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nickhit3
Member
Re their drop off on social media I believe from what I have seen on their IG that Jordan one of the founders has had phone issues. Either lost it broken so his social media continuity has been interrupted somewhat. Personally I can believe that and I’m not so much into the conspiracy theories around them. I’ve had my own dealings with Sick and whilst I’m never going to be in the market for their core products, I did purchase some of their early merch which, you guessed it, was months late.. however they were v patient with me, courteous and the raport the whole time was fine for me.
The cheque is in the post
The Dog ate my homework
These are not the droids you are looking for.....
Either they have frames or they do not, if times are that bad that they can't access social media then they are ****ed.
The cheque is in the post
The Dog ate my homework
These are not the droids you are looking for…..Either they have frames or they do not, if times are that bad that they can’t access social media then they are ****.
It would be nice to even be acknowledged with an excuse, they just maintain radio silence, the last time I had any contact with them was after I said the customer service guy was as useful as a chocolate tea pot, and that was only to try and shift the blame onto someone else.
I'm calling Bertie Bullshit on someone breaking a phone and not being able to get on facebook etc.
I'm not that 'connected' but I can access facebook etc on any phone / laptop / pad.
That might have cone across more patronising than I intended Nick, if so i apologise.
I just think a lot of people had their cards marked from the start.
I’ll be honest - I’m not in the market for one of their frames but I did contact Jordan about a frame design a while ago and he couldn’t have been more helpful with contacts for suppliers and helping me with the design. Really friendly helpful bloke.
Having been let down massively by a frame builder in the past I understand the frustrations people are feeling. hopefully this gets resolved for everyone involved.
"That might have cone across more patronising than I intended Nick, if so i apologise.
I just think a lot of people had their cards marked from the start"
No offence taken man. 100% agree on the marked cards though. People love a drama eh. As far as this tale goes, I was choosing consciously not to pile in with the lazy hatred based on hearsay etc. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt, because like everyone else here, I don't have a clue what the situation is with them right now. I don't have a horse in this race and frankly don't GAF that others feel compelled to state the obvious. I too see the problems that have emerged with Sick. Do i think a broken phone is important or even a valid excuse for a trainwreck of hacked off customers, no I do not since you all asked so nicely. Just felt it wasn't brilliant to come out the gates with that hot take that was already out there there pages and pages ago.
I get that it's off brand to be evenhanded on here but give it a rest guys.
I don’t have a dog in the fight or anything against Sick but..
I did purchase some of their early merch which, you guessed it, was months late.. however they were v patient with me
From outside that statement sounds a bit mental.
I did purchase some of their early merch which, you guessed it, was months late.. however they were v patient with me
I always love a company who are tolerant of being bollocked for not delivering what I paid for, though it's rare I am able to buy something I don't really deserve and must ask permission from the retailer to be allowed to have their product
😉
don’t really deserve and must ask permission from the retailer to be allowed to have their product
Ah like apple
however they were v patient with me,
Errrr what now? They were patient with you??
Waiting months for a t-shirt??
I ordered a shirt for someone’s birthday from a popular auto shirt place, they refunded me the whole thing when it was a few days late without me asking them to.
The reason why they are getting away with this scam (which it is increasingly looking like) is because of people like you!!
Making t-shirts is a business people do as little kids and do it better than Sick!
I got burned by Dashbot (CHIP) on Kickstarter.. all seems quite similar by the sound of things.
Avoid anything linked to crowd funding is my new rule.
Avoid anything linked to crowd funding is my new rule.
I’ve done pretty well out of Crowdfunding. Only used Kickstarter though, as they only fund if the project gets fully funded, unlike indigogo, where everything pledged goes to those seeking funding, regardless.
Shockwiz, Cranked Magazine and Trickstuff Maximas are the bike ones I’ve done (still waiting on the TS stuff, but that was always an April delivery date, and they’ve been in regular contact).
Always used a credit card too, just in case...
So the pitchforks are out I see because I dared to share a part of my experience buying a tshirt that didn't immediately get a lawyer involved? Yes it was late- no it wasn't great but it wasn't a big deal for me at the time and I was willing to forgive them and move on with my life. Why do you all insist I submit to the view that one MUST eternally hate on something. You guys are somehthing else sometimes.
Look for the record, I wouldn't spend any serious coin with them for the reasons already set out by others. That ok?
If that's not black and white enough, GFYS.
Hunt wheels are a great example of excellent service- I ordered a wheelset over the weekend as they said in stock, got an email Monday which said there may be a weeks delay so they would happily refund the cash- as it happens I needed the wheels quickly so got the refund but they also gave me a discount code for next time I wanted some wheels
Hunt wheels are a great example of excellent service
It's not quite the same as drop shipping a crowdfunded job though is it. I have learned to great cost over the years that doing everything yourself is the only way to not get shafted somewhere in a supply chain.
My sick experience is now over too. Had a notification of refund from PayPal and my cotic bfe arrived yesterday too. Wish I'd just ordered one in the first place
Had a notification of refund from PayPal
Result! Maybe they are cleaning their act up at Sick!
Not quite. They ignored the claim like it didn't exist untill PayPal over ruled it in my favour.
Ah. I wondered if the recent quietness on Insta and the lower key press releases marked an attempt at changing the perception of them.
Can we get a count-off on people waiting on frames/correct frames, just to get some perspective?
the recent quietness on Insta
News just in
Tim and Jordan joined Isis and can't get back in the country. ...they said sorry
If that’s not black and white enough, GFYS.
Oooooh get you!!
It’s not that you must “hate on” something, it’s that you waited months for a t shirt and somehow you think you have done them a favour!! Don’t you see how bonkers that is?
If you really don’t I despair. If they can’t even deliver such a simple product (literally made in minutes either yourself or sending off an order to a t-shirt printers) then what chance do they have of making a £2k+ frame properly and actually delivering it? Turns out very little chance but people who fell for the brand got sucked in.
Can you explain where I stated I felt I was doing them a favour? That's some stretch going on.. I chose deliberately NOT to state that one poor low value transaction ruined my life and the MTB industry. And that's doing them a favour? I won't buy anything from them again personally but it's not ruining my life. I'm not sure how you're arriving at the conclusion that I'm doing them a favour by publicly adding that I too had a bad experience.
This site is a mess. Your hot take is stating the obvious that many others already have - "they can't send a tshirt so can't build bikes, they're a risk you idiot etc"
I UNDERSTAND THAT. why are you all piling in saying the same thing?!!
I don't think it is a scam, I think it is pretty wild to say so, just very badly managed. Unless my idea of a scam is quite different to yours.
I think, myself included, that a lot of people on here and across social media have it in for them and believe they deserve everything they get. Mostly because of their poor attitude towards anyone who didn't wholeheartedly support their ideas. It feels like their 'public relations' from the outset have opened themselves up to a lot of public criticism and discussion. Hence this huge thread when something has gone wrong, people love it, yes it is childish but you just have to go back and read some of their social media posts and comments on here to understand where that comes from...
When you set yourself up with such arrogance, people are desperate to see you fail.
I was just bored, not seen any of the social media stuff. It’s a forum, best not to take it too seriously.
I was just bored, not seen any of the social media stuff. It’s a forum, best not to take it too seriously.
While what goes on on forums isn’t the be all and end all of life, how many folk, having seen this thread/others on different forums, would now buy from them?
Are the problems with Marino their fault? Are there not other good options for them to go to? How long would it take to get up and running with another frame builder?
Vital have a good podcast with frank the welder this week .
Worth a listen
Thanks nonk. Looking forward to that this evening.
Big yim - good news. Glad you got your £ back. I had the same. Once filed the communication stopped and they ignored the pp claim until it was awarded to me.
I’d get in there ASAP with a PayPal claim or card chargeback while they still have some money - if they haven’t blown it on tattoos and bling bike parts. 😂
Nick, I think you’re wording may be confusing the subject, you mention they were months late with their delivery but then say how patient they were with you.
“I did purchase some of their early merch which, you guessed it, was months late.. however they were v patient with me”
Vital have a good podcast with frank the welder this week .
Enjoyed that. Thanks again.
"Are the problems with Marino their fault?"
Sick were claiming they'd come up with a better way of making bikes - the problem is it isn't that easy to set up manufacturing businesses. Either you do it yourself, which is VERY complicated in how you actually do the processes or you out-source which is VERY complicated in how you deal with all the logistics and costings etc. If your supplier has a problem, you have to sort it out because the customer is buying from you - doesn't matter whether you're building frames from raw tubes or selling complete bikes that are coming in from Taiwan already boxed, you will always have a supply chain and it will never run smoothly 100% of the time.
"Are there not other good options for them to go to?"
Yes if they are willing to work like other manufacturers do - and that means buying in quantity and not changing their designs on a weekly basis.
"How long would it take to get up and running with another frame builder?"
The lead times can be very long. At the extreme end, Giant is one of the world's largest bike manufacturers (for lots of other brands, not just themselves) and they schedule every minute of production a year ahead.
I've been running my own direct consumer sales manufacturing business for a decade now and I suspect I've forgotten more in that time than the Sick gentlemen have yet learnt. It's so bloody hard! We've done hardly any marketing for the last two years because we've ended up having to focus so much energy of smoothing out production issues.
I am/was a big fan of their work and I think if the problem was with their supplier and they had emailed all those that were waiting for frames and been open and honest about what was causing the delay then people would be miffed but most would understand but to just cut off communication and ignore emails means the customers have ever right to fear the worst. For a company that were so very quick to reply to anyone that said "it looks like it'll snap in half" the fact they've gone so quiet of late is a worry. I really hope they can turn it around, get frames or refunds to those that need it and learn from their mistakes and come back stronger and ruder than ever.
For a company that were so very quick to reply to anyone that said “it looks like it’ll snap in half
To be fair all I said was that the braze wasn't very good- and it most definantly wasn't. . ..... Thought I was getting a horse's head haha
Jeez that bloke with Instagram page is a dog with a bone !! Looks like sick folk/s were involved in other companies that went tits up 🙁
Why don’t they just get a bunch of Genesis Tarn frames in, find a way to make the paint thinner then rebadge them? Satisfied customers all around.
I think the bloke on IG is taking it lightly. You would be very pissed off if you parted with your cash and invest in that company when you could have gone elsewhere, to now be messed about like that. Just the arrogance of 1- sending the wrong shit in hope the customer would be satisfied, 2- not giving a toss to reply. I’m surprised it hasn’t gone more public yet.
You would be very pissed off if you parted with your cash and invest in that company when you could have gone elsewhere, to now be messed about like that. Just the arrogance of 1- sending the wrong shit in hope the customer would be satisfied, 2- not giving a toss to reply.
This is it in a nutshell
It’s the whole “investing in the company” thing that I don’t get. If you are a customer you pay for a frame and it should be sent to you in a reasonable time frame. Investing in a company is a very different thing and should involve contracts or shares (don’t know exactly but it ain’t buying a product!).
“investing in the company”
Sounds better than ‘taking on all the risk’, doesn’t it.
For anyone waiting on undelivered goods.
I'd be interested to know if that applies to crowd funded stuff. As what you effectively do is give money to the company and instead of equity or shares, you get a reward.
.
I’d be interested to know if that applies to crowd funded stuff. As what you effectively do is give money to the company and instead of equity or shares, you get a reward.
It doesn't AFAIK. If you read the Kickstarter t&CS then they make it clear that they're just middlemen, and if you lose your money then they will do **** all.
I got screwed for £100ish on there. Deleted my account. ****ers 😆
Just seen that a friend has posted some pics of a new bike on Strava, and it appears to be a Sick! frame.
So they're obviously sending some out.
Don't know when he got it though, might have been a few months ago, and he's only just built it up.
if you lose your money then they will do **** all.
This... they are happy to send the pledges cash out but couldn't care less if its misappropriated.
CC might help, but theres a time frame withing which they'll help.. if you've been waiting a while, then CC's propably out of time!
It doesn’t AFAIK. If you read the Kickstarter t&CS then they make it clear that they’re just middlemen, and if you lose your money then they will do **** all.
What if you pay with a CC though? Would they say ‘well, you’ve given them the money, that’s what you wanted, right?’ Or would they do a chargeback if you didn’t get your reward?
Or would they do a chargeback if you didn’t get your reward?
Kickstart being another way for investing, you are not buying something you are investing and that is a key difference
That’s what I thought. Makes me laugh when companies, sick included, go on about how it’s a low risk option on the Kickstarter and indigogo pages. Yes it is for the project as the investors assume it all. But they don’t mention that...
Kickstart being another way for investing
Dont think you're investing as you don't receive any shares or any return on the "pledge".
I'd call it advanced purchase in most cases.
But in the cases that most people would go for you are getting a product first, at a discount. I've not looked back in a while but most good cases were giving a decent pitch as ti where they were.
Dont think you’re investing as you don’t receive any shares or any return on the “pledge”.
The product is your return, as you get it cheaper, supposedly, and sooner than the rest of the market. The value of investments can go down as well as up.
Maybe Sick are the people behind the Cyclotron bike/scam also on Kickstarter?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1989795590/the-cyclotron-bike-revolutionary-spokeless-smart-c
The comments section is interesting reading.
The product is your return, as you get it cheaper, supposedly, and sooner than the rest of the market.
Well, I guess there's inherent risk with all investments... not getting the product being the risk.
Dragons den is investments.. Kickstarter is a massive opportunity for fraud imo
I "invested" in Dashbot.. $100 out of my pocket, $265k raised.. no pledgers saw anything.
Dashbot
This scenario is not unique to crowd sourced fundraising projects unfortunately.
I “invested” in Dashbot.. $100 out of my pocket, $265k raised.. no pledgers saw anything.
Dashbot
This scenario is not unique to crowd sourced fundraising projects unfortunately.
Spanish friend of mine took me round the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona once, Gaudi's unfinished masterpiece. I asked him when they would be finished renovating it and he burst out laughing. Never, as then they'd have to stop asking for money for it...
The computer game Star Citizen is another infamous one - 200 million (!) crowdfunded and no game after six years, but enough parts of a game, and plastic toy spaceships, to keep people on the hook.
Maybe Sick are the people behind the Cyclotron bike/scam also on Kickstarter?
Tbh I think it was obvious from the beginning to any 'proper' cyclist that the Cyclotron was vapourware of the highest order.
If they do actually deliver I'll eat my bike.
At least Sick have actually delivered sone frames in the past (though that's cold comfort to those not getting anything now)
im Certainly not a hater. Actually quite like the look of a few of their frames haven’t followed this since the beginning I’m just really surprised no one had questioned the word experance in the title!
Or is deliberate..,
^This is a trend here that I have obliquely commented on before. It is bizarre, given how ready people are to have a pop at each other generally, that there is a code of omertà when it comes to spelling and grammar.
<blockquote^This is a trend here that I have obliquely commented on before. It is bizarre, given how ready people are to have a pop at each other generally, that there is a code of omertà when it comes to spelling and grammar.
err its good internet etiquette to not pick people up on spelling and grammer TBH.
err its good internet etiquette to not pick people up on spelling and grammer TBH.
It's good...
never heard of it, looked it up, saw a picture of the bike, then read this 'A big thank you to Guillaume Bout for the amazing renders'
there is no (gnar) spoon
I think the bloke on IG is taking it lightly. You would be very pissed off if you parted with your cash and invest in that company when you could have gone elsewhere, to now be messed about like that. Just the arrogance of 1- sending the wrong shit in hope the customer would be satisfied, 2- not giving a toss to reply. I’m surprised it hasn’t gone more public yet.
Anyone got the link?
grizzlygnarcissist reads this thread so post any comments on your dealings with Sick or contact him via IG
I think this thread deserves a link to the Duffbags thread, simply because I just re-read that and I'm now crying with laughter at my desk at Davidtaylforth's posts 😀
I was personally promised (at their Stanmer yard sale thing) they physically had Ti bars in stock and they'd be on sale in early December so I could have a pair as a Christmas present.
Never seen a word of them since on any of their social media accounts, they've stopped replying to requests for status updates and I didn't get a Christmas present.
At least I hadn't handed any money over, I guess.
My guess is they were promised things by suppliers that the suppliers only had a very small chance of delivering on time and on budget. But they’ve taken the money from customers, paid it to these overseas suppliers and now they’re stuck with no money and no products. And they’re now playing for time hoping the suppliers might come good and relying on new orders to keep them afloat.
I’m not even convinced the Cyclotron thing is a scam but a project led by a team that is lacking either anyone with bike knowledge or anyone that’s a competent mechanical engineer. Delusional.
Found this one.. most of their stuff is now discounted.
https://streamable.com/tu480
If playing for time means ignoring everyone then they are doing it well.
And they’re now playing for time hoping the suppliers might come good and relying on new orders to keep them afloat.
Or any number of things, but yes most likely involving not enough capital to execute their plan
Wow that guy on insta is angry! Followed him and he has been commenting on all my posts telling me how angry at sick! He is
i reckon grizzly bloke is a clever marketing ruse...oj bumped his wife off and got loads of PR from it
you know what they say theres no such thing as bad publicity
err its good internet etiquette to not pick people up on spelling and grammer TBH.
Grammar, not grammer.
Those on the Sick! mailing list have just had an email. Interesting reading. On the mobile at the moment so won’t attempt to post, but they’re certainly still here and looking to the future.
Been too.busy at the post office?
**COPIED FROM THE MAILING LIST EMAIL**
At some point we had to answer the whispers that are going around.
Once I’d heard that I had secretly quit Sick, I knew it was time for a mailout.
In actuality, the opposite has happened.
From the 1st March, I’ll be working at Sick full time.
The short version is I’ve spent the last few weeks working with other manufacturers and under mentorship from larger bike companies to get better at doing this. To step up and lead the whole Sick team. So some changes are coming and I’ve outlined them in detail below. It's a long one, and there is heaps to take in.
TL:DR We will be writing to ALL customers with a delayed frame, within the next 48 hours with an accurate time of delivery as updated from our manufacturers, we’ll build in customs clearance time. (This will include any crowdfund frames or items we are waiting for)
Our customers have had to be very, patient; if it included you, thank you. We do appreciate it.
It’s incredibly frustrating to not get this on track yet, we’ve worked hard and dedicated a lot of time an energy and we ARE getting there.
We are NOT businessmen, we are a handful of riders who wanted to make cool bikes, and although we are new to this, we are learning. And we are honoured you are on this journey with us. There are alot of people that want to see us fail, but thankfully, far more people want us to succeed.
Pre-orders allowed us to get the price down so people could afford it, that was our primary goal.
It's very unpredictable and that’s a hard lesson to learn.
What’s changing?
I will be working full time on Sick from March, I’ll have a more production and logistic based role ensuring frames get to the warehouse and to the customer on time. Whilst this has been one of my focusses, I’ve been responsible for a lot of other jobs too, it’s been hard to balance.
Joe will be taking over the entirety of the clothing side of the business and a large amount of it will be moving in-house, allowing for even more control.
Some of our staff will be moving on from more casual roles in to larger part-time positions, allowing me and Tim to focus on the business as a whole.
We’ll be taking on additional customer service staff and utilising Zendesk ticket system to more effectively manage timely responses, this will help customers stay informed and stop some of the duplication we are getting which is slowing things up. 9/10 problems are delays or missing items, we are confident once we overcome this teething period. These will dramatically reduce.
More Suppliers, larger capacity, no more pre-orders.
We were just as surprised as anyone that the Wulf and Deathwish sold so well, we overwhelmed our manufacturers and needed to take a break for them to catch up, even with extra staff onboard, even with the 60 day break, they were still swamped. Overselling is a good problem to have but very much a problem. The challenge is you can’t rush handmade frames, a rushed frame is going to be a bad frame, quality and safety is incredibly important to us. We are valued for our strong frames.
I have spent the last 6 months working with various established, larger manufacturers, negotiating and working towards a process where we can meet demand for frames without pre orders.
We now have 5x more production capacity than we did 2 months ago. Whilst we have made great steps, it will take a bit of time to kick in.
We made mistakes.
We communicated badly, it was embarrassing to say, “it's going to be late, again”, even if it wasn’t our fault, because when you boil it down, we are responsible for delivering on time in full. We were so fixated on solving the problems, we didn't have the time or energy to communicate that's what we were doing. This worried people and kept them uninformed. That ends now.
We didn't put any focus on profit, we all had full time jobs already, so getting paid wasn’t a big deal, but as we scaled up it became clear that we had to take it seriously. That this couldn’t just be a hobby when it was taking up 7 days a week, we would need to pay the staff too.
We got tripped up on eCommerce, when it works well, its amazing, but we had to fight paypal and banks for double charges and CC fraud, we had to spend a huge amount of time getting some frames found after they were stolen from a courier. We didn't have the hours in the day to do it. There was very little contingency if something had gone wrong.
Alot of manufacture lead companies (YT and Canyon spring to mind) get a lot of heat for holding ‘scams’ (take a look at the Trustpilot reviews and they are quite something). All of our payments are bound legally to deliver. The customer is ALWAYS protected. But communication of that protection is important to.
Inevitably pre-order manufactured stock is subject to delay. It’s one of the reasons the price is low because the risk for the manufacturer and client is lower. The crux is no one shouts when their bike is early. We have a saying, “No one remembers a late delivery, but they would remember a bad one.”
International Frame Shipping
We will be discontinuing our automatically fulfilled global shipping on frames. Please note clothing and components will be unaffected, anything that has already been ordered will be unaffected, we will manually cost out international frame orders. This has been a drain in terms of money and time, we have unhappy clients from the delays this causes, but it also tends to end up a net loss for the business. By dealing with shipping outside of the UK/EU on a case-by-case basis, the customer will have a better understanding of the costs and time involved. In short, we will ship globally, but you’ll need to speak to us first.
It’s important for us to communicate to you, we’re not going away anytime soon.
We never take your support for granted.
Jordan, Tim, Zam, Lee & James.
P.S.
I took a break from social media for a variety of reasons, my phone breaking was a bit of a blessing in disguise, I realised, it was nice that I could touch base with customers in real time, but I was dedicating a lot of time to that when I needed to be focussed.
It meant it was easy to make personal promises, I would run out of time to handle and let people down, that doesn't feel good.
Hand on heart, I want to help everyone, but as the business grows, the demands on the team does too, I'm constantly reminded to stay in my lane and focus on the big tasks I have.
Not having my phone forced me to focus on emails during office hours, to keep a tight rein on my productivity. It has meant people have thought I have dissapeared, but I’ve been offline less than two weeks, it’s important to note, I’ve done a live stream three to four times a week for the last two years.
The second reason, well, it’s not nice. The team, our employees, including our close family, and in some cases, our children, have been targeted by a pretty nasty campaign by an unhappy customer and his friends. I’m sure you guys have seen it on social media or in the comments of articles. Some of the threats were serious enough we needed to file a police report. They requested we took some downtime away from face to face contact whilst an investigation was held. In due course, I’ll return to social media. I miss you guys and will be back when I have a handle on this. I know you guys know me well enough.
Jordan