[Closed] #TOTW New bike shop advice

I don't want to crush your dreams, but is the middle of a worldwide parts and bikes shortage the ideal time to be opening a bike shop? They're hard enough things to run at the best of times

I'm an absolute wizard of a mechanic with years of experience as a workshop manager. I'll come and run the show but only if you're based somewhere with year round sunshine and trails that go from mountain top to sandy beach.

Sorry, I live in wettest West Wales, fantastic trails but you would have a 25 mile ride to the beach.
Dallas

but only if you’re based somewhere with year round sunshine and trails that go from mountain top to sandy beach.

Swansea?

(We've got loads of bike shops!)

50 ish miles north.

Sorry, I live in wettest West Wales, fantastic trails but you would have a 25 mile ride to the beach.

You probably aren't going to like this advice, but I would think very carefully about opening a bike shop. If I was going to do it, I would work in the industry for several years and learn how it works, as in, where you make money.

Selling stuff means you need stock on display. You need to finance the stock and also pay rent on floor space. You need to be there when the customers are there, which means you work crazy hours and have to be available on weekends.

Running a workshop means making most of your money fixing shitty commuter bikes with punctures, worn brake pads, and rusty chains. You'll be constantly dealing with people at their worst - they need their bike immediately and you're the guy that has to tell them the bad news that it will cost more to fix the bike than they paid for it in the first place, plus it will take days or weeks to get the parts ordered in.

Obviously, some people make successful careers and businesses at it, but it's like the dream of owning your own pub or cafe; it's much more work than most people realize. Working in someone else's shop for a few years and understanding how the business works (i.e. where the money is made) is the best advice I can give.

I don’t want to crush your dreams, but is the middle of a worldwide parts and bikes shortage the ideal time to be opening a bike shop?

Would opening one when there's really low demand be better?

I wish you the very best, but...without wishing to sound nasty...your post does read like:
"Hoping that there maybe some kind soles out there that have just taken the plunge recently, i'm looking for advice on [b]setting up a bike shop[/b].

Your questions appear very broad, and seem to be the basics of setting up a shop...

DrP

Would opening one when there’s really low demand be better?

The fact that it's mid Wales may be of far more relevance than high/low demand/mid pandemic/etc.

"it’s like the dream of owning your own pub or cafe; it’s much more work than most people realize. Working in someone else’s shop for a few years and understanding how the business works (i.e. where the money is made) is the best advice I can give"

Started my shop in 2003, having spent a couple of years working in one. Would agree with the above!

Have you sought out the free business advice available to startups?

https://www.anturcymru.org.uk/entrepreneurship/starting-running-and-growing-a-business-with-business-wales/

I don't have any cycle industry experience, but the received wisdom is that the profit comes from the service side of the business.

Have you got a business plan that forecasts where the revenue is going to come from (bike sales, parts/accessory sales, servicing/repairs etc) and what the cost of providing those things are. Its really important that those forecasts are both realistic and provide you with the the income you need/want from the business over the appropriate period.. If they don't then the business *will* fail.

A mistake lots of sole trader businesses make is under-costing their own labour with the result that (as someone above said) you end up run ragged and earning less than minimum wage (taking into account all the hours worked)

A good business adviser will be able to help you through developing a business plan and spot the holes/potential issues before you start trading.

this thread is a good summar of someone's experience doing what you are planning:

https://www.retrobike.co.uk/threads/so-i-started-a-bike-shop-update-16-10-20.347464/

very different location but gives an idea of whats involved in setting up and making it work.

I'd echo what some of the others have said. Get some experience in the trade first. If you don't even know the basics of the trade then taking out Start-up loans isn't a great idea either.

They say ignorance is bliss, but not when you're chucking tens of thousands into a business.

I used to work as a guide in the bike industry and have a little bit of insight I suppose. The most successful shop I know is based near York and doesn't touch selling bikes, he just does repairs and sells a few bits and bobs in the repair shop, he seems to be doing really well. Busy all the time with bookings sometimes a month ahead.
If I were doing it I'd focus on doing repairs only (I'm not because learning to be a good mechanic takes years 🙂 ).

Would opening one when there’s really low demand be better?

You think the current high demand will significantly outlast the low supply?

Not that it matters that much of course in the short term, having nothing to sell is the same outcome as having no one to sell to.

The biggest difference is you can't upset customers you don't have.
You absolutely can upset the ones you take on by not being able to supply.

At the moment op in any trade your problem will be putting product on shelves. Lots of suppliers in lots of industries currently won't take new customers simply because they can't supply the ones they have.

If you want a "retail" premises in the 21st century you need to be selling something people can't buy on line, with bikes that means spannering, lots of spannering. If you're happy with that you'd be as well offering a "parts picking service" then you run a workshop to fit it and only stock the very basic stuff your self. Eg Customer orders and pays for stuff you tell them to buy, gets it delivered to you drops bike off, you fit it and charge for the work and 5% or what ever of the parts you advised.

If you want to sell stuff you want a cheap lockup, a website and carrier, better still, do it all through amazon and don't go near it. Retail is dying.

Personally I think you are mad if you haven't got at least a years experience working in the trade.

Massively steep learning curve, battling the internet, battling the current chaos.

Do you have a particular niche in mind? The shops most successful near here specialise in high end mountain bikes - spannering to people who think nothing of a £400 bill for a service.

Gravel?Road?BSO?

Hi all, thanks for your thoughts, I had guessed that most would say the same based on lack ok components and bikes at the moment. I am looking to sell MTB, Road and Gravel, MTB and Road is massive in our area, Gravel not so much so hoping to push that. I have been a mechanic in the motor industry since leaving school in 1988, i have looked after mine and my sons bikes for the last few years, and also started working on others over the last few years. I know it is a different thing making it as a business, I have also managed my after sales department over the last 7 years, this has given me a broader in sight into operating a business.
Appreciate everyone’s points of Vue.

A mistake lots of sole trader businesses make is under-costing their own labour with the result that (as someone above said) you end up run ragged and earning less than minimum wage (taking into account all the hours worked)

Very much this. Paying somebody £23k a year (or taking that salary yourself), adding in employer NI/pension costs, holidays, sick days and so on, and then taking that total cost and trying to recover it across the whole 12 months would give you a cost price of £34 per hour labour.

I don't know many shops who feel they are consistently getting that, but if that mechanic isn't you then you need to make profit on that in order for you to get an income from the workshop. So, let's say you want to earn £10k off the back of that one tech then you'll need to be selling out at £46 per hour.

That's allowing for a very low £6k share of the overhead, £1k for damages/losses and being 80% utilised on retail work March to October and 50% utilised over winter months. I reckon you'll dream of these numbers in the first year or two, to be honest, and once you factor in bike building and non-paying warranty work, along with goodwill, they look a big ask.

I'm not in the cycle trade, but have friends who are and know they struggle to get a good return from the workshop.

There is an assumption in the above numbers that you'll be VAT registered pretty quickly and paying 20% VAT on all retail sold...

EDIT: Just seen your coming from the motor trade - presume you've done the maths already.

I’ve had a couple of spells of bike shop experience, 20 years apart. I would be doing my utmost to get experience working in someone else’s shop - get to know the reps/distributors/ what sells/what doesn’t and if you’re looking for mechanic experience, get paid whilst doing it rather than looking to pay someone else. Bikes and high-end parts are likely to be in short supply for the foreseeable, so the service said is where you can build up a base for relatively little outlay. Cash flow is what kills small businesses - sinking cash into premises, outfitting and stock leaves you the cost of servicing that debt. After getting a few years of shop experience, I would probably start off by offering a mobile repair / service business if it was me - then you can understand what the core revenue from that looks like before expanding into the retailing/ renting premises etc.

I've spent the last 10 years working in bike shops, I escaped earlier this year and never been happier

I have been a mechanic in the motor industry since leaving school in 1988, i have looked after mine and my sons bikes for the last few years, and also started working on others over the last few years.

This scares me.

Working on your own bikes is NOTHING like working on customer bikes. I had plenty of assistant mechanics who thought they were great because they'd worked on their own bikes or their mates bikes but bring them into a workshop and it's very different. Even after 10 years I was still coming across stuff I'd never seen before weekly, and that's just historic standards let alone new standards.

As far as workshop is concerned, you are mostly working on cheap rubbish. You can't charge a lot because it'll be more than the value of the bike so you have to work fast and still to a good standard. Can you re-cable a 7 speed v brake bike in less than 15 minutes? Change any bb in less than 10, fit a headset including facing and reaming in 15 mins? If you can't, forget it, you won't make money.

My advice, get a job in a bike shop for 2 years first then see how you feel.

Before I got my first workshop job I was a self taught mechanic who thought I could do everything because I'd been building and maintaining my own BMX's and MTB's for a few years. It all goes out the window when someone walks in with a rusty old Apollo because something snapped on the way to work and it's got a bunch of BSO standard kit that you've never seen before and of course you don't have it in stock.

Very steep learning curve. Every different type of bike, every headset, every BB, every squeeling hydraulic brake. Bloody cup and cone hubs, loose ball bearings bouncing all over the floor, rusted solid quill stems. It never ends.

In a busy workshop in Sheffield we used to take so much money through the till just for chains, cassettes, break pads and £40 basic services. Then at the end of the month you get paid minimum wage and go back to your shitty room in a shared house. Pay your staff peanuts and they'll always be looking for something better. That shop lost all 3 mechanics in the same month when we all found better options.

Edit: Beaten to it while typing but pretty much what he said^^^

I’ve spent the last 10 years working in bike shops, I escaped earlier this year and never been happier

Also very much this. I finally feel like a grown up and no one tries to pay me with biscuits.

Honest truth... It's freakin brutal in the industry now. I wish you the best of luck but go in with your eyes wide open. Lead times are crazy long, stock is running very low at all distribution hubs, everything that might say it will be in-stock in 2022 is probably already sold. It's not getting any better by April either, 2024 maybe, but definitely not 2022 and only partially in 2023.

What boriselbrus said.

And also...

Set up costs. Are you going to buy the tools you need to fit cotter pins and rod brakes along with every BB tool ever (spoiler, I have more than 30 BB tools) and kit to set up Di2 and service e-bikes. Can you bleed and set up Magura HS33's? Set up canti brakes? Build any wheel to 0.5mm lateral and radial tolerance with perfect spoke tension in 30mins?

Cytech 2 won't give you more than 20‰ of what you need. I have Cytech 3, Velotech platinum plus and trainer, and Halfords technician qualifications. Between them they teach you maybe 40% Halfords was actually the best one, but most shops don't have a technician.

Try a little test. Get a v brake bike with cup and cone wheel bearings. Strip it. That's everything down to its component parts, bb and headset out, mech hanger off, cut the cables so they can't be reused, chain split, cassette off, tubes and tyres off, wheel bearings out of the front wheel, brake pads off the arms. Then face and chase the bb shell, and rebuild it, with a torque wrench so it's perfect. No skipping gears, properly toed brake pads each the same distance from the rim, stem bolts all looking the same, wheel bearings smooth with no play.

If you can't do it in 2 hours, forget it. To be a Halfords technician you have to do it in 90mins. That's how workshops make money.

Can you actually buy stock of chains, cassettes, chainrings etc? In my town 4 shops and mobile mechanics went bust this year. One because he was too slow, the others because they couldn't get the parts they needed to fix the customers bikes.

All the customers want a discount and will price check CRC in front of you before demanding a discount. To make a sale on a high end bike you'll discount it by more than your monthly wage so you make more money selling the matching helmet than the bike, then when they break it they'll demand it's fixed immediately, for free or they'll be on Facebook slagging you off. Customers will want "little" jobs like facing BBs done instantly for free because "it'll only take you a minute"
You'll be asked to work on dodgy, homemade e-bikes which will do 50mph, and if you refuse you get threatened, and it's a virtual guarantee that your shop will be broken into at least once a year.

It's a brutal world and you'll make less than working at a Tesco checkout. You will end up hating bikes and everyone who rides them.

Good luck!

Argh, please stop! Your posts are giving me flashbacks! I think I've got mild PTSD. Everything you've said is bang on though.

OK, so all the advice is basically dont do it. Some from those with actual real experience.

So, question is, do you take the advice. Thats probably the first test you need to pass.

You will have to compete with Wiggle or similar which will be near impossible.

This thread is absolutely terrifying - and I thought I had a decent idea of how hard it is to run a bike shop and also zero intention of getting involved in the industry!

reaming in 15 mins?

Probably pays better than working on bikes

Hi Dallas, I'm pretty certain that we've met on a couple of occasions in Bassett's when I have had a car off you guys.

50 miles north of Swansea? Surely most bike shops need a local customer base and 50 miles north of Swansea is putting yourself pretty much in the middle of a very empty part of the country. Not a lot of local trade.

Llandovery however... Loads of riding, no current bike shop, a great vibe to the place, loads of cyclists living locally and even more visiting.

I wish you all the best in your venture and tbh if you can get it up and running I'll definitely be calling in.

The world is going electric. Will you be able to cater for that?

Can you link in with local providers? B&Bs, events organisers etc.

If you don't know where to start looking for suppliers, you probably aren't in a position to open a bike shop.

I'd agree with basically all the advice above. Fixing your own bikes is totally different to making a fifty year old three speed hub work again after you've replaced the 27 X 1 1/4 inner tube in the wheel, or even setting up cantilever brakes with post fit brake pads if you've not come across them before.

Can you build a wheel from scratch? Would you know what to do if you're presented with a bike from India with 4 chain rings (oh yeah, they exist)? Do you know all the different suppliers of Shimano to get accounts with? Can you patiently explain what's very obvious to you to someone who has no idea about how bikes work? Can you get excited about selling a £300 hybrid five times a day? Can you make angle grinding a crank arm off cost effective? Do you know how rod brakes work? Can you bleed a ten year old Avid Juicy in twenty minutes without killing a man?

As a lot of people have said, work in a shop for a while. Get a handle on the industry, make connections and see the downsides as well as the upsides. Learn about the suppliers and how they operate. Then you'll be in a better position to set up yourself.

The person that looks after my bikes after doing exactly what people are suggesting here starting mobile and then getting premises and building a successful repair business has had to close due to not been able to get parts. It may not help that he looks after the higher end where the part shortage is worse, he didn’t deal with too many BSOs as they are catered for elsewhere in our town. I’d really think twice about setting up now plus for a lot of folk disposable income is about to tank as fuel, gas and electricity and the new taxes kick and a potential interest rate rise and you aren’t aiming at the budget market with Stanton and Orange.

I don’t know much about West Wales but I think it has pretty low population density will you get enough footfall to sell enough bikes to make it worth it.

What do they say?

"how to make a small fortune in the bike industry?....

Start off with a Large fortune!"

And that was before competition from the internet.

On a serious point, be interesting in STW mag given they have Charlie on the staff on his experience.

The other thing that has changed so much is all the standards and thus the stock and tools to deal with it all.

When I worked in an shop, just as aheadset was coming in, before that pretty much 2 sizes, and then budget, mid and expensive option in both. Just look at how many headset options alone there are now, then multiply that across all bike components.

As several people above have said, in order to compete with online, have to do something online can't do, and even then something niche.. but just what?

Here is my two cents based on 10 years or so working in the industry in three different countries.

Now would be an incredibly difficult time to open a bike shop for these reasons (some mentioned above)

-Parts, bikes and stuff in general is difficult to source (Current ETA on a 10 speed 11-34 cassette in Canada is March 2023, if you haven't got preorders in 2022 is going to be very tough for parts)

-Bikes brands are mostly allotting bikes to dealers based on previous years orders/history and relationships (my current stores Devinci booking for next year is based on this years $ value plus 10%)

-Bike shops in mid/South Wales have a history of not working-not sure why but I know of a reasonable number of examples of stores that no longer exist

-Some suppliers are not willing to open new accounts as they cannot fulfil their current accounts demands`

So basically unless you have some existing relationships in the industry that are going to get you to the front of some pretty big queues or you have a few million in the bank and some experienced people to hire I think now would be a very hard time to get a bike business up and running.

Yes the demand is there to start pulling money in immediately but the product isn't!

Just so you get some good news... If you do start up in April, if you're still around by the following April then you almost certainly have a good long term business as it will only get easier than it is right now.

I know nothing about the bike industry, but reading the above is enough for me to be scared on OP’s behalf.

+ 50 miles north of Swansea, not many people live there !

If after all that you still go ahead, I’d incorporate a little coffee area, and try as much as possible try to become a local hub for bikers. Get as many email addresses of your customers, get to know their bikes, so you understand what appropriate upgrades they would need. Throw out seasonal offers, new mudguards supplied and fitted for £x.
Still sounds like an impossible task.

I love working on my bikes but that’s cos I spend all day doing a job a shop would do in an hour.

The best advice I can give is to actually be there during your opening hours.
Even on the worst day you have to wait it out.

Think very very hard about this. I managed and then owned a bike shop for nearly 30 years until I 'got out' and closed the place a few years ago. Since leaving my life has changed for the better and never once have I regretted my decision. So many people I knew in the industry have done the same thing and like me they are so glad they are no longer involved and those who still own shops cannot wait to get out. The majority of customers want you to have everything in stock on sale at cost and then want a discount on top. Finding the right staff is a mare. In a bike shop staff have to be great with customers, mechanically brilliant, honest, reliable and prepared to work unsociable hours and most shops do not make enough profit to pay them a real living wage. You can waste half your working week dealing with constant time wasters who never spend money with you, even customers who do spend money can tie you up for hours and repeated visits when purchasing a low value item. Warranty work is expected in most cases to be done without payment from the supplier.. You have constant crap from everybody from customers to suppliers to the landlord. You constantly worry about shoplifters and break-ins. You cannot take time off and will work through any illness as it is difficult to trust staff to run the place for you. You live in fear of being slated on social media .Even a small shop can cost a staggering amount to keep open....Rent/rates/heating/lighting/water/waste disposal/credit card charges/bank charges/accountants fees/insurance/security/staff wages/stock/tools and replacements/stationary/covering theft/paying staff holiday pay/alarm monitoring/running a van (many bike shops need one)/shop fitting and updating etc etc. The good bit = working with bikes. I could go on and on. Once again think very hard. As others have said the reality is you can earn more per working hour stacking shelfs without the constant worry and stress. Good luck in whatever you decide to do.

I can't give any advice about the bike industry but in my previous job I worked as a retail manager and I can echo all of the above sentiments re: running a shop.

The general British public can be utter b*tards at times. They expect you to be open 24/7, want discount on top of discount, demand the impossible, then get aggressive when you explain that you can't do everything they are asking for.

You'll get into potentially dangerous situations with shoplifters, constantly worry that your phone will go off in the middle of the night with an alarm call, and have to work ungodly hours to keep the place going because as has been said above, it is seemingly impossible nowadays to get reliable staff to work for you.

I would personally rethink the "bike shop" angle and go down the "Bike repair hub and coffee shop" one instead. If you find a good location near a popular trail area, or on a route where roadies could stop off mid-ride, then you could be on to a winner. You can also get the walker / family / general outdoors type customers as well.

Good bike mechanics are like hen's teeth, and the most successful places that I know of are primarily repair hubs only, carrying only a basic supply of components. Nowadays, everyone knows the real cost of components because of sites like Wiggle and CRC, so why not get your customers to buy their own parts and you fit them for a fee. That way, you don't have to deal with the supplier headaches. The downside of this though is that you'll need a good few decades of post-Cytech experience to call yourself a "good" mechanic, plus the above mentioned plethora of tools.

Setting up any business venture based on the face-to-face retail model is a huge gambit in the age of online shopping. Experience-based retail is the way to go though, and it can be done. Good luck with your venture, whatever you decide to do.

If after all that you still go ahead, I’d incorporate a little coffee area, and try as much as possible try to become a local hub for bikers.

That is what the relatively new shop in Lyndhurst (The Woods Cyclery) has done and I think they are doing okay (still there after a few years and busy) but haven't seen their books!

Open 7 days a week, organises group gravel rides, has a coffee shop etc,. They do happen to be in a central spot in the first and also hire out bikes so a pretty good location for many types of cyclists.

@DallasWiseman

Your first problem will be ROBO shoppers. People who come into your shop, sit on your bike, you spend hours trying to sell it to them, they say I'll think about it, go away and buy one on line that's discounted. Then when it goes wrong they bring it to you as the local dealer wanting you to fix it for free.

Have you sat down and worked out how much capital your going to invest in bike stock? How much is that going to cost you in interest? It's going to be a lot. At the moment bikes aren't discounted due to lack of stock but once that's fixed the big boys will be selling bikes on line cheaper than you can buy them at trade.

My advice is don't sell big shiny bikes. Sell a few cheap sub £500 bikes to start with but if a customer wants a bike, order it in for them after theyve paid upfront. This reduces your stock costs, risk and is one less reason for your shop to be ram raided.

The reality is that to make money in a bike shop, leave the big boys to sell the bikes on line (wiggle, crc, Evans, Halfords, Paul cycles etc etc) and concentrate on fixing bikes. It's easy to buy a bike off the Internet but really hard to post it back to be fixed.

Repair people's bikes, make the money on repairs. Yes, it's not glamorous but it's less risk and a service people need.

But as others have said, the reality is working on rusty, old, cheap bikes that cost £300 new. They will bring it on and not understand why you want to charge them £200 for new tyres, drive train and brake pads and bearings.

It will take time to build up a loyal customer base. You will need this to get you through winter.

You will need to be proactive so setting up a riding club that sets off from your shop will help but that means working later and longer than already doing.

Be prepared to fit components that the customer has bought off line and that you will only make money on labour and cables.

Why do you want to leave your current trade? Sounds like your on a well paid job.

How about reducing your hours and working part time and setting your work life balance right? Yes, you will take a wage cut but you will probably earn more money than owning a bike shop and work less hours.

Use your spare time to work in a bike shop, or flip bikes, repair and sell them etc and then in 2022 when things might get back to normal think about setting up a bike shop.

However, if you ignore us all, I wish you the best of luck. Please keep us posted how you get on.

Working on your own bikes is NOTHING like working on customer bikes. I had plenty of assistant mechanics who thought they were great because they’d worked on their own bikes or their mates bikes but bring them into a workshop and it’s very different.

Second what @boriselbrus (and a couple of others) have said.

We had a number of mostly teenagers employed over the years - most on the back of them being keen on bikes, handy MTB racers, etc - and most thought they were good mechanics as "they fixed their own bikes plus those of a mate/brother".

Ask them to build a £300 Rockhopper or fix the brakes on a shopping bike and they'd be unable. One guy (who's very rich Dad bought him all the top end gear for his racing) was genuinely shocked to discover that we didn't spend our days working on XTR-equipped dream bikes, in fact he was such a snob that he refused to work on "the cheap shit". He lasted 2 days.

One would almost think there is a bit of real journalism to be done here, follow the fate of a few hardy souls who take on the job of bike shop owner.

Look into why the model is broken for many.

Look at who succeeds and what is the magic combination for them

Despite being negative I would add that if you really want to do it then do it. You need to have a clear and honest business plan first though.

In Binner's home town someone who was an experienced mechanic tried but eventually sold up, the new owner seems to have a different model and deeper pockets at startup and is still going (again not seen the books). You need to talk to people like these before starting up, those who have left, those who are still going.

I wish you every success whichever way you go.

If you are quick, you could take on an apprentice using government money (not sure if available in Wales)

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/kickstart-scheme

Retrobike

Good thread on retrobike about someone starting a bike shop.

OP, a few thoughts on this and bike retail in general. I've worked in the industry for some time inc bike shops though none of it was retail premises management.

They say the workshop should be the most profitable part of your shop - easier said than done but look up Jay Townley's talks from Madison's IceBike shows as a starter if you've not heard of him, he's covered this among other bike retail topics.

Reading the comments about fixing cheap bikes above - simple answer may be, don't? Not every garage works on every car. Work out a policy that refuses without offending and it may even help people see the value in a new, half-decent bike. There are £6-8k e-bikes all over the trails and a good number of people with a lot of time and money so if your offering is good you may be able to set your prices higher per hr by taking on the right work and specialising. Bikes aren't getting any simpler. Work for e-commuters and e-mtbers, not sure what the market is like where you are but anywhere hilly will have more e-bikes as the years go by.

Can you set up a collection and delivery service for bike repair? Charge for the convenience. Costs a retailer about £30 to deliver a built and boxed bike (not inc assembly labour) - many people value their time more than that.

If you can't/won't justify working on £99 BSOs, maybe the only bike you do sell is a sound £299-399 commuter? Don't sell a wide range of bikes, just a couple of models with a promise of fair service life, maybe with a service pack offer. Aim to convert some repair refusals into new customers. Ridgeback if you can get them. Evans did really well from the Pinnacle Lithiums. A £999-£1200 e-bike equivalent would be a winner. Sell them while you judge the interest in other bikes rather than invest in a load of stock up front?

Bikes and PAC stock - I'd be wary of this. Clothing in particular with seasonality, sizing etc. So hard to compete with big online retailers and cash tied up in stock. I know how much clearance goes on in big retailers, how hard it is to predict demand and how much support a big company gets from their suppliers. Not sure how a small IBD could have the same leverage.
It may work to go the other way, not stock anything but service items and be pro-active with prices for fitting the parts people buy online or processing a warranty claim.

Community and people - if you have space to make a hang-out bike wash and there's trails nearby then making it a part of the riding culture should pay you back.

I still believe bike shops will be one of the last forms of independent retail. The internet can't replace the whole supply and service chain for bikes. But the trad form of bikes and parts retail that can be done online is very hard to keep alive if the business isn't based on something that the internet can't do - service and people, help and expertise etc.

Best tip I can think of - Read Seth Godin's 'This is Marketing' and understand what he means by smallest viable market. If you can crack that part of it to begin with you'll do ok.

I'd also be looking for a gap in the market. My opinion is you should forget cytech, it's easy to work on new shiny rust free bikes but the reality is a lot different.

Instead train in repairing ebikes. How to fix motors out of warranty, how to re cell batteries etc. Become a specialist in this. People will post you their broken bits for you to fix. As we move to the new "right to repair" era, this will be a great place to be if you are good at it. With your mechanics back ground you should have some transferable skills. (if this is what you want to do? But I suspect you probably just want to sell shiny new bikes)

I have a friend who works in a large posh bike shop. He says people come in looking for a new bike, look at a £4000 orange, then look at a cube next to it that has all the same gear on plus a motor and battery for half the price and walk out with an ebike.

Most of the people I know buy specialized ebikes for the warranty and peace of mind but then sell them after 3 years and buy another one with a warranty. They have too much money and not enough time to have a bike that doesn't work. Also when an ebike breaks down 20 miles from home its a lot harder to deal with. These 2nd hand bikes are bought but where do they go when they break? Would you spend £800 on a new motor or £500 on a new battery (if they are even available) if the bike cost you £1200 2nd hand?

As an observer, this thread has a lot of very good advice. I never thought about opening a bike shop and certainly wouldn't now however!

As an observer, this thread has a lot of very good advice. I never thought about opening a bike shop and certainly wouldn’t now however!

My local one has survived for years. Sole trader, mostly doing repairs on all sorts and he's built himself a good loyal following.

He sponsors the local cycling club so he does get a lot of people from that in there buying (quality) bikes, parts and kit and having repairs done but he also seems to cover pretty much every other type of customer. It's not unusual for there to be an £8000 road bike hanging next to a £99 "full sus" in the work shop.

I've never yet seen a repair that he can't manage either. However I also know that he works incredibly hard at it and he doesn't get much time off. If the shop is closed, he's not earning.

To address some of the suggestions...

Only working on high end bikes? No, I thought I'd do that but it doesn't work. You get a family come in with two nice bikes and two BSO's. Are you going to tell them they have to take the crap bikes somewhere else? So you do their bikes, then their mate comes in with a BSO. "You did my mates bike which is the same as mine, why won't you do mine?" Plus where do you draw the line? An "as new" Carrera or a beaten up, rusty Rockhopper? A five year old Ridgeback or a ten year old Boardman?

Coffee shop? No. You need food hygiene certs and the place will be full of people who want to chat about bikes all day so you can't work but they'll only spend £3 on a coffee whilst charging their phones and using your wifi.

Shop rides? Great, but who is leading them? Do they have qualifications and liability insurance? People will turn up 10 minutes early and say their gears don't work so you fix them for free to get them on the ride. The regulars become your "friends" so want everything done at mates rates and want you to teach them how to maintain their bikes so they don't need you anymore.

Doing repairs only? Currently no parts supply unless you buy fake stuff on AliExpress which you are covering the warranty for. Plus you get no work at all from November to February. Last winter we took less than £150 a month in repair labour for four months.

Not bothering with Cytech? Well that's fair, Cytech is rubbish but you have to have something or you can't get liability insurance.

Specialising in e-bikes and re-celling batteries etc? Actually this really could work. Learn everything about e-bikes and get handy with a soldering iron. Make yourself the TF Tuned of the e-bike world. Offer exemplary service and fix things that no-one else can. Operate out of a cheap industrial unit, fit after market (legal) Bafung kits to peoples own bikes and make small back up range extender batteries etc. If I had to go back to making money from bikes that's what I would do. High value, low volume work that even most bike shops can't do.

In reality though I'd have to be desperate to go back to a bike shop. I now work in facilities management - a great variety of compliance, contractor contracts and repairs so I still get to use tools. Last week though I got a call mid afternoon to say that one of the public toilets in a library had poo on the floor. Yes, an adult human had poo'd on the floor in a public toilet. Even my Labrador knows not to do that. So I spent half an hour clearing up poo and disinfecting the floor. And that was still a better day than most of my days in a bike shop.

Yes, an adult human had poo’d on the floor in a public toilet.

Just out of curiosity... did they wipe their bum? and if so was the loo roll on the floor or in the bowl?

Outside of stock so many of the issues seem like they could be solved with:

Be slightly better x charge more. Also let people come in with there own gear from chain reaction if they want. Just charge a corkage.

7/10 bike shops can’t bleed / adjust a set of hydro brakes well.

9/10 can’t service suspension forks or dropper seat posts.

X/10 charge stupid money for setting up tubeless.

If family have 2x £5k bikes + 2x BSO’s for kids they probably won’t be too bothered paying £50+ ph labour. Charge flat fee corkage based on product type e.g Pads £2 a set, chain-set £15 kind of thing.

All other advice sounds good. I’m not in industry so take with a pinch of salt. Just observing who is doing well with a one month wait on service.

Only working on high end bikes? No, I thought I’d do that but it doesn’t work. You get a family come in with two nice bikes and two BSO’s. Are you going to tell them they have to take the crap bikes somewhere else? So you do their bikes, then their mate comes in with a BSO. “You did my mates bike which is the same as mine, why won’t you do mine?” Plus where do you draw the line? An “as new” Carrera or a beaten up, rusty Rockhopper? A five year old Ridgeback or a ten year old Boardman?

All I was getting at is that there's no obligation to provide a service that doesn't make you money. Start with a policy, position yourself and explain what+why, etc. Being able to say no, etc - which would suggest there's enough business around for you to be able to choose.
I know a chap who ran a shop well that way, not saying it works in every area or for everyone though. It might be a misjudgement of your market or it might be sound business sense but it's up to the business owner to decide, if there is a choice.

And that was still a better day than most of my days in a bike shop.

Sort of lol...! Guessing you don't miss it.

This is an absolutely brilliant thread of knowledge and information. Stw at it's very best

X/10 charge stupid money for setting up tubeless.

go on then, how much for setting a wheel up tubeless, so thats taping, seating the tyre, supplying valves and sealant? a job 8/10 diy customers seem to have no concept of how to do properly ime.

as for only servicing high end bikes. We do a simple 2 minute bike check if the BSO rolls up, it's easy to let the customer know then that the cost of repair will be 5 x the original cost of the bike. usually because they have ridden it into the ground. The amount of times i've explained that yes their 8 speed chain does wear after 8 years of constant use and that it also wears other components. and ask if they actually store it in the sea?

Is this the first thread in forum history where everyone agrees?

and ask if they actually store it in the sea?

: )

https://www.instagram.com/mtbmechanicalsympathy/?hl=en - a great IG account along those lines

#yourbikehatesyou is also a source of many a gem

Read the Retrobike thread. Jon seems to have his head screwed on; he knew what he was getting into and had experience and contacts. Look at the pictures of the shop; just how much capital has he sunk into stock? Read, and inwardly digest, the part where he took no wages for the first 12 months but was often/usually working 16 hour days. Look at how he used his contacts to get the build contract for a bespoke frame builder and then look at the quality of his work; while he won't be chucking them together in a couple of hours, he certainly won't be dragging his heels. Look at his location; near a largeish city with properly scoped out competition, not in the middle of bum**** nowhere.

If you can do what he did, it might be a success. If not, it will certainly be a failure.

Finally, think long and hard about why you are considering this; if it's because you love bikes, biking and bikers be warned that if it doesn't work out it may ruin your love of the sport. Ask me how I know...

Is this the first thread in forum history where everyone agrees?

My first inclination was to agree with you, but then I thought about it and now I'm not so sure.

I worked in a bike shop that was part of a chain for over 10 years and did pretty much every role.

I think it’s important to remember some people do make it work. Some shops in the right location with the right stock are doing alright. I don’t imagine the owners are going to be paying cash for a new Bentley anytime soon but they can have a fun job that pays ok if you are not too bothered about making lots of money.

If you want to make a comfortable living financially I’m sure there is easier routes.

@rOcKeTdOg

go on then, how much for setting a wheel up tubeless, so thats taping, seating the tyre, supplying valves and sealant? a job 8/10 diy customers seem to have no concept of how to do properly ime.

You forgot, remove gorilla tape then spend 30 minutes removing the gum sticky stuff that's left behind.

I was chatting to a rep last week. She earned over £60k a year and gets a company car. Lots of driving and listening to pod casts and meeting people. Still gets bike discount and doesn't end up hating bikes. That seems like the smart choice to me if you want to work in the bike industry.

Be slightly better x charge more.

X/10 charge stupid money for setting up tubeless

So which is it? Charging more or stop charging stupid money?

Yes, an adult human had poo’d on the floor in a public toilet.

Just out of curiosity… did they wipe their bum? and if so was the loo roll on the floor or in the bowl?

I have no idea! And the question never occurred to me until now.

All I was getting at is that there’s no obligation to provide a service that doesn’t make you money. Start with a policy, position yourself and explain what+why, etc. Being able to say no, etc – which would suggest there’s enough business around for you to be able to choose.

Yes, you can have that approach. I used to quote some jobs at silly money to either discourage the customer or if they went for it, the pain was offset somewhat. I do know of several cases where it's backfired though. One customer brought a horrible old tourer in for a full service which we did and the customer was happy. He then brought in his S-Works Tarmac as he trusted us to do a good job. He said another shop had turned down the tourer so missed out on the S-Works. He turned into a very good regular customer.

Sort of lol…! Guessing you don’t miss it.

No. Not for a second. Actually there is less poo in this job than there was fixing bikes. So many come in covered in dogsh1t.

Coffee shop? No. You need food hygiene certs and the place will be full of people who want to chat about bikes all day so you can’t work but they’ll only spend £3 on a coffee whilst charging their phones and using your wifi.

On the other hand, the markup on coffee is immense - my dad worked in the bakery trade for his entire working life and reckoned the most expensive part of a takeaway coffee is the cup.

In theory if you do bike repair + coffee there could be a viable model there, assuming the coffee is decent and there isn’t a good independent coffee shop locally already.

Will there be a fat boys discount?? 😀

In theory if you do bike repair + coffee there could be a viable model there, assuming the coffee is decent and there isn’t a good independent coffee shop locally already.

A mate did a "bike-themed" coffee shop for a while, using it as a hub to build a bike touring / guiding business from and he ran a few events as well - audax / basic Sportive type stuff. Once you're set up for that (after the initial costs of signage etc) that's actually not a bad income stream.

Don't expect to run a shop on top of it though, you need staff dedicated to the cafe part and staff dedicated to the bike/workshop part; you can't be having the mechanic coming to front of house every 5 minutes to make coffee.

In theory if you do bike repair + coffee there could be a viable model there, assuming the coffee is decent and there isn’t a good independent coffee shop locally already.

The Yorkshire cycling hub is in the middle of nowhere. You get there by single lanes with passing places. Everytime I've been the cafe is really busy. Mrs D likes going here just to eat. I expect they've spent a lot of money but it's a great set up. Perhaps in the right place a cycling cafe can work well.

http://www.yorkshirecyclehub.co.uk/

Location is everything, though, isn’t it?

This is a bit like the thread where someone asked about setting up a bike business and what they should sell, and got answers that weren’t quite what they were looking for, such as ‘decent commuting clothing’

The OP has gone very quiet, wondering what his thoughts are now?

I would like to thank everyone for their honest opinions, I had an idea that the responses would be along these lines but, nothing is easy, I currently work 60 hours a week in a pretty thankless job where most customers do not trust anything you say, and on top of this I have almost a 1 hour commute to and from work. Some of the thoughts I really appreciate and take on board.

Good luck op. Let us know how you get on

I've skimmed through this thread and might well have a proper read later, but comments around always working on knackered bikes stood out.

Historically it's been a race to the bottom with regards the pricing of repairs. Both in terms of $ per hour and properly assessing a bike. If someone comes in with a BSO, and you give a fair assessment of the bike and what it needs (properly a lot!), with good communication so the customer understands that bike will never perform great, if they say yes to the repair, then great! You get to do a profitable easy job and the customer gets what they agreed to. They are more likely to just buy another bike or try and fix it themselves but both of those situations are better than you fixing it at a loss.
Mechanics can also spend way too long trying to resurrect a cheap / old part......removing a front derailleur and trying to unseize it for an hour. If the customer wants to pay the labour to do that, great but otherwise tell them the potential labour charge to do that work, or replace the part.
Some people are actually really happy to spend significant money on an old bike for sentimental reasons. Don't assume that just because it's old that you should be doing a cheap job on it, or throwing away labour. I recently did a $500+ repair on an old Fisher CR7 which I bet most mechanics now would think is a POS, but it's a rad old bike and the customer had owned it since new and wanted it running really well. He came back in the shop a couple of weeks later to say how much he great the bike was riding now. Win / win.

But yeah, don't open a retail store now 😉

OP if this is your dream then make it happen. I walked out of a highly paid job to become an author. Never managed to make a proper career out of it but if I hadn’t made the leap I wouldn’t have the brilliant life I have now. Loads of good advice here…but if it’s nagging at you then crack on

Crack on I say all bike shop owners I know are minted !!! Driving posh cars have newest best bikes too 🙂