We are having some trouble with the lower headset on my partner's new Decathlon MTB. It came loose during the 4th ride and i disassembled it but I don't think it was ever right looking at it. Something about the lower race doesn't seem right because when I took it apart and stacked all the parts on the fork, they just move around rather than 'sitting' against each other, and assembling it all back into the headtube still results in a huge amount of movement. It's like the wrong crown race has been used or something.
I'll be taking it back to Decathlon but just as a sense check am I missing anything here?
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Yeah that’s not right.
Flip that lower bearing the other way. See how that feels.
Will give that a try. Don't think that will help with the metal ring thing that seems to drop out and isn't held in by anything but friction but that may just be crap design of the headset rather than it being wrong per say.
Did you take a picture before you took it apart?
Did you take a picture before you took it apart?
Yeah, the two photos of it assembled are after we just got back from having to walk the last mile home. The disassembled photos are after I took it apart, but it looks exactly the same now I've reassembled it. Should have made that clearer, sorry.
Will give that a try. Don’t think that will help with the metal ring thing that seems to drop out and isn’t held in by anything but friction but that may just be crap design of the headset rather than it being wrong per say.
Yeah, there looks to be a few too many parts there! What bike is it?
Yeah, there looks to be a few too many parts there! What bike is it?
It's this.
https://www.decathlon.co.uk/p/women-s-27-5-electric-mountain-bike-e-st-500/_/R-p-335096?mc=8655218
Appreciate it's 'cheap' for an electric MTB but at 1500 quid it still wasn't actually cheap and to be fair she loves it which is what I had hoped when we got her into bike riding.
I guess my hope is that if I take it back they'll replace the actual headset rather than bodge it once I've left it with them and fob me off or something. Their bikes are decent value but the customer service isnt the best.
So… if assembled in wrong order before you got it, and ridden before you’d noticed (how could you?) then I’d be asking for a whole new headset not just a regrease and reassembly. Good luck.
It looks like there are three pieces there, or am I seeing it wrong?
The bearing race is the right way up for a ball race, but the plastic shim fitted to the crown race is wrong - try it without?
To clarify, the crown race is the part you’ve named ‘what’s this” The black plastic parts are probably some sort of crude muck guard.
There's actually 4 parts there, have taken a couple more photos
I think that the bit at the bottom of the stack should actually be on the top and fitting into the bottom of the headtube, with the bearing assembly sitting in it, bearing facing down and sitting on the race?
I’d be surprised if they can replace the headset, as I doubt they’ll even be able to get spare parts for it?
I’m afraid to say, that headset looks very much BSO to me, and as such won’t be designed to be serviceable.
I think that the bit at the bottom of the stack should actually be on the top and fitting into the bottom of the headtube, with the bearing assembly sitting in it, bearing facing down and sitting on the race?
There is a bearing race fitted into the frame also (not pictured). The caged bearings sit into that and does fit that fine, its the parts below that which seem to be the issue.
Thanks
What’s still in the bottom of the headtube? Photo from below might tell us something.
EDIT: ah, seen your new post.
There’s already a crown race fitted to the fork, and for bonus you’ve got a caged-ball one sitting on top. I’d be asking the fundamental question is a caged-ball headset suitable for the frame? What does the underside of the headtube look like - is it concave/rounded to accept the ball race?
Cripes, I've only just noticed after taking those last photos that the part of the headset that's pressed into the frame isn't straight... Not sure if that's happened whilst riding hence it has 'become' loose, I'm guessing so but not sure how that even happens...
Frustrated at this whole thing to say the least and hoping it's not somehow my fault although you'd think 4 rides in pretty much any issue like this would be a warranty claim right?
The beating cage is upside-down in the first photo. The bearings should sit on the crown race and be held between the crown race and the bottom cup bearing surface when assembled. There might also be a seal there, but it would need to sit outside the crown race and not interfere with the contact between bearings and races. I wonder whether the inner and outer seals from the top headset have been used when assembling the bottom, preventing things from going together right?
OK, just seen the photo of headtube - bearing race fits fine, but still think you’ve got the wrong crown race fitted to the fork - part sequence should be: ball race, convex crown race, large plastic dust shield and ditch small plastic ring and big crown race.
OK, just seen the photo of headtube – bearing race fits fine, but still think you’ve got the wrong crown race fitted to the fork – part sequence should be: ball race, convex crown race, large plastic dust shield and ditch small plastic ring and big crown race.
@dovebiker do you think the part pressed into the frame is meant to be on an angle like it is on my most recent photo?
Thanks
@dovebiker do you think the part pressed into the frame is meant to be on an angle like it is on my most recent photo?
I don’t think so.
I’d be taking it back and asking them to resolve. It shouldn’t have collapsed like that after 4 rides.
I think that the upper race in the frame is fitted skew, and so they’ve shoved a load of crap under the crown race to compensate so that it can tighten down.
Thanks all, needed a sense check and you've provided it (should have been obvious to me but sometimes it takes me a minute...).
I’d be taking it back and asking them to resolve. It shouldn’t have collapsed like that after 4 rides.
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The photos of it assembled 5 & 6 shows a slot for a screwdriver to Pry it off the forks which suggests it's upside down but it also sort of looks like it's from another headset, it's similar to a reducer crown race for a cartridge bearing headset that allows a fork with a straight steerer to fit a frame with a 1.5 lower bearing. It's a bit bizarre n shoddily executed, so many bits I can't work it out, the wonky bit pressed into the frame is shocking, it's probably a totally wrong headset for the frame.
I’ve heard horror stories about Decathlon stores taking ages to resolve issues. AFAIK, there’s no one in the store who can do it, so they need to be sent back to the central depot where their bike mechanic can fix it.
Please let us know how you get on.
Specs say that it’s a tapered headtube, so I wonder if you could get the bearing race out and press in some headset cups and fit some proper bearings?
That would also open up the possibility to upgrade the fork in future if your girlfriend really gets into it?
I'm a bit of an amateur mechanic and have only used cartridge headsets, so I'm not sure if I can add anything, but as someone has already said, the bearings look upside down, surely the bearings should be running in the track on the (metal) crown race, but there's a flat surface downwards.
It looks like the balls have been running against the internal plastic cup which looks fairly gouged up. I'm surprised the steering wasn't really graunchy.
I’ve heard horror stories about Decathlon stores taking ages to resolve issues. AFAIK, there’s no one in the store who can do it, so they need to be sent back to the central depot where their bike mechanic can fix it.
Please let us know how you get on.
Specs say that it’s a tapered headtube, so I wonder if you could get the bearing race out and press in some headset cups and fit some proper bearings?
That would also open up the possibility to upgrade the fork in future if your girlfriend really gets into it?
Will update. We're going to take it to the shop on the weekend but I am expecting hassle and yeah I can't see them resolving that in-store.
Luckily it's the winter and we'd be doing far less cycling right now anyway.
For a brand that is trying to push an image of competing with the big boys and the amount of positive marketing coverage they seem to be getting at the minute for their value, it's a shame when things like this happen and let them down.
It's definitely a tapered head tube, upgrading the forks was always on the agenda for the future if she sticks with it. Hopefully shit like this isn't putting her off early on...
It looks like the balls have been running against the internal plastic cup which looks fairly gouged up. I’m surprised the steering wasn’t really graunchy.
It does look very chewed up now you mention it. I'm surprised it was steering smooth too.
Crown race reducer is the bottom black ring - fitted at a guess as the headset is for a tapered fork
Then the crown race
Black plastic "seal"
Bearings
Okay so if the specs say it's a tapered headtube there should be a ZS56 lower cup installed for a cartridge bearing which would explain what looks like a reducer crown on the straight steerer in the first photo of your 5th post. They've completely fudged it with parts that shouldn't be there. Looking at photos of the bike in the decathlon link you can see the lip of a ZS lower cup at the bottom of the headtube.
Do you think there's any risk that the frame itself has been damaged or ovaled from this? It's done about 40 miles of gentle riding.
Oxford one has a bike mechanic on site if you’re anywhere near. Otherwise I’d just but a decent one and fit it.
I think it'll be okay but you'll a need a half decent mechanic to fix it, not sure they exist at decathlon though.
True, I could just bite the bullet and take it somewhere proper to have a decent one fitted.
If you can tap out that wonky race pressed into the headtube and if it's a 56mm headtube I can send you a nukeproof ZS56 lower headset then you can just buy a nukeproof reducer crown race and remove the race thats fitted on the forks and press the cup into the frame or let a decent bike shop press it in for you.
Whilst it is a drop in zs56 headtube/set. These cheap headsets still work because you press in a headset and use a race. I had same on my Occam (2020).
But agree, looks like there is at least one piece too many on the bottom.
What's that jagged hole in this pic. Not where the cables go through the frame hopefully... If it is then I would be getting a file in there if poss....
Thanks both I'll give it a measure tomorrow at some point and check what the definite size is 👍
What’s that jagged hole in this pic. Not where the cables go through the frame hopefully… If it is then I would be getting a file in there if poss….
No internal routing on this bike.
No internal routing on this bike.
👍
Might be the image but that pressed in cup doesn't look straight either.
To me it looks like the bottom lip of the lower cup has snapped off and is sitting on the top of the fork crown (the largest ring), the rest of the cup has pushed up in to the head tube.
Looks to me like that isn’t a tapered steerer on the forks. Therefore they have tried to bodge some sort of reducer lower headset.
If the spec list states a tapered fork, I would expect a tapered fork, not a straight steerer with a bodge.
Either way, this should not be your problem to solve. Since any fix would be a bodge in terms of the lack of a tapered steerer, and this can’t be the only bike that they have sold with this arrangement, unfortunately it needs to go back to Decathlon.
Just go back and tell them STW sent you.
That'll get it sorted quick smart.
The lower headset cup hasn't been fitted properly. That needs to be fully seated.
It's hard to see, but it looks like it's either a tapered steerer that they've tried to bodge to use a 1 1/8 lower headset, or they've put a 1.5" adapter onto a straight steerer fork, then tried to bodge it to fit a 1 1/8 headset on top of that.
I would remove the lower crown race from the fork to see what steerer it is. If it's a tapered steerer fork and a 44 mm internal head tube, I think you will need to fit an external cup 44 mm lower headset. If it's a straight steerer fork, I think you just need to remove the bits under the lower race and then fit the race back onto the steerer (and seat the headset cup too, obviously.)
As it's a safety critical part, I would just buy a new headset from CRC or someone for peace of mind and then try to claim the cost of that back from the shop. Whoever fitted that has no idea what they're doing or how unsafe it is. If it's a straight steerer fork, I think you need a headset like this:
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/p/brand-x-semi-integrated-44iiss-sealed-headset
The lower headset cup hasn’t been fitted properly
the bike would not have been rideable with it at that angle. I wonder if it was loose and now isn't sitting right.
it's def a straight 1.125 steerer.
I'd be sending those photos to their customer service Twitter/X and see how they react. That's been bodged to get it sold...Very poor
That'd also be worth doing - as would going over the rest of the bike with a fine tooth comb...if you want a job doing right, etc.
To me it looks like the bottom lip of the lower cup has snapped off and is sitting on the top of the fork crown (the largest ring), the rest of the cup has pushed up in to the head tube.
Possibly pre-loaded again the friction in an incompletely pressed cup, with everything shifting (and breaking) on a big (or not so big) hit?
I still think that the bearing cage looks upside-down and eating its way through the cup. I've never seen a plastic headset cup either (which doesn't mean they don't exist).
What’s that jagged hole in this pic
Probably to allow hot air/gas to escape when the frame is being welded during manufacturing. If you weld an alloy tube at both ends without a vent hole the last bit of seam can blow through when the hot gas inside has nowhere else to go. It does look rough to say the least tho
a reducer isn’t necessarily a bodge, obviously.
It is if the sales description mentioned a tapered fork.....
This is definitely a case of taking it back. It really isn;t clear from the random looking collection of circular objects masquerading as a headset what order they should go in, and indeed whether they are even meant to work together!
It is if the sales description mentioned a tapered fork…..
Does it?
Even if so, it should/can work fine mechanically generally (obviously an issue in this case), so not necessarily a bodge, more a misdescription (if your assumption is correct).
All headtubes have holes where the down and top tubes attach, for the reason stated above. It looks rough because it’s a £1500 ebike i.e. it’s a £350 BSO with a motor and battery bolted on.
Agreed. Not cheap, but not really fit for purpose either. It's meant for occasional use at best IMO.
From the technical part of the description
Frame
ROCKRIDER COMFORT GEOMETRY FRAME in 6061 aluminium with hydroformed tubes
12x148 mm Boost
Seat tube diameter: 31.6 mm
Tapered head tube
1 bottle cage mounting point
Only says tapered headtube. Probably should have a tapered steerer but looks like they have bodged it
I'd bite the bullet and go buy myself a decent headset with cartridge bearings from the likes of Cane Creek or FSA (or Hope or Rideworks if you can stretch to it) and fit it myself, vs all the faff of at least 2 trips to the bike shop + no bike for a week, then still not being comfortable as to whether they got it right or ballsed it up again.
But that's me, and I know that when I do work on a bike or car, it's right. Because I know what I'm doing and I'm careful with my own stuff.
Quite a few budget bikes have moved onto a better tapered headtube frame but on the cheaper models still run a straight steerer budget fork (mostly Suntour).
On the basis that (a) that is a very cheap headset and (b) something has been fitted incorrectly - I’d just buy a headset to fit that has better quality metal parts and cartridge bearings. You may need to take the bike to a decent bike shop to identify the exact parts you need and get them bought or ordered in.
That frame looks like it is a zs style one - so using press in internal cups. The Decathlon website is terrible for giving full detail of bike specs though, so hard to say if zs 44/56 etc or something else. Either way, the lower cup needs to have a reducer in it so that it fits in the bigger tapered frame lower cup position, but can go round a 1/18th” straight steerer.
The alternative might be weeks waiting for Decathlon to sort their life out.
I still think that the bearing cage looks upside-down and eating its way through the cup. I’ve never seen a plastic headset cup either (which doesn’t mean they don’t exist).
With caged bearing headsets, the solid ring points down on the bottom race and up on the top race. The inner bearing surface (crown race in this case) should be stepped to ensure the cage doesn't bind on anything. If you had the ring at the top, the race in the head tube would just crush it. It's an angular bearing, you just need to consider the cross section of the assembly to see this.
Though, to be frank, i don't think it'd matter in the slightest on this particular set up, looks like they've dropped a box of random headsets and picked up bits they think might work.
Measured the head tube today and it is a 44mm upper 56mm lower. I think the suggestions to just replace the thing with a proper headset myself are sensible rather than deal with Decathlon...
Any idea what a shop would charge to fit a headset if i supplied it? Am i better off investing in a headset press so i can do it myself in future?
NB. the third image in the OP seems to show the crown race for a cartridge bearing headset as well…
So it really is a random mismatch of headsets, and adaptors.
Yes, they seem to have just stuffed random stuff in there. I suspect it's because the lower cup was crooked and they couldn't get the play out of it so they just tried to shim it out thinking that would take care of the play.
Any idea what a shop would charge to fit a headset if i supplied it? Am i better off investing in a headset press so i can do it myself in future?
It's a five minute job with the correct tool, so depends on how well you know your LBS and how much Decathlon tax they charge you?
If you've got cycling buddies, then it's likely that one of them will already own a headset press that you could borrow?
Looks to me like the lower heasdset cup has failed.
Any idea what a shop would charge to fit a headset if i supplied it? Am i better off investing in a headset press so i can do it myself in future?
Why not get the LBS to supply and fit then all responsibility for work lies with them?
Drift the old one out with screwdriver carefully and new headset should drop in. No tools needed. Crown race on forks possibly if not a split race
If it’s pressed in cups they won’t just drop in - you’ll need to press them in.
Burton tools do a cheap headset press - I’ve got one and it does the job.
With caged bearing headsets, the solid ring points down on the bottom race and up on the top race. The inner bearing surface (crown race in this case) should be stepped to ensure the cage doesn’t bind on anything.
Thanks for taking the time to correct me (I've only ever used cartridge headsets). I like to try and join in these 'helping out' threads but am rather limited in experience I'm afraid. 🫤
That bottom caged bearing has been fitted upsidedown - if that first photo is as it was disassembled.
If you remove the caged bearing and turn it over you'll notice the 'non bearing side' has a flat surface - this should sit against the corresponding flat face within the lower cup (thats pressed in the frame).
As it's been fitted incorrectly the flat bearing face has instead been grinding on the 'radius ball race' of the lower crown race. If you turn the bearing over you'll notice the 'balls' fit in the radius ball race surface correctly, however the whole headset is damaged and needs replacing
It's the cheapest type of headset available normally found in 1980's Raleigh's and general BSO's whichis why non of the above bling bike STWers have got the correct answer!
Just waking this one up again, finally got round to trying to fit the Nukeproof ZS56 with reducer race someone linked earlier but with the old lower cup removed the headtube actually measures 54mm so I take it I need to find a ZS54 with a suitable reducer crown race?
I also notched the frame slightly when tapping the old cup out so will have to file the burr down a bit I guess.
Should have accepted my lack of expertise and took it straight to shop to sort but you live and learn!