[Closed] my wifes theory on targeted bike theft

Don't ride trail centres, go more natural, or ride out from home

My theory- fear of crime is worse than the reality of crime, I just get on with things and in the unlikely event I get robbed, I'll get more bikes with the insurance, bikes with less dents and inexplicable squeaky noises.

you were right the first time, scrotes in a nicked car.

Why would the plate on the car not be cloned? Not a pool car or anything just a car reg of a similar vehicle from elsewhere?

Don't ride trail centres, go more natural, or ride out from home

you dont have to go to a traiil centre for someone to clock your number plate!! And riding from home will hardly help.

Sadly, you wife's theory probably has much merit although i expect you under estimate how many people (neighbours, casual mates down the pub etc) know that you are a keen rider either with or probably with some tasty bikes and they either know or it can be found out where you live.

I'm always v quick to scuttle from house to car with my bike to minimise how many people see it but you cant hide it from everyone, year after year. but then mine is in a mid terraced house with a burglar alarm and not in a shed out the back. I never start Garmin or Strava until i'm well away from the house either.

If you worked at a mail order bike shop, like CRC, you'd have access to thousands of addresses that order bike stuff.

So do the courier/delivery companies of course. And the payment services.

I totally buy the 'followed home' theory, though perhaps it's not applicable in your case.

Strava/Geo-tagged photographs/leaving the bike rack on the car/riding to the shops on the £5k mtb/tinkering the garden/buying & selling from ebay gumtree etc. - I can't believe it when people put the reason for selling as "just upgraded to carbon blah blah blah"

trail centre / DVLA theory more likely IMO. If you broke into my shed from a CRC link you'd find about 30 part worn tyres and a load of 8 speed spares. Crims would know that. However, a reg of a nice new Audi at a trail centre, much more valuable...

I hope I got followed home from the trail centre yesterday, it was a 3hr drive 😆 (Climachx, well worth the journey, thats my new favourite trail. I pity these 'superior beings', that won't ride trail centres, its absolutely brilliant there.)

My theory- fear of crime is worse than the reality of crime,

This, very much so.

Crime in the UK has been falling steadily, yet more of us fear crime. I often wonder why.

They use all kinds of tactics - somethimes you've got to give these shits a bit of respect with regards to the way they conduct thier business. They are always looking, clocking etc.

But sometimes peoples ignorance astounds me - last week I drove home from work and followed an open back jeep through a shit hole estate as it carried 3 very expensive DH bikes - i took a pic on my phone it was that stupid. I'll try n post it - but I couldn't believe how dumb they were being.

I hate to say it willber, but the sort of person who carries three expensive DH bikes on an open top 4x4 on a rough estate is likely to be the local crime baron, therefore unlikely to become a victim. 😥

Crime in the UK has been falling steadily

bollocks

Is your bike carried in the car or on the roof or a rear carrier ? If it's externally visible then the scrotes don't need to follow you from a trail centre/wherever, they can pick you up anywhere.

I like well reasoned posts on crime rates backed up with evidence but hey if not that then a rude word works just as well

My theory- fear of crime is worse than the reality of crime, I just get on with things and in the unlikely event I get robbed, I'll get more bikes with the insurance, bikes with less dents and inexplicable squeaky noises

I have new for old so it would be shit but not that shit

as for paranoia about being followed,DVLA on line stores etc i imagine [for most] it is just paranoia as I assume most criome is done by a local rather than an national gang who travelled to your house after tracking you.
I am not going to stop riding from home, using a tow bar mounted rack or rush from my house only over cover of darkness but each to their own.

Trust nobody, suspect everybody, lock things up tight.
Nothing may happen, but worry and worry and worry that it might 😀

The way crime is reported is falling not the actual crimes.

1 how many bikes were they going to put in the rx8?
2 crime rates have been falling
3 fear of crime outweighs the risk.

The targeted things I have heard of were a few cases of following home in the forest of dean and someone stole a petition sheet from a bike day/event.

After that the services on the way out of dh races and some guys from wrexham way targeting dh races there.

My thought were I'd rather they didnt come into the house and left quickly. I do what the insurance company asks and I was never stupid enough to advertise by leaving bikes on show outside.

I think its massaging the figures that makes crime look like its falling. The prisons are full, there is little deterrent, high rates of youth unemployment. Why would crime be falling?

My bikes are insured when in the shed (money I'd rather not be parting with), but what happens if they are stolen? Does the premium not increase? And if they come back and nick them again, as is often the case, will the insurance company just keep paying out?

post man might know as well 😉

theendisnigh I suggest you google
BCS - British crime statistics
and
Recorded Crime

I think your spot on. There was a well known case in my area of cars being stolen and some of the guys got caught. In the end it came out that they had been passed info from an insurance broker and also some main dealer garages of addresses and security systems.

It's hard to connect serious criminal minds with bike theft ISTM - isn't it too small time? If you were part of a larger criminal organisation, a full time BAD MAN, you'd surely have bigger fish to fry than turning over people's sheds looking for mountain bikes.

There's no doubt the local scrotes are a creative bunch when it comes to nicking your stuff, and will selflessly dedicate themselves to this task. But anything larger than this, involving more coordinated activity, seems a bit unlikely to me.

I had a very odd encounter on Monday when I was on my way to pick up a friends bike with two bikes already on the roof. 4pm, rush hour, gang of 5 chaps on bikes gawp as I drive past and immediately swing round and follow me. I pull up into work to collect friends bike. Chaps loiter round the entrance, hiding behind trees etc, then when I pull out start following me again.I guess they were trying to follow me home, but I was actually driving to Wales. Unfortunately they gave up after two miles!

Slightly unnerving...

I have a theory about your wife....she's part of an organised criminal network that involves people at mail order bike shops, delivery companies, post men and roving gangs of trail centre spies. She takes a 40% cut of the profits from the sale of your bike which she uses to fund her addiction to crazy pills.

Or, most likely it's idle chatter. Probably a friend, or neighbour, or even your wife innocently mentioned to the wrong person that you have an expensive bike....this wrong person knows some dodgy blokes and bish bash bosh. You get robbed.

Personally I struggle to believe in any grand criminal conspiracy. If you steal even an ultra high end, say £4k bike in decent nick it's worth what 2.5k - 3k max after some use. Even meticulous stripping and ebay selling will incur fees that'll make it difficult to get £2.5k for.

Rather than setting up surveillance at trail centres and following cars all over the country and paying off insiders at mail order orgs I could just steal any mid price car from anywhere and sell it to my local unscrupulous breakers. Or I could break it and sell it myself and weigh in the chassis....

You can strip a bike to bits real quick but try getting rid of a car or a motorbike as quick.

How many folk keep the serial number of their fox 40's? How many have their vin No of their car..

stealing from a shed is considered a minor offense regardless of what was stolen. Stealing a vehicle is considered a more serious crime.

Muddyfunster, why say that about my wife? Is that not a bit weird and spiteful?

theendisnigh .

Muddyfunster, why say that about my wife? Is that not a bit weird and spiteful?

It was a joke. Why would your wife accuse people working in CRC of being part of an organised criminal network of bike thieves? Isn't that weird and spiteful and libelous?

And I suppose you'd make that joke if you weren't anonomously hiding over the internet? Coward.

theendisnigh

And I suppose you'd make that joke if you weren't anonomously hiding over the internet? Coward.

No, I'd be too afraid of your wife and her criminal connections.

Buy a land shark (German shephard) or a Newfie/Saint Bernard if you have a family....put it's kennel next to your bikes.

If you get targeted for another break in, the police will be able to trace them through testing their blood and bodily fluids that will invariably be strewn all over your house if they aren't armed and come face to face with your new loveable doggy.

Your wife is reading to much into it.

They just pick an area, go for a walk and come back with whatever they can. I nicked a lorry driver few months ago, caught this person with someones garden hedge trimmer. They just went garden hopping, found a poorly locked shed and off they went.

Takes all sorts.

Seriously, an RX8? You'd be lucky if you could get the wheels in there.

turn up at a trail center on any given sunday. walk the carpark noting all the numberplates.
have a bent mate who has access to the dvla system - its not hard to find someone who has access.
there you have the address where more oftent han not the bike is kept.
had it done to me and thats how they got the bikes

The other day my GF was washing her car using the hose from the garage.

We live in a very quiet "locals village for local people" kinda place, so this is normally totally cool.

However we were cold called from a sales team for Apple Home Improvement out of the blue (as the nature of cold calls are, ya kno) - my GF was actually filling up the bucket round the corner at the time so when I came to the door I caught him eyeing into the garage, looking at my MTB, BMX, and my fathers classic motor.

I noted the number plate down. Debating also moving the bikes indoors for the next few months just in case. The garage is attached to our house and alarmed, tho.

Am I being paranoid?

They use all kinds of tactics - somethimes you've got to give these shits a bit of respect with regards to the way they conduct thier business. They are always looking, clocking etc.

Yes they are - its their job. The sooner people realise this the better. Just as you & I try hard at work etc. they do too at their work. They'll employ whichever method they can whenever they can. They plan things well but are also willing to take any opportunity that presents itself.

Best method is to not advertise the fact you're into your bikes (amazing how many cars have sport/manufacturer stickers on them which act as an advert). Then make it as difficult as possible for them to get into whichever building you keep your stuff. Then make it as hard a possible to remove the stuff from that building with MAHOooosive locks, ground anchors etc. Then finally, ensure you're adequately insured and that your insurance company knows the lengths you've gone to to prevent theft.

The old saying is that if they want it, they'll take it. Your job is to make as bloody difficult as possible so they make as much noise and take as long as possible which then give the Police the best chance of getting there in time or obtaining something of forensic value.

So how many of us remove bike racks from the car I wonder ? I have 3 Thule carriers on the roof and use them twice a week. I remove them once a year to lube and grease.... probably yes, I am advertising I have bikes but realistically what is the alternative ?

I am advertising I have bikes but realistically what is the alternative ?

Errrr, taking them off.

[daily mail] Even though its a pain in the arse it's easier than having to periodically make an insurance claim and replace your bikes, not to mention the spiralling insurance costs as you make more claims.[/daily mail]

Taking off 3 sets of carriers from aerobars at 1130 at night, refitting in a rush after work for an evening ride - yes, definitely better security wise, but time consuming and a lot of faff. I don't disagree that it's sensible, its just unlikely I think for many people

Doubt they'd have been in an RX8. More likely a false reg number surely.

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jan/24/surprise-8-percent-fall-crime ]Some crime statistics here[/url]

86%* increase in middle class paranoia over the same period

*might be made up

my GF was actually filling up the bucket round the corner at the time so when I came to the door I caught him eyeing into the garage, looking at my MTB, BMX, and my fathers classic motor.

Don't engage with anyone you don't know until you have seen photo id, and take a photo of it. Not some silly in-house printed bit of card but something official. (Driving license is ideal).

i expect you under estimate how many people (neighbours, casual mates down the pub etc) know that you are a keen rider either with or probably with some tasty bikes and they either know or it can be found out where you live.

This. Even if you're very careful about coming and going with your bike it's likely that various people know about it, and word might get about to the wrong people.

Also the OP says the bikes on his ground anchor didn't go, which suggests the scrotes weren't fully equipped, which makes it less likely it's some super-organised gang I reckon. Still sucks though.

just to throw some more anecdotal evidence into the mix, a mate of mine bought a new £3k bike from a large online mail order company, took it out of the box, assembled it and left it in his dining room from where it was stolen 4 days after delivery having never left the house. Thieves went straight in, took the bike and left the new 40" telly in the lounge etc untouched. Might have been a coincidence but then again might not have.

just to throw some more anecdotal evidence into the mix, a mate of mine bought a new £3k bike from a large online mail order company, took it out of the box, assembled it and left it in his dining room from where it was stolen 4 days after delivery having never left the house. Thieves went straight in, took the bike and left the new 40" telly in the lounge etc untouched

Curtains open?

Out of sight out of mind. Also my bikes are so dirty most people wouldn't know if they were valuable or not.

[quote=satchm00 ]
Your wife is reading to much into it.

They just pick an area, go for a walk and come back with whatever they can. I nicked a lorry driver few months ago, caught this person with someones garden hedge trimmer. They just went garden hopping, found a poorly locked shed and off they went.

Takes all sorts.

Don't think this is the case. My mate got done last week. They spent a long time getting in - crowbarred the padlock from the door, then crowbarred the door out of the frame as it was held in place with locking bolts. The door's at the back of the garage, as is the only window. The front door of the garage rarely opens.

Once inside they specifically targeted the MTBs, taking all three yet ignoring the two (very nice) road bikes. They also took all the spare tyres, then went through his labelled spares boxes and took everything relating to Hope DIsk brakes

Make no mistake, this is not some amateur who's wandering around and picking up anything left unsecured - this is a person / gang who know exactly what they are looking for and where to get it.

More likely a false reg number surely.

This, unless your neighbour actually clocked the car and positively ID'd it as an RX8. But even then, it could be a cloner. Not exactly difficult to get a false set of plates made up.

I once got a speeding ticket issued against a car that I owned - the offending vehicle was identical in every respect (make, model, colour), but as I was able to prove that I wasn't in the area of the offence at the time, the 5-Oh took the approach that it was a cloned car.

Not sure about the trail centre/DVLA theory as I can't remember the last time I drove to one - almost always get a lift off a mate. Maybe we were followed home but I certainly think my bikes were targeted.

There a 5 houses in a row with sheds on our terrace. We're in the middle yet none of the others were touched.

One person said crime is falling in this country.
Sadly it's not true the fact is its on the up but it's just not reported as much now because the police do little to help and even if someone is caught they get off scot free to do it again.
HANDS OF WITH A MACHETE I SAY.

If it's not being reported, how do you know it is on the up? Can you point to any actual figures, or is this just a hunch?

Sadly it's not true the fact is its on the up but it's just not reported as much now

Yep one of those my mate says lines really, stats there all bull what we need is bigger/more/national service

Best deterrent is to get a reputation as a psycho. Local baddies won't mess with you then. If they are foolish enough to try, you can rape, murder and eat them, keeping their eyeballs as novelty air fresheners.

Yeah until the real local psycho wants to up his rep/sees you as a threat - crying isn't going to save you then :p
Interesting idea though about using mail order lists, I suspect it has happened but I doubt it's the routine way organised gangs work (and I also suspect for most thefts where organised gangs are mentioned they're far from being as grandiose at that implies, more likely just a few chavs that know each other).

For you who post pictures of your bikes on here try to Google your own name. Look at the results for 192.com and see what it shows about you. It's quite easy to find where you live from your name.

I run a blog where local riders can report stolen bikes, so I get a pretty good overview of what's going on in the wacky world of bike crime. The mundane reality is that high-end targeted theft, while it does happen, is only a small part of the problem, and most bikes are nicked by opportunists from sheds, bike stands or "secure storage" (behind coded doors, etc).

If there's one thing we can all do to help prevent bike theft, it's to stop buying from anonymous sources like classifieds websites and Ebay. And sign this.

http://www.stolenbristolbikes.com/2013/02/petition-to-make-serial-numbers.html

Don't engage with anyone you don't know until you have seen photo id, and take a photo of it. Not some silly in-house printed bit of card but something official. (Driving license is ideal).

I wasn't the home owner and promptly told him so before he could finish his introductory sentence. Waited for him to return to his car before going back indoors.

In reality he may of just been looking at the classic car as a lot of people do take an interest in exotic motors.

It is interesting to see when you could get caught out, or "spotted", however. Certainly living in strange times when you have to be careful about people seeing your bikes..!

my GF was actually filling up the bucket round the corner at the time

Not sure why that ^^ made me chuckle to myself... 😀

The various theories above ranging from organised crime to local scrotes are probably all true. MTBs are easily shifted desirable items at the moment so are of interest to organised crime plus local scrotes need to fund their habits.

Can't think who buys off them to make it all worth while though...

Certainly living in strange times when you have to be careful about people seeing your bikes..!

You don't "have" to. That's your choice. Personally, if I saw somebody peering into my shed and looking at my bikes I'd assume they were interested in cycling and have a chat to them about it. But then I naively swan through life assuming that everybody I meet is fundamentally decent. Surprising as that might sound it's done me just fine so far.

Yes, of course, sooner or later some scrote will nick my bike. But you what, I can live with that. It will give me an excuse to buy a new bike and if I'm lucky the insurance company will even help to fund it. What I wont do is live in fear of these scrotes. They can take my bike but they can't take my ... Well you get the idea.

fear of crime is worse than the reality of crime

+ A LOT.

My bikes are insured when in the shed (money I'd rather not be parting with), but what happens if they are stolen? Does the premium not increase? And if they come back and nick them again, as is often the case, will the insurance company just keep paying out?

Lad a work got his bike (and kids bikes) nicked. Replaced nicely by the insurance company. Plonker then proceeded to leave the bike box out the front to be collected with the rubbish. Funnily enough, with the 5' x 4' "I've got a new bike" sign outside, his new bike got taken pretty quickly too. Insurance paid out again, but I'd hate to imagine the premiums next time.

Can't think who buys off them to make it all worth while though...

That would be you, me, and anyone else who has ever bought bike stuff off someone they don't know via a classifieds or auction site.

Crime may or may not be on the up but awareness of it certainly is. Be it via local news online or twitter or forums we hear about it a lot more. I used to follow my local police on twitter for their crime updates, quite frankly it made me a nervous wreck.

[i]most criome[/i]

Irish crime?

Anyway, re the stats thing I'm very doubtful about reading too much into those. A firend of mine who works for the police was explaining to me the other about prior to the crime stats his force get instructed to break down a few doors/carry out a few outstanding warrant arrests etc etc so as to massage their perfomance figures in the annual stats.

EDIT:

[i]The various theories above ranging from organised crime to local scrotes are probably all true[/i]

I'd err on the side of very organised IMHO. More anecdotal evidence here but a firend in Bristol had his lovely Marin full suspension stolen. It was secured via ground anchor in the concrete floor of his garage. They actually sawed the top tube to pinch it leaving him with a small 2" ring of his frame. I can only presume it was taken for the parts and they knew exactly what they were after.

The fewer people know about your bikes, the less chance they'll be nicked.

Keep the garage door shut as much as possible, even when inside it.
block your home address on strava
don't leave a bike rack on the car
don't have stickers all over the car connected with cycling.

lock them up inside the garage, cover them with insurance have the garage alarmed.

There is only so much you can do.

One person said crime is falling in this country.
Sadly it's not true the fact is its on the up but it's just not reported as much now because the police do little to help and even if someone is caught they get off scot free to do it again.

No, the BCS is independant of police statistics, it's carried out as a survey (i.e. ask 10,000 people if they've been a victim of crime, then extrapolate to the population as a whole). Therefore in includes everything that may or may not appear on the police reports even if it was not reported or investigated or otherwise manipulated out of the statistics.

Crime's falling (long term trend)

HANDS OF WITH A MACHETE I SAY.

What punishment for cheeky trail poaching then? Hack the tyres off?

I've never understood why people drive around with bikes displayed like trophies on the roof or boot rack. Mine go inside the car where they're safe from road salt, damage, theft and prying eyes.

I often see people driving around in empty cars with bikes on show and I've even seen vans with bikes on a towbar rack. How stoopid is that?

[b]I've never understood[/b] why people drive around with bikes displayed like trophies on the roof or boot rack. Mine go inside the car

Four Adults, + bike kit + four bikes

Won't fit inside a vauxhall vectra

Hope that helps 🙂

So how many of us remove bike racks from the car I wonder ?

I do, for the reasons discussed. And it doesn't take that long - I've got 4 bike carriers attached to two bars on the roof, I unbolt the roof bars and take the whole thing off as one (a helper here is handy if you want to avoid scratching the car roof though). It really doesn't take very long.

I've never understood why people drive around with bikes displayed like trophies on the roof

Perhaps they need or want to transport them from a place to a different place? That's generally why I do it.

Plonker then proceeded to leave the bike box out the front to be collected with the rubbish

I've never understood why people drive around with bikes displayed like trophies on the roof

I think the point being made is why have bikes on the roof/boot [b]if[/b] they will fit in the car from the point of view that 'advertising' them increases the chances someone will steal them.

Top marks for stealth if they were using an RX8, I would imagine they would have just been going though sheds looking for engine oil.

I'm kind of cynical about bike crime - I remember it was fairly common practice for teenagers to sell a bike, hacksaw a cheap lock and report it "stolen" as a natural part of the upgrade and wear replacement cycle. Sometimes their parents would be perfectly complict. I bet this is still commonplace and skews the stats.

I've never bothered insuring my bikes for more than the maximum on a normal home insurance policy, despite knowing that the garage was burgled burgled at least one before I moved into the house. (do have an alarm and bloody good chain though). I reckon I saved enough in insurance over 5 trouble free years to buy an acceptable used replacement.

I think the point being made is why have bikes on the roof/boot if they will fit in the car from the point of view that 'advertising' them increases the chances someone will steal them.

Small risk versus almost certainlly ruining the interior and causing hundreds of pounds worth of depreciation on your Audi.

+1 I've a 7yr old Ford and the mess made of the rear door cards and boot plastic is probably enough to put anyone except another outdoorsy person off it! Not to mention the kilo upon kilo of mud that can accumulate if you ride more than a coupl eof nights a week anywhere other than a trail center, and then causes condensation inside the car every morning.

I've just fitted a towbar as I couldn't be bothered with all that anymore. I'd put them isnde if it's just me or a couple of us in the car, going a long way and taking a dirtworker, but for everything else they'll be on the towbar.

All you need is a name, internet and access to 192.com and caboom all they need right there.

I'm sure things like the op suggested happens, people do all sorts of dodgy stuff with a link inside any business.