[Closed] New 160mm fork time. Lyrik, 36 or 38

Lyrik Ultimates are very good indeed, a massive improvement on the Pikes they replaced on my Cotic RocketMax. I’d struggle to justify spending more but maybe Fox’s have more adjustability? I’d be very happy with Lyriks on any of my bikes.

I’ve always had Rockshox as they are easy to home service and easy to get parts for. I’d imagine the same applies to Fox though too these days.

Any reason why the Zeb isn’t in there too if the 38 is? Do you need to carry round the extra weight if the 38 or Zeb - I’d have thought for most people the 36/Lyrik would be enough?

Personally I’ve got a Lyrik and a Pike Ultinate abs the Lyrik edges the Pike for me and neither have gone creaky (yet).

For me the Lyrik is more than stiff enough - but I’m only 75kgs - it’s on a 29er Sentinel with 150mm rear travel.

I replaced a 140mm 34 with a 150 Lyrik Ultimate on my G13, and I'd say it transformed the bike, love it.

Lyrik is stiffer than the 36, FWIW

Whatever you go with I'd stick to 150 not 160 on a 13.

I’ve same bike with a 150mm Lyrik.
Works great. Stiffness is fine at 96kg and regular alpine singletrack riding.

The Lyrik Ultimate on my new bike feels mint right out of the shop and I haven't spent any time messing with it yet.

I was never that happy with my 36 but I've never ridden the new version.

F38 and Zeb are much longer axle to crown than the other options mentioned, given the same travel. I’d avoid for that frame.

What rear shock is it being paired with?

I'm a big 36 fan FWIW.

Is an EXT Era over budget? (You might be able to get a good deal from Geometron/Mojo rising)

Mezzer

Lyrik Ultimate 160mm here, superb fork, I’ve never found it lacking at either big bike park days or natural trails, really no need to spend lots more money although all the forks listed are generally great!

Also worth thinking, you might be able to get a Yari, add the charge damper and save more £££? 🙂

The charger damper isn’t the vfm upgrade solution it once was - when I killed the charger rc damper in my Pikes, I priced up a charger 2.1 rc2 damper……… the price has jumped up from £300 to £415!!! Fwiw I have a zeb ultimate on my other bike that I’m very happy with, not on your list but worth a mention.

Thanks for the suggestions!

The shock has an offset bushings to bring the BB down. It was fine with out and a 160 fork, but I've been happily scooting about with it like this for a couple.of years.

I have a cane creek double barrel coil, cc double barrel air and dox dps shocks. The DPS comes out for bike packing or long rides where there are tarmac linking sections. The coil lives on the bike most of the time.

@tomhoward

I've not looked at the ext, formula or manitou. I have a MRP ribbon that I've never been 100% happy with. I had a couple of manitou forks ages ago. One had no rebound damping and spat me off repetedly. The other needed rebuilt half way down an alp and it locked out. This has put me off smaller players.

The mezzer pro is very very good, also travel adjustable with no extra parts.

37mm stanchions so between a 36/lyrik and a 38/Zeb.

Tbh as it's on a Geometron I'd look for a zeb - but if it's a 29 fork you're after it seems they're out of stock literally everywhere.

How heavy are you? The Grip2 damper is weirdly specced so light people can easily be outside of its adjustability range and need a custom tune, which is ridiculous tbf. I'm 10 and a half stone, it's not like I'm a child or a tiny woman, just a skinny dude but I'm too light for it. Which is a shame as it's imo the best damper in any of these forks.

<controversial hat on> IMO, all these forks have ended up in a weird place with massive downhill-capable chassis, and trailbike airsprings. Rockshox especially, I just don't think they perform as well as they should, it's a mismatch. The argument for air in lighter forks is an easier one, I don't object to the debonair in my 150mm Pikes frinstance. But even the best air springs I've used still can't beat coil, and the current rockshox are definitely not the best air springs I've used.

So, what I have, is some older cheaper 36s, with a smashpot and a fettled damper in it, and it- imo- absolutely shits on the Lyrik Ultimate. Obviously the chassis isn't as meaty but the coil and damper performance is in a different league.

But then again, if I could have a 29er Old Lyrik with the Mico DH damper and u-turn coil I'd have that like a shot so maybe I'm just weird.

Having priced up an ext fork, yes £1600 is out of budget!

@northwind

I'm 90kg. My favourite for ever was a set of marazocchi 55 rc3ti. I still have some z1 anniversary coil bombers on a bike, but they are strictly 26" with no chance of a 27.5".

I considered some cane creek coil forks, but they are 2.5 tyre max and I use 2.6 butchers on the front for most of the year. They would probably fit, but not with mudguards.

Ioved my revation coil u-turns with motion control. They were awesome until things got really fast and lumpy. On my hardtail I wasn't generally going that fast.

@ta11pau1

Have you ridden the manitou's? How were/are they for reliability and servicing?

The manitou Mezzers review well but I wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole. A few initial batches had bushing problems and the UK importer didn’t want to know. Support for Manitou forks in the U.K. isn’t meant to be very good - which is a shame as both Mezzers and the Mattoc are meant to be really decent.

Having priced up an ext fork, yes £1600 is out of budget!

Don’t worry, you arn’t missing out on anything.

I wouldn’t be running a 38 or a Zeb on a short travel bike like that, they are very stiff unless you are charging hard, everywhere, all the time & if you are the 38 will only start to creak in the CSU, as Fox are still unable to make a fork which doesn’t.

Haven’t used a Lyrik for years, but I have a Pike Ultimate on my Spur which feels fairly good, not amazing, but gets the job done.

Current favourite is the M.2 Ohlins 36. They do come fairly aggressively tuned as standard, but most UK Tuners put a lighter tune in them & they feel great. Easy to swap between coil & air, not ‘fussy’ in setup & just work really well. Not cheap new mind & probably not worth the extra over a Lyrik.

Personally, I’d buy a second hand Lyrik ultimate. You can fairly easily get a lightly used one for ~£500 & there probably isn’t a better fork for the money.

Have you ridden the manitou’s? How were/are they for reliability and servicing?

Had mine since Dec 2020, only issue I've had is the travel o-ring going brittle and breaking.

Checked my pressures for the first time the other day since setting them up and they've not lost a single psi. They have a main air chamber and an IRT chamber so you can have the main chamber (and negative) nice and low but still have decent progression.

Can't say on the servicing side, I should do a lower service soon tbh but I've had them apart from the travel change when i got them so no big deal.

I'd be choosing between a Lyrik Ultimate (which I have and rate very highly) and a Marz Z1 coil.

My favourite for ever was a set of marazocchi 55 rc3ti. I still have some z1 anniversary coil bombers on a bike, but they are strictly 26″ with no chance of a 27.5″.

Not sure what you're saying here, but you know you know the Z1 coil comes in 27 and 29in, and is basically a Fox 36 (Rhythm IIRC) with a coil spring? Reviews are superb and I'd love to try one. The 55 RC3 ti was my fave fork ever too.

I've always been RockShox over Fox, mostly because I'm more familiar with them for home servicing/faffing etc. At 160mm I'd go Lyrik over a 38/Zeb, but any more travel and the beefier fork.

88kg with a Yari with Charger 2.1 damper @ 160 on my G15 and happy with it. Running with LSC and HSC fully open which suggests I'd benefit from a lighter tune - ShockWiz suggestion was to wind off even more compression which I can't do. I'm about to fit a 170 air shaft to them though while my X2s off the bike and away for a service.

My only reservation would be that the new Lyrik seems quite a bit overdue already, so I'd look for a good deal on the current one.

I’d imagine the same applies to Fox though too these days.

Not really! The new spring (in 38 at least) is now housed inside a tube. You need a shaft clamp for a vice and the "bullet tool" to get it out. RS are much easier.

Lyriks are great and straightforward to set up / service. I would recommend dropping the lowers immediately though, as I've seen three brand new ones recently and all have had very little oil and crazy amounts of grease.

I went from a Pike RCT to a Lyrik Ultimate at New Year, good upgrade.

I'd nothing but praise for the Pike but the Lyrik is just better - Tweed Valley so lot's of rocks & routes.

The best thing is how it recovers with multiple hits, PR'd pretty much everything over the first few weeks.

Not really! The new spring (in 38 at least) is now housed inside a tube. You need a shaft clamp for a vice and the “bullet tool” to get it out.

This guy just pulled it out with vice grips on the foot nut (7:10 ish)

I've got a current 36 on a 150mm bike and a set of Lyrik Ultimates at 170 on another. Plus K has a set of 38s at 170.

38's/Zebs are both super stiff - a few people I know who've got them reckon no real benefit unless you're on a heavy e-bike for most riders (and those who've ridden both prefer the Zeb)

Latest 36 is definitely an improvement on the generation before on smaller stuff.

But the Lyrik is cheaper and easier to service and just as good (and there are some deals about already as the replacement model has been announced - Winstanleys are listing all options for £700.

90kg and occasional uplift days/alps? I'd be wanting a 38mm chassis. that level of stiffness is overkill for a 60kg rider on singletrack, not with the increased weight and impact

90kg and occasional uplift days/alps? I’d be wanting a 38mm chassis. that level of stiffness is overkill for a 60kg rider on singletrack, not with the increased weight and impact

Though you have to wonder how much of this is really just marketing - 2(?) years ago the Lyrik was the RockShox Enduro fork being used to win EWS races at 180mm travel. At 150mm with an amateur rider I'm thinking it's more than stiff enough.

Though you have to wonder how much of this is really just marketing – 2(?) years ago the Lyrik was the RockShox Enduro fork being used to win EWS races at 180mm travel. At 150mm with an amateur rider I’m thinking it’s more than stiff enough.

its a marginal gain for sure, but lets be honest, the lyrik isn't immune from creaky crowns. the difference in force distribution between 36 and 38mm is fairly minimal, but I guess so is the weight.

fwiw I'm 83kg and ride singletrack on my retro, 100mm travel, 28mm stancioned forks, with my 20kg kid sat on the top tube. wobbly isn't a strong enough term 🙂

Just to be clear, I'm not anything other than an amateur.

The only enduro races I've tried I've ended up right at the bottom of the results. No pro rider freebies for me with my 10 Instagram following 🤣

Thanks for the heads up @b33k34. I've been looking at German sites, but a UK warranty would be prefered

Though you have to wonder how much of this is really just marketing – 2(?) years ago the Lyrik was the RockShox Enduro fork being used to win EWS races at 180mm travel. At 150mm with an amateur rider I’m thinking it’s more than stiff enough.

admittedly this was smaller wheels, but nine years ago Jared Graves was switching the 34 which he had ridden all season to a 36 for the Pietmaritzburg downhill World champs. In which he came third.

Though you have to wonder how much of this is really just marketing – 2(?) years ago the Lyrik was the RockShox Enduro fork being used to win EWS races at 180mm travel. At 150mm with an amateur rider I’m thinking it’s more than stiff enough.

It's just the way things are moving up, a fox 34 with 140mm travel used to be a trail fork, now it's a fox 36 with 160mm. An enduro fork used to be a 36 with 160mm, now it's a 38 with 180mm...

This guy just pulled it out with vice grips on the foot nut (7:10 ish)

So the air piston is actually inside that tube he pulls out. Getting that out is why you need to remove the foot nut and use the bullet tool. Also, I don't think he paid for that fork!

around 2.15

I got mine from these guys, good service and they put in the spring-length I needed.

https://www.sussedoutsuspension.co.uk/product/2021-rockshox-lyrik-ultimate-29-boost-42mm-offset/

5lab
Free Member

its a marginal gain for sure, but lets be honest, the lyrik isn’t immune from creaky crowns.

Yep, but that's because of shit construction/design not a limitation of the 35mm chassis. Did anyone ever get creaky crowns with the original Lyrik and Domain? It's something that's so widespread now and we just seem to accept it- my 36s have a replacement steerer, my Pikes can just bloody well creak

Have you ridden the manitou’s? How were/are they for reliability and servicing?

not had an issue with mine (old casting). There were a few early forks that had an issue that was rectified very early on. Servicing can be done at home easily and travel change at home too with spacers. Really good air spring and damping that has a wide range unlike the current grip2 vvc damper. No issue for warranty on the forks in the UK even if bought from Germany or the US.

I still think 38's and/zebs are ridiculous. If you want that much stiffness/travel just fit a dual crown ffs.

160 lyriks have really impressed coming off pikes. I didnt think i'd notice much change in stiffness and damping but I have.

for a 130mm travel bike anything else up front would be overkill as your rear would have long lost traction.

The Grip2 damper is weirdly specced so light people can easily be outside of its adjustability range and need a custom tune, which is ridiculous tbf. I’m 10 and a half stone, it’s not like I’m a child or a tiny woman, just a skinny dude but I’m too light for it. Which is a shame as it’s imo the best damper in any of these forks.

I'm not much heavier than that and find the Grip 2 damper very good (150mm 36 on a Hightower). Recently had it serviced by TF Tuned and they changed most of the compression/rebound settings I had been using, which I wasn't entirely happy about until I actually rode the bike. I now rate it as by far the best fork I've used, although I haven't tried the new lyrik, and I definitely wouldn't want it any stiffer so I wouldn't consider a Zeb or 38

Another shout for the "budget" Marz Z1.

I bought mine with the intention of fitting a GRIP2 damper down the road but I really don't think there is a need.

Really good fork that sits between the 36 and 38 in terms of stiffness (thicker EBike rated uppers apparently).

If you shop around you might be able to find a set for under 700 notes.

Manitou Mezzer?

I still think 38’s and/zebs are ridiculous. If you want that much stiffness/travel just fit a dual crown ffs.

Really?

I've got a Zeb on a 170mm bike, it's perfect for that job.

Have you ridden one?

The Lyric, 36 and 38 are all great forks. I'd just look for the best deal on either and go with that.

I have ridden Lyriks, Manitou and Fox 38. The Fox 38s came fitted to my bike and I've found them a bit too stiff/harsh intially, difficult to set up and had to be serviced to get the grease in the equalisation port issue fixed. They are very good now, but if I were buying a new 160mm fork I'd go for the Lyrik Ultimates. Lighter, not as stiff, easier to service, easier to set up, better value. I'm a light rider though at 70kg, apparently the 38s aren't great for lighter riders.

Hi,

Thanks for all the suggestions. I've gone for a 36.

<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> The axel to crown heights are all much of a muchness.</span>
<p dir="ltr">Axel to crown</p>
<p dir="ltr">Pike  571mm at 160mm
Lyric 571mm in 160mm
38 573mm at 160mm
36 571mm  at 160mm
Manitou 574mm at 160mm</p>
<p dir="ltr">There are 38's for £1050 (29", 160mm 44mm offset) at a few places.</p>
<p dir="ltr">There are Lyriks for £700 at winstanleys.</p>
<p dir="ltr">I've gone for a 36 as its different to what I have now. I'm not going to try them all back to back and I think any of them will be fine for me.</p>
<p dir="ltr">I didn't go for the 38 or Zeb as I would be busy resenting the extra weight up every long steep climb for years.</p>
<p dir="ltr">I do love the faffing with the cane creek shocks. Ohh I didn't make that jump, must be the high speed compression... So that</p>
<p dir="ltr"></p>
<p dir="ltr"></p>
<p dir="ltr"></p>

Keep an eye on Amazon for low charger 2.1 damper pricing. Their price fluctuates massively and the yari/lyrik rc2 damper is currently out of stock but listed at £188. I ordered it for this price in March. No idea if it will turn up anytime soon but worth a shot at this price.

I see you went for the Fox 36, hope you enjoy it. Thanks for starting the thread

I watched your thread with interest as I was looking for something similar, but picked up a red Lyrik Ultimate from Tredz; because I had had a couple of beers, I liked the colour, I am comfortable servicing it 😁 and it was a bargain with an extra £40 off.

The only downside was it turned up the next day on standard postage leaving me little time to make up an excuse as to why ....

@binman it’s always a warranty return in this house 😂😂