[Closed] new bike woes and views.

1 x 10 is pretty useless in a proper mountain environment.

Agreed. I think it's a fad that will die out. I wouldn't buy an MTB with a single chaining personally.

Cable rub... Hmmm. Generally on most FS bikes I've seen you need to tweak the routing with the odd cable tie or bit of tape. It's very often a compromise somewhere IME.... You need cables, but suspension moves them! 🙂

If it's like the older enduro from 09 then we used to cable tie the two cables under the bottom bracket to stop them splaying as you described.

Glad your enjoying it though ton.

Gotta agree on the single ring stuff too, but I'm old ! I commented on the trail bike of the year thread to same effect, majority of their top 10 bikes were on single setups.

My old 04 Enduro cable routing annoyed me - too long and the outers did what you say, whereas if I zip tied them or shortened at all it ghost shifted !

a 160mm full sus bike is not the ideal bike for a trail center.

1 x 10 is pretty useless in a proper mountain environment. to climb a rocky steep climb MOST blokes

I see loads of people running 1x10 in the peaks including myself...

It's what you're used to though. I've been running 1x since 8 speed was current, haven't used a front mech (apart from on the roadie) since about 2000. This includes a lot of Dartmoor riding and the occasional trip to the Pyrennees.

Zip tie the cables together where they pass under the bottom bracket, but not too tight, just enough to keep the brake one out of the way. If you do it too tight the zip tie will snap. Works for us.
We are deliberately running 2 x 10 on ours as we thought we might have a problem in the Alps with some of the climbs, especially Kevin. Recon Abigale could get away with 1 x 10 but for the small weight savings will leave hers as it is.

I would not use a 160 travel bike for XC use waste of time and energy.
160 travel bike is great down the runs in the Forest of Dean.Should of brought a Remedy 😀

Cant argue with most of that, but this bit

1 x 10 is pretty useless in a proper mountain environment. to climb a rocky steep climb MOST blokes will need a 22 inner ring.

Depends on the gear ratios of the 1 x 10, but im far from super fit and i can get away with 32 up front and 42 at the back, and i ride in proper mountains, and not so proper mountains.

1 x 10/11 is fantastic imo.

It's surely just a matter of getting your average gear ratios into the right road speed range if you have a lower number of ratios to choose from?
After all, on a chunky tyred 160mm bike, you ain't going to be leading the TDF on any pedally sections anyway, so loosing a bit of the potential high speed range to bias the bike towards the slower stuff seems like a sensible compromise to me?

(i run 32/42 or 30/42 depending on what i'm riding)

1 x 10 always seems a little pointless to me if you end up with a top gear of 32/11 and need a dinner plate on the other end. Id rather run two or god forbid three front rings have a nice range of gears that are reasonably spaced. But id rather feel cool than look cool 😉

Ton,

I have wanted an E29 for a long while.

Given your chance again, would you choose differently and if so, what would you a have Sir?

The cable issue is unusual as the cables should be cable tied as above and new bikes come that way normaly
Gearing will always be a personal choice. 29er enduros can probably have a front mech fitted not sure if 650 ones have the hole for the mount to fit on

so far i think i have made the right choice. i bought this bike with the sole purpose of riding some proper mountains. i did skiddaw with it on it's 1st outing. but it suited the route around nidderdale pretty well too.
i wont be using it to ride xc routes. i will ride them on my tourer like i have been doing.

also, what is a Sir?

Slightly off topic.

I've not looked at new MTB's for a very long time, but it does appear that the current fashion hinges on removing your front chainrings, putting them on the rear, and then claiming that you're somehow fitter because you only have a single ring up front, Madness 🙂

Should be able to fit a front mech onto the Enduro. Think you need a special adaptor for the 29r. The 650 should be the same as the 26 which has a threaded hole in the front linkage

My bosses s works 650 does not have any of the threaded mounting holes either round the pivot bolt like the old ones or fitting for the newer style taco.
His is only 650 one I've looked at closely though

what is a Sir?

It's a person who's at least 6'3", weighs at least 18 stones, says what he thinks & takes no shit.
Sir. 😉

On mine its the pivot bolt that is threaded. Adaptor for 29r is called a taco blade.

😆

it will take a direct mount front mech. the chain device is fitted where the mech will go.

As above, get a few zip ties on the cables.
Same routing on my Pitch, made a right mess of the underside of bottom bracket before I tamed the cables... never had a problem since.
I've recently gone 1 x 10 on the same bike (had it on HT for a while) the jury is still out.
Main benefit for me is it's so easy to clean after a muddy ride, compared to two chainrings, chainguide and bashguard. I can keep it all running smoothly with the minimum of effort.

I rode Skiddaw and Borrowdale on my Camber 29r last September. Borrowdale was a fairly miserable rise to be honest.

However the Camber was pretty much perfect at Whinlatter.

removing your front chainrings, putting them on the rear

will probably stick with the 1x10 for now. got a 30 front with a 11/40 cassette, with the 13tooth taken out. i dont need to pedal down hill, my momentum is pretty good. and with my fitness rising slowly i may get used to the single front ring set up...hopefully

agreed Ton 1x10/11 is no good for proper hills 160 is overkill mind for normal riders I have annoying cables under the BB

Not struggled with 1 x 10 yet, but if I ever do I'll think it a good trade off for a decent position for my reverb remote on the left hand side of my bars.

Currently on an 11-36 cassette and 32t ring.

Simplicity of 1 by is good but it does annoy me when my mates with doubles aren't working as hard to climb. On a big bike I would probably consider a compact double instead...but my point is I dont agree with:

'1 x 10 is pretty useless in a proper mountain environment.'

1x10 can make life tough but pretty much anything is doable with the right amount of fitness and willingness to try harder.

Slightly off topic.

I've not looked at new MTB's for a very long time, but it does appear that the current fashion hinges on removing your front chainrings, putting them on the rear, and then claiming that you're somehow fitter because you only have a single ring up front, Madness

Well put.

You will think 1x10 is crap on the first ride - but stick with it, you'll get fitter and wonder why on earth people carry all that extra metalwork hanging off their bottom bracket around.

jeez, just wait till you negative ninnys hear about singlespeders

1 thing i would like to ask anyone in the bike business, what is the reasoning behind the 1 x thing? is it purely a fashion led thing?

well here we go again.....
save a 1lb in weight,
get less cables and crap and places for mud to collect
just the dropper post lever on the bars, which simplifies things for racing
it makes most sense for [whispers]enduro[/whispers] and like it or not that seems to be what its all about these days
+ im not that fit and i manage alright

1 good thing is, walking up hills is better for taking in the scenery..... 8)

fashion led!! companies ploy to force you to buy dinner plate cassettes that cost the earth and wear out double quick time, I know I have first hand experience with guys that I ride with in the lakes and they don't seem to be getting any fitter just friggin skint! 🙂

Ghost granny while you get back to full fitness?

1 thing i would like to ask anyone in the bike business, what is the reasoning behind the 1 x thing? is it purely a fashion led thing?

For me 98% of my riding I never use the granny ring or the big ring, the other 2% I'd be walking anyway so those 2 rings, the front mech, the shifter & cables are redundant and the difference in weight of a 11:34 cassette to a 11:36 is a lot less than all that lot so I don't need to carry it around. If I lived in the alps it would be a different story but for Wales, lakes & Scotland 1x has been fine so far

1x11 here. no problems getting my fattie up any hill and i have lung cancer

Conversely, I like my 160mm bike with 1x10 (32/11-40) for everything.

Got to be a compromise somewhere on a do-it-all bike. For me it's worth giving up some flickability and top end pedalling speed for the comfort, big terrain ability and grin factor.

Have ridden it in the Peaks, Lakes and Wales and not really struggled to winch up climbs. Admittedly I have ridden 1x since around 2000 with a 1x7 setup on a 39t chainring! Still hold that anything 32-40 won't get me up I want to be walking anyway.

agreed Ton 1x10/11 is no good for proper hills

Boll*cks. You're either too unfit/fat/old. There are all genres of riders & racers perfectly comfortable of riding 'big mountains' on a 1x setup.

1 thing i would like to ask anyone in the bike business, what is the reasoning behind the 1 x thing? is it purely a fashion led thing?

It's hardly on all bikes. It's fairly specifically targeted at a certain type of bike.

Designers arn't constrained with having to try & cram a front mech into a frame, maybe where they want a linkage, frame piece, shock, wheel, etc.

see loads of people running 1x10 in the peaks including myself...

He said proper mountain environment though... 😉

I deliberately rode the whole Marin trial in the middle ring to see if i could manage 1 x 11 and i was fine except that really steep road bit 2/3 round which was a struggle. Would I want it all the time no i'm not mega fit and i often ride long (6-8 hour) and hard rides mostly in the peaks and Wales and wouldn't want to be without my granny towards the end of a ride or a few weeks ago bikepacking upto Edale Cross from Kinder Res. If I rode trail centres all the time i'd consider it.

Boll*cks. You're either too unfit/fat/old.

Waheyy that's me all over. Been happy with 3 up front since 1990, however my 28 yr old lad & his pal are running 1X 10/11 & had to push where I rode on Saturday. Now, they are both neither unfit/fat/old, so what's going on?

I just knew a willy waver would pop out soon.

if i fit a 22/32 i will have a 22-40 climbing gear......spintastic 8)

I have done a few hrs round rothiemurchus today and yesterday and have ridden up stuff with my double on Soul that would have beaten me on a single. I have also walked up a few sections. Burma rd wed or Thursday, which is a huge challenge in my small ring. Then again I am old, but not fat 😀

Waheyy that's me all over. Been happy with 3 up front since 1990, however my 28 yr old lad & his pal are running 1X 10/11 & had to push where I rode on Saturday. Now, they are both neither unfit/fat/old, so what's going on?

I just knew a willy waver would pop out soon.

Who knows, maybe they are just lazy?

Who is a willy waver here? You?

Oh yes, you assumed. Just like you assumed the small % difference in gearing on the low range makes all the difference when climbing. Right.

I've happily run 1x7, 1x9 (in 2001 before it was "fashionable") and 1x10 in what I'd call proper mountains - places like Spanish Sierra Nevada, Swiss Alps, Austrian Alps and Pyrenees. But I do appreciate that different people have different needs in terms of fitness, weight health etc - it is all riding bikes so all good. Especially great to have Ton back in the hills 🙂

My reason for 1x was various home made 29er frames with true 16" chainstays so no way of running a front mech. Singlespeed was fine for most stuff at home - including those bumps where you live Rich 😉 but holidays in the big places needed a few more gears. 1x7 was to fit on my existing SS back wheel, but now got a spare wheel that runs 1x10 (horizontal dropouts so prefer bolt in hubs).

I seem to remember my first high end MTB (Deore II on a fillet brazed Kili Flyer) came with 26:28 as the lowest gear so no different than my current bottom ratio.

Mmm postie too old/fat/unfit thats a new one on me he must be losing it since he moved to the lakes.

Or not 😉

For me i see the sense in a say 22.36 double with a standard cassette but id rather have a triple if im honest. But hey thats me and i am too old/fat/unfit/drunk. For me its not that the gears are any lower but that you have a bigger selection of closer ratio gears to work through

Btw though i do know nowt tho as i rode a singlespeed when i lived in morgins

esselgruntfuttock - Member
what is a Sir?

It's a person who's at least 6'3", weighs at least 18 stones, says what he thinks & takes no shit.
Sir.

Have we met?

TBH I do take a lot of shit right up to the point where I snap & then I turn into The Hulk!

If you can generate about the same power at low cadence and high cadence then you'll get on well with having a narrower gear range (eg 1x10). If your legs work best when working within a narrow rpm rang then you'll need a wider spread of gears (1x11, 2x10, 3x9 etc.)

I've been running 1x10 for about 4 years (and 1x9 for a short while previously). I'm quite happy to push to give my legs a break although it's usually only where it's so steep that anyone sensible is pushing!

I'm fine with 1x10 and I can't say I'm mighty, I'm a 10 stone runt... And yes that does include actual mountains 🙂

But I reckon it's maybe not the ideal default option for a bike. Having said that I suppose the enduro's targeted at more experienced riders who know what they want and don't want?

With regards to gearing run what ever works for you.

I'm happy with 1x10 (32:36/11) riding in the lakes. Some really steep stuff and I'm off and pushing, no slower than people riding in the granny though.

Having said that I suppose the enduro's targeted at more experienced riders who know what they want and don't want?

yeah, i bought it because i am new to this mountain biking stuff..... 🙄

Not how I meant it... More that it'd be pretty inappropriate on an entry level bike where a lot of people wouldn't know 1x from 3x and couldn't make an informed decision. But for the more experienced market it's reasonable to have spec choices that won't be for everyone, because people can make that call themselves. And to be blunt, if they buy a 1x bike and don't like it, can't really grumble.

and don't like it, can't really grumble.

come back and tell me that when you are 50 sunshine........ 😆

I love 1x10, but really....aren't we ****ing our knees up majorly without training correctly (most here won't) by pushing big gears up hills?

Some advice Ton.

1) Stuff that is so steep that you can't climb it on a 1x10 setup is quite often to steep to comfortably climb with a 160mm bike.

2) Run less sag at trail centers both front and rear. This makes a world of difference, I tend to run 23 percent rear, 20 front for trail centers. 33 rear, 25 front for steeper long stuff.

ton - Member

come back and tell me that when you are 50 sunshine........

I won't be buying a 1x11 bike when I'm 50! I'll get a double, rather than buying a 1x bike then complaining it's only got one chainring 😉

It'll be all hoverbikes anyway.

A shame you are not getting on with the bike.

I've been on my E29 for a month now and it's a great bike. Yes, it has a tonne of travel but still handles amazingly and it didn't detract from me having fun at the few trail centers I've ridden.

It's a bike that does shine when it gets proper gnar. (but still great to ride normally)

I changed the 30t front for a 32t as I have leg muscles.

what is the reasoning behind the 1 x thing? is it purely a fashion led thing?

one of 2 reasons:
-you lose some weight by losing the other 2 rings, shifter, mech and cable. you then remove the middle ring and invest in a narrow wide ring. you then realise that to get the best out of the narrow wide you should be running a clutched rear mech and its associated shifter and possibly add a chain guide/bashring

-you lose some weight by losing the other 2 rings, shifter, mech and cable.you then add this weight plus a bit more by fitting a dropper on the bike

either way, the bike lizards are going to get the money out of you... 😥

I changed the 30t front for a 32t as I have leg muscles.

but really you are a soft shyte like the rest of us, because you are using a 42 tooth expander on the back.

I'm 55 years old and 83Kg. I run 1x10 on a 29er: 30T up front, 11-40T at the back (Hope TRex). I reckon that I've lost about 1 1/2 gears at either end of the range when compared with a 3x10 on a 26", I'd have to go through it on a gear calculator to make sure.

The above is fine for big days out in the Lakes and the Dales, the usual reason for getting off and pushing is lack of technique on rough climbs.

Would I go back to a 2x or 3x setup? I don't know. I like the simplicity of the 1x: click up or down until you run out of gears, you don't have to think about front/rear combinations. Occasionally still go up two gears when I mean to go down two gears though 😳

I'm not particularly fit at the moment and weigh in at a whopping 94kg but I'm finding 1x10 alright. I've got a 32 on the front and 11-36 on the back and although I know having a granny on the front was easier I don't really miss it. Most of my riding life has been on a 1x9 setup until a few years ago when I got my Alline 160 and I prefer not having to worry about a front mech playing up. I think you just have to change your riding style and deal with not being abboe to sit and spin up things like you did in the past.

I would like to add that I don't feel 1x or 2x is better than the other, just that they suit different people. 2x never slowed Tracy Mosely down when all the other 'cool kids' went single ring.

To. kP

I'm not particularly fit at the moment and weigh in at a whopping 94kg but I'm finding 1x10 alright. I've got a 32 on the front and 11-36 on the back

I'm not particularly fit at the moment and weigh in at a whopping 124kg but I'm finding 1x10 alright. I've got a 32 on the front and 11-36 on the back, although I am going to try a 30t on the front to see if that's better.

1 x 10/11 is not for me, I could and have used 1x 9 but prefer actually a triple more for the top end speed.........a lot of riding is joining the bridleways for me or riding to somewhere to start the off road, more gears the better.

edit all bikes now weigh less than my first mtb in 1991 so I consider anything light/lite

A good review Ton of the pluses and minus points......new career as a reviewer? 8)