[Closed] Nazi stems

'Slamming' stems because it's fashionable, then realising it's uncomfortable.

Godwin's Law?

Just happy to see you?

A consequence of people buying a racer
when they need a tourer.

Surely a"grin from ear to ear" inducing fatbike would be better for that beach?

Road bikes are cool due to recent British suceess in pro cycling. It's the bike to be seen on. Lots of people riding one would be a lot better off on a hybrid. But they buy a road bike to commute to work on and then try and turn it into a hybrid. I've had this discussion with more than one person but they can't see why a hybrid would be better for carrying their work kit, bumping up and down kerbs, having a better riding position for heavy traffic and being more comfortable in general.
It's fashion, basically.

PP, I'm not talking about Altura-Man on his commute, but I certainly agree with your point there. This is the full Rapha sporting rouleur du Dimanche out on the lanes.

Combine your point re cycling success and Rusty's re tourers and you're there! Most people do a few hours of a weekend, and a nice comfy tourer would be far better than a "race" bike with a SS-Saluting-Stem.

Nazi stem or stem Nazi?

Who cares?

If they're designing a bike a certain shape that gives a range of stem height options to suit different tastes and rider shapes, seems to me they're doing it right. If every stem was slammed and spacerless that'd almost certainly mean the steerer was too high and lots of people would rather have it lower.

I did a 'B'. bout a salsa vaya: off the Internet of course. Head tube was too long, even negative 17 degree stem too high. So I had 25mm cut off the head tube.

I said I'd never by without demoing. But I did.

I think lots of b rather than a. Or bikes with not enough steerer tube- carbon steelers don't help.

You're a fashion victim. Give it five years and you'll be complaining about brewers droop stems.

Head tubes are getting longer on road bikes, so it ain't that. That Bianchi doesn't exactly look like it would have a low front end, even with a proper stem angle.

nazi stem 😆

Nazi stem or stem Nazi?

Who cares?

I'll put you down as a C, shall I?

😉

Dirtyrider, it seems the right term, don't you think? 😀

This seems like a good place to insert this comment.

I'm an over competitive git, and nothing gives me more pleasure than dropping carbon'd up roadies when out on my decade old steel audax/tourer.

Mind you, I also have a carbon road bike with the stem flipped the 'wrong' way.

A consequence of people buying a racer
when they need a tourer.

THE most sensible thing i have read on here for months.

Not too sure why anyone would even care. The stem on my road bike gets flipped over depending on the current state of my spine.

Surely the bike does fit them, but with a nazi stem... it's like saying you don't like tea if you take sugar in it. Yes you do, you like tea [i]with[/i] sugar.

A,B and C are all wrong. It's because most people spines are not as flexible as a pro cyclist's. Easily solved by one of 2 options:

1 suffer like a proper roadie (surely suffering is half the point)
2 buy a cyclocross bike and don't worry about being 1mph slower, you won't notice the speed because you will be having fun rather than suffering.

I opted for the later.

This is the full Rapha sporting rouleur du Dimanche out on the lanes.

Most people do a few hours of a weekend, and a nice comfy tourer would be far better than a "race" bike with a SS-Saluting-Stem.

Rapha are already pushing the PBP and Brevet angle, Audax's are not really the domain of the blinged out Pinarello crowd though….

i think the nazi stem look is wrong, but a nice road bike with a nazi stem is a much better look than some of the horrible looking sportive bikes (such as a giant defy) with a stem fitted normally

The magic word has been spoken

'Sportive' innit!

The roadie marketing equivalent of 'Enduro'

Like they've been selling ****ing big awful heavy deep section wheels at a k a pair to riders who can't average much more than 13mph

'Sportive' innit!

40 quid

Audax

6 quid

I'm all confused, I just bought my first non MTB its a hybrid

[img] [/img]

I commute 12 miles each way and I'm dropping blinged up rapha wearing, possibly Nazi stemmed, roadies like the Luftwaffe dropped bombs on the east end 😉

I had to flip the stem down tho as the headtube is massive

There's a guy comuting on a fat bike (with frame bags) that I see quite often and I can't catch him

The fixie teeny bar riding couriers weave thru buses to beat me

But theres 1 guy on a felt or maybe cube with a really upright stem that I can't beat, he's on a freaking ebike and beats me up down notting hill grrrrr

Whats worse than nazi stems is when they are nazi stems sported by triathletes.

[img] [/img]

#AERO!!!!!!!!

This is the full Rapha sporting rouleur du Dimanche out on the lanes.

Nah, this thread ain't about stems, it's about Rapha bashing of which you are rather keen.

Pointless.

And boring.

More roadie threads.... 🙄

i think the nazi stem look is wrong, but a nice road bike with a nazi stem is a much better look than some of the horrible looking sportive bikes (such as a giant defy) with a stem fitted normally

Love to know how you come to this conclusion, or is this a thinly veiled I hate disc braked road bike thread diversion.

Who cares as long as they are riding their bikes and they are comfortable.

STW sucking the life out of riding and encouraging others to ride.

Nah, this thread ain't about stems, it's about Rapha bashing of which you are rather keen.

nah its stems,

99% of my kit is rapha, stems though 😡

although this seasons sale certainly went on a long time, 5 weeks? riding the crest of a wave i guess

nah it's stems

Yep. I could equally have mentioned Assos or any other brand.

sale certainly went on a long time, 5 weeks? riding the crest of a wave i guess

From the top of the crest, the only way is, erm.......

😉

That's not a stem.
[i]This[/i]...now [i]this[/i] is a stem...

[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3880/14436342447_ecb005c84b_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3880/14436342447_ecb005c84b_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
[url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/takisawa2/14436342447/ ]IMAG3386[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/people/takisawa2/ ]pten2106[/url], on Flickr

What bollox ,you put the stem where you need it, my quill stem is raised to the position I need it .All you Johnny come lately`s should go back to golf !!

PP, I'm not talking about Altura-Man on his commute, but I certainly agree with your point there. This is the full Rapha sporting rouleur du Dimanche out on the lanes.

Same thing. Fashion. 🙂
Also, that's what they're doing during the week, commuting on them. I service a few high end road bikes that commute every day. They're ****ed, absolutely knackered. I've told one guy he's using the wrong bike. He knows. But he doesn't care. He spends hundreds servicing it. Certainly more in the last year on servicing than a basic-ish hybrid would cost.....
Also, if they want to be comfy, why not?
I had the stem on my Madone in the low position. It was fine. I now have the stem on my CdF in the high position, as it suits what I'm usimg it for better. 🙂

From the top of the crest, the only way is, erm.......

comfy feet?

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The wheels on that bike you posted, CFH....They're stupid wheels. Wouldn't last ten minutes with me. 😉

Peers over at bike to check it's not racist. Nope, good honest non-nazi stem there

I"ve got 'wrong' stems on my road bikes, still got a 10cm 'drop' to the bars.

(I'm a lanky streak of piss)

Benji,

I come to that conclusion as i like the look of a traditional road bike with horizontal top tube and flipped down stem. I do not like the look of many of the new sportive bikes, but that is just my personal preference.

But although i don't like the look of sportive bikes, i think sportive bikes are great as they have made cycling more accessible to a greater range of people by making road bikes with less aggresive riding posistion and a lower range of gears, they have made road bikes accessible to people that would be normally put off buying a race bike by the aggresive posistion and the high gear ratios. I just really don't like the look of them.

I also think that bisc brakes on road bikes are long over due. And once they are approved for road racing i will probably be getting some.

CaptainFlashheart - Member
... So is it;
A - Bike companies are making the wrong shape bikes and customers are adapting them...

Very much the case. Blame racing fashion. The customers want Ferraris but their fat guts need a cruiser.

Back when bikes were transport, frames were much bigger, and the saddle was supported by just an inch or 2 of seatpost. The headtube was were therefore much longer, and so the handlebars (even dropbars) were carried higher. The quill stem gave the rider the ability to raise the bars, and this is something I miss on modern bikes on a long day's ride - popping the bars up an inch or two after several hours riding makes the remaining hours much more comfortable.

I like a Nazi stem on my commuter,it makes it easier to see what car/road condition is going to try to kill me next.

These people need a nice Rivendell.

[url= https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8178/7980699538_77f6a42991.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8178/7980699538_77f6a42991.jp g"/> [/img][/url]

Who is most 'right' in all of this? The person who buys the race bike for pootling or the person who spends time judging them and deciding what they should do instead?

Bikes are supposed to be fun. We've come a long way from bikes simply being an efficient solution for travel. No one needs a bike worth more than a couple of hundred quid, we buy them because we want them.

^^^ I agree with super.

I also suspect that lots of people don't bother taking a set square & protractor bike shopping with them and would rather spend 5 minutes flipping their stem than buying a new frame/bike to appease some guys on the internet with a superiority complex.

It's just people with bikes who don't know as much about them as you do. I could be wrong, but your superior and vitally important bicycle knowledge means you win.

? Heil Hitler ?

Its either MTB fashion or bike industry cost cutting imposing the supposed advantages of threadless headsets on the masses.

We've lost the wide range and fine height adjustment you used to get with a quill stem

a) The riders of the conventional road bike type have changed a lot in 5-7 years.
and
d) Its like compact frames, the lighter way to get that fit that some riders want is to just flip the stem, the front end equivalent of a compact frame + long post. No real reason to raise the head tube just to have a flat stem instead. It's only convention and fashion that says it shouldn't be pointing up like that. Newer riders will do what seems right for them and aren't hung up on stem-slamming guff.

It's fashion that puts so many people on carbon race bikes. They're lovely bikes to ride in some ways, no reason why not. A lot of car choices aren't that practical either but they're fun. But I'd hire epicyclo if I had a bike company : )

Dont see the problem with it, the logos are printed both ways up on teh stem so they're obviously designed to go both ways non?

Have we done the untouched drops yet? You can't do a nazi stem and ignore the genocide of the untouched drops.

Have we done the untouched drops yet? You can't do a nazi stem and ignore the genocide of the untouched drops.

And they have to be shallow drops because, (surprise surprise), everyone has their stem set too low.

With any luck, today's fat bellied ex golfist will ride whatever bike he buys for long enough that he will become a mere shadow of his/her former self.

I totally agree with PeterPoddy re having the right tool for the job. If someone buys the 'wrong' bike first time round however, they may end up buying a more suitable one when they work out there is something more appropriate out there. Welcome to the world of n+1.

As for aesthetics though....well that's another ball game. It is terribly subjective though and that is why we end up arguing about it all the time.

jameso
...But I'd hire epicyclo if I had a bike company : )

You'd go broke. Deeply unfashionable, I am. 🙂

I make a point of sneering disapprovingly at any road rider whose bike doesn't conform to my mental image of a road bike.

Problem is the stem on my road bike points upwards and I have a pump attached to my downtube so I have to sneer disapprovingly at myself constantly while riding it.
This actually works quite well because my face then looks like those of all the other serious roadies out there, who are taking it all very seriously and doing their best to not enjoy cycling.

Perhaps proper roadies should start showing how serious they are about the whole thing by mounting their stem under the head tube for a proper slammed set-up??

In the old days you'd do this:

[img] [/img]

to get the bars at the right height for you, now you can't because of threadless headsets, so you flip the stem. The other alternative is to have a massive headtube or have a LOT of spacers and a long steerer, both of which I imagine you'd sneer at as well.

I'm in agreement with PeterPoddy in that a lot of people are buying [s]the wrong[/s] not the most appropriate bike for their intended use. It's not that manufacturers aren't making appropriate bikes, it's that people would rather buy the flash, fast and sleek looking racer than the tourer or hybrid, but I'd much rather see people adapting the wrong bike to be comfortable and using it than them not using it at all. Differing shapes, sizes and degrees of flexibility in people means that these kind of adjustments are necessary.

In summary, get over yourself and stop being so picky.

Ha ha ha haaaa Stupid wrong stem people. Yeah, what I really HATE though is people that buy cyclocross/gravel bikes and ride them on the road and then post pictures of them lying in a pile of leaves on the internet every 5 seconds. Don't they know
THEY
ARE
CYCLOCROSS
STROKE
GRAVEL
BIKES

(Alternatively I might not GAS)

Could be worse, you seen any of those "gravel grinders", utterly utterly pointless in the UK. Even worse when it's a big brand bandwagon jumper. eg:

[img] [/img]

Surely Froome needs to be consulted on this for the correct answer?
After all, he spends the majority of his time looking at them.

I'm looking for zero rise stem for my new bike but they're either massively expensive ( zipp or Easton ec90 sl ) or awkward looking lumpy mtb stems like hope. I won't go the full nazi, it just looks strange on a nice frame.

*chuckles*

If it is your bike do what suits you. FWIW,pro peleton fashion seems to be for stem to be level with ground. Have worked in a LBS previously and newbies almost always found road bars too low after riding MTB machinery so you would flip/raise the stem to suit. When you have had to strip off the bar tape on one side of an old-school stem (no face plates back in the day),to switch stems,often a longer quill to raise handlebars,you appreciate aheadstems even more now!. 🙂

[i]"gravel grinders", utterly utterly pointless in the UK[/i]

For most of the 'B' roads round here they'd probably be ideal 🙁

'Proper' road geometry (not cx) but with clearance for decent tyres and/or 'guards.

30 years ago, a bike company would weld up a load of bikes suitable to flog to joe public, then weld up a bunch of custom frames for the requirements of the pro team. Now they* get frames made job-lot in the far east everyone gets what the pro team needs.

This is slowly changing with the sportive/endurance bike market. Especially now there are other things to differentiate as a selling point such as disc brakes.

* 99% of them

It think far too few people go for road bikes. If it's well set up (yeah that might involve *gasp* flipping the stem upwards) the only real disadvantage compared with a tourer (which is what a lot of people seem to mean when they say "gravel CX bike") is the lack of mudguard clearance - which doesn't really matter if you're a fair weather cyclist.

I know too many people who've been limited in their riding by heavy, flat barred hybrids. These have their place but I'd suggest anything over 5 miles on the road would benefit from drop bars - even if the stem is high - just to give more positions. The alternative is those weird european trekking multi position wrap around bars that belong on an exercise bike.

So yeah, C.

I come to that conclusion as i like the look of a traditional road bike with horizontal top tube and flipped down stem. I do not like the look of many of the new sportive bikes, but that is just my personal preference.

"Sportive bikes" are normal road bikes with about 1cm added to the head tube and 1 degree subtracted from the head angle. The difference is mostly marketing.

I speak as the owner of one traditional steel bike with quill stem, and one carbon bike with racing geometry.

philjunior - Member

I know too many people who've been limited in their riding by heavy, flat barred hybrids. These have their place but I'd suggest anything over 5 miles on the road would benefit from drop bars - even if the stem is high - just to give more positions.

At the risk of enraging GW again, I switched from drops to flat bars because I'd sooner have one comfortable position than multiple, less comfortable ones- I got on fine with the drop bars over short distances but after 20, 25 miles or so I always ended up shuffling constantly from one position to the other trying (and mostly failing) to stave off discomfort.

"gravel grinders", utterly utterly pointless in the UK

how so? i can ride 100 mile gravel loops round here. (hampshire) in fact i have a 150 loop planned for summer over 100 miles off road.

thomthumb - Member
""gravel grinders", utterly utterly pointless in the UK"
how so? i can ride 100 mile gravel loops round here.

Up here in the Highlands you can do the same, and often the "gravel" road is smoother than the chopped up single lane road you had to ride on to get there.

29ers make great gravel roaders. 🙂

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NB Nazi stem concealed by bars. 🙂

Nazi stem concealed by bars

Collaborators! Fifth columnists!

You might think gravel specific bikes are cool but certain posters on here may have moaned a bit about their bike-industry-trendy-pointlessness. But then bought one.

And then posted a picture and review of it, although to be fair you can't see the stem angle on it.

because I'd sooner have one comfortable position than multiple, less comfortable ones

WOOOOHOOOOOO!
I luv you Northwind!
I was thinking I was THE ONLY person in the world that thought this 😆

Colonel, I still think it's a silly niche/name that was largely marketing driven. Luckily for me, the bike I bought exactly fits what I wanted, regardless of the marketing guff.

Stem is 9 degrees from memory, by the way.

Any pics of you riding? Maybe some of your riding group? Or are they on another laptop.. shame if they are....

I also like the lame defence of this post off the bat. Makes a change from the usual vomit wink.