New bike issues for my wife - wheel sizing and coaching advice?

Options I can see;
1 - Compromise by lowering the saddle hugely and hope her knees are OK 🫣
2 - Skill training/confidence building to get used to not starting/stopping in the saddle
3 - Order a 27.5” wheel set with new 2.25” tyres so axles are ~20mm lower?

https://flic.kr/p/2oAij1k

4. Dropper post

she was expecting to touch the floor from the saddle

Surely, if your saddles the correct height no one can do this - except for those using balance bikes????

I’d suggest a good dropper post with a really good lever, so it’s super smooth and easy to drop the saddle a touch when setting off or stopping. I do this on my cargo bike when it’s heavily laden.

Surely, if your saddles the correct height no one can do this????

Balance bike?

Thanks, hadn’t considered one actually. Might be too faffy though as she is definitely “I just want to ride it” type person and worry she would break it and get embarrassed.

Maybe drop the saddle low as a compromise while your wife gets used to the bike. I like the idea of a dropper as I’d want one but is that incompatible with the bikepacking ideas? Plus operating a dropper when you are already a bit iffy with starting and stopping may be too much

Dropper will be great for confidence IMO. A post at full mast makes hills feel much steeper. Yes it is a complication but it vastly improves riding. If it's an issue she can set it low for most riding, which solves the standover issue, but it can still be popped up when it gets pedally.

A dropper post would be a workaround, and people certainly use them if they have movement or flexibility issues for getting on or off a bike, so they're not just for descending.

Any bike coaching advice, that won’t come across as just mansplaining

I'd go to a bike shop with her, and let her try other similarly sized bikes - certainly road bikes. The penny might drop (in the nicest possible sense) that the issue is needing to compromise in terms of expectations, rather than the bike being the wrong size. Anxiety towards wanting control (including feeling like you can't get your feet down) is completely normal & understandable, but hopefully it's short term until confidence increases. Appreciate this is a tricky situation though, OP.

@qwerty - I couldn’t say it like that as it would come across as mansplaining.

@stwhannah - Thanks, any recommendations and one that isn’t limited to <50kg flyweights?

@Rubber_Buccaneer - Will be fine, rear rack to use with a dry bag means no issues.

The saddle height/feet on the ground thing is very common. To get away from accusations of "mansplaining" find out if there is a local cycle coach. A woman might be best but just hearing it from, and being trained by, a professional might be the encouragement she needs.

Brand X is go to budget option and lever is pretty good. PNW loam lever if you really love her. One up dropper & PNW loam lever even nicer, but probably overkill.

I couldn’t say it like that as it would come across as mansplaining

I'd mansplain away then. My o/h had the same "problem" when she started - the problem being that she didn't like having to move her ass off the saddle and stand over the crossbar.

Took her about a week. Zero support from me - just some mild ribbing that she was too lazy to do what every cyclist has to do - get over her fear.

She did that. Now whines about steep french descents instead.

A dropper is a great aid to confidence too.

Yeah try get a woman to explain about leg extension when pedalling.

The wife’s already a cyclist though - you mentioned a previous bike?
She’s been riding with the seat that low. It’s very tough on the knees.

There are “town” bikes with super slack seat angles and long chainstays (so slightly “reclined”) designed to allow proper leg extension and then both feet down when stopped. Electra I think. Probably those don’t suit your use unfortunately.

I guess you need something like this, but ideally with a female coach

And meanwhile find a way to get the seat low - gradually working upwards. I think the both feet on floor desire is pretty common amongst less experienced riders.
Temporary 275 wheels. Are you near brighton? I could loan

Share some links of one of the many YouTube videos of how to set saddle height/bike fit.

For confidence you could suggest easy rides with the bike how she is used to it and try incremental changes to see if she feels any benefit.

Coaching will definately help.

Katie Kookubura has a playlist for her cycling journey from novice to hill climber for inspiration?:

Best of luck with the bikepacking aspiration.

The peach color looks fantastic.

I've got short legs and always ride small frames, I've just been out to the garage and checked, sat on the saddle my feet are around 6" off the floor, stood straddling the top tube I have to have my sacrum slammed into the saddle nose to allow my crotch any space. It's never an issue out riding.

As said above she might need to reprogramme her dismount to being with her butt off the saddle and in doing so slightly lean the bike to one side when stood straddling the bike. I do this unconsciously and never have to consider it.

Same with bum on the back 29" wheel on steep stuff, it can touch (sometimes does) but often doesn't, a non issue really.

A 54cm 26" LHT (flat bar) has an ETT of 555 and her new KM is 615, standover she looses 5mm on the KM. That's quite a hike of 60mm in ETT, add in the jump from 26" to 29" and maybe it all feels a bit big.

You sure a medium KM is the right size?

Point of order, mansplaining is specifically a bloke explaining something that the woman already knows [ possibly much more] about than the man.

Pointing out that feet aren't supposed to go on the floor from a decent cycling position isn't mansplaining in this instance. Though of course it would be if you did it to Rachel Atherton.

Even on my tourer I am just touching the ground with one tip toe if sitting in the saddle. I had to consciously check for a thread elsewhere because it is all muscle memory subconscious stuff. Ft on anything other than momentary stops I stop off the saddle with the bike leaned to one side so my foot is flat.

For OP - smaller wheels/tyres combined with less than ideal pedalling height seems the way to go. Maybe make further adjustments once she is familiar with the bike.

A lot of replies, hopefully haven’t missed too much.

Thanks for dropper and lever recommendations. She does follow Katie Kookaburra already, partly what inspired her.

Good call on the cycling coach, she has had some training plans from someone locally so worth a shot.

@mudfish - Super kind of you to offer, I’m in London so just too far as we don’t have a car right now. But much appreciated.

@chevychase - No way I can take that approach, would kill the joy of trying something new that I have been playing the long game on for a while and be very counter productive. Glad you got a good result though! 😂

@qwerty - She has a 120mm stem on her 54cm LHT, I put a 60mm stem on the Karate Monkey so it should just about even out the much longer effective top tube. She’s 5’8” so same height as me but has longer legs.

She can’t put both feet on the floor currently, just leans over to put her left toe on the floor each time (took a lot of subtle “twits like” adjusting 3mm higher until she rumbled me and asked for slightly lower).

Let her set the saddle how she likes. Then find a decent ladies riding group like Breeze, and they should "womansplain" tips as required.

My daughter only raised her saddle when it was suggested by a mate who is a coach. Dad's and partners know nothing.

Is the problem that she wants both feet on the ground but the saddle is already slammed as low as it will go? In that case, a dropper is just going to result in a higher saddle even when dropped, due to the height of the collar. You may also find the saddle is too high when it's raised.

PS Is a medium the right size? It's not all about standover and seat tube length now, it's length as well. I'm not sure buying a medium and fitting a shorter stem to make it fit is the best option, what does the manufacturer size guide recommended?

Problem is she wanted to be the same distance from the floor whilst in the saddle. However the bottom bracket and wheel centres are higher on the new bike. This was only achievable by putting the saddle “too low”, which meant her knees were more bent at bottom of pedal stroke than ideal.

Now adjusted again as a compromise, she can just about get a toe on the ground but is in a less good pedaling position. Will see how she gets on before trying to fix/buy more stuff.

Messy shed pic as it currently has half our loft in it. Two good handfuls of seatpost showing so I think a small would not be a better choice.

She has joined “velociposse” recently, I hope she has fun with the other women and they can do all the top tips/training suggestions etc. as or when required.

https://flic.kr/p/2oAm7xm

Personally I like a long reach and a shirt stem but each to their own. Hope it all works out. New bike sounds pretty.

Surly says Small 5’4”-5’8”, Medium 5’7”-6’0”

My wife is 5’8” and wears 32” leg jeans.

Stock Karate Monkey comes with a 70mm stem so the 60mm I got is only a bit smaller than the one the complete bikes ship with. There is almost no inside frame space on a small for bottles or a frame bag, which makes it worse for bike packing.

I added up the stem lengths and effective top tubes for both and they are very similar as her LHT has a 120mm stem with flat bars.

I mean, if it doesn't work out for her, I'll take that lovely looking bike off her hands...😎

I have been pretty tempted myself! 😅

There is almost no inside frame space on a small for bottles or a frame bag, which makes it worse for bike packing.

This is true. But then it's just a thing you need to find a way around. We've got bar bags and a seat bag, plus old rack and panniers if mrs_oab needs on her small frame.

MY other half was the same, we started with an XS ladies cannondale, which she loved, but her toes overlapped.
We had a year and graduated to a Whyte T140 in a small,

now another year later we are on a Whyte E160 in medium the correct size and now she has a lot of confidence in riding a 'big' bike

As said above, would a dropper post work?

Feels to me that you both should've gone to a bike shop, tried a few and bought the one that was 'judged' (by her) to fit best letting the shop assistant do the 'hard work'.

What length are the cranks? That has a small, but meaningful, effect on saddle height too. I actually prefer shorter cranks, from a pedalling/power perspective, for increased ground clearance and in terms of saddle-wheel luggage space, but it does mean my saddle has to be a little higher.

My wife was exactly the same, she was never riding a bike that she couldn’t easily touch the floor on. She also wasn’t going to ride a FS.

Dropper post was the answer, ran it a bit lower as she got used to it and now it’s use is second nature so the seat is at the correct height 🙂 interestingly, we swapped bikes (FS enduro :O) a while ago and the reverb on the new bike didn’t feel “easy enough” so a brand x has gone on and all is good again!

Definitely a dropper post

i realised pretty soon with my lad that it was more beneficial than any weight penalty..
he's been riding for a few months even with the seat a bit too low, and yesterday in the new forest he got me to bump it up an inch or so as his confidence increased to almost the correct height

I absolutely cannot touch the floor on ay of my bikes from the saddle at the correct pedalling height.. possibly my commuter on tip toes and a slight lean
I don't think wheel size comes into it much as they keep the BB height from ground somewhat similar?

I use my dropper to make getting on and off easier, might as well if it's there.

For your wife, could you help her get comfortable with stepping forward out the saddle when stopping? Maybe steady the bike while she practices stepping on and off the pedals a few times? I'm sure it feels natural for most of us but can be unnerving if you're used to staying seated and leaning the bike to stop.

I am a bike fitter.

I had a client come in the other day with the same desire. She wanted to be able to put her feet on ground while on the saddle.
So, she had her saddle very low, but of course, that lead to pain in the front of the knees.

I have the advantage of having cameras set up, to measure and show the client their actual knee angles, and then like Hannah said, suggested a dropper post, to ‘have your cake and eat it too’.

Sliding the saddle back as far as possible helpt a little bit.

Also, a short nose saddle like a Specialized Power, can help with making more room over the lowest point of the top tube, helping to make the traditional ‘slide off saddle and straddle toptube’ easier.

We have a WeeRide on one bike for taking our 2yr old out. I just fitted a dropper to it because I was feeling unsafe getting on and off with the saddle at the 'right' height. Works a charm.

a short nose saddle like a Specialized Power

That's a good call, the Power Expert lops around 30mm off the front of the saddle, pretty sure they are unisex saddles, you just choose the width to fit your sit bones, the cut out works for both sexes.

So, spoke to my wife again after work today.

She’s keen for me to not spend any more money right now and would like some time trying it out. She wouldn’t want a dropper as it’s something else for me to fix/maintain, but could be more open to changing how she rides.

After watching all the other cyclists in her group ride yesterday she is open to trying out different ways of getting on and off. She could see how standing whilst braking or being able to get off on rough ground easily could help her.

She wants to have a try out in our local park with me at the weekend and even mentioned being keen to try and roll the little pump track of all things as long as I watched her 😂

So a bit of a win, which might help make things easier in the future.

Also have an Ergon women’s saddle knocking around with quite a short nose.

A bit of an update, all going well so far actually! Thanks for the pointers.

She really liked her new bike, enjoyed riding it and after a few goes decided the seat was too low as it made her legs feel cramped. So she asked me to raise it and has now adapted how she gets on/off it so doesn’t have to have a foot on the floor each time.

So I’m counting this as a win, as she is keen to do some exploring around the Lee Valley and Epping Forrest trails next week when we are both on holiday 🤞