but I’m reluctant to get involved!
I've found XT chains to be a lot better than SLX, much harder wearing and have better coating so don't seem to rust. More than worth the price difference if your thinking of sticking with Shimano chains.
If its 12 speed go for an X01 eagle chain - the extra lifespan more than offsets the cost. You might need to use the shimano quick link if the sram one interferes with the mech.
I'd stick with Shimano as I've found them to be very durable. No rusting on mine and they live in a damp cellar. My lbs have xt for a good price
I've been using KMC12X chains on my Ultegra cassette, absolutely flawless and zero rusting issues.
Wash chain, dry it with a rag and then apply Juice Lubes Viking Juice and it keeps running sweet.
Ref the comments above about the X01 Eagle chains. I've got SRAM Eagle on my MTB and was running the cheaper Eagle chains. False economy there, the X01 chains last much longer and justify the extra cost. Internet opinion seems mixed though about running Eagle chains on Shimano groupsets. I would avoid personally.
Put an XTR chain on for the best value for money regardless of what spec the rest of the drivetrain is . Lube wise I would have a look at the Zero Friction Cycling website and also consider Putoline (not mentioned on ZFC but is extremely good) as a fit and (virtually forget) wax alternative to the cycling specific waxes that need more regular reapplication. Wax will prolong the life of your drivetrain but comes with a bit of a procedure to get going. Pair a cycling wax (MSW/GLF/Silca) with a “top up” lube such as Silca or Tungsten as per ZFC for minimal faffage. Or just use one of the wax based lubes as a satisfactory compromise compared to a full wax treatment.
I'd recommend Weldtite TF2 All Weather lube as a Goldilocks "not too thick and not too thin" option.
Cheaper than most as well.
do nothing until the existing factory lube is gone then dunk in putoline
All depends on how fastidious you are about chain maintenance.
However, with both SRAM and Shimano chains, going for a higher spec does reduce surface rust due to coating and works out cheaper per mile than cheaper chains with regard to wear.
Factory lube should be removed IMO for ultimate longevity. It’s designed to stop the chain rusting while in storage and is quite sticky. It therefore attracts dirt which then makes its way into the rollers causing wear. Not a massive amount of wear I don't suppose but wear none the less. It also prevents the cycling specific waxes from getting in the rollers where it needs to be and stops it adhering sufficiently well (not a problem with Putoline though) Removing its adds an additional step to the wax prep process but if you are prepared to wax a chain then an additional step during the prep is no big deal. If you use Silca wax they supply a “strip chip” which removes factory grease as part of the waxing process itself. Otherwise Ceramic Speed UFO Drivetrain cleaner will remove factory grease in a matter of minutes - note that SRAM grease is much harder to fully remove with traditional degreasers such as meths/white spirit and requires several (like about 8 or something ) soakings - Ceramic Speed removes it in 5 mins. Putoline is definitely easier but does gunk up the cassette and pulleys somewhat. Cycling waxes are clean and do not even make your fingers dirty when handling the chain.
The Shimano SilTec coated chains usually have very good rust resistance, they are so slippery though that dry, wax type, lube doesn’t stay on long.
Do you have a source for that? I've not enjoyed great results with wax lubes on recent chains, including Ultegra/XT. In truth it's the variability of performance of wax lubes (including Putoline) that's sent me back to drip wet lube for wet and muddy stuff, just can't trust a wax lube to last even 80km in manky conditions it seems.
Just wondered if there was a definitive 'best chain' for waxing.
@13thfloormonk The source is my own experience! I was happily using White Lightning dry wax lube on my bikes, in all conditions and have done for years, but when I upgraded on my fat bike to XT grade (side plates SilTec coated) the lube just fell off when the chains got wet. I’m using White Lightning wet conditions or Epic now and am very satisfied.
Just wondered if there was a definitive ‘best chain’ for waxing.
I'm running Sram PC850 chains on the Singlespeed and Microshift 8spd Acolyte (the ultimate wide range budget groupset IMO!) on another bike.
They're budget chains, but hold the Putoline really well, and I'll get loads of miles out of each application.
Just wondered if there was a definitive ‘best chain’ for waxing.
Same as Ajantom. I use SRAm next to cheapest. the only time I have not had the putoline last well was filthy weather on peaty soil. Peat seems to strip it out? acidity?
The source is my own experience!
Cool, was just curious, I was coming to a similar conclusion myself but had been told (by companies selling waxing products, funnily enough) that Sil-tec made no difference. Also I haven't been methodical enough to track exactly which chains worked well and which didn't, the chain (possibly 105, or whatever came stock on a £1000 Specialized Allez) on my winter road bike seems to deliver the apocryphal '500km from a single application' but various Shimano Ultegra and YBN chains have shed an application within 50km of wet riding, Putoline included.
I'm getting reasonable performance out of Synergetic although not yet positive it would last 100km of winter gravel riding, although at least it can be re-applied on the go. Fenwick's Stealth might last longer but needs to set overnight.
do nothing until the existing factory lube is gone then dunk in putoline
It's not a lube, it's protective grease to stop the chain rusting.
ZFC's tests show it performs badly on both wear and resistance.
Always been a fan of KMC chains. Probably tempting massive fate but never had one snap or go bad on me.
Watch this space....
Still happily putolining here. It's not perfect and I do tend to give the chain a waft over with silicone oil during the damper months, but it's always been better then drip lubes for me. Like TJ I'm just using cheapo SRAM PC1110 Across several bikes.
I might play with other wax recipes in the new year, but it's a bit cold and meh for that right now...
X01 chain wins on longevity (very hard materials) and doesn’t rust.
Lube - there’s nothing to compare with Silca immersive waxing.
Silca Immersive lube.
On my SL ebike ridden all weather 2.5 years in the X01 chain shows zero measured wear.
Oh dear, I fear I prodded the hornets nest!
I've been really disappointed with the rust resistance of Shimano Linkglide chains. I've historically used XT chains, but was sucked in by the idea of Linkglide and super long life for my ebike. The Linkglide chains rust so quickly. I'm wondering whether to dip back into XT. In terms of lubes, Rock and Roll blue for me.
After years of using drip lubes I switched to MSW and Putoline.
I get the impression that MSW is best overall for keeping a nice clean looking drive train, without the build up of black gunk you get with Putoline, and perhaps minimising wasted Watts - best for the road bike.
But the Putoline is more tenacious, with the muddiest wet conditions less likely to result in a rusty chain or need reapplication - best for the winter MTB.
It is a shame ZFC seem to ignore Putoline because it could be interesting to see an objective comparison between the two.
in terms of chains - I have had good results from Shimano XTR, SRAM XX1 Eagle and KMC 12 speed chains.
Still a user and a fan of Revo Lube. Clean and smooth running chain and lasts long between applications.
Adam has got Putoline on his list to test when he's got a machine that's not doing paid stuff. It's a long list though.
Think he's currently trying to put together another test rig to keep for non paid work only.
Wonder if it would be higher up the list if someone actually sent him a tin
Removing factory chain lube usually takes me a few attempts as it sticks inside the rollers really well. It might feel clean but a wax lube won't work properly untill all the factory lube is removed from inside inside rollers. I find it easier to just ride with a new chain and use a wet lube for a few weeks. Then degrease the chain and cassette before applying a wax lube.
I've always used rock n roll blue. I quite like it because I'm lazy and you just spray it on after a ride then wipe the chain.
But I've nearly run out and fancied a change so for a new chain/cassette I'll put on soon I've a bottle of silca synergetic to try.
I'm just trying a KMC chain which comes pre treated with their own wax emulsion. About the same price as their others, using tech from the SA company that developed Squirt - which I've used on everything for about 5 years now. I like a silent, clean drivetrain. Newly fitted it feels like there's hardly any lube on/in it, and I could hear a lack of lube after a few hours ride. I treated it with Squirt without any degreasing (it's possibly the same stuff) and it's behaving nicely like all my other chains. Quite handy, not having to remove factory grease.
The only other I've used in recent times is Smoove, but it's fussier to apply and dearer (Squirt is cheap when bought in a 500ml 'workshop' bottle)
Big fan of Synergetic now, runs very clean but otherwise performs like a good wet lube should.
Still don't trust it past 200km, but given that recent rides have been long and muddy I haven't been willing to risk it, could maybe eke longer out of each application.
Probably expensive per application but I'm enjoying more certainty in wet conditions than I did with any wax lube.
Buy the best chain you can afford. I've got a SRAM XO on one bike and a KMC X12 on the other. I use Tungsten lube as recommended by ZFC.
I used to Putolene but it's a colossal faff and gets bloody everywhere, covering the jockey wheels, cassette and chain ring in thick gloop. IME it only lasted one ride in FoD slop so no better than the Tungsten.
I would use a Shimano chain with a 12 speed Shimano drivetrain so that you get the full benefits of Hyperglide+ (shifting under load)
The M9100 Shimano chain is the one to go for - longest life expectancy for not much more money. Plus most resistant to rust.
You can find an interesting comparison of longevity and efficiency at the site below. Note the KMC x12 chains are very efficient but not very durable.
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/chaintesting/
I've given immersive waxing a try recently - MSW with topping up using CeramicSpeed UFO - and gone back to normal lube. Just didn't last in the conditions I ride in, leading to rusty chains very quickly. In better/drier/less muddy conditions I could see it working but longevity for me was poor. Sold the whole lot inc my slow cooker.
Buy the best chain you can afford.
I'm a fan of this approach too. 11-sp I use SRAM PC-XX1 or PC-X1, for 12-sp it's SRAM XO1 - that's on SRAM cassettes. I've got a 12-sp XT cassette on one bike with a Shimano chain which to be fair shifts slightly slicker IMO.
I'm currently homebrewing various wax recipies.
Currently struggling to get >200km out of it on the road which means weekly applications. Cleaner than putoline though, it brushes off the cassette.
Weirdly the chains skipped a few times, almost implying the cassette has worn but no the chain this winter. Dunno if that's true or not.
There's a growing list of things I want to test out:
- High melting point wax is counter intuitively more flexible than low melting point wax because of it's smaller crystal structure. I think that my current batch of 60C wax may therefore not actually be optimal, blending with oil makes it softer, but not necessarily flexible, it's more lie the product of granulation (think raw pastry which is formed by granulation of flour and butter, flexible but crumbly).
- Soy or palm wax. As a base it has the advantage of being environmentally friendly and biodegradable. But it's also a mono-ester, which should mean it clings to metal (AIUI esters were the original additive in magnatec). This might get around the problem of getting waxes to stick to modern chains.
- Calcium based saponification, I'd need another DFF as I don't think my crockpot is upto the task of dewatering the end result. It also means dicking about a lot because you have to go through a similar process to making bio-diesel from veg oil to turn triglycerides into acids before you even start.
Additives are easier in a way. It'd probably need a ZFC style setup to quantify it properly, but ballpark concentrations are widely publicized. Obviously for a commercial operation the difference between 1% and 2% is doubling their costs, but homebrew it's within the margin of paying for postage on stuff (if you can even buy small enough quantities). It's making a base wax that sticks like putolione without the mess that I'm interested in (and soy wax + graphite as an additive instead of heavy metals would be nice and eco friendly too).