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Using the (very) quiet country lanes this morning on my way to work. A woman pulls out of a farm lane without looking in the same direction as me without looking. See's me in her rear view and stops dead. Pow. I landed on the rear window. Little bit winded little bit dazzed.
I didn't think to get a photo but we exchanged numbers, she was very apologetic.
I feel a bit odd, sore rib. Bike needs checked but scuffed levers are evident.
How strong are Arkose forks? Strava looks like I hit the back of the car around 12/13mph. Initially 19mph but looks like I scrubbed off 6mph.
Shit.
Ouch. Let's hope she doesn't think about it for a bit and then just say you rode into the back of her.
I would be erring on the side of replacing forks if there is any suspicion they have taken a clout like that.
Who on earth (and yes this is obviously a rhetorical question) sees something unexpected in their rear view mirror and thinks, "ooh, reckon I'll do an emergency stop"?
🤔
How strong are Arkose forks?
I rolled myself and my Arkose over a over a bonnet - forks were totalled, obviously as there was a massive crack and they were no longer straight...
If you take yours to a shop they will tell you to replace them as, as far as I recall, there’s no way to reliably test if carbon is damaged.
JamesO (of this parish) will hopefully be able to sort you out with a crash replacement set at cost price should you need them.
Who on earth
I hate to say this.. but, woman. Like the one who started crossing the cycle lane in front of an oncoming me. And instead of keeping going so I could miss/steer round the back of her Mini, stopped right in front of me to say "sorry" as I smacked into her door 😆
If those forks are carbon, don't use em!
Oof, hope you get better soon. Never nice being involved in a crash.
I'd be replacing the forks anyway, making her pay. I'd be worried about them having a problem and each ride I'd be thinking they were going to cave in. I'd also want new levers, bike should be back to how it was before the accident. The odd scratch I'd not be overly fussed about as these things happen, but anything major should be repaired or replaced.
I presume it will be clear cut that she caused the crash? If I wasn't injured I wouldn't bother with going through her insurance if she would pay up for the forks.
Ouch. Let’s hope she doesn’t think about it for a bit and then just say you rode into the back of her.
Totally this - people's attitudes to this sort of thing are now so warped that I would say there's a 50/50 chance of her lying through her teeth after a bit of time to mull it over.
You should report to the police. Partly because she’ll almost certainly claim you rode into the back of her car, and partly so that statistics are accurate.
She has legal obligation to report to police if you’ve been injured.
Did she stop while pulling out of the junction not giving you time to stop?
If she had exited and was moving along the road before she stopped then it could be tricky claiming it's her fault.
I've had this type of accident before... Pulls out, then sees you in the rear view mirror and stops. It was a man in my case. Luckily there were witnesses, who couldn't believe what had happened and gave they guy a hard time . Unluckily the frame was bent, but that wasn't immediately obvious, and I'd managed to slow down quite a bit too...
Hope you and the bike are fine!
you rode in to the back of someone that you saw well in advance? it's your fault, regardless of what she did.
Who on earth (and yes this is obviously a rhetorical question) sees something unexpected in their rear view mirror and thinks, “ooh, reckon I’ll do an emergency stop”?
who sees a car, well in advance, knows they aren't looking, but cracks on regardless at full pelt? 😆
I think the op needs to review his hazard awareness!
Seosamh - Seems a bit harsh. Sounds like the op was cycling along the road and a car suddenly came out of a side road leaving not enough time to avoid it - especially given the driver then decided to stand on the brakes!
I suspect the op was trying to beat their stava time, and thought oh, there's a car I can draft, I think I'll ignore their irratic driving, must beat this time. Opps wallop. Never left enough stopping distance, nor anticipated further crazy driving! 😆
The op never "got knocked off", they "rode into the back of a car". 😆
Seosamhh77-troll.
She's been on the phone, quite upset and very apologetic. She said this will make her more vigilant in future. Said it was entirely her fault.
I feel a lot better now, I was definitely in shock earlier. No cuts out scrapes, she said I'll probably feel stiff tomorrow. She a nurse so probably one of the better people to run in to!
I didn't see her well in advance, pulled out from drive/lane, stopped. Just like that. If I was 2 seconds earlier she would of hit me pulling out.
She wants me to have the bike checked and let her know what needs replacing. A quick look over shows nothing except scuffs to the levers. But the forks are concerning.
Stay safe folk, it can happen at any time.
to run in to
The prosecution rests their case! 😆
Yeah I would have to say if you run into the back of someone it's your fault whether you're in a car or a bike. Speaking as someone who's ridden at 25mph into the back of a car that stopped in the road and speaking to the police after getting out of hospital, and then having the car's insurers come after me for caving in the back of their car. Were you trying to punish them for pulling out by riding very close behind in the audi driver style?
Prosecution presents further evidence!
plus lets look at the evidence. 19mph is 30kph.
So lets say it takes a car 3 secs to pull out and straighten up from the time they are meant to look(a conservative estimate and the OP saw that they didn't look, by their own admission.)
30000m/60/60*3 = 25.5m reaction space, even at 2secs, that's still 17m.
that's plenty of stopping distance! My original conclusion stands, hazard perception is needing improved (Or better brakes are required!) 😆
One of the unintended consequences of the forum update is that the standard of trolling has plummeted
Or bias in favour of silly cyclists has gone up.
I'm not trolling. Genuinely believe it's the OPs fault, and if they takes money off the poor woman, they are taking liberties.
I presume it will be clear cut that she caused the crash?
It will be an argument between her insurer and your insurer.
I was knocked off on a cycle path by someone who just drove over the path. As a British Cycling member, it was all handled through their solicitor, who obviously make a lot of money off the process, but it's not something I would have liked to handle on my own. My claim reflected bike damage and a broken hand.
I had lots of information to back up my claim (e.g. photographic evidence it was a cycle path, etc) so the other party didn't really have a leg to stand on, and eventually admitted full liability.
The only thing I regret in hindsight was not formally reporting it to the police immediately. I spoke to them a few days later, and they were clearly not interested, so I didn't pursue it.
Seosamhh77-troll.
Someone posting something with "lol"z, clearly making a joke? Some of you need to look up what a troll is... it was a joke, yeah??
Pulling out in front of someone travelling at pace might or might not leave them enough distance to stop/avoid, but slamming on when the rider is already braking as hard as possible will only compound the problem.
Only the OP and the driver know who is blame, and it sounds like they are hopefully sorting it out among themselves.
You might like to rethink that post Dez
Or I'm just laughing cause I know what the reaction will be! 😆
So lets say it takes a car 3 secs to pull out and straighten up
No way. That can be done in a second easily. Three seconds is ages.
Never thought it would happen to me- knocked off this morning.
Not a criticism and not jumping on the you're to blame but .... the part before the hyphen....??
This is the part I think leads to accidents... it could and probably is that your not to blame but that doesn't mean you couldn't have perhaps anticipated and avoided it...
Yeah I would have to say if you run into the back of someone it’s your fault whether you’re in a car or a bike. Speaking as someone who’s ridden at 25mph into the back of a car that stopped in the road and speaking to the police after getting out of hospital, and then having the car’s insurers come after me for caving in the back of their car. Were you trying to punish them for pulling out by riding very close behind in the audi driver style?
It's not black and white... years ago a friends brother tried that defense ...
The thing was he had his GF in the car and her ex BF was following them (probably with menaces if you believed him) .. either way as he said off-record he was pissed off with the whole thing and deliberately slammed on his brakes... He didn't say that officially but the witnesses did describe what happened... and his defines was "it's their fault as they were behind"....
He did get "done"and as I remember a ban (it's years ago) ... but I remember my mate used to need loads of lifts after...
So lets say it takes a car 3 secs to pull out and straighten up from the time they are meant to look(a conservative estimate and the OP saw that they didn’t look, by their own admission.)
30000m/60/60*3 = 25.5m reaction space, even at 2secs, that’s still 17m.
that’s plenty of stopping distance! My original conclusion stands, hazard perception is needing improved (Or better brakes are required!)
I'm not arguing with the figures but what this illustrates is bikes, especially with skinny road tyres don't stop very quickly ... combined with the fact that what the unprotected body is hitting is likely much bigger, heavier and harder it's a strong case IMHO for paying EXTRA case.
Their are enough dicks driving to make this a good investment of time and effort.
My commiserations. 5 weeks since mine and I’m not in a particular rush to get out on my bike, even now the ribs have essentially healed. 🙁
who sees a car, well in advance, knows they aren’t looking, but cracks on regardless at full pelt? I think the op needs to review his hazard awareness!
The 🤔 in my reply was partly an "I wonder if we're hearing the full story here" sort of a hmm.
Anyway, this sort of incident is massively context-dependent. It's quite feasible that the OP was being somewhat careless; equally it's possible they were being quite cautious. Impossible to tell.
Sounds like the driver (who, unlike all of us replying, was there and knows what happened) is making life easy, though. Which is good. But be aware that there are plenty of tales of drivers and insurers who change their tune once they find out that some bicycles don't cost £80 from Asda.
Remember kids, if someone has a different opinion to your own, THEY MUST BE A TROLL!
Unfortunately, you have to be able to stop in the distance you can see, so if you couldn't/didn't stop in time, the best you'd get is 50/50 arguing hesitation or that she has accepted blame, but the likely result would be that the fault lies with the moving party that ran into the stationary party.
She a nurse so probably one of the better people to run in to!
Was she fit?
Unfortunately, you have to be able to stop in the distance you can see, so if you couldn’t/didn’t stop in time, the best you’d get is 50/50
Next time you're in the car and emerging from a side road into or across a main road, do so into the path of an oncoming vehicle and see if the best the other driver gets is 50/50 on the basis that they should have been able to stop. They have priority and you need to give way, otherwise everyone would have to slow to a crawl past all side roads.
Equally, try pulling across from the middle lane of a motorway into the inside lane right in front of someone and then slamming on the brakes. If there's any evidence, you won't get a penny (especially as it's a well known scam).
Both of the above are analogous in significant part to the incident the OP describes and in both cases the person pulling into the path of another vehicle would be wholly at fault in terms of civil liability and potentially prosecutable for a criminal offence.
In both of the cases you describe the person pulling into the path is the active party. In the OPs case, they're not, they're stationary and the OP anticipated that they would move, they didn't and he hit them.
No way. That can be done in a second easily. Three seconds is ages
can be...takes this dude from 3.27(starting from stopped) to 3.33 till straight.
Trolling be high in this thread which is disappointing.
To those that have offered advice rather than concoct rubbish thank you.
I should of known better than come on here and vent/seek advice.
So in an analogous situation, say you're descending a nice long hill at 30mph when a car passes and pulls back in 10m ahead of you. Do you always slow down so you could stop in 10m in case the car suddenly does an emergency stop?
You should make space to stop.
But if they car overtook you then stopped in your "stopping distance" you're screwed. A bit like what happened to me this morning.
The stopping distance there isn't 10m. It's 10m + the cars stopping distance - reaction time, don't need to adjust too much there.
In the OPs case, they’re not, they’re stationary and the OP anticipated that they would move
That seems to involve a bunch of assumptions. According to the OP someone pulled into his path and then hit the brakes, which makes them an active party; it's not as if they were just parked up.
The point is that we don't know much at all about the timings or anything else here, so any discussion of who is at fault is all speculation. I find it weird that anyone thinks the speculation is trolling. It's not answering the OP's question, granted (welcome to conversation on the web) but I can't see anything here that looks like trolling.
Happy to kick things off if need be, though 😁
Lovely of everyone to assume it was the fault of the OP! Pulling out without looking is always the fault of the puller-outer surely? Also given she would have been going slowly to start off with she would have come to a halt almost instantaneously.
OP, could you have done anything differently to avoid the crash? This is all I would be asking myself if I was you.
She pulls out without looking. Did you slam on, start scrubbing off some speed off here or continue at your pace assuming that she would be out of your way before you got past the side road?
Slamming her brakes on after seeing you was a silly thing to do obviously.
Do you always slow down so you could stop in 10m in case the car suddenly does an emergency stop?
Well, I do*. But there's an unavoidable period where (as per the OP's case, it would seem) if they do an emergency stop shortly after pulling in front of you there's nothing you can do. Which is how car insurance scammers stage collisions.
* when I was a foolhardy teenager this would have been untrue, as evidenced by the one time I went into the back of a car (no damage to anyone or anything, put down to experience and never repeated)
The pulling out bit is irrelevant tbh, the OP, by their own admission can see that they've looked in their rear view mirror and then hit the brakes, so the car is fully straight at that point. driver panics, silly yes, but the Op then rides straight into the back of a car. Which is more silly.
And by the Ops own admission again they said the driver didn't look before pulling out, so they've seen that car long before the emergency stop debacle! 😆
imnotverygood
You might like to rethink that post Dez
You're right, sorry, honestly didn't see how much shit he'd actually posted. And stlll is.
Also given she would have been going slowly to start off with she would have come to a halt almost instantaneously.
But then if she'd been going that slowly she'd necessarily have taken a significant (ie observable) time to pull out from the side road and position herself fully in front of the OP…
By the way, when does playing advocate become trolling? I always forget 😉
I think we need a couple of ms paint scribbles from the OP depicting what happened! 😆 Only way to clear this up!
Wasn't a dig at you OP, more a question for the elite cycling gods among us. I'd have been straight in nurse gladys' back end like you were.
She told me she looked her mirror. I didn't see her do it. Only red lights. But you've decided it's my fault so there we go.
OP, could you have done anything differently to avoid the crash? This is all I would be asking myself if I was you.
She pulls out without looking. Did you slam on, start scrubbing off some speed off here or continue at your pace assuming that she would be out of your way before you got past the side road?
Slamming her brakes on after seeing you was a silly thing to do obviously.
I started scrubbing as she pulled out, braked as much as possible. Single lane road too so not much scope for avoidance.
For what it's worth (sorry OP) let's lob some numbers in. I won't show my working too much because it's all very rough, there's no point being precise when we know so little, this is just to add some context to the speculation.
19mph on a bike is around 8.5m/s. If you take the "three seconds" someone punted earlier, you'll cover a bit over 25m (about 12 bike lengths or five car lengths) at that speed (ie if you don't react to anything).
If you observe something at the start of those three seconds and your reaction time is around a second and you react by performing a pretty hard stop, you'll come to a halt roughly (coincidentally) three seconds after the observation after covering about 17m (eight bike lengths, three car lengths).
But if someone pulled out in front of them and accelerated, most people wouldn't perform a full emergency stop: they'd decelerate sufficiently to avoid a collision and then adjust the gap to something safe as the driver ahead pulled away. Few if any people would consider the driver ahead suddenly braking to a stop as being a likely turn of events, so they wouldn't go all-in on the anchors straight away; especially on a two-wheeler.
Obviously it's perfectly reasonable in many scenarios that someone in the OP's position would be able to avoid an incident, but you only have to adjust the timings a bit before things look different when it comes to the equally reasonable scenario of slowing adequately on the assumption that the driver would not immediately do an emergency stop.
Given that the OP's driver has, apparently, admitted fault, we can probably accept that this falls within the range of parameters whereby the OP couldn't reasonably have been expected to avoid it, and move on.
I still find it weird that someone would do an emergency stop in response to noticing someone heading towards their boot, though. But that's humans, I guess 😉
I'm curious to know why the nurse pulled out and then stopped when she saw the OP behind her. Surely thats the polar opposite of what she should have done i.e. floored it?
Ah, apologies - I misunderstood your initial post. I read it as "a driver travelling in the same direction as you approaches a junction and starts to pull out, sees you in her rear view mirror and brakes before pulling out and that you want into the back of her" the initial post was (understandably) a little confusing.
Few if any people would consider the driver ahead suddenly braking to a stop as being a likely turn of events, so they wouldn’t go all-in on the anchors straight away; especially on a two-wheeler.
Obviously it’s perfectly reasonable in many scenarios that someone in the OP’s position would be able to avoid an incident, but you only have to adjust the timings a bit before things look different when it comes to the equally reasonable scenario of slowing adequately on the assumption that the driver would not immediately do an emergency stop.
Given that the OP’s driver has, apparently, admitted fault, we can probably accept that this falls within the range of parameters whereby the OP couldn’t reasonably have been expected to avoid it, and move on.
Thanks. I think that sums it up.
OP, just wanted to say I'm glad you suffered no lasting injuries first and foremost.
I wasn't there and I'm not getting into the politics. This is a biking forum, I'm a biker too and I hope this gets resolved for you in an amicable and fast manner.
Seriously guys, give the op a break perhaps?.....
brakes would have been handy, aye! 😆