[Closed] My friend had a problem with his skewer

It really is your mates word against theirs, can't see how you could prove it either way.

Lesson: QR Levers on disc equipped bikes go on the right. If it's not in 'the rules' it bloody should be.

With a full bladder and straight to their shoe display 😉

I normally check all me bits and pieces before I set off, doesn't everyone else?

yeah i guess youd have thought they have just fixed it for him there only cheap suntour forks. just to keep customer happy and to avoid the negative publicity. there going to let him know tommorow forsure what there going to do guess they need to speak to head office or the shop manager or something i dont know hopefully they will sort it for him

lipseal i check my parts before heading out but he brought the bike yesturday morning came out the shop and went straight for a ride hes getting into biking or trying to so he wouldnt have known what to look for and youd expect it tooo come out the shop being all good to ride

Were you with him between collection of bike and ride?...and can say he didn't tamper with the bike?

If so, he has a claim...presumably only to have the bike fixed tho.

Even if not, which is more likely, shop ****ing up, or him messing with it?

Lesson: QR Levers on disc equipped bikes go on the right. If it's not in 'the rules' it bloody should be.

Mine are on the left.

Sounds like a case for accident direct - they will love your mate

Are you sure the QR never got knocked while riding? It can happen you know.

Can't remember the name of the shop .... Oh yes it's just come to me, surosa cycles in Stockport.
Mate (I wasn't with him and new to mtb) picked up his 1k Cube hard tail and everything was loose. Headset, wheels, seat on rails, handlebars. The guy even tried to say the seat was meant to move on the rails with the rider. Anyway he came off it so I had a look at it and found the above. Following day I called them and was furious, spoke to a female owner. I advised i'd sorted it all but thats not the point

To be fair she did advise to ask for her when it came in for it's service. He didn't and got nothing. Personally I would avoid anywhere they employ idiots who puts people's lives at risk rather than tighten a bolt or two

all he wants is for forks and axle to be replaced and the disc can be bent back. i wasnt with him when he brought it he cam out the shop jumped onto the rtrain and i met him the other end. Hes not the type of guy to fiddle with things he has no experience with.

had it happened 2 - 3 weeks after buying the bike the shop might be able to say hang on a minute but buying a bike in the morning and going back with a broken bike in the afternoon youd think they would go out of there way to help.

I think perhaps they dont want to accept responsibility because it looks bad and may make them liable to further legal action or something i dont know hopefully they wil just do it in goodwill

Pursue it with help of CAB/TS if he CBA.

HTH 😉

Had he removed the front wheel to put it in his car when he collected it?

GB

Quite an inflammatory post title. You'd better be damned sure it was their fault, I'd say....

Lipseal i did consider that it may have been knocked when riding but it would have had to have been a big knock in an open space to knock the lever from closed to open and wedging in the disc.

it was infact my inital thought that a branch or somthing may have knocked the lever into the disc but there were no branches around and when i unjammed it the lever was on open and it happend on a corner

hey Gee no he got the train back with it.

And captain flash heart yeah i guess it was but had we been coming down a hill at high speed when this happened it could have been serious!

I know it was their fault and my friend sure does but as already mentioned it really is a case of our word against theirs and looks like its going to be upto their good will as to whether theyll fix it

hopefully they will look after you
But it is down to you as the owner to check your bike over before you ride.
It could have been knocked undone when getting off the train etc etc.
You dont know, but you should have checked it over and excuse me but its pretty obvious if the skewer is open the wheel will wobble and can fall out.
But hey hopefully you can sue and make a load of money out of blaming someone else.

Lesson: QR Levers on disc equipped bikes go on the right. If it's not in 'the rules' it bloody should be.

But they are meant to go on the left. Shimano skewers (and other 'internal cam' types) are actually designed to go on the left, if you put them on the right you have to have them pointing backwards or down to miss the fork leg.

[img] [/img]

But hey hopefully you can sue and make a load of money out of blaming someone else

I didn't see any mention of suing, I think they just want the bike fixed!

That's quite an epic acusation to make on a public forum. Just saying, I wouldn't slander a business that strongly unless you're 100% sure and can back it up.

Presumably he rode it from the shop to the station? How long did he then ride it for during your ride before it caused the crash?

I ask because I would imagine that a QR lever left open would make itself quite apparent within minutes of riding.

Also - and I'm just playing Devils Advocate here - are you CERTAIN your mate didn't tweak around with it in his excitement at having a new bike? On the train perhaps? Maybe he did and doesn't want to feel like a bit of a nob by admitting it.
You have to admit that a store like Hargroves who sell and build thousands of bikes a year are not as likely to make a basic error such as this as your mate who, by your own admission, is a newbie to riding is likely too.

I bet the logos and valves weren't lined up either.
Rider should have checked before riding, a little bit of common sense goes a long way.

I check my own bike period. If something isnt right. Its my fault. Your mate should have checked his own bike. Sounds tough but thats safer than relying on others.

Not surprised they tried to get out of it, the owner is a total prick.

When you buy a new bike or have repairs done you shouldn't have to check the bike over to see if it is roadworthy, that is the job of the shop.

If it was genuinely a shop mistake, good luck in getting them to fess up.

[hijack] Spooky, whats that Spesh CX bike? me likey! [/hijack]

How can the QR lever wedge into the disc?? Even if it's fully open, it's got a range of 180 degrees movement (which means it's hanging vertically downwards) but it'd need to be bent way beyond that for it to catch in the disc - another 30-40 degrees in towards the wheel.

And if the QR is fully open, it's immediately apparent cos the wheel wobbles around (although it won't fall out cos of the tabs on the forks).

Sorry but the story doesn't add up to me. Although your lack of spelling and grammar may be part of the reason for that... Whatever though - nothing has yet been resolved either way, you say above that the shop will get back to your mate tomorrow so posting this now, especially with the title you've used is really not going to do you any favours.

Whats this with slagging off shops before they have a chance to ake amends, and apologise, write to the head office and the manager telling them what happened, and quite posibly the lad who built the bike may be sacked or disciplined, if they believe your story.

But not to worry, youve just slagged off a major cycle retailer on a public forum, and your words may just make people think theyre dodgy, when probably theyre not at fault.Aloose skewer would have shown up a lot sooner i would have thought.

Not surprised they tried to get out of it, the owner is a total prick.

Why is it his fault, a bike shop should know how to put a bike together!

Warton,

It's a Crux Comp Disc Apex (Catchy name!). Think it may be a US version, though, rather than one that's coming in the UK.
Oh, and CrazyLegs - Spot on. Doesn't add up at all.

I think you have the wrong end of the stick, flippinheckler.

Genuine question - are you sure you're not mixing up cause with effect?
Like most people, I run my qr's on the disc side so I've just gone and opened them to see if I could get the lever to open into the disc - they don't.

Perhaps a particular make of q/r might though?

As I said this is a genuine question - it'll also be easy to demonstrate in the shop.

Whats this with slagging off shops before they have a chance to ake amends, and apologise

Its called Internet chat Forums. 😕

This all feels very familiar, wasn't there a very similar post a month or so back?

CFH,warton. that is a US version and spesh. do not have any immediate plans on bringing it to the uk!

I know as i called head office asking if they could order me one (at a price) to which they declined. I will be buying a crux disc frameset when it becomes available in the UK

I will be buying a crux disc frameset when it becomes available in the UK

Me too - Specialized are currently selling off this year's Crux frame at about £600 and while I need a new CX, I want a disc braked one. Can't wait for the new Crux. 🙂

I think you have the wrong end of the stick, flippinheckler

Must be the fathers day vino.

How did anyone manage to wheel the bike about with a quick release so loose it swings?? let alone ride it.

Me too - Specialized are currently selling off this year's Crux frame at about £600 and while I need a new CX, I want a disc braked one. Can't wait for the new Crux.

try £350.. http://www.evanscycles.com/products/specialized/crux-2012-cyclo-cross-frameset-ec023880?query=crux

i do like the 2012 colours [img] [/img]

surosa cycles in Stockport.

Surosa is in Oldham not Stockport.
Never had a prob with them Nigel and mandy the owners alway been ok with me.

Hope your mate get some thing sorted with the bike.

How did anyone manage to wheel the bike about with a quick release so loose it swings?? let alone ride it.

Agreed.

oneoneoneone - I NEED that frame! (in a disc version, though! Love that paint!)

CFH- we can only HOPE!

I'll send Mike S an email, see if he can swing it for us.

QR Levers on disc equipped bikes go on the right. If it's not in 'the rules' it bloody should be.

Make no difference in engineering terms at all

QR levers on RHS = worse than turning bike upside down to fix puncture.

I too am a bit bemused by how it happened.

pics?

The brake on that Specialized isn't fixed on very well is it? Someone had better tell the owner, it might fall off.

oneoneoneone: sorry, I meant reduced FROM £600, I just didn't type that! 😳

QR skewer on RHS can prevent rebound adjusters from falling out.
Not that I do it mind, its just a tip 🙂

Why is it his fault, a bike shop should know how to put a bike together!

They should. Should also be able to service a bike when it goes in and not make it worse than when it went in.

Sounds like bad luck to the OP. can't see how it happened but freak things do happen. Hope one way or another it gets sorted.

I had my bike serviced by the reprobates at Berkshire Bikes a couple of years ago. They made an ass of servicing it, and when I took it out the shop (about 30seconds) the bars spun round when I dropped off a kerb because the stem / steerer bolts were loose. I took it back 1 minute after leaving to complain and got told "I must have loosened them off to make them look bad". Not much you can do unfortunately, I just slate them at every opportunity.

QR Levers on disc equipped bikes go on the right. If it's not in 'the rules' it bloody should be.

Way back when there was that thing about QR wheels ejecting themselves from disc forks (the Annan effect) I did a lot of scientific testing and found that fitting the lever on the left prevented the skewer loosening under vibration.

Anyhow, something doesn't add up here - a bike with a completely loose front QR isn't rideable.

im guessing it was tightened by hand but then the lever not flickd to close, on the road was ok but it wasnt long after we went onto the offroad baths the vibrations would have made it looser causing the accident and damage occur.

Im not here to slag of hargroves they are a well known retailler and i was shocked that they even needed time to think on it as i thought they would have resolved tis immedietly i hope they will tommorow.

I just came on here for a bit of advice like if he did have any rights and what he could do to resolve this not wanting to kick up a fuss or sue anyone just want to be able to go riding with my mate on a safe bike.

Not to fan the flames here but....

Did he get the instruction book with he bike?

It will carefully explain over the first 1-100 pages that Cycling is dangerous and that you should check your bike before doing anything and that if anything happens it will generally not be anybodies fault....

I'm guessing the bike shop like some people on here can't fathom how the QR did what your saying.

Im not here to slag of hargroves

Your first post contradicts this. Any other 'facts' from the OP you've had rethink over?

You'd be amazed how many people think you tighten a QR by turning it rather than by camming it over.

Anybody who jumps on a new bike and rides it without giving it a good check over must be pretty trusting. I certainly wouldn't trust anybody else, shop mechanic or whoever to set my bike up.

A Q/R lever simply can't foul the disc, they don't/can't move that far in.
Got bikes spanning six decades and none can, some Mavic ones only have 90o of movement.
Am I not right?

Though my new Giant wheels caught me out, the Q/R levers aren't standard like we all know. These you do actually tighten by turning, then pull out the spring loaded lever to put it into the position you want.

In 20 years I've never seen a QR come undone. Even if the lever hasn't been torqued closed with enough tension the last part of the cam requires force to undo it. If it was so loose that it could flop open then you would notice the wheel moving in the dropout.

It's not hard to see why the shop wouldn't be falling over themselves to accept responsibility is it?

The story is basically: bloke falls off bike, on inspection after the accident the QR lever is open. This is hours after it left the shop, they don't know if he had the wheel out to put it in the car or whatever.

Probably plenty of us on here have noticed our QRs have loosened while riding for one reason or another, or had a crash and wondered exactly how part A has ended up jammed in part B.

That's not to say who, if anyone, is at fault, but you can see how it's far from black and white from where the shop is standing.

Heres a picture of the bike after it happened -[img] [/img]

Ive never ever experienced anything like this before and it happened to a barnd new bike not even hours out the store, i think it was because the quickrelease wasnt tightened but i guess it could have been something faulty out the factory

[img] [/img]<

i think it was because the quick release wasn't tightened but i guess it could have been [s]something faulty out the factory[/s] my mate fiddling with something he didn't know about

FTFY.
So have you heard back from the shop then? Maybe told them about how you're making these claims on a mountain bike forum?

Yeah think the QR lever is a red herring although working pics would help 😉 Doesn't sound great service by the shop although if you're demanding new forks etc. I could see why they'd be a bit hesitant - although you'd hope the bike was safe to ride I'd still do a few cursory checks myself before riding it. Your thread title isn't likely to get you any further with them either...

click for bigger. looks weird.

[url= https://photos-1.dropbox.com/si/tbd/L17tkToRc8jdSq36jpTCLldcQAOqyTvy76hdAx2N5CY/15434122/1340110800/7e15bee/IMG_0639.JP G" target="_blank">https://photos-1.dropbox.com/si/tbd/L17tkToRc8jdSq36jpTCLldcQAOqyTvy76hdAx2N5CY/15434122/1340110800/7e15bee/IMG_0639.JP G"/> ?size=1024x768[/img][/url]

That picture just makes it look like the wheel has not been put back in right after whatever happened. Can't see any broken drop out, just chipped paint.

Not everyone who buys a bike is a competent mechanic. If you bought a new car would you check every nut and bolt before you drove it? The shop has a duty of care to provide the bike in safe and usable condition, that's the purpose of a pre delivery check. If they've neglected to do this then they are at fault, but your mate will have a tough time proving it, as they would be admitting liability. If their workshop is run correctly they should be able to trace who did the PDC and see the checklist. If the QR was tightened by hand and not cammed over then I think it's possible the wheel could have come out when cornering causing the damage to the dropout which, in turn, could've caused the QR to contact the disc.
ETA Can't see the pics, so judgment reserved.

Crazy legs no i havnt heard from my mate today or hargroves, just from reading comments and people saying that it shouldnt happen even if loose then perhaps its a factory fault weak skewer that bent under pressure.
im trying to figure out what happened exactly so can best aadvise my mate.

[img] [/img]

Hi Sam not sure if "Hargroves nearly killed my friend" but i do think you should be aloud to come on here for advice.

My advice is contact some at Hargroves, manger or someone like that and see if you can sort some thing out. best if you do it with you friend as you know more about bikes than him.

If I manage/work at Hargroves I would fix the bike or offer to pay for half or some, just for the positive publicity.

Never bought anything from Hargrove but this happening wouldn’t put me off.

What would put me off is if I had any issue and they would help me out it.

Sorry SW but if you think a weak skewer that bent is a possibility, you must know diddly-squat about bikes.

globalti- my chain snapped in two places at the same time last year, which i though was impossible but it happened.

But agree its not going to be a weak QR.

Cant see from the pic which bit is broken. Its it broken or scuffed paint?

Its going to be beause it was loose to start with.

If you look at any of the Shimano technical documents for front disc hubs and wheelsets, the orientation of the QR lever is always on the non disc side of the hub. That's how I've always done mine and always will.

globalti- my chain snapped in two places at the same time last year, which i though was impossible but it happened.

That happened to me once. I never worked out why, knocked me out and dislocated my fingers though.

ignoring all the other parts of this post for a moment...

I think it's a bit harsh all of you saying things along the lines of "he/she should have checked the bike before riding, idiot if you trust them etc etc."

Do you guys do the same with cars/electricians/gas boiler repair men as well?

Do you check all the wheel nuts on your car when you pick it up from the garage?

Regardless of *if* the original story is true or not you can't expect normal non-enthusiast cyclists to have the same intimate knowledge of their bikes as your or I, Any mechanic working on a bike in a shop has a responsibility to make sure it leaves in a safe condition.

Even when bikes go in for job X, you would still check stem bolts, QRs, crank bolts etc. as a matter of course and if anything obviously dangerous you alert the owner when they pick it up.

Do you guys do the same with cars

No but I would know if a wheel was loose, the fact it doesn't go in a straight line is a give away.

Can't see much from that picture - are there any other ones?

turns out as he turned the corner the quick release skewer lever swang into the disc and snapped the dropout on the fork bent the disc and skewer.

Which drop out is snapped - the one on the other side to that showing in the picture posted?

No but I would know if a wheel was loose, the fact it doesn't go in a straight line is a give away.

As previously mentioned on this thread, a lot of people don't get that you have to cam-over the skewer, they just spin them to tighten up.
They normally stay tight for a little while, especially on gentle terrain, but throw some bumps and hard breaking in and they unscrew pretty quickly, so it is not always immediately obvious.

And if you were referring to car wheel then again, not always, friend of mine almost lost a wheel on the motorway after having new tyres fitted, and the garage forgetting to tighten the wheelnuts on one wheel properly, but it took about 3-5miles before it went and it was very quick from "whats that rumble?" to "holy fudge, we're weaving all over the shop!" having been totally fine up until that point.

Point is not everyone would notice, you must have seen the type i mena, wobbling along the road with buckled wheel, or massive amounts of play on hub bearings. A lot of the time thats 'normal' to them if they've only ever riddent he same shonky bike.

I remember being totally shocked when I had to explain to a mate once that it was not normal for the back end of his (supermarket special) full sus bike to waggle around sideways like that. pivot was totally ****ed and he just thought it was normal.

You can't credit everyone with the same level of mechanical/bike knowledge as you and the vast majority of people on this forum.

From the photo it looks like a fairly simple case of skewer not done up properly (whether shop or rider is still up for debate), and resulting disc-skewer-interface maglement occuring.

(those cheaper cam skewers DO often open more than 180 degrees, seen it quite a few times where owner has just screwed them to tighten while in the open position...)

Almost looks to me like it wasn't done up in the first place and it's bounced loose. If that IS the case, then either the skewer never worked at all or your mate didn't check it properly.

That skewer is in the open position, and has swung open so far that the end of the lever has poked into the disc and been pulled around in the disc. When the lever then contacted the base of the fork, the continued pressure on the end of the lever pulled the axle out of the dropout.

To me, this looks like a case of 'loose QR', and knowing how well Shimano QRs work, I would have to say that it is likely that this wasn't fastened correctly before riding.

As to whose responsibility that is, ask a lawyer...

Do new bikes not come with warning stickers and stuff all over them?

that picture is weird
the skewer looks to be in the closed position yet the wheel is out of the drop out.
I have to ask if this is as a result of the crash, as opposed to the cause.
its not an easy one to answer
and if your mate locked up the wheel in a corner is it not reasonable to assume that he simply locked the brake.

just asking questions.

[img] [/img]

Do you check all the wheel nuts on your car when you pick it up from the garage?

Yes ALWAYS. And every time I do at least half of them are not torqued correctly.
I do it on the forecourt before I drive anywhere now.

I have never checked them and found them all to be correct. And that's from both Main Dealers and Backstreet Garages over about 20 years.

But I do get your general point.