[Closed] Mullet/MX bike - who's ridden one?

Don't a lot of trail type motorcycles run bigger front wheels, I know my old xl500 had 23" front & 18" rear so there might be something in it 🤔

I’ve been riding Singular Hummingbirds for years and before that various others (Trek and Carver 69ers plus homebrewed stuff).
Obviously I like the concept...

Specialized Status for about 6 months.
At 5'9" I think it works well for me.
I ride in Aberdeenshire where the trails are mostly fireroad up and enduro type trails going down.
It's probably a little too slack and low for these trails, even in its high setting and the back end really can't keep up with the front, I've improved this slightly by getting rid of the boat anchor NX cassette and reducing the size of the spacer in the shock.
I'm not the greatest rider, but this thing has me manualing out of corners and actually jumping stuff.
I'd definitely by another that was maybe a little less like a park bike and a little more refined.

2.4 29er on the front and 2.4 27.5 on the back has worked well for me on a Ritchey p29er and Jones Diamond for a couple of years. Occasionally with a Chronicle on the front. Mainly trails with the odd bit of twisty singletrack though the woods. Always rode rigid 29ers and this feels like the set up with the best balance for climbing, rolling over stuff and handling.

Hairyscary (Matt?) - saying you're not the greatest rider is being a little humble! From what I remember you're definitely good. Always needed a burly bike to cope with your full on style.

I just wish someone would build a better value version of an Orange Switch, but with a water bottle cage ability and maybe a pair of little tool roll attachment bosses. Inevitably means Taiwan, but that's fine. Single pivot for easy maintenance and year round mud bombing in a mullet style that seems to offer an excellent fun bike for messing in the woods. But not extreme with the geo - Goldilocks please, nice and balanced, 150mm front and rear.

Starling do a mullet bike, they take a water bottle on the underside of the TT, I believe.

I've owned a couple of mullet-ed bikes myself - one homebrew FS bike and another HT with B-plus rear sometimes. Both were a lot of fun, amazing at cornering, slightly slower on the flat. Best for "winch & pummet" riding IYKWIM.

I would consider one if starting from scratch, but I have too many 29in wheels & tyres now. And I really like full 29in as well, especially the ground-covering ability.

My write-ups...
http://unduro.co.uk/mtb/behold-the-frankenthumper-aka-project-279/
http://unduro.co.uk/mtb/review-cotic-solarismax-mk-2-a-hardtail-for-all-occasions/

Starling Twist - meets most of that criteria.

I've not ridden a Twist, but I ride a Murmur and my GF rides a Swoop. They are amazing bikes! I can only guess a Twist would also be awesome.

Geometron G1, mine is currently in hybrid/mullet/mx mode.

Bike corners better, it's easier to turn in if you are late on the brakes, with full 29 the bike will stand up in the corner if you brake, with hybrid it's less.

For straight line bombing and all day xc, will be full 29 for me. So FOD/Shropshire will be hybrid, then peaks would be full 29, find the 29 climbs a bit better as well.

Starling Twist would be wonderful, but budget won't reach that far hence requirement for Taiwanese built, good value frame.

Might just have to do this myself in a Pinkbike Grim Donut way.

Bike corners better, it’s easier to turn in if you are late on the brakes, with full 29 the bike will stand up in the corner if you brake, with hybrid it’s less.

That's exactly what I said about 29er's in general in the other thread. Glad it's not just me.

Haven't ridden a mullet yet. Mostly because the price of decent forks makes me physically sick.

I ran a 69er Ibis Tranny - lightweight & rigid front end. Great for milemunching and events like HONC 10 years ago. Rear wheel span up quickly, front rolled over stuff etc.

Now use a gravel bike for milemunching, and a full 29er for singletrack

That would be a pretty good cue not to brake mid corner wouldn't it?

Banshee titan for me. I was on a Bird Aeris, but I tried 29 on a hardtail and that sold me on having it up front. At 5"7 I'm bordeline for 29ers on steep trails and I buzzed myself a couple of times on the hardtail and that did it for me. Considered a Last Coal/Glen, the Starling Twist, Geometron and a few other bikes as well, but I wanted the Banshee ever since they showed pictures and it has adjustable dropouts and room for a bottle cage.

Enjoying the bike so far, but it's quite a different geometry philosophy from the bird so it's going to take some getting used to. I live in south wales and most of my riding consists of plodding along up fireroads and the like to ride down something steep.

I want to mullet my hardtail, can’t work out exactly what difference it will make to the geometry though.
Been hovering over a mullet linkage for my commencal that enable you to run mullet but keeps the stock geometry

I want to mullet my hardtail, can’t work out exactly what difference it will make to the geometry though.

If you are starting with a 650 bike, you will need to go quite a bit shorter on fork travel to maintain the BB height.

If starting with a 29 bike, you will find the BB can get pretty low, as the bb drop on a 29 hardtail is usually a fair amount to start with (my cout 290 was 60mm from memory).

The titan looks nice. If I read it right it comes with the 4 types of dropout (142/148 in both compact and long)? Having the ability to use existing kit is really nice (I have a load of nice 650b kit that Id rather not replace immediately as it's nowhere near worn). Same with the G1 (though looks like the mutators are extra).

"If I read it right it comes with the 4 types of dropout (142/148 in both compact and long)?"

That would surprise me because the dropouts are quite expensive forged pieces. My previous Spitfires both came with only one set of dropouts but I bought some shorter ones to try different chainstay lengths.

However, you don't need different dropouts to mullet a Banshee. A 29" Banshee can be mulleted by using a 27.5" rear wheel and putting the dropouts in the high position - that change in axle height almost completely cancels out the 19mm reduction in wheel radius, giving a mullet geometry in high within a few mm BB height and less than 1/4 deg angle-wise vs a full 29 in low.

The standard dropouts on the 29" Banshees are the short ones - the long dropouts are to fit 29+ or have v long chainstay lengths on 29". The 27.5" Banshees have the long dropouts as standard to ft 27.5 but you can go to the short ones for 26" rear wheels (mini mullet?)

My hardtail frame a high bb, think it’s 30mm drop. It’s a Marino so I think I landed on 30mm as that was in the middle so if I ran a smaller back wheel it wouldn’t be too low to the ground. It might be 40mm at sag maybe. I’m guessing a smaller back wheel would make the bb drop slightly less? More worried about losing the seat angle than anything! My seat is slammed forward already and the front end can get wandery climbing

If I read it right it comes with the 4 types of dropout (142/148 in both compact and long)?

No, you just get a choice of one set.

"(Frameset includes, Fox Float X2 Performance shock, pre-installed headset and choice of dropouts)".

"I’m guessing a smaller back wheel would make the bb drop slightly less? More worried about losing the seat angle than anything! My seat is slammed forward already and the front end can get wandery climbing"

If you put a 27.5 wheel on a 29 bike, with the same profile tyre, you drop the rear axle 19mm which drops the BB about 13mm / 0.5". And it'll slacken the angles by about a degree. So yes, more wandery climbing!

My seat is slammed forward already and the front end can get wandery climbing

Hold onto the bars properly then!

My Merida while is mullet. 29x2.6 front, 27.5x 2.8 rear. It works fine for me although I have nothing to compare it with.

2019 Stumpjumper Evo 27.5" S3 mulleted and longshocked here.

Cascade link and long shock gives 167mm rear travel, 160mm 29" Mezzer Pro up front.

BB height now 342 rather than the stupid 324 of stock. HA 62°, saddle slammed forward to give effective SA of 78°, reach calculated at 480mm.

Absolutely brilliant. So fast, sets up nicer into turns once you know how to muscle it into a turn, then tends to oversteer rather than understeer, but 2.6" WTB Trail Boss out back helps with that.

The bike is way more rideable than in original form 🤘🤘🤘

Not ridden one but would be interested to try it. I have a Last Glen which they make an MX link for to correct the geometry for 27.5 rear.

Pretty sure you can buy the Mk2 Glen as an mullet from the factory.

Riding two up down the downs on a Raleigh Grifter with a Puch 50 moped fork bar front wheel and brake.

Just building up a mullet/hybrid wheelset for my Geometron G15 to give it a try. Along with a 7mm longer shock, I've calculated the geometry should be preserved to within about 0.2deg and about 2mm of BB height. The longer stroke shock will of course sag more, but it's a coil so will be set for about 25% sage as opposed to 30% of the shorter stroke air shock to preserve climbing position. If it's too slack, I can always fit an offset shock bush the wrong way round to steepen the angles slightly.

The main theory around the mullet/hybrid setup seems to be that the slightly smaller rear wheel with its tighter radius and smaller contact patch, will increase the turn in speed of the bike in corners, without compromising the positive stability effects brought about by long wheelbases, slack head angles and shorter offset forks. Obviously you lose out a little in terms of rolling speed, but the benefits are probably of more concern to those riding steeper and techier terrain on a regular basis for whom rolling speed is probably a lesser concern... Either way, I plan to have 2 distcint setups to choose from, based upon what I'm doing. Longer days out in the saddle, a faster rolling 29x2.35" tyre in the back with the 215x63 Float X2 giving 145mm. Ride spent sessioning steeper and techier trails, then a more aggressive 27.5x2.4" tyre and a 222x70 coil shock giving about 163mm travel (fork will remain constant at 160mm between both setups) can be fitted in moments.

I ride FoD singletrack, so the MX set up makes more sense than if I was doing moorland hacks.

I run my Evil Calling as a mullet. I dropped the fork travel from 150 to 140mm and the BB height has only gone up a tiny bit (around 4mm). By leaving it in the extra low position the change is actually less than keeping the wheel size the same and swapping it to the low position. Normal x-low is 330mm, with the mullet in x-low it's 334 and normal low is 338mm.

The head angle has reduced to around 63.5° from 65.5°. Seat angle is around 76° measured from centre of the BB to the centre of the seat, which is run forward on the rails. If I wanted it to be more forward I could turn my seatpost round. I don't tend to worry about seat angle as there's so much opportunity to tune it at the saddle.

It rides really well, playful but capable. I like having a bigger front wheel for thundering over stuff but with the lively feel of a smaller rear wheel.

My suspicion is that this works better turning a very low 27.5" bike into a mullet, rather than a 29er into one. It's just like over forking a bike.

I'd just look for a very low frame Rickos, it'd be perfect for how and where you ride.

“ My suspicion is that this works better turning a very low 27.5″ bike into a mullet, rather than a 29er into one. It’s just like over forking a bike.”

I’ve spent a while looking into the numbers on this, and mulleting does work best with either v low 27.5 bikes that normally have more fork than rear travel, or with higher 29 bikes, especially ones that have some kind of flipchip to raise/steepen them. And they all need steep seat tube angles.

I’ve done a lot of back to back riding, same bike with different wheels. I found it very interesting. In tight corners the mullet was noticeable better, also pumping it accelerated better. No surprises I guess. A big advantage with long dropper is that bit of extra space in the back for sudden gradient changes. It’s generally more playful but loses out a bit at high speed. I’d be careful with frame geometry, on mine the geometry stayed the same. Nowadays bikes are low/slack so just sticking a 27 in the back wouldn’t be my choice. Similarly bigger wheel in the front. I liked trying it without changing geometry at all. If I had a bike that was a bit older maybe and higher / steeper, if could be a great option assuming you don’t end up with too slack a seat tube.

How much does it affect climbing? And If it's a mullet designed bike rather than a mulleted bike I imagine that makes a difference? Cheers

Munrobiker's findings very much tally with mine.

I spend (well not at the moment obviously!) riding steep, off piste so mullet works well for me with a 29" inseam but long torso/arms.

There's quite a few 2019 Stumpy Evo frames going second hand at the moment, 27.5" is what you want and coincidentally they're the cheaper ones. Run a 2.6" out back, a 2.5" aggressive front like a Magic Mary/WTB Verdict, 160mm 29" fork and you'll be golden.

What bike did you convert, Doug?

Luke - I was thinking starting with a 29er might be better, but you present a good argument.

I previously mulleted a 2016 Specialized Enduro which starts out tall and steep. Adding one offset bush and the 27.5 wheel made it quite contemporary in BB height and head angle, but obviously the seat angle suffered. I have long legs and short body, so stuffed the saddle forward and it was OK.

I have mulleted my Vitus esommet used to have 170mm travel up front now 160mm 29er fork, I enjoy the bike loads & climbing not too hindered being an ebike 😂

Somebody who knows how to code needs to make a mullet geometry calculator and stick it online. I can do the geometry but not the coding!

Kind of wish I'd bought a set of those cheap Dr Swiss forks from wiggle now. From the suggestions above sounds like my pre longshot rocket might work ( https://www.cotic.co.uk/product/rocket275). It's an XL but I'm on the l/XL boundary. Can run 170mm 27.5 forks so 150mm 29er would be in a similar size range. Maybe with a slacker to slightly lengthen, relax the head angle, slightly drop the BB and steepen the seat angle.

My suspicion is that this works better turning a very low 27.5″ bike into a mullet, rather than a 29er into one. It’s just like over forking a bike.

The opposite is actually true...

Why? Well, when you fit a 27.5" rear wheel into a 29er bike with no other changes, you drop the rear axle by 19mm (ergo typically the BB height by arouns 12-13mm), slackening the angles by approximately 0.75 of a degree thereabouts, depending on the bikes wheelbase.

When you fit a 29er front end to a 27.5" bike, if you keep the fork travel the same, you are raising the front end by 38mm... How? Well the larger wheel raises the axle by 19mm, but the 19mm longer A2C fork (required to accommodate the larger wheel) also raises the front end height too. If you do nothing else, keep the same fork travel on your new 29er front ended 27.5" bike, then you've slackened the angles by approximately 1.5deg and probably raised the BB by around 15mm.

A 29er with some kind of geometry adjust is easily the best bike to mullet. The 2 different shock positions on my Geometron G15 meant even if I didn't mess about with a different length shock or offset bushes etc. that even just putting the 27.5 rear wheel in and changing the shock position from low to high, I would only drop my BB height about 3mm and slacken my angles about 0.2deg... With a single offset shock bush fitted the wrong way round, I could achieve identical geometry when compared with a 29er rear wheel with the shock fitted in the low position. Newer Geometrons (the G1) are designed purposefully to be able to mess around with the geometry, and have adjustable chainstay and seatstay lengths via "mutators" purposefully to be able to mess about with the geometry and wheel sizes.

I'd really only consider it on a 27.5" bike if the bike already had a crazy low BB (330mm isn't crazy low to be honest), a super steep seat angle (76deg isn't super steep!), and the fork travel was already 20mm more than the rear wheel travel, so at least you could fit a 20mm shorter travel fork and it still feel balanced along with the 29er front wheel, without upsetting the geometry too much.

Can we start a list of suitable bikes? Flip chips, very low BB 27.5 bikes, etc? I’ll start -

2016 - 2018(?) Specialized Enduro 29 - compromise is slacker seat angle
2020 Evil Calling - seemingly few compromises but does end up slack in head angle.
Various Geometron models - made for messing about with geo.

Trek Slash might be alright, but the actual (rather than effective) seat angle is very slack, so dropping in a smaller wheel would only exacerbate the problem.

Add more and I’ll do a summary post now and then to bring it all together. Pros and cons of mullet version would be useful.

2020 Evil Calling – seemingly few compromises but does end up slack in head angle.

Less worried about the slack head angle, more worried about the fact the claimed seat angle of 74.8deg is already optimistic for most people cos of it being "virtual" rather than actual (interrupted seat tube), and once you've slackened it by 1.5deg by mulleting it, you're down around 72-72.5deg seat angle more than likely. Which is slack!

Evil Offering a far better bike to mullet... I've had one as a pure 29er, setup in the slack X-Low mode it had a 75.5deg effective seat angle (measured properly) at my saddle height with a 150mm fork. Drop in a 27.5" rear wheel, that drops to about 74.7deg, but you then run it in the Low setting rather than X-Low and you get about 0.6deg back from the geometry adjust. In fact, you could run a 2mm offset shock bushing in the eyeletted end of the shock (but the wrong way round), to get the geometry back to 75.5deg with a 27.5 rear wheel fitted I'm sure. The thing is, I found my Offering a very agile bike as a 29er anyway, it never really felt like it needed more agility to me. My mate ran his mullet for a while, with the linkage in Low, and it worked quite well for him and was imperceptibly slacker than normal.

There's a number of Cascade Components Mullet links for various bikes now, would be worth considering...

Cheers, mboy. Didn’t realise Cascade were doing mullet links too.

I'll reiterate 2019 Stumpjumper EVO 27.5 as prime for mulleting. Even more so with the Cascade link to make it more progressive.

I have a Banshee Titan, tempted to try it in mullet. Thing is I already have a coil shock and a zeb, how will I live with being so koolaid drinky...? “Ooooh is that a mullet” and so on...?

I mullet a trek slash, high setting with 27.5 x 2.4 wt minion vs low setting 29 x 2.4 wt minion. Lose about 10mm bb height, maybe half a degree slacker head angle (by phone app) with mullet. Haven’t measured the seat angle but its the alu version which is steeper than carbon. Can ride it in either set-up anywhere and wouldn’t complain if it was fixed, but having the flexibility to change is a bonus to an already great bike.

Just been looking at a few off the shelf frames that would potentially be ideal for mulleting starting with a 27.5" frame (harder than just fitting a 27.5" rear wheel in a 29er)... The one that stands out so far...

Yeti SB140...

It has a 77deg Seat angle, is designed around a 160mm fork, has a 210x55mm shock delivering 140mm of travel. Fitting a 29er fork and wheel, but dropping to 140mm travel on the front would only slacken the angles by about 0.8deg which would be manageable, and the BB height wouldn't suffer too much either. Or maybe could drop to 130mm travel 29er fork, and put a 5mm spacer in the shock to reduce rear travel to 127mm... You'd end up with a 127R/130F travel trail bike, 64.6HA and 76.6SA, static BB height of about 343mm, and it would almost certainly be a hell of a lot of fun!

Banshee Spitfire probably wouldn't be too bad a shout either... 130mm 29er fork up front, 5mm reducer in the shock to reduce rear travel to about 123mm (or even just a 2.5mm to recue it to 128mm), and the adjustable stay position would help with geometry adjust too.

Basically, if you're coming from a point of view of converting a 27.5" bike to a 29er front, you want one that was designed with "reverse mullet" travel specs... That is to say, a bike that was designed to be massively over forked from the factory.

Any of the current range of bikes from Last can be run as a mullet so can be added to the list;

Glen (145mm travel)
Coal (160mm travel)
Tarvo (160mm standard, MX link adds 10mm travel)

Last use an 'mx' link to even out the geometry.

@richwales - are you on a 2021 Slash ?

It’s 2019 model - think that’s the same as 2020? Before they added the storage compartment.

Thanks, got a 2021 on order so going to try it out on this...

“ you could run a 2mm offset shock bushing in the eyeletted end of the shock (but the wrong way round)”

Would that work or would the offset bushing gradually work itself around to the shortest i2i length, moving each time you hit a big bump or bottom out?

Would that work or would the offset bushing gradually work itself around to the shortest i2i length, moving each time you hit a big bump or bottom out?

It works fine, had to do it before and it was fine. I guess if you didn't do the shock bolts up to spec, it might work itself round over time, but torque those bolts up properly and it's going nowhere.

Just remembered that the Whyte S-120 and T-140 models share the same frame... The T-140 uses a deep lower headset cup to take into account for the smaller wheel, which is easy to swap for a regular headset cup I guess.

“ Just remembered that the Whyte S-120 and T-140 models share the same frame… The T-140 uses a deep lower headset cup to take into account for the smaller wheel...”

That’s like the most recent Liteville 301, which is designed to handle 29 or 27.5 on the same frame. And those first Stumpjumper 27.5 had that too but with very bodged geometry...

I have been tempted to try it on my Banshee Phantom for a while as I can adjust the dropouts.

Going to have a 140mm fork on it soon, but I've got the drop outs in the low position.

I'm thinking 27.5 rear, 140mm fork then shifting the drop out to the neutral position to get a bit of BB height and seat angle back.

There's nothing at all wrong with it being 29er, it's just curiosity as I've never really had a bike designed for (or close to) it before.

I had an offering, tried the "low" setting with 27.5 rear, 140mm pike.

Benefits -
Tipped into turns more easily

Drawbacks -
Everything else.

BB was too low.
SA started out on the cusp of slack ended up too slack.
Backend felt like it was hanging up.

I didn't get any agility benefits.

Do I still want to try a mullet again? Yes.

I still feel there has to be benefits with agility and turning, just needs the geo to match it. Only thing that puts me off is feeling of backend getting hung up, but that might have been because my front triangle was dodgy a rattled like a mofo you could feel through your feet.

I've been casually looking at this for a couple of weeks -
https://www.mulletcycles.com/product/the-peacemaker/

Looks are an acquired taste, but $2,000 including a shock is decent money. Shame they don't give you much on geometry saying that's like their Coca-Cola/KFC recipe. What a load of balls!

I’ve been casually looking at this for a couple of weeks –
https://www.mulletcycles.com/product/the-peacemaker/
Looks are an acquired taste, but $2,000 including a shock is decent money. Shame they don’t give you much on geometry saying that’s like their Coca-Cola/KFC recipe. What a load of balls!

I like the look actually. But then I do like oranges too.

Website/general aesthetic is a bit Sick! bikes though, which worries me.
Along with 1 hardtail for sale, half a dozen other models "coming soon".

Probably unfair, as a small new company from colorado has probably no idea who sick! are/were.

Found a good candidate this evening. Current version of the YT Jeffsy 29. It’s got a flip chip, steepish seat angle, highish BB height. I can live with a small water bottle.

Rare as hens teeth though at the moment, even 2nd hand.

Website/general aesthetic is a bit Sick! bikes though, which worries me.
Along with 1 hardtail for sale, half a dozen other models “coming soon”.

The moment I clicked on that link my immediate thought was "oh great, another Sick!"... And then there's loads of nonexistent links to upcoming models, and the only existing model is entirely lacking in any kind of detail, especially geometry... WALK AWAY!!! FAST!!!

Found a good candidate this evening. Current version of the YT Jeffsy 29. It’s got a flip chip, steepish seat angle, highish BB height

My friend mulleted her 29er Jeffsy, she said it improved the bike no end! She wasn't happy or confident on it as a 29er, with a 27.5" rear wheel but in the steeper setting she reckons it's loads better... Stock seat angle is reasonably steep too which helps, as the 27.5" rear slackens it about another 0.4deg even over the 29er even taking into account using the high setting instead of the low.

I'm sold!

Seeing a big old wheel sticking out the front is hugely confidence inspiring in steep rough dh sections. This in on a 2021 kenevo. I will be keeping it in this configuration.
I would not buy a new bike now that wasn't available with a mullet/mx setup.

"I’m sold!"

This is as high quality science as when Giant told us that 27.5 was the best of all worlds...

This is as high quality science as when Giant told us that 27.5 was the best of all worlds…

I've got a feeling some of those graphs are Giant's.

The one interesting bit is the cornering/turn in radius of the smaller back wheel which they mention briefly and then dont really explain...

I've spent all these years going over my handlebars for nothing on my stupid symmetrical wheel sizes.

“ The one interesting bit is the cornering/turn in radius of the smaller back wheel which they mention briefly and then dont really explain…”

There is actually a bit of truth in all their claims - it’s just the presentation turns them into hyperbole.

Regarding the lean angle and cornering radius, it’s to do with the reduced circumference of the tyre as you move onto the shoulder vs the crown of the tread. The bigger the wheel, the smaller the percentage change in circumference across the tread for a given tyre profile.

I think this is why a narrower and less square rear tyre also feels good to me - it wants to turn inside the front’s arc.

“ I’ve spent all these years going over my handlebars for nothing on my stupid symmetrical wheel sizes.”

Having inspected these accurate diagrams I’m sorry to tell you it’s not a wheel size issue which can be easily solved by swapping your rear rim and tyre. You actually need elevated chainstays and a dropped top tube, so a whole new frame.

Thought I’d bring this thread back from the dead after having a bit of fun yesterday. Behold the mulleted G160

Managed to get a really good mix of trails in on it yesterday, and struggling to find a situation that didn’t seem a bit better. The fork wasn’t ideal (older dual position Lyrik RC with a 51mm offset) but even then the front end felt really good, I think a 44 offset would calm the steering a bit further though

Head angle is hovering between 63 and 64 degrees
BB drop should be around 34mm from the front axle

The fork is a loaner so mine will be going back on shortly, definitely giving me food for thought though