You don't need to be an 'investor' to invest in Singletrack: 6 days left: 95% of target - Find out more
Well as you may have gathered, me and the Bird Aether7 never bonded, not ever. Some trails like the blues at BPW it was great, even some of Swinley stuff too, but some I just couldn't get it around. I raced it at Wales, did BPW, 417, FoD and Swinley but we never gelled.
So a deal came up in a G170 and I took the plunge.
Just sitting on it you can tell right away how low and long the Bird is. Only just put it together so not tested yet. Need to bin the crazy short stem for a 35mm one, will get that ordered tonight. But should get to test tomorrow.
Excited!
[img] 
[/img]
[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/51430698893/ ]2021-09-06_06-52-36[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url] - [url= https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dariogf.flickr2BBcode_lite ]Flickr2BBcode LITE[/url]
First jobs all done. Fitting a new spoke, then cleaning top to bottom, set fork pressure and rear sag on coul, set brakes, fit bars, saddle and set levers. Phew. Oh yeah, tyres too.
Can't really go wrong with bikes like the Whyte's, solid designs, solid frames and decent kit, just a bike i can't really get on with, had a T130 but i have a skeletal issue so struggled badly due to the heightened standover due to the seattube brace, i'd hazard a guess Whyte must be coming up with a revamp soon to get back in with the new crowd thinking on this type of thing!
Very nice. I love my Whyte 🙂 (albeit the tamer T130)
That's a lot of bike. Hope you like it better than the LLS
🙂
It is indeed a big old beast. But uphill Kom are not on my list. When I bought the Bird the thoughts were that a lot of riding would be a bit more XC this year, bit that's not worked out at all, it's steeper and harder all the time. So I think this ticks the boxes and even if a bit excessive, will be awesome in the Southern Enduro races.
If your 160 was too LLS, then I suppose there’s a good chance this’ll work out
Oh yeah, never, ever remove the seatpost cable on a whyte, unless replacing it with a wireless option ;o)
I am. Later this week
Great riding frame. I spent a few months on one in the Tweed Valley. Amazingly capable bike.
“ Just sitting on it you can tell right away how low and long the Bird is.”
The funny thing is that if it’s a large too then the geometry is almost identical to the Bird bar the latter having more reach and less stack and vice versa. Use a 35mm higher rise bar and 10mm shorter stem on the Bird and I’m not sure you’d be able to tell them apart (until you notice the extra travel).
“ Just sitting on it you can tell right away how low and long the Bird is.”
The funny thing is that if it’s a large too then the geometry is almost identical to the Bird bar the latter having more reach and less stack and vice versa. Use a 35mm higher rise bar and 10mm shorter stem on the Bird and I’m not sure you’d be able to tell them apart (until you notice the extra travel).
I tried higher bars on the Bird 40mm Nukeproof. I had 40mm of spacers under the stem too.
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51433028439_f4e31957da_c.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51433028439_f4e31957da_c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mmXHsp ]compare[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
Apart from the fork angle, i'm not sure which part is 'almost identical' from what i can see, they're completely different...
“ Apart from the fork angle, i’m not sure which part is ‘almost identical’ from what i can see, they’re completely different…”
Head angle identical
Wheelbase identical
Chainstay length only 5mm different
BB height pretty much identical once you figure in the greater sag with the Whyte
Raise the bars on the Bird to match the stack height of the Whyte and the difference in reach is then only 10mm.
Even the 0.8 deg difference in seat tube angle only requires sliding the Whyte’s saddle forward by 10mm to match.
I like Whyte as a brand just wished the full suspensions were a bit more contemporary looking. I think a revamp must be on its way.
Nice one weeksy, enjoy!*
* after cleaning and repointing the brick wall
I bet you will be much happier on the Whyte,
I dont understand the LLS thing, I dont like the feeling of being so far over the bars on descents.
I had a Whyte S150crs and found that to be an excellent bike. The only niggle was the length of the seat tube, would have been better a cm or so shorter.
* after cleaning and repointing the brick wall
Not my wall 🙂 not my problem 🙂
“ Apart from the fork angle, i’m not sure which part is ‘almost identical’ from what i can see, they’re completely different…”
Head angle identical
Wheelbase identical
Chainstay length only 5mm different
BB height pretty much identical once you figure in the greater sag with the WhyteRaise the bars on the Bird to match the stack height of the Whyte and the difference in reach is then only 10mm.
Even the 0.8 deg difference in seat tube angle only requires sliding the Whyte’s saddle forward by 10mm to match.
Well as in the past 48 hours i've owned both bikes and ridden both bikes i'm going to have to disagree. They're massively different to ride.
Premier Icon
agis2012
Free MemberI like Whyte as a brand just wished the full suspensions were a bit more contemporary looking. I think a revamp must be on its way
If anything they seem to be going backwards sadly. The 170 has far less progressive geometry than the 160 did. Like for like they lopped 20mm off the reach. You then have the suspension layout that you mention, which can have issues mounting different shocks depending on frame size and also pretty high stand over heights. Then there’s the seat tube design that appears to be borrowed from a Giant Acid. Feels like a long way from the original Whytes
TBH all of that bothers me 0%. If i wanted progressive, that implies LLS which isn't what i want. As for standover height, i'm OK with that... along with seat-tube design and frame bends, well, i don't see an issue, a bicycle is a bicycle... .i don't much care if it's bendy, really bendy, weirdly bendy or straight tubes... couldn't care less.
The bendy seat tube issue isn’t just an aesthetics thing, it messes with the saddle position a lot when going from up to down. Also, if you need to use a really tall seat height your weight can end up really far back which isn’t good for climbing. If it’s works for then grand
TBH all of that bothers me 0%
Which is why I quoted Agis, figured you wouldn’t have bought it otherwise
Surely it just comes down to if you like the ride, you gel and it gets you over, up or down what you enjoy it is all good - whatever the geometry chart says?
Isn't it funny that some bikes you think you want, lust after or buy and you just don't get on?
I was lucky enough to get my mitts on an Epic Evo recently and never a bike I thought I would get along with but after much agonising it is a fabulous bit of kit and feels "right" - makes such a difference I think.
Enjoy the bike and laugh at someone else's wall.
James
If it’s works for then grand
We'll find out the answer tonight after the boy finishes school, bit of XC followed by some jumps in the local bombhole which has a techie bit to play on too.
I think as long as you’ve bought the right size for you weeksy you’ll get on ok with it - the Aether was just one size too big for you - I reckon you’d have got on much better with an ML.
@chiefgrooveguru - whilst you make a fair point on comparing the geo with lots of changes - the reach / stack are still a bit apart. And then if weeksy is comfy on the g170 with some spacers under that stem - the reach on that bike is even shorter vs the Aether. So I’d imagine they feel quite different to ride.
@renton - I get the LLS thing to a point. I’m getting more into riding the central (and low) position that a longer front end gives you on a bike and it definitely feels like you’re more in control of the front wheel on steep downs and most of the time it’s faster. There are extremes of LLS though that don’t work for everyone. I know from 3 years riding a bike with a 481mm reach that it’s a bit too long for me and my current full suss bike is now 457mm reach. I think actually my ideal spot would be 465-470 ish but that’s being picky!
I’ve built my hardtail with a longer headtube than my Aether (same a2c / travel on the fork / wheelsize), but still kept spacers under the stem / same bars etc - I think I prefer my hardtails to have a slightly higher front end as they don’t have rear sag.
Personally I think the Whytes look a bit retro with that really bent seat tube - and their seat tube heights are also a bit on the high side (I love that my Aether has a 395mm seat tube so at 5’9 I can fit in a 200mm dropper) - but other than that they seem ok.
“the reach / stack are still a bit apart. And then if weeksy is comfy on the g170 with some spacers under that stem – the reach on that bike is even shorter vs the Aether”
Yes but it all comes back to the fact that if you raise the bars on the Aether to the height you want them on the Whyte then you end up with two very similar geometry bikes - for every 2mm you raise the bars they come 1mm back towards you due to the 65 deg head angle.
It seemed obvious from Weeksy’s previous posts that he wanted the bars higher than he ever had them and now they’re at the right height he’s comfortable.
It’s not about LLS or not, both bikes have the same BB height (that’s the low bit), the same head angle (the slack bit), and the same wheelbase and very similar reach+stack hypotenuse (which is a better way to judge long than reach alone). One bike has been set up with the bars at the right height, the other hadn’t.
I’m not going to claim to be a geometry expert, but just thinking aloud, the stack on the whyte is probably a good chunk higher because it’s running the same fork at 170mm travel rather than 140mm travel surely? Plus it has a 10mm longer headtube. Those geometry charts don’t tell the full story of how Weeksy had the aether setup vs the g170 either.
The reach is actually quite different too - the g170 is basically a whole bike size smaller in reach. I can well imagine the g170 feels comfortably shorter when stood up than the aether.
On the low front according to geo geeks the whyte is higher than the aether - but not by as much as you might think given the rear travel distance. So the suspension either moves the wheel backwards more on the whyte as it goes through its travel (maybe making it feel more stable?), or it gets lower to the ground than the Aether at full travel.
All these things are going to conspire to make it feel really different I’d have thought.
Excited!
Good, looks lovely and NBD is always a great feeling, I hope you enjoy it. Don't let the critique bring the endorphins down, and post up some Weeksy Enduro pics in the future!
Nice bike Steve 👍, numbers only matter if you are racing,for everything else the only thing that matters is your enjoyment/satisfaction level and if you enjoy riding this more than the Bird, then it’s a better bike.
All these things are going to conspire to make it feel really different I’d have thought.
I've just been over to see a mate, honestly it couldn't be more different. He's got an Aeris145 and said "bloody hell that's totally different to the Bird" within 3s of sitting on it, which actually made me laugh out loud as i completely agree with him.
At the end of the day, whether i'm right or others are right it doesn't bother me in the slightest, i'm currently very happy with my decision and think 100% it's the right choice, how it'll work out, i have absolutely no idea lol.
Jumps are planned for about 5pm, then fish and chips by the river in Goring, soundy idyllic.
Sadly my Shockwiz is having a bit of a hissy fit in terms of connecting, it seems to be down to the battery connections, so it's going back for warranty, but hopefully i'll get some info out of it tonight.
Brilliant customer service from Magura though, they really do astound me with their service. I rang them and asked if it was possible to swap the 31.6mm outer sleeve and replace it with a 30.9mm to fit the Whyte... And of course how much it'll cost me.
"if you don't mind having a pre-used outer, we'll just swap it for nothing" I mean really, that's bloody incredible from them again. They've always gone above and beyond in terms of customer service to me and this is no exception to that.
They’ve always gone above and beyond in terms of customer service to me and this is no exception to that.
They have to keep their customer happy.
I thought the Whyte was sold because it ate shocks or something. Sorry if I miss-read that.
They will eat some shocks, luckily something like a Fox DPX is chunky enough inside to not have issues. Conveniently Weeksy sold one to me 😉
Different whyte isn’t it - G160 previously vs g170 this time. Hopefully the g170 has a different design that doesn’t side load shocks?
That is good from Magura - is this a veyron dropper?
Bikes and bike setup are personal - rode whatever works for you. Just glad you didn’t buy that Santa Cruz.....
Need to bin the crazy short stem for a 35mm one
Blimey, modern bikes make me feel so old.
Surely anything less than 50mm is just a weld 🙂
Yes Joe, Vyron
Anyway, the bike is absolutely brilliant. Wish I'd done it 3 months ago. My jumpy riding dad mate said "you look more comfortable in 3 jumps than you did in 3 months on the Bird".
Within 5 jumps I was consistently clearing the big tabletop.
Just feels really good.
I'm bottoming out the shock but it's a 450 spring and after speaking to Jtech suspension I want a 550 in it. But still, feels fantastic.
If I'm being picky it needs a bearing or a BB, not sure yet which, but that's me being fussy. It'll get sorted soon.
Love it
[img] 
[/img]
[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/51434029328/ ]2021-09-07_06-35-17[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url] - [url= https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dariogf.flickr2BBcode_lite ]Flickr2BBcode LITE[/url]
I’ve found I’m jumping better with a coil spring shock in my Aether than the air one. Maybe it’s just I’m running it with a quicker rebound rather than the spring medium but I’m happy with it.
J-tech sorted me out with a cane creek vault spring on next day delivery a few weeks back - always find them and tf tuned super efficient.
Glad you’re happy - I’m sure you’ll find something to fiddle with / change on it though!
Different whyte isn’t it – G160 previously vs g170 this time. Hopefully the g170 has a different design that doesn’t side load shocks?
They did, it’s (on the 170) free to move in the yoke like everyone else also learned to do
It looks so much less spectacular than it feels. It's about 8'-9' in length from peak to landing... but it's a steep face
Is that the jump that has a little gully run before it, and is to the side of a long straight stony fence run?
That's correct matey. The fence run is where 'normal' people go but there's a selection of tech and a few jumps in that area where the gully/bombhole is. There's also a wall ride and a road gap if you look carefully lol.
I have a mate that rides that way a fair bit, I’ve been with him a couple of times and stopped for a play there. There’s some other fun stuff that I’ve done round there plus some big features, but those are on private land (on permission of the landowner). Plus some other nearby which are pretty well known.
Any info on that would be very much appreciated.
Step 1
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51440151025_173d9d5a00_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51440151025_173d9d5a00_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mnAdKB ]2021-09-09_11-51-17[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
New spring from https://j-techsuspension.co.uk/
This one is 550lbs instead of the 450lbs i have on that i was bottoming out. Should sort that out nicely i think.
Weirdly though, i won't be fitting it today.... mostly because i have another one arriving tomorrow lol. That one is 350lbs... Which is the closest i could find at short notice for my lads weight. As well as taking 3000 spare bits this weekend for his DH race at Caersws i'm also taking the G-170 and will spring it to his weight, just in case he has a mechanical we can't sort, can't repair, he's then got a spare bike... it's a bit big for him, but it's better than a DNF.
[img] 
[/img]
Weirdly though, i won’t be fitting it today…. mostly because i have another one arriving tomorrow lol. That one is 350lbs… Which is the closest i could find at short notice for my lads weight. As well as taking 3000 spare bits this weekend for his DH race at Caersws i’m also taking the G-170 and will spring it to his weight
**** me. You are a bike fettling machine 🙂
Hope it goes well this weekend.
You are a bike fettling machin
I enjoy a little bit of spannering and when the boy tested it at the jumps the other day he felt it was too stiff, which of course it would be as it was sprung way hard and i didn't change the fork pressure either. As i say though, with the 3 race weekends on the bounce now, Caersws, FoD and Milland, i don't wanna see him getting a DNF, it's going to take 5-10 mins to change the shock spring, so just makes sense as it was £20 from Ebay.
As always with my bikes when buying used, i do my best to make sure they're 100%
As i had the cranks off i thought it made sense to do the pivot bearings too
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51439587321_0db968e276_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51439587321_0db968e276_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mnxkbz ]2021-09-09_03-02-59[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51440553305_2bddf22810_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51440553305_2bddf22810_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mnChkt ]2021-09-09_03-02-50[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51438836542_5a6586efa6_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51438836542_5a6586efa6_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mntu17 ]2021-09-09_03-02-34[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
I know i'm pretty much talking to myself here, but anyway.
I bought a tool for setting the B screw on the rear mech. As some of you may know the 12sp stuff is a different setting to 10sp/11sp, basically you move the rear mech cage higher or lower to set it in the right place. Now considering the guy who sold me the bike worked in a bicycle shop, i thought it may be somewhere in the right ball park..... Nah, not even close... So i've set it now and the gears seem lovely and smooth.
[img] 
?v=1624400869[/img]
Is that a little 3D printed part? Looks like a useful little widget.
I'm still on 9-speed which makes things easier with mech set-up.....
yeah but not by me.... some random ebayer. £4. Thought it was worth that.
Last job now...
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51442916434_a63fe63c44_z.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51442916434_a63fe63c44_z.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2mnQoP5 ]2021-09-10_10-38-52[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/152318156@N08/ ]Steve Weeks[/url], on Flickr
Sprung to 350 so it can be used this weekend by the boy as a spare emergency bike for him and his mate.
yeah but not by me…. some random ebayer. £4. Thought it was worth that.
Any chance you could provide a link please Weeksy?
Oddly he’s taken the 11speed tool and (hopefully) changed it to suit 12sp. The Sram 12speed tool looks like:
Although I’ve just seen various aftermarket ones on the likes of AliExpress that also look more like the 11speed one
That's a question i dunno the answer to... LOL... however, it's smooth and seems to work.
MAybe i'll buy one of those above to compare it to.
Oddly he’s taken the 11speed tool and (hopefully) changed it to suit 12sp. The Sram 12speed tool looks like:
Actually the original Eagle 50T B-Tension tool was the 'shark fin' style. They have only just moved to the newer style one (which measures at sag point, rather than static) with the bigger 52T cassette.
Oh that helps then as mine is a 50t so hopefully that's correct for it then.
You’ve got the right one. I have one just like it which I ordered before realising the sram group I had ordered came with the official one (which is identical in shape but red moulded plastic, not black 3D)
renton said:
I dont understand the LLS thing, I dont like the feeling of being so far over the bars on descents.
Since my FS LSS is near enough 100mm longer than my previous FS and almost 50mm longer in reach I'm unsure how folk would be "so far over the bars" on an LSS compared to a non-LLS.
Or have I missed something?
Or have I missed something?
This raises an interesting point. Haven't spent years learning to ride "over the back wheel" some months ago I read and then watch a video about the fact that LLS is supposed to be ridden in the middle or forward of the bike. I did try this on my HT and it felt weird, but pushing weight towards the 'bars on a piece of winding downhill single track seemed to result in some incredible front end grip and somehow force the from to roll out from depressions more.
Or I could have imagined it.
Since my FS LSS is near enough 100mm longer than my previous FS and almost 50mm longer in reach I’m unsure how folk would be “so far over the bars” on an LSS compared to a non-LLS.
Or have I missed something?
Probably - but there are so many variables I dont think anyone knows for sure.
With the same bar height, you will have more weight on your hands. Some people may find that unfomfortable or even painful.
Assuming that "long" comes packaged with "slack", and in turn that indicates a shorter stem:
- your effective reach (BB to bars, horizontal) may not have got much longer, if at all
- your front wheel is further away from the cranks and your default centre of mass: you will need to weight the front more. Your weight is still further back from the front axle, so the downsides of being "over the front" ie crashing are are actually reduced, even if you may feel like you are further forward.
vaguely related anecdote:
I heard once that a "experienced" (dyed in the wool traditionalist) biker had tried to tell my relative beginner friend that you sized a MTB by sitting on it, and in your eyeline the handlebar and front hub should be aligned!
Bollocks for two reasons. One, you size an MTB standing (and then hopefully the seat is in the right place) and two, I tried on my bike, which is arguably half a size to long for me, and when standing in the attack position I can read half of my headtube over the top of the bars.
Since my FS LSS is near enough 100mm longer than my previous FS and almost 50mm longer in reach I’m unsure how folk would be “so far over the bars” on an LSS compared to a non-LLS.
Or have I missed something?
I know the answer, but it would probably come across as mean, so I won’t post it here.
I know the answer, but it would probably come across as mean, so I won’t post it here.
Yorkshireman mate, you can't upset me.
It wasn’t you it would upset 😉
It wasn’t you it would upset
Lol it won't be me Jim, I've done the deed, bought the bike and love it.
However, I'm not convinced this thread is where it belongs as this is as much about this bike purchase as anything else.
I'd be more than a little interested in an LLS and riding thread though that's for sure.
Neither you Steve, more people saying they don’t understand something, yet offering advice on it.
550 spring is now in the bike, but as i've been away i've not had a chance to test it... It's a bit crazy but i've now owned the bike for a full week and i don't think i've actually been round a corner on it. The only ride we did was over to a jump area which was Ridgeway to it, then the jump line is fairly straight.
I've got a few meetings i can't get out of today, but after that i'm planning an hour out on it to try it.
Finally getting to put some time in on the G-170.
Local stuff only at the moment, but it's riding sweetly and i'm most happy with it. I'm not picking anything massively techincal at the moment, mostly because with only an hour i can't get to it, ride it and get back in an hour. But it's 'trails' in a proper trail context. Today i had a couple of silver trophies, which considering i'm at one of my worst levels of fitness and weight in the past 10 years i'm pretty happy with. But more importantly, i'm at a level of happiness with the G170 i just never got to reach on the Aether7, i find myself coming into sections which are tight and nadgery, or very narrow ruts etc and well, i barely give them a moments consideration. When i was on the Bird, they 'troubled' me and i couldn't ride as i wanted as i had to think about the trails more than just riding them.
By the weekend i should be able to get out to something a little more tech and tricky at Forest of Dean, so we'll learn a bit more
Neither you Steve, more people saying they don’t understand something, yet offering advice on it.
Probably means me 🙂
Its ok I wont get offended but first let me try and explain....
LLS to me means shorter stack heights compared to non LLS bikes. So to me when I'm going down something steep on a LLS bike the bars are quite low compared to how I like them on a non LLS bike.
Horses for courses though isnt it. Some people like the bars low, others dont!
You see lots of people adding really high rise bars to LLS bike to try and counter the effect
You see lots of people adding really high rise bars to LLS bike to try and counter the effect
See that was the thing that irritated me about the Bird. People said 2 things
1. You're riding it wrong
2. More spacers, higher bars
Now 1 i accept as very possible
But 2 surely goes against the whole ethos of the frame designers building the bike as LLS.
Weirdly on the G-170 i'm running my lower rise bars, not the 38mm rise but i think 15mm-20mm ride and i've even dropper the spacers by 10mm on the stem. But it ride beatifully and goes where i want it to.
^^Thus proving my point, Low refers to Bottom Bracket height, nothing to do with Stack Height.
^^Thus proving my point, Low refers to Bottom Bracket height, nothing to do with Stack Height.
Agreed, however generally the stack heights tend to be lower too.
Anyway I didnt offer any advice just expressed my own feelings on the LLS and why it didnt suite me:)
Alternatively folk* are realising that bars higher up are better?
* taller (esp long legged) folk
See that was the thing that irritated me about the Bird. People said 2 things
1. You’re riding it wrong
2. More spacers, higher barsNow 1 i accept as very possible
But 2 surely goes against the whole ethos of the frame designers building the bike as LLS.
Wouldn't it have been cheaper to have just tried 2?
For me even with 50mm riser bars and 50mm of spacers my bars are still below saddle level.
“Agreed, however generally the stack heights tend to be lower too.”
Where are you seeing that? On the whole stack heights are significantly higher than a decade ago!
Low in LLS is BB height, not stack. The key to riding long reach bikes with slack head angles is to have higher stack than on shorter steeper bikes.
Wouldn’t it have been cheaper to have just tried 2?
I did... i had higher bars and all the spacers possible.. i still didn't get on with it.
Yeah, head tubes may be smaller but stacks have increased. Bigger travel and bigger wheels will do that.
2. More spacers, higher bars
But 2 surely goes against the whole ethos of the frame designers building the bike as LLS.
Spacers yes. Its not a fault per se with the birds, just something to be aware of, the short head tubes means if you put some spacers in you are shortening that long reach. Roughly 10mm shorter for 20mm spacers, this can undo some of the headline figures.
Riser bars though take it straight up - compared to bars that are otherwise identical before the pedants lay into me.
Also remember that stack is to the headtube, back when stems were stupidly long, how much height were you gaining with the stem length?
Yes, your hands will probably be a bit higher than those on a classic XC race bike, which is kind where everything slowly evolved from. But they are also wider which will lower your torso and head back down...
Its similar (and related to) to those people who still maintain "get behind your saddle" on a LLS bike. Retaining techniques and fits from totally unrelated bikes from other disciplines or the past is a bit like Jason Kenny telling Richie Rude to bring his elbows in for more speed.
But its all a bit of a fluid spectrum, you cant say "a reach of X, headangle of Y and BB of Z is the cutoff for a LLS bike, and anything one side of that line needs technique A and the other side technique B"
I know i’m pretty much talking to myself here, but anyway.
Nope. I'm here too. I find it fascinating. In the same was as I might watch people discussing felat.. filat.. philate... stamp collecting,Morris dancing, music, darts, snooker, art or millions of other stuff that I know sod all about and have little interest in.
Vive la difference...
It's fascinating. 🙂
but it’s riding sweetly and i’m most happy with it.
This, I dig though.
i’m pretty happy with. But more importantly, i’m at a level of happiness with the G170 i just never got to reach on the Aether7
And this. Happy days.
Agreed, however generally the stack heights tend to be lower too.
Really? Any examples to back this up?
What've you done with the Bird?
Really? Any examples to back this up?
A large Bronson has increased about 40mm in stack from its original 2013 iteration to the 2022 model.
edit - I thought I was replying to the contrary statement. Yes, stacks have increased generally over the last few years.
What’ve you done with the Bird?
Traded it with the owner of the G-170. He wanted a lower travel bike, i wanted rid of the bike i didn't like. I even got some money.... heck, i'd have paid him some 😀
No examples sorry and maybe I'm getting confused?
Surely current stack heights are bigger due to the bottom bracket being lower on the LLS bikes.
I've found to get comfy on a LLS bike I've needed quite a high rise bar due to the front end feeling a lot lower than I'm normally use too. Judging by some of the comments I've seen online Im not the only one.
Im happy to be corrected though.