[Closed] Muscle Recovery: empty legs from commuting

Try drinking chocolate milk as soon as you get home (instead of the squash)

Yeah can bump up the food right after commuting but 10 flat miles isn't that mad your body will get used to it. Ensure tyres are pumped up to their max if its just on the road.

Warm up/stretch first.

I used to live on the side of a valley, and then 5 minutes from the bottom of the track to the center of the village from where the road went to my 6form college.

Even though the ride was only 4 miles long, I used to get very weak/sore legs - worked out that 5 minutes of descending a muddy track followed by 5 minutes of riding/freewheeling down a road to the bottom of the valley made my non-warmed-up legs even colder. AND then going up the other steep side [usually in a rush 'cos I was late] was what was doing my legs in.

I started walking for a minute or two through the village and riding slllooowwwllllyy up that big hil - problem sorted. A little stretching also helped 🙂

Also you may need to apply a little more cream. MTFU cream 😉

Sleep, mine used to get restless and spasms which kept me awake, try and up the magnesium. SIS do a nightime recovery drink called nocte which is high in mag, expensive though. Just eat more spinach and yogurt. Maybe a bit obvious but slowing the pace on a few days will help too.

Edit: Nesquik contains mag

Take it easy for a couple of days - don't try and get a higher average than yesterday every day? It's amazing how dropping your speed by even 1mph reduces the workload on your legs. Once you're recovered, decide on a programme of fast days/recovery days.

I often drink a bottle of chocolate milk within 20 minutes of finishing my commute in if I know I have to cycle home again - I like to think of the sugar going straight into my muscles and preparing them for the ride 8 hours later. I have no real idea if it works like this or it's psychological but I usually feel good on the way home. Difference is, my commute is 50k.

....or MTFU

Pretty similar to my commute, my experience was exactly the same when I went from doing it a few times a week to everyday. For me it was just a matter of my body getting used to it, but I also realised I couldn't spank it full chat [i]every[/i] day if I wanted to do some decent evening/weekend riding as well!

Personally if my legs are starting to feel it I find that a decent stretching/foam rolling routine (AFTER riding) works wonders -better even than time off the bike.

Do not stretch before a ride, especially with tired legs. Only stretch when cooling down.

My commute is ~13 miles each way - as they've ^^^ said, it's basically a case of getting used to it physically, and getting used to it mentally, in that you won't be able to ride it full on, both ways every day. Find out what works best for you food/drink wise and sleep as much as you can (mat. leave accepted...).

Definatly drink sweet milk I useually have a pint of crusha at the most 20mins after getting home. Works wanders.

Cheers.

Try drinking chocolate milk

Hmmm .. milk is out - I've pretty much given up milk (apart from cheese and the odd porridge at the weekend). My nose is considerably better off without it!

Ensure tyres are pumped up to their max if its just on the road

It's mainly tarmacced cycle path - crumbly in places and a bit rougher than road. I run 28mm tyres at 90psi which seems to be a good compromise between rolling resistance and bone-rattling.

don't try and get a higher average than yesterday every day

Mmmm.. yeah I generally aim for 45 minutes or less. I could back off a bit.

For me it was just a matter of my body getting used to it,

Yeah there is plenty of that going on - noticed a few new muscle groups on my legs 😀

FunkyDunc - Member

Do not stretch before a ride, especially with tired legs. Only stretch when cooling down.

Can you explain that a bit more please? I was under the impression that stretching was good and could be done when ever and as often as you like?

Man up - you've been riding your bike more. Of course your legs are going to be a bit more tired.

jairaj, I suspect FunkyDunc means this kind of thing:

http://healthland.time.com/2013/04/08/why-stretching-may-not-help-before-exercise/

jairaj - you don't stretch cold muscles (unless you want to do yourself a nasty!); warm up first, then stretch. So for a commute, ride in THEN stretch.

Graham - oddly, I find that a full on 2-3 minutes of big effort helps my legs if they're feeling "hollow". I don't know if the increased effort helps to clear out the lactic or something, but it definitely helps.

you riding weekends/evenings aswell? 13miles each way here and I couldn't do 5 days a week and extra curricular rides too. Well maybe eventually but reckon it would take quite a while to get used to. I normally do 4 days a week or 3 if I do a big ride at weekend.

Ease the pace right off atleast a couple of days. Maybe try just commuting for a couple months then start adding some short evening weekend rides too and gradually increase them.

Been meaning to start a thread on this, how many miles a day can mere mortals commute and still be able to do a decent ride [i]at a decent pace[/i] at weekend?

mad isn't it? i ride about 12 hours a week. You'd think i'd be bionic, but mostly i'm just very, very tired, all the time. And my stomach is a bottomless, growling pit.

i'm in the commuters-calorie-deficit-death-spiral: i'm too skinny to eat enough food, so i'm always hungry. i can't eat enough to keep up with the ouput - so i'm getting skinnier, so i can't eat enough, so i'm always hungry. i can't eat enough to keep up with the output - so i'm getting skinnier...

(AND very unfit)

zzzzz.

how many miles a day can mere mortals commute and still be able to do a decent ride at a decent pace at weekend?

I don't think it's the number of miles [i][b][u]as such[/b][/i][/u], it's more the lack of recovery time that nobbles regular commuters. 5 days a week commuting, an evening ride and a weekend ride doesn't give much time for the body to recover, and so the training effect of the regular riding is probably lessened (in my completely un-scientific opinion!) as the muscles are being broken down constantly and not given time to properly recover. Maybe 🙂

Interested in this topic as at the moment I'm loving the lack of frost-bitten toes and fingers so want to ride both days at the weekend. Sunday though seems to be abit of a mission with dead/numb legs!

you riding weekends/evenings aswell?

Pfffftt.... did you not read the bit about "maternity leave"? What are these "weekends" and "evenings" you speak of? 😀

Nah, not really doing much riding aside from commuting. No MTBing 🙁 Just the odd road ride and basic transport cycling (e.g. did 30 miles on Saturday to attend a Sustrans work day)

I'm commuting nearly 60 miles a week and have been getting a road ride (45-60 miles) in at the weekend since getting a road bike before Easter. I also tow the little one to nursery on Thursday and Friday (about a mile and leave the trailer outside the nursery) and ease off on Friday if I'm going out on the Saturday. The little one has just about put pay to going off and riding any off road for the time being.

The Monday morning commute can be a bit slow after a decent Sunday ride!

Cheers,
Jamie

Hi Graham

Have you tried goat milk? I had all sorts of congestion problems with cow's milk but once I switched it went away quite quickly and has never returned. This was >5 years ago so it isn't some overnight aberration. Worth a try.

I found the St Helen's semi skimmed the most palatable - no strong flavours and not that much fat. Ironically, the skimmed version made me quite burpy so I went back to the green.

Anyway, it is great in porridge, and I frequently neck a litre when I get home from a ride.

D0NK - Member
Been meaning to start a thread on this, how many miles a day can mere mortals commute and still be able to do a decent ride at a decent pace at weekend?

Well 30 miles a day and then 50 miles on Saturday & Sunday should be doable with a bit of getting used to.

Up until August I was doing 50 miles a day and then 75-100 miles on Sunday with Saturday as rest day. Legs were fine, but I was just tired all the time.

When I first got the road bike I was feeling tired / heavy legged all week but have started to have breakfast (small bowl of granola / OJ) before leaving in the morning then a big chunk of cake for elevenses and I'm much the better for it.

Cheers,
Jamie

You'd think i'd be bionic, but mostly i'm just very, very tired, all the time. And my stomach is a bottomless, growling pit.

Oh yeah - that too - eating all the time!

But then I could do with losing about 2 kilos so that isn't too bad.

Have you tried goat milk?

Hmm.. nope but might give it a go. Not really been missing milk to be honest.

Not been an extensive ban - I just always had a snotty nose so at the suggestion of a mate I stopped having milky cereal in the morning and started taking my coffee black and noticed my sinuses were a lot better for it.

started to have breakfast (small bowl of granola / OJ) before leaving in the morning

Might be a plan - I usually just have an espresso and a pint of squash then when I get to work I have a roll with sausage and egg 🙂

GrahamS - Member
I usually just have an espresso and a pint of squash then when I get to work I have a roll with sausage and egg

Ah there you go.

I have 4 weetabix and 2 slices of wholegrain toast with peanut butter at 6am before I leave, plus 500ml of water.

Then 3 weetabix, a banana and some yoghurt at around 11am as a second breakfast.

+1 for getting used to it, I found the same thing when I started riding every weekend day for my commute. Also eat something with protein in it immediately after each ride, I have a box of Almonds / Pumpkin Seeds and raisins at my desk at work which I munch a bit of every day.

And finally as you get fitter you will find you can ride within yourself more easily and not get so tired, but still go faster than you used to :). And suddenly the weekend rides are more fun as go faster! Result! 🙂

hat are these "weekends" and "evenings" you speak of?

Legs were fine, but I was just tired all the time.

recovery program, for a flattish 10 mile ride, have a word with yourself 😆

Have to say I find the commute more tiring than the raw numbers would suggest. I think it's a combination of the surface and the fact that on the way home you're into the wind four days out of five.

On windy days now I just ease off completely, take the riverside all the way and cruise along. Only takes me 5-10 mins longer than gunning it.

The bits that I find make the biggest difference are the cut past Scotswood Bridge and the Waggonway back from Blayney Row. I think because the surface is better there it's tempting to ride as if you were on road but actually they're rough enough to disrupt your pedalling so you end up pushing harder than you otherwise would.

But then I've only been doing it about 2 months so maybe I need to get used to it too.

recovery program, for a flattish 10 mile ride, have a word with yourself 😆

😀

Yeah I know 110 miles a week is nothing to some on here - but it's more than my body is used to. Just looking for a bit of advice to avoid the feeling of leaden legs that's all.

As woody rightly said, it's not "the number of miles as such, it's more the lack of recovery time". I kinda hoped that my legs would feel strong and powerful with all this riding, but instead them feel empty and heavy.

Thanks lemonysam - yeah the wind and surface are definitely a factor.

The days with a constant 25km/h headwind blowing up the Tyne tend to slow things down a bit!

IME having spent a fortune (well, not really, they're comparably cheep to most foods) on 'suplements' and milk, it's not about the eating, it's about resting. 3-4 weeks is about what it takes to stress the body and force it to adapt. But it needs the time off and energy to do that.

Either comute really slowly 1 week a month, or drive, or do something else. Then go back to hammering it the other 3 weeks. Either plan it, or something will crop up (crap wether, injury, holliday, car needs service/mot, errands build up) and give you a good reason to drive for a few days.

Hardly anyone has mentioned eating the right food before / after the exercise. Even when reducing their weight the Sky team eat carbs to fuel themselves for riding. You aren't helping yourself by not giving your body the right fuel to do this increased work.
If you don't want milk, make some porridge with water and bung some honey on it - you barely notice the difference and it is pretty easy to carry a tub of porridge oats to work and keep a squeezy of honey in the desk drawer. I used to have some toast 30 min before the ride in and some porridge after I had showered at work.

10 miles each way here and 5 days a week 45+ weeks a year it definately takes its toll, tiredness and aches and pains seem to linger

lots of sleep is important
i find choccy milk is good afterwards too 🙂

If ive got a big ride at the weekend I definately take a the tube at least 1 day before

hilldodger short or long bouts of cycling have a similar effects on aspects of the immune system
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20842100

Dumb question, but is chocolate milk all that? Never tried, just wondering whether it's worth a shot.

I do find the week's commute can be a bit slow if I've had a long run at the weekend; as above, the legs just feel 'empty'. And unfortunately, unless I take a day off commuting, they can feel empty all week.

In addition to all the stretching and nutrition advice, you could try some light, higher volume tyres. eg Vittoria Hyper Randonneur 32/35c.

It shouldn't add much in drag, but if it means higher speeds over your bumpy terrain are smoother and are less tiring, it could be a valuable payoff.

lots of sleep is important

I refer the honourable gentleman to the above aforementioned [i]maternity-leave[/i] and [i]small baby[/i] issue 😀

nicko74 - Member
Dumb question, but is chocolate milk all that? Never tried, just wondering whether it's worth a shot.

there have been quite a few scientific studies and choccy milk has consistently been shown to be as good as (or better than) any of the posh recovery drinks

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=chocolate+milk+recovery

Sleep is definitely something I don't do well. I'm a bugger for staying up, even when I'm nodding off on the sofa I'm too lazy to drag myself up the stairs to bed. Drives the missus nuts! 🙂

I shall have to make an effort to to go to bed at a decent time and see if that helps with tired legs.

I refer the honourable gentleman to the above aforementioned maternity-leave and small baby issue

Cheers,
Jamie

nicko74 - Member
Dumb question, but is chocolate milk all that? Never tried, just wondering whether it's worth a shot.

I do find the week's commute can be a bit slow if I've had a long run at the weekend; as above, the legs just feel 'empty'. And unfortunately, unless I take a day off commuting, they can feel empty all week.

Milk is brilliant. You just need to look how much protein there is per 100ml. This is interesting too:
http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/article/the-benefits-of-milk-25698/

Cut back or man up! Going from 2-3 days a week to 5 days every week is some jump.

I have a 35 mile round trip, when I started a year or so ago one way twice a week was enough. I'm now up to 4 days a week (both ways) most weeks but I'm still pretty tired if I do them all back to back. I still have lazy weeks when I might only ride once or twice, this is good and gives me time to recover properly.

And eat/sleep lots (although I doubt the sleep thing is that likely at the moment!).

My own commute is not dissimilar the most direct route is a relatively flat ~13 miles, but i've taken to chucking in some extra climbs and descents using quieter local roads lately, that ups it to 15+ miles each way, 3 days a week (tuesday/Thursday/Friday).

I'm enjoying the doing of the extra miles / work, but since starting this I'm finding recovery, just isn't as rapid as it would have been when I was a bit younger (I'm only 33 though, hardly a Granddad), even with the rest days in between... It's even worse if I put in some additional miles on a weekend on legs that still ache from Friday's commute, or go and exacerbate things with a mid-week, evening ride, trying to keep up with mates who are fresh as a daisy...

I did get to commute 4 out of five days a couple of weeks ago when we off-loaded the kids on my parents for a whole week and that actually felt fine, but I wasn't doing as much climbing, just more flat miles that particular week, climbing has always been my weak point so I've decided to make a concerted effort to work on it using my commutes...

I've never tried a sports massage or one of those foam rollers both of which people I know swear by, do these help with recovery at all? I try to maintain a good amount of fish, eggs and meat in my diet for protein... The shake suggestion seems a good one that I'll look into... could I be missing a few key things from my (generally quite balanced IMO) diet?

I do drink too much caffeine (Coffee & Tea) could cutting that back/out aid recovery at all?

What about replacing salts? I've heard mixed opinions of wheather and how best to do that...

Sleep, mine used to get restless and spasms which kept me awake, try and up the magnesium. SIS do a nightime recovery drink called nocte which is high in mag, expensive though. Just eat more spinach and yogurt. Maybe a bit obvious but slowing the pace on a few days will help too.

Edit: Nesquik contains mag

I recognize that tight legs spasm thing at night, my missus thinks I'm talking bollocks, fidgeting and keeping her awake... Magnesium you say, thanks for that...

I'm another one who has poor sleep patterns, late to bed, early getting up, regularly woken by kids at silly O'clock...

Hmmm, reading through this thread I can see some recurring issues experienced by other, many of which apply to me...

I think I can formulate a bit of an action plan for myself, and it's not so much about reducing mileage or intensity, it's about diet, rest and warm down in between...
If I'm going to increase the level of stress on my tubby physique I need to provide it the right means and appropriate rest time to recover for the next onslaught...

Useful thread cheers OP for starting it.

Right so sounds like the best options so far are sleep and milk - neither of which are practical for me at the moment.

Bugger. 😀

Rule #5 it is then.

What about a recovery drink of some sort that is not milk based. I think Infinit and Torq do somewhich are less milk like...

How about some protein shakes made up with water instead of milk? Dymatize elite gourmet in chocolate peanut butter flavour is amazing and only 130 calories a scoop!

Why have you gone straight to another liquid? Milk is good, but you seem hard over on not providing proper nutrition for yourself. Milk has a good mix for recovery, but if you don't get the right fuel in first you're double knackered.
Any particular reason for that?

You just need to MTFU 😀

My commute is currently 18 miles each way, 6 days a week. On a Sunday I tend to take the long way in (about 50 miles) And generally on my day off I'm usually doing 4+ hours on the mtb or similar. Plus another evening ride or 2 on the mtb.

Proper nutrition and recovery is the key!

interesting reading as this summer Ive started a 18mile each way commute, mine is complicated not by kids but by working shifts. My earlies start at 6.30 so I'm leaving the house at 5.00 in order to travel, shower and change and build in slack for mechanicals, and shift work plays havoc with proper sleep patterns. My other problem is simply not eating and drinking enough (ie still consuming the same as I did prior to commuting), I'm eating my lunch at 10.30-11.00 (reckon I need the second breakfast others have mentioned).

By habit I initially just hammered it each way every day, but realising I was getting more and more tired and legs were getting weaker now (and especially if Ive done loads of riding on days off work) I try to do a couple of rides to work as recovery rides and consciously make an effort to pootle.

Proper nutrition and recovery is the key!

so, basically, this for me (and I havent achieved it yet).

Just finished a 10k trail run and I'll be supping choccie milk..
I'm not a huge fan of milk in general, it has to be super cold and fresh, but it seems to work on me.

On my long distance roadie rides (140+k's) I eat bananas, raisins, cashew nuts and the normal gels/bars combo but do keep drinking and eating. I find eating straight after riding helps, be it cold pasta (prepared pre ride or previous day) and hard boiled eggs helps me recover and fill me with stodgy food rather than scoffing the flapjack I make.

Sleep, I sometimes use those Night Nurse pills a cold shower to cool my body temp down, open the window to let cool air in, close the blinds to keep light out. I do sometimes use both earplugs and eye blankets....

HTH

Vary intensity/speed of your rides,
if you are tired, take an hour not 45 mins

Heart rate monitors are very good for this,
I know if I keep below 150 (Zone 2) I can keep going a long time and not get too tired, but it can be hard to stay this low going up hills.
150-168 (Zone 3) will start to require recovery, especially if I do 45 mins twice a day at that intensity.
168-180 (Zone 4) It is hard to keep this intensity up for 45 mins, but any time in this zone will significantly add to recovery time
180-193 will slow me down for the rest of the ride and takes days to recover from. It is reserved for Strava segments.

Heart rates are personal, so you would need to work yours out.

chocolate milk does help, if you don't like milk try Peanut butter on toast! or anything with carbs and protein.

The little one/s will sleep better soon - says the man lying on the floor waiting for the over tired 3yr old to go to sleep 🙂

The little one/s will sleep better soon - says the man lying on the floor waiting for the over tired 3yr old to go to sleep

LOL. Funnily enough I'm reading these posts on my phone while doing exactly the same thing as you, whilst the missus deals with the screaming (possibly possessed?) baby! 😀

The best advice I can come up with, being a father of three and a commuter by bike or by running for much of their childhood is to ease up on most of your days.

Aim to work on your style and souplesse rather than get there and get home as quick as possible; gentle spinning, smoothness, still upper body, 100+ cadence, be the bike kind of thing. Stop any kind of commuter racing too; you are a gentleman attending his place of employment, not a callow youth rushing headlong into the maw of the marketplace.

I did it for years, and I found it gave me an endurance, a strength that I still have, but you can't race everyday.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/jul/14/tour-de-france-team-sky-dietician

"British Cycling's use of fish oils has been mentioned before – under Mitchell the riders take two grams of high quality fish oil a day. The oil contains a fatty acid (icosapentaenoic acid) that lowers inflammation, reduces muscle breakdown when the muscles are stressed through exercise and improves protein synthesis. "It was something I brought from the NHS, where I was in cancer care, and we used it to help patients keep muscle tone," Mitchell says."

Food at about 15:00 in:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0387sjy

Pah, Rule 5 and get on with it man.

Have a protein shake as soon as you finish riding, then another one before bed. Having been converted to them by my coach, my recovery is amazing at the moment despite training up to 18hours a week (plus full time job). I can tolerate whey protein ok despite having some gluten/lactose intolerance so you should be ok with it.

Stretch after your ride, foam roller and elevate your legs ie up the wall also works a treat. Compression tights a big help too but seems overkill for a commute. Lack of sleep is prob your biggest factor.

Seriously, he's riding 20 flat miles a day. It's not exactly into the realms of proper training

Eat more. If baby wakes you in the night, scarf down a snack whilst you're sorting it.

I do a nice easy 6 miles each way as a mix of towpath and urban with some brief sharp climbs and descents, bit of cheeky kerb hopping and an overall less favourable gradient returning. Generally under 20 minutes, up to five minutes faster when all is good and I'm riding it as linked sprints rather than JRA.

CX bike with 32's is my current ideal for this. While I used to do it on a 26er the odd occasions I do now it feels unbelievably slow and draggy - but isn't really.

My first few weeks of this over early winter year before last were hell but a combo of fitness and crap gear were mostly responsible. These days I don't notice it unless I've really overdone the fun riding or just not slept.

Eat sensibly with plenty of fruit and decent protein rather than just focussing on carbs and you should be fine after maybe the first couple of weeks.

Personally I can't cope with breakfast immediately before riding so I prioritise a decent muesli as soon as I get to work.

Apart from that I try to enforce day a week (usually Saturday) as a bike free zone. If I know I'm riding all weekend I might drive one day.

Evening riding is mostly blocked by other responsibilities, and weekend riding might be anything from a few hours thrashing around trails in the woods to a big triple figure road day.

The most important thing is to remember its meant to be *fun* so it's fine not to chase your PB every time - to this end I've pretty much given up on Strava completely. My wris****ch and memory are just fine for me...

Stop any kind of commuter racing too

This is possibly my worst habit. I just can't help myself some days... but I enjoy it so much...

Pah, Rule 5 and get on with it man.

I did say in the OP: "So Rule #5 or should I be doing something to help them recover between rides?"

I'm happy enough if the answer is just Rule #5, but the suggestions of more sleep, more protein, day off, etc are the kind of things I was looking for.

The most important thing is to remember its meant to be *fun* so it's fine not to chase your PB every time

Yeah... fairly guilty of that. I have Endomondo running so I can see where I am against my PB. Even if I'm taking it a bit easier I always ride it hard enough to get a decent sweat on. So the advice to take it easier on some days may be a good plan.

Sports physio I use recommends using ice on your legs after a ride. Tried it a few times and it does seem to have a good effect.

I think a lot of the advice here is overcomplicating things. You just admitted you are not eating a proper breakfast. I think that is a big part of your problem straight away, and if you don't eat breakfast, I wonder if the rest of your diet is adequate?
I would make sure you are eating enough of the right food at the right time before worrying about chocolate milk and protein shakes.
11 miles each way is a good commute, but unless you are riding at your limit every time you do it, it shouldn't really be enough to break your body down to the point where you are having to use special recovery techniques. A good balanced diet should see you fine.
Don't underestimate the cumulative effects of looking after a baby, however. Chocolate milk isn't going to fix that though; all you can do is try and catch up on your sleep deficit when you get a chance.