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National Cycle Network cuts a quarter of its routes on safety grounds.
Review by Sustrans rules that only traffic-free routes will be part of its network, which excludes the UK’s most popular long-distance cycle path
I agree. Absolutely ridiculous to see cycle routes promoted puting you on a fast road where you are in fear of your life (last 122 miles of LeJoG on the A9 for example).
Going to blow a lot of the Stirling stuff out of the water. Problem is that much of their off-road stuff is not fit for purpose either.
Problem is that much of their off-road stuff is not fit for purpose either.
That's underfunding for you.
I'd rather we just had a 20 or 30mph speed limit imposed on all roads except motorways.
rather we just had a 20 or 30mph speed limit imposed on all roads except motorways.
So by proxy your in favour of more motorways ?
So by proxy your in favour of more motorways ?
No, happy to leave them as they are.
FWIW, the last 122 miles of LeJoG isn't on the A9 if you are following the Sustrans route.
It became apparent a few years ago that Sustrans was reverting to being more urban-oriented. This makes a lot of sense. Campaigning for safe routes to school etc has a much higher impact than focussing on long distance routes for cycle tourists. Input to the A9 dualling project was confused and divergent because you had one side only wanting local, village-to-village links and the other after a continuous, A9-side cycleway (and, let's face it, funding for both was never going to happen)
During lockdown there was a lot of media chat about less cars on the road after lockdown and people turning more to bikes. Where I live that really hasn't been the case and it's back to "as you were"! Unfortunately some roads (like the A9) are just not safe imo for cycling without a significant change to the rules and attitudes.
Only 3.5km of the A9 is designated as NCN1, a short section north-west of Tain.
No, happy to leave them as they are.
Ah ok so the me me me I'm fine jack attitude.
Essentially cutting off anyone north of Perth and a chunk of North Wales from deliveries and traveling tbh....
Have you a seat in Westminister as that sounds like a suggestion they would have.
And tbh 30mph would just result in more phone use. It's lack of attention and focus on driving that is causing cyclists to be hit . The speed determines the outcome.
This makes a lot of sense. Campaigning for safe routes to school etc has a much higher impact
I'm fully in support of this. At a local level both people and councils need to realise that some lines painted and not enforced on the bit of the road where people park is not suitable infrastructure for anything.
It's not suitable for confident cyclists. It's even less suitable for children.
Children are the ones we need to focus on , they are the ones that will grow up to use their bikes -or not. If the infrastructures not safe for them now , why would the think it's normal to use the bike to go places ?
That’s underfunding for you.
I'm not sure.. is it underfunding or mis-funding?
I've not looked into the funding but simply looking at many routes it seems to me they are getting funding/grants on a per km/mile basis...
Only 3.5km of the A9 is designated as NCN1, a short section north-west of Tain.
Not specific to that but it seems much of the designated routes just don't do joined up thinking... down here were we have a high density of housing/roads etc. it almost seems like they put in the miles of routes over the stuff that was comparatively safe then get to a really crappy and dangerous bit and just say "sod it" and stick in a couple of miles of major roads that in a sensible world bikes would be banned. One very close to me is a bus route and pretty much exactly 2 buses wide... major A road on a steep hill... and lots of construction traffic. This could be completely avoided was it not for several footpath only alternatives.
I’m not sure.. is it underfunding or mis-funding?
I'm not sure either, it was just based on chatting with a guy I know who works for them. He basically said they had lots of great ideas and very little money to make them happen.
Resurfacing that long section through Drumochter must have cost quite a bit.
easy solution to that. Just enforce the law. I’ve never understood why traffic laws aren’t actually enforced properly - it would be self-funding from fines & seized vehicles. You could fund an entire price force just from the “making progress” bellends on here alone 🤣And tbh 30mph would just result in more phone use.
Plus you have the knock-on effect of quieter roads once 25% of drivers (being very generous there) have their licenses taken away. And the small matter of many many lives saved.
It's interesting that the Hebridean Way is being cut. This was one of the most pleasant and courteous routes I've cycled in the uk. Even though it uses some 'main' roads, the level of traffic is pretty low and (nearly) everyone seemed chilled and patient. The variety of bike types doing the route was awesome.
Are they actually going to take down the signs on the routes being cut?
I see the logic but it's a shame. I have had some great times following their mixed routes
easy solution to that. Just enforce the law. I’ve never understood why traffic laws aren’t actually enforced properly – it would be self-funding from fines & seized vehicles.
This
Are they actually going to take down the signs on the routes being cut?
Yes
Agree that something needs to be done, but it will be a pity if they abandon the long distance routes. Could they not just reclassify them to make it plain that there are sections that novices may not like?
Is there an entire NCN route that doesn't include at least one road section?
So does that mean they'll scrap the entire route or just the on road sections, leaving us with disconnected sections all over the place?
easy solution to that. Just enforce the law. I’ve never understood why traffic laws aren’t actually enforced properly
I can only assume that you live in a country that has a police force that hasn't been stripped bare.
I’d rather we just had a 20 or 30mph speed limit imposed on all roads except motorways.
I would prefer properly designed, implemented and maintained cycling infrastructure.
I’m not sure.. is it underfunding or mis-funding?
I’m not sure either, it was just based on chatting with a guy I know who works for them. He basically said they had lots of great ideas and very little money to make them happen.
Resurfacing that long section through Drumochter must have cost quite a bit.
Yeah it's not that I think they are well funded but that the design is based around maximising funding rather than use-ability and safety. England being worse hit than Scotland or Wales (though not NI) due to footpaths especially over avoiding roads altogether.
I would prefer properly designed, implemented and maintained cycling infrastructure.
Resurfacing that long section through Drumochter must have cost quite a bit.
That was BEAR.
TBH I think some of this is a power play by Xavier Brice. He is trying to bluff the Govt into assigning additional funding and he has decided that this is when he likely has most influence. I think he is destined to lose.
One thing that the patchy network has done is to show demand. If there's good infrastructure between A and B and between C and D then it encourages cyclists between B and C and this can result in improvements there too. We've seen exactly this on NCN78 north of Oban.
That’s underfunding for you.
Maybe. But sustrans should stop lending their name to crappy infrastructure that is completely unsuitable for leisure or utility cycling.
So does that mean they’ll scrap the entire route or just the on road sections, leaving us with disconnected sections all over the place?
Well TBF the roads will still exist, but as sustrans can't hand on heart say they meet the standard of "being safe" throughthey'll simply not have a NCN designation.
I'll be interested to see how it affects some of my local routes where there are sections that are part of NCN on roads that are busy during certain peak hours and then relatively quiet off peak/weekends. How high/low is the bar set?
I can only assume that you live in a country that has a police force that hasn’t been stripped bare.
This. Coupled with the clear lack of understanding of the costs of the justice system being more than a few cops in cars.
Enforcing it is about much more than just catching them. You have to get it to stick.
It's largely futile because of the me first attitudes in this country you don't even have to go out of this thread to see it at work.
I'd suggest that the routes remain signed, but with some sort of grading in place to take account of traffic levels etc. In some places, this already happens where there are on-road and "mtb" alternatives.
One of the nicest traffic free routes near us has been closed recently (private road through Eythrope Park) apparently due to the actions of some bellends on bicycles, makes me want to bloody scream at times, hopefully the waddesdon greenaway won't end up the same way 🙁
Sustrans are useless. Built/Signe miles of poor quality cycle routes to hit a target without consideration for practicality or suitability. Then produce some guidance on cycle design standards that is gauge and doesn't really promote the building of high-quality safe infrastructure, said it was actually forgot purpose, it would expose all their existing routes as poorly designed. And because everyone has heard of them, their shit guidance gets gets promoted as the gold standard, meaning more shit gets built.
Personally I'd like to see sustrans and every scrap of their influence wiped from history, replaced with a single piece of highway legislation requiring a minimum standard of cycle route. If you can't build it to that standard, don't build it, or change the road layout do you can build something worthwhile.
NCN6 goes past the end of my road. I wouldn't let my kids use it to go to the park!
But sustrans should stop lending their name to crappy infrastructure that is completely unsuitable for leisure or utility cycling.
This. As a lobbying association, they've spent time and effort trying to engage with councils and then, when the council finally throw them a few crumbs of a shit bit of alleyway, they proudly put their name to it and call it part of a "network".
Reality is that you're never going to get meaningful conversion to cycling if the "network" is a random mix of towpaths, gravel tracks, paint along a main road and dark, unlit disused railway line round the back of a sink estate, and you never know which bits are which until you arrive at a bit on your road or touring bike and discover you need a full on MTB with mudguards.
Sustrans are useless. Built/Signe miles of poor quality cycle routes to hit a target without consideration for practicality or suitability.
NCN6 goes past the end of my road. I wouldn’t let my kids use it to go to the park!
Yep I'm right on part of a route... but somehow it's inflexible. only 100m away is a car free park by the stream and flood defenses with lots of paths... Our avenue used to be fairly safe but why not use the car free route 100m parallel that joins the very top - the sustrans pre-dates the park and the "traffic calming"? Since they put in traffic calming our avenue is treacherous... staggered parked cars everywhere and bollards and speed ramps. Cars dash between the staggered areas and speed ramps..and no visibility especially with kids playing. The speed ramps would actually be fun on a bike if it wasn't for the bollards and staggered cars.. (they are this time of night as you can clear them) but the cycle path is 100m away...FFS... why can't they change it to reflect the new park and the far more dangerous conditions.
Reality is that you’re never going to get meaningful conversion to cycling if the “network” is a random mix of towpaths, gravel tracks, paint along a main road and dark, unlit disused railway line round the back of a sink estate, and you never know which bits are which until you arrive at a bit on your road or touring bike and discover you need a full on MTB with mudguards.
This raises another question... what/who are the routes/network for?
It seems a bit of a challenge to get a network that is suitable for the masses on bigger tyres with tread and mud guards and a shopping basket and a road bike with 700x24 semi claiming the gravel chipped their £5000 frame.
Bear in mind Sustrans aren't just about cycling, though NCN obviously is.
I have no problems with fines for motoring offences covering the full cost of enforcement. And proper bans at 12 points. Just a month. No excuses. No car. Make people see that their actions have real consequences if their license is taken away, on their families, their ability to work, get the shopping.
have no problems with fines for motoring offences covering the full cost of enforcement. And proper bans at 12 points. Just a month. No excuses
I'd also love that.
I think you have more chance of getting a fully functional Dutch style cycle network in the next year than getting proper punishment for car drivers in the next 10
As it is the cars the weapon of choice.for almost no reparcussions
Sustrans are definitely playing a game here. If you look at their new map, it now means most of the long distance routes have sections which are no longer part of the National Cycle Network. Large parts of NCN1 north of Berwick, for example. So what is the point of the route? Are cyclists expected to use the NCN and then just stop riding in the middle of nowhere. This seems like a political decision on their part & I can’t see it working.
Maybe something has rattled their cage about possible litigation if someone tries action against them for advertising "safe" routes which turn out not to be.
Large parts of NCN1 north of Berwick, for example. So what is the point of the route?
As I said up there ^^^ long distance routes are no longer the focus of Sustrans (if they ever really were). Many if them only came about as a way of linking shorter, urban sections, which also explains why they often take strange diversions.
Regardless of the poor opinion many on here have if the organisation I think this is a very retrograde step. In fact, I think it might have just set the UK back 20 years in the establishment of a viable inter-town cycle network.
[I]Is there an entire NCN route that doesn’t include at least one road section[/I]
I think the article said urban roads up to 20mph, and rural up to 40mph is acceptable. It's the faster roads that are deemed inappropriate.
Our ‘National Cycle Network’ is a bit of national embarrassment. A lot of the off road sections should really also be removed from the network until they’ve been brought up to standard.
I sometimes wonder what European cycle tourists think when they roll off the ferry at Dover and on to NCN1 (theoretically our contribution to EuroVelo 12) and have to overcome numerous gates and chicanes that you can’t fit a loaded bike through, poor signage, 17% gradients on muddy, potholed rural roads, numerous farm tracks, rough single track around field margins, a section that is underwater for 2 months of the year, and narrow stretches hemmed in by barbed wire and covered in broken glass round the back of industrial estates. All before they even make it to London!
To be slightly fairer to Sustrans, they’ve never had the funding or the powers necessary to deliver such an ambitious network, and have to rely on volunteers, existing rights of way and the goodwill of landowners and local authorities. It means that one unhelpful farmer can result in a 5 mile detour, and local authorities concerns about anti social behaviour can result in routes that are unusable by cargo bikes, trailers and anything with wide handlebars or panniers. Really, Sustrans, or whoever else is going to be responsible for a National Cycle Network needs to be a properly funded part of the DfT with the power to CPO land, and to impose routes and standards on local authorities. They should also be consulted on every major highways improvement and road building project to assess whether these should also include a separated cycle way. Unfortunately I can see that happening any time soon in this country.
they’ve never had the funding or the powers necessary to deliver such an ambitious network,
And there's the rub. We can be quick to slag them off but for a charity that relies on donations, volunteers and cooperative landowners/authorities, they've done the best they can.
And there’s the rub. We can be quick to slag them off but for a charity that relies on donations, volunteers and cooperative landowners/authorities, they’ve done the best they can.
The problem is that "the best they can" is quite often used as an excuse to be crap. And Sustrans, keen for more funding, more publicity etc, were always happy to sign stuff off/put their name to it on on the basis that "anything is better than nothing" which it quite blatantly isn't.
It's a national disgrace that active travel is managed by a well-meaning bunch of volunteers within a charity organisation. Can you imagine if the motorways were run the same way?!
I mean, I do sympathise - if you're waiting for perfection before signing stuff off, you'll never get anything done. But if you sign off any old stuff, you get a reputation for being shit...
I also think the ‘Paths for Everyone’ idea is fundamentally flawed. A route which is suitable for people pottering about with their toddler on a balance bike or walking the dog isn’t going to be much use to a commuter for example. You can’t please everyone & if they are going for the slowest recreational segment then they are no longer about ‘sustainable transport’ & aren’t serious about getting cars off the road.
It’s a national disgrace that active travel is managed by a well-meaning bunch of volunteers within a charity organisation. Can you imagine if the motorways were run the same way?!
Hit the nail on the head
As for motoring laws, the most effective thing you could do would be to introduced presumed liability. It wouldn't require enforcement and it wouldn't result in a massive increase in journey times for large parts of Wales and Scotland. But it would require a bit of political will so its never going to happen.
Just had a look at the updated maps.
My favourite post work ride from Glasgow out to Strathaven and back is now gone. All quiet b-roads with barely a car on them at any time, but they are on NSL roads so that's it instantly culled from their network.
Yet somehow the NCN7 section from Kilbirnie to Irvine, which is on NSL country roads, has somehow survived.
Can't understand the logic here at all
It does seem that there is a bit of sophistry going on. There are still Routes, it's just that they're not all part of the Network. 🤔
I had a Twitter Ad today from VisitScotland promoting cycling the length of the Outer Hebrides and linking to the Sustrans page. It's all on road, so is it, or isn't it, NCN780? If it isn't, who will be looking after the signage, reporting dangerous road faults etc?
Same question round my way where NCN7 runs. As a Sustrans volunteer, I'd previously been involved in litter picking, signing, status reporting, removing vegetation and even cutting a fallen tree. As far as I am aware, all of the local volunteers have now stopped this work, mostly due to the emphasis on urban travel.
I used to work for them. About 4 or 5 years ago - just as the old CEO retired - they were suddenly faced with a huge shortfall in funding (I mean, aside from the £42m handout from the National Lottery in 1995, and the Connect2 projects, they have never been well-funded).
They had to restructure (which involved many, many redundancies of which I was one, and many offices/departments closing) and re-focus: Instead of building infrastructure (v expensive) they chose to focus on 'behaviour change' (v cheap). Lobbying govt policy-making, and grass-roots campaigns to get kids cycling took priority.
Whilst they are all about all forms of sustainable travel, they viewed their National Cycle Network as the jewel in their crown. Sadly, however, austerity meant maintenance, upgrades and extensions of the NCN fell by the wayside. A few years ago they embarked on a massive survey (stock take) of their NCN and realised how bad it had become and how little of it was actually traffic-free.
It always baffled me how they could be proud of a National Cycle Network that was 70% on-road, and a great deal of the traffic-free stuff was 'MTB only'.
(However what really grips my sh1t is they amount of money they spaffed on internal bureaucracy over the years, and the countless (now overgrown) art installations along what few traffic-free trails they had. Where could that money have been better spent, I wonder?).
But if you sign off any old stuff, you get a reputation for being shit…
I don't think they do have a reputation for being shit. Some sections of routes are poor, yes, but I'm not aware of anyone within our 400 strong cycle club, or the 200 strong group of leisure cyclists I led before, where anyone said "Sustrans are shit because that section of path gets muddy or that section of road is steep/busy/potholed"
Again, some of these changes don't make sense. They still have the on road route into Stevenston but the off road path between Ardrossan and West Kilbride is missing, as is Hunterston to Fairlie.
It does serve to highlight how bad the infrastructure is though, it doesn't help that the only suitable roads out of Largs have never been "adopted" and any route planner tries to fling you over the A760 or up the A78 rather than over the U roads to the North. Or the f'n nimbys in Fairlie that did their damnest to block a multi use path away from the road.
This decision seems to be a massive own goal for Sustrans. I first read of this decision on another forum - the over riding emphasis was of "bikes have no place on our roads and look, now even sustrans agree".
Sustrans are likely playing politics here, but have shot themselves in the foot.
“bikes have no place on our roads and look, now even sustrans agree”.
I'd be hard pressed to argue against that given some of the roads. Their routes aren't fit for purpose and this is highlighting the fact. It's now up to LA's and national governments to pull their fingers out and stop papping any old shite off as a cycle route.
It became apparent a few years ago that Sustrans was reverting to being more urban-oriented. This makes a lot of sense. Campaigning for safe routes to school etc has a much higher impact than focussing on long distance routes for cycle tourists.
Agree, to an extent. However, we know rural roads can be more dangerous than urban ones and the existing network, both on and off-road is essential to commuters as well as leisure cyclists.
There is a legacy issue with many routes having been planned almost entirely around leisure cycling, and all too often taking an unnecessarily convoluted and inefficient route from A to B, but I think it's important not to underestimate how important the NCN is. I use it almost every time I plan a new route.
It’s interesting that the Hebridean Way is being cut. This was one of the most pleasant and courteous routes I’ve cycled in the uk. Even though it uses some ‘main’ roads, the level of traffic is pretty low and (nearly) everyone seemed chilled and patient.
Pleasant routes for experienced cyclists used to riding in traffic. The question is, would you allow your child to cycle there unaccompanied, which I think is the standard Sustrans are aiming for here?
I also think the ‘Paths for Everyone’ idea is fundamentally flawed. A route which is suitable for people pottering about with their toddler on a balance bike or walking the dog isn’t going to be much use to a commuter for example.
To be fair, we probably have an unusual idea of commuting in this country, where we get lycra'd up, the road bike comes out, and we smash out 15 miles head down into a headwind all the way to work, arriving in a sweaty mess. I went out on the bike this morning, and I watched somebody drive, literally about 300 yards to work. In fact my neighbour does the same. Everybody I know drives everywhere, regardless of distance. I can't remember the exact stats, but I think half of UK journeys are 5km or less? If we're to encourage commuting and utility cycling, these are the people we're aiming at. School kids too. In some of the Northern European nations, you're encouraged to cycle to school from the age of 6. A truly functional cycle network should be suitable for everyone.
Our ‘National Cycle Network’ is a bit of national embarrassment.
...
I sometimes wonder what European cycle tourists think when they roll off the ferry at Dover and on to NCN1...
I read that first sentence and my next immediate thought was NCN1 and its place in the Eurovelo network. How that ever got approved is a mystery.
I do hope Sustrans know what they're doing. It does sound like there are some political games being played. I would prefer some reclassification of existing routes, but it sounds like this is a push for something bigger. I hope it works out.
I wonder if they are also going to remove the signs from the removed routes ?
I wonder if they are also going to remove the signs from the removed routes ?
Apparently they are. Source: a comment on Twitter so make of that what you will.
I'd rather see an honest re-classification. Keep the routes but grade then like trail centres.
Green - segregated tarmac suitable for anyone
Blue - contains sections of towpath / gravel track, might be muddy after wet weather
Black - contains sections of busy road really only suitable for experienced riders.
etc
That way you could "shame" councils, landowners etc in to trying to get as Green a route as possible, almost like a rewards system. Hold them up as examples of best practice, standards to aim for. Just binning them off seems like a bit of an own goal, almost saying "that stuff we campaigned for, put our name to etc - yeah, it was all shit".
I see The Way of The Roses is now The Way of The Rose and The Way of The Other Rose now. Actually the chunck that's gone missing is the fast road over Greenhow from Appletreewick through Pateley Bridge as fas as the turn off near Brimham. Only place I got a flat when I did it, and I pushed and carried a few hundred yards to get to Stump Cross Cavern car park rather than sort it on the verge.
Long overdue in my view. NCN designation should always have guaranteed a minimum standard, to at least have included usuable by any bike, with any tyres, in any weather, and able to travel by trike or with a trailer without being blocked by gates and barriers. Traffic allowable if not scary fast roads, certainly not sharing A roads.
Once met a very unhappy Dutchman on the TPT who had assumed NCN would give him a nice easy ride from Hull to Stockport, he was a day behind schedule at Doncaster and ready to give up. We have a few recumbent and handcyclists near me, they've never gone anywhere near Sustrans routes.
The journey planner is part of a shake-up of the National Cycle Network (NCN) in Scotland by custodians, Sustrans, in their work to make the Network more accessible for everyone and provide a more consistent user experience.
Through their online mapping, the charity now promotes information for on-road ‘Named Routes’ best suited for an experienced, adult cycle-touring audience. These routes make use of the NCN but do not run wholly on the Network.
BTW - Loch Tarff in the background there. A nice bivvy spot if you want to watch otters and used as a backdrop in one of the scenes in the movie Local Hero.
Sustrans have sent an e-mail which says:
We're reclassifying some sections of the Network which are better suited to more experienced riders or for cycle touring. And removing a small percentage of routes from the Network map. These are sections which fall far too short of the high standards we aspire to, such as on those on the fastest and busiest roads.
Doesn’t really clarify much. Do they mean that reclassifying routes results in something that they will still have a map of & you will be able to follow signs on the ground? Do they intend to leave some routes orphaned in the middle of nowhere because a section is too fast? Makes BoJo look like a model of clear and unambiguous messaging
Looking in detail at what has been dropped and what has been retained, it makes even less sense. There's a very short section of B road near me which is no longer part of the network, yet the many miles leading up to and after it are. The road on the south side of Loch Tay is still considered to be part of NCN7, but the road between Dull and Weem isn't. The former is twisty and narrow, the latter wide and with good sight-lines. I know which one I feel safer on!
That South Road is really slow and not one that gets used particularly much, I'd be a lot happier using that than the north side which is the main drag for all traffic from Pitlochry. The only destinations on that road are the Crannog and watersports centre, both of which are at the extreme ends.
That South Road is really slow and not one that gets used particularly much, I’d be a lot happier using that than the north side which is the main drag for all traffic from Pitlochry. The only destinations on that road are the Crannog and watersports centre, both of which are at the extreme ends.
And all the campervans busily trying to spot stopping places 🙂
intesrting that that journey planner for the Loch Ness 360 still sends you the hike a bike way out of Foyers (from what I can tell). Keen to have another crack at the Caledonia Way some time too (another, in as much as last attempt never happened, trains booked, even guest house booked, route sorted - then you know COVID).
intesrting that that journey planner for the Loch Ness 360 still sends you the hike a bike way out of Foyers (from what I can tell).
The map shows both
https://lochness360.com/about/how-to-walk-the-trail/ describes the Glenn Lia option for cyclists.
It's well intentioned but it should probably include the removal of some of the more dangerous bits of path (for example, in Edinburgh, the NCR754 goes over Slateford Viaduct - the towpath here is barely a bike width and it's cobbled poorly rather than paved with a camber toward the water. Cyclists heading into town have to stop to let those going out of town by, whilst those heading out of town fight to avoid slipping off the edge if they're not experience. It's not safe at all for a kid riding on their own). And there'a lot of features on the NCN that are a hazard for inexperienced cyclists as well as users with kid seats, kid trailers, cargo bikes and, probably more importantly, mobility scooters and wheelchairs. My wife cycles to and from work every day but just cannot cope with the stupid motorbike barriers where you have to zigzag round them.
Hopefully this is Sustrans moving to a more user friendly model, and at the same time putting the pressure on for more funding (probably fruitlessly, mind you).
@scotroutes - I know - and I'd not willingly do the walker route again - but the VisitScotland click through for the Loch Ness 360 - for cyclists (as far as I can navigate) shows the orange line as the walker trail. I'm not able to download their GPX to verify.
This by navigating that planner link - https://www.visitscotland.com/see-do/active/cycling/national-routes/map/#/loch-ness-360
And all the campervans busily trying to spot stopping places 🙂
I don't remember any of that but I'll bow to your judgement.
Edinburgh, the NCR754 goes over Slateford Viaduct – the towpath here is barely a bike width and it’s cobbled poorly rather than paved with a camber toward the water.
I'd regularly see someone wheelieing along there - on a beat up old BSO.
ah well now its no longer ncn you couldn't possibly ride on it using your own judgement to join up the dots.
ive never looked for "cycle routes" when ive planned my rides in various parts of the world .
i just look for places i want to go and join the dots with roads that look like they may be safe.
Google maps has helped massively with this .
as i said ealier focusing on urban grass roots stuff makes sense get folk using them habitually before you concentrate on the town to town stuff.
garner support at a young age and you have a generation that will grow up in support rather than a few tourers from a different country ticking off your country on their map.
I’d regularly see someone wheelieing along there – on a beat up old BSO.
Nice boys can't wheelie.
Probably from Wester Hailes
I’ll bet he wouldn’t try it if the transvestite pusher-in was on the prowl.
@trail_rat unfortunately Google maps is utter shite at saving custom routes and in the first instance can throw in some utter howlers. That said, it's easy enough to use it to plan a route and break it up as needed.
As you say though, better to concentrate on grass root stuff and build a critical mass that can demand better later as a natural progression. And as I said, hopefully the new gaping holes will shame those in charge into filling them properly.
I’ll bet he wouldn’t try it if the transvestite pusher-in was on the prowl.
I've only had one run in with him once but have had to console a few folk who've been on the end of one of his tirades. I only ever see him on the aqueduct yelling at people.
i just look for places i want to go and join the dots with roads that look like they may be safe.
Google maps has helped massively with this .
I'm an obsessive route planner.
The technology we have to plan routes is amazing, but it doesn't replace the local knowledge and research that has gone into designing the national cycle network.
Some of the scariest experiences I've had on a bike have been on roads that looked completely harmless on the map.
Some of the scariest experiences
Some of mine have been on ncn routes deemed to be safe.
When I asked what they were playing at it was * deemed to be the least dangerous*
Pre awpr netherley road out of stonehaven for any one that cares and also pretty much the a92 between Montrose and just past inverbervie.
Deemed safe by someone they didn't have this "local knowledge" that's for sure.
Just as an exercise as I needed to go to Edinburgh 2 years ago I followed ncn to Edinburgh from home and id had so many fast close passes before st Cyrus I decided to revert to local knowledge and get to duck off that road before I was killed. S
^ Looking at the map, that's fair comment, I wouldn't ride that road either.
Where I am there was a nice flat 15 mile stretch of NCN 81 along the canal towpath.
This would be fine if maintenance is kept up. It isn't.
It is now on hilly 'B-roads'
I don't know why.
Sustrans is more of a lobbying organisation than effective implementer of cycle trails - I actually think their handbook on cycling route design is quite good.
Bear in mind there isn't much to go on.
What we need is more government money to build cycle lanes, raised from taxing polluters.
It also needs some courage to commit and see through a long-term strategy.
Coning off commuter routes for 6 months due to Covid is treating the symptoms, not the cause.
Looking in detail at what has been dropped and what has been retained,
Is there a list or map of this somewhere? Can't see anything on the sustrans site.
Imagine of all our roads, pavements or motorways had to be designed, funded and built by a charity and volunteers. Preposterous. And yet that's the way we've organised cycling provision.