[Closed] MTB Hooligan Culture

Dig it yourself ride it how you like?

Dig it yourself ride it how you like?

regardless of its impact on the environment? I`m pretty sure even digging your own trails was frowned upon back in the day. If it wasn't an existing bridleway or trail centre, you didn't ride it, and you certainly didn't go digging your own trails. Did you?

 If it wasn’t an existing bridleway or trail centre, you didn’t ride it, and you certainly didn’t go digging your own trails. Did you?

Plenty did, lots of lines all over woods etc. it's where all the DH tracks came from and heaps of other stuff, I remember riding hand built singletrack back in the early '00 or do we need to go back to the 90's or earlier for your back int day? All over the world people were building stuff - have you seen the early new world disorder vids?

regardless of its impact on the environment? I`m pretty sure even digging your own trails was frowned upon back in the day. If it wasn’t an existing bridleway or trail centre, you didn’t ride it, and you certainly didn’t go digging your own trails. Did you?

I haven't had the chance to see it yet, but are talking about slashing and burning hectares of ancient rain forest to build some shady berms, or do we need a disclaimer to say "No soil was hurt in the making of this shreadit"?

There's always going to be an anti-social element in any sport who don't give a F about anything else other than their own enjoyment.

Whether they grow out of it or not is another thing.

I always think that you should leave things the way you'd like to find them - or hopefully, better..

Pick up some trash, be a bit of a trail fairy - you know the stuff that doesn't break the first rule of life i.e. don't be a dick.

#trashfreetrails

We used to say skids are for kids, now they call it schralping and they're all at it. Bunch of bloody children! 😉

When you look at a country swathed in tarmac and concrete with mountains of plastic garbage, then mountain bikers and other outdoor enthusiast would be the least of my concerns.

The damage done by mountain bikers, even hooligan ones, is infinitely insignificant compared to the damage of normal everyday life.

Bitd I struggled to get air on my Penny Farthing...😉

MSP+1

Dig it yourself ride it how you like?

I've not seen the last one but yes, that seems to sum up the other ones and similar 'edits', Find a cheeky bit of woodland somewhere, build a short bit of trail then ride the carp out of it. Many of the trails around here (Squamish, Whistler, North Shore) started life as unofficial so yes, world wide, as well as Cannock Chase, there are plenty of 'other' trails about! Maybe not perfect but arguably better than blowing up countries that are of no concern of yours.

The damage done by mountain bikers, even hooligan ones, is infinitely insignificant compared to the damage of normal everyday life

What? So you can't talk about anything but tarmac, concrete and plastic?

Watch Moment. Mtb as we know it today is because of people like them.

If you're doing it on someone else's trails you're a ****. But if you build it yourself, what's the harm? Once you're done an abandoned trail reverts to nature in no time at all.

Well, I've been riding since "back in the day" and there has always been hand made single track and downhill trails, that were made expressly for ripping the shit out of.

On bridleways, built trails, etc, ride respectfully, on a secret, specialy made 200ft piece of singletrack, rip the shit out of it. There is no environmental damage, I've made short, loamy tracks like seen in the video, not ridden them for a couple of years, and they've disappeared.

Young 'uns will be young 'uns.

I'd much rather they were doing this than almost any other available method for them to get thier kicks, outside in the fresh air and only likely to hurt themselves.

As has been mentioned before, give it a weeks rain and wind and those tracks will have almost gone again.

Let them have thier fun I say.

The problem I see, is that many cannot understand the subtle differences and small changes that are needed between situations.

It only takes one plumb to decide on a double in the middle of local walking trail, in local SSSI, to cause problems.

The film's just don't convey all the preparation, effort and subtlety. They just show schralpage, potty mouths, setting fire to tree stumps, drifting cars in public roads etc. Guess which bits the kids think is cool and copy?

Back in the day you say?

https://singletrackmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/video-racing-klunkers-on-repack-road/

Seems like most of the 'gnar' round here is done entirely on trails constructed by the riders themselves, and often (at least up in the Valleys) in places where no walkers are likely to go.  This is a win/win really, since we each get our own trails.  The normal outdoor MTBer types can share the trails like nice people, and the shredders can shred in peace.

Of course, there's not so much pressure on trail usage over here...

It only takes one plumb to decide on a double in the middle of local walking trail, in local SSSI, to cause problems.

This.  Coupled in with the OP’s point is a growing proportion of mountain bikers (and ramblers, dog walkers etc) who really have no idea how ‘the countryside’ works and regard it all as one big ‘anything goes’ playground.

Granted, Scotland is a bit different, but in Britain we have an involved legal system around ‘access’ and land ownership in general that is one obvious flash point.  FP vs BW is another obvious one - although even when on a BW it’s still important to respect everyone around you no matter how much fun you’re having or what Strava says.

There’s actually been people trying to build jumps in a SSSI round here, including demolishing a wall for access. And repeating after it’d been repaired.

Magazines and sponsored/supported media really need to step in here I think. Threads like this are just dismissed as a bunch of old killjoys.

The latest 'biggest slice...' obviously gives the general riding location beforehand.

Ive had two non Peak locals (riding mates of mine) email me where the singletrack on the 'Ladybower' section is.  Fair few threads on here about off piste Peak trails used in ads/videos already.  Such coverage can potentially undo the good work already going on in that area by  people who ride regularly in that area and give up their spare time and give our rep a better name.

And I do appreciate it was snowy and the ground was probably frozen up for most of it.

Strangely (probably) I’m becoming more militant about this type of thing as I get older.

Landowners (as a rule) want to keep everyone “OFF MY LAND!” wherever possible. The amount of green space that is being flogged off to property developers either:

a) To cram as many tacky-looking, over-priced, postage stamp for a garden, sad little brick boxes on to make a quick killing and to hell with the future.

Or

b) To reserve as much exclusive green space as possible for themselves, having already trashed other areas of the countryside and made a killing in the process.

Basically makes me think “**** ‘em. Ride it now before they can exclude you”.

It is a little conflict in me, though, as I’m basically an accepter of rules - just becoming less so over time as I realise more and more rules around access are nothing to do with anything more than self-interest on the part of rich folk.

My biggest disappointment is that it took so longer for the forum to go Full STW over this movie!

locking up a wheel even for a short accidental stretch of trail was looked upon as a criminal

Serious question, was this ever a thing? Really? I'm glad I missed it.

Well, I can say with absolute certainty (because I've had the meetings) that the actions of illegal trail/jump builders have provided the primary reasoning for lack of cycle access in three large areas of otherwise open country.

I can name a fourth the we, as a community, were months away from losing all access to, because of the actions of a small group of diggers.

I can also tell you that it is touted as the number one problem with bike access by two national landowning organisations that prevents them expanding access for bikes.

Crack on lads, you're doing a fine job of spoiling it for all of us !

When you look at a country swathed in tarmac and concrete with mountains of plastic garbage, then mountain bikers and other outdoor enthusiast would be the least of my concerns.

The damage done by mountain bikers, even hooligan ones, is infinitely insignificant compared to the damage of normal everyday life.

Thats a bollocks argument. You're basically saying its ok for one group to damage the environment because someone else is doing more damage.

We all need to take responsibility for the impact of our actions big or small.

locking up a wheel even for a short accidental stretch of trail was looked upon as a criminal

Serious question, was this ever a thing? Really? I’m glad I missed it.

It wasn't really. Just the usual small group of self righteous guardians of the trail. In fact the same as now.

But I do agree to much unapproved digging doesn't help with access.

Im glad some of you are able to back me up with examples of where this behaviour has had a negative impact for our sport.

Imho forget ebikes... diggers and shredders are the big threat to access.

You’re basically saying its ok for one group to damage the environment because someone else is doing more damage.

Don't go conflating woodland and "the environment" most of the patches of land with trees in, south of Hadrians wall were planted by people not pixies.

The odd blown out flat corner or little kicker isn't the environmental catastrophe some seem to think, in most cases being left over winter tends to return many such trails to their previous state...

I think the point is really about choosing your spots and thinking about how other user groups are likely to react. A bit of cheeky away from the main trails that dog walkers, ramblers and Dobbin riders frequent is fine IMO, obviously whooping it up on the main trails through a busy bit of local woodland is asking for conflict...

But yeah I've only ever met a couple of full on "trail Boss" types who enjoyed berating the kids for their skids, the sort of people who are really good at killing a pleasant atmosphere and discouraging kids from riding...

Well, I can say with absolute certainty (because I’ve had the meetings) that the actions of illegal trail/jump builders have provided the primary reasoning for lack of cycle access in three large areas of otherwise open country.

I can name a fourth the we, as a community, were months away from losing all access to, because of the actions of a small group of diggers.

I can also tell you that it is touted as the number one problem with bike access by two national landowning organisations that prevents them expanding access for bikes.

Crack on lads, you’re doing a fine job of spoiling it for all of us !

Never had you down as an Uncle Tom, ninfy!

We had a load of well-meaning riders locally start a pro-access group with a laughably stuffy and cynical local country park and its board. The guys concerned really did start out thinking they would get access for mountain bikes. What actually (predictably) happened was that the park board basically dangled a carrot of a dedicated trail in a nearby wood (where their rangers already direct riders they catch in the park). In return they expected to be able to use this group to disseminate anti-mtb messaging, which they did for a while.

Classic divide and conquer tactics whilst trying to quarantine a (non-existent) ‘problem’. There was never a scrap of sincerity on the part of the authorities who, basically, are a bunch of old duffers who probably took on the job when getting around 18 holes of golf was too much and their views were deemed too extreme even for the golf clubhouse. So, instead they want to ban all fun activities from their land. You can come in, if you pay a fiver in the car park, keep out area ‘x’, don’t play ballgames in area ‘y’, don’t run in the corridors......etc.....etc......etc.

i tend to lock up my rear because im crap and ride steep stuff 😀 does that make me a criminal

I don't ride like that and I don't dig but I do live next door to the new forest

... hence to a very large extent I'm with dannyh on this.  My personal view ends at "**** 'em, ride where you want" and doesn't involve digging but as long as it's done with a bit of sympathy/sublety I say crack on

(I know a short "dug" trail in the NF that has a series of small jumps & drops, all no more than 50 yards from a road, that has been there almost totally undisturbed but clearly ridden quite regularly for 10 years at least.  I hope the people who made it and ride it are VERY proud of themselves; they've done a great job as the wider community is either totally oblivious or totally accepting)

It should of been titled .

Talented DH WC rider gives up a career in racing  to go smoke pot with his mates .

I'd like to say I enjoyed the film.

Yes some of it was a bit reckless, some of it was a bit silly. But it does show that there is a passion for finding new trails and pushing the sport.

I can only comment on the Scottish aspect, the types of trail dug and ridden in the video will return to nature just as quickly as they appear what with all the rain we get.

As for giving up WC and going pot smoking.

Fair play to him, quits the WC and still keeps his sponsorship deal allowing him to ride when and where he wants including the EWS.

Wish I could stop doing what I do and my employer pay for me to ride bikes where I want.

The problem with the type of trails shown in the video is that, after a weeks rain, they're going to turn into a stream and cause problems with erosion and waterlogging.

Particularly up here in sunny Scotland.

Couple of points above that I would take issue with.

First the idea that the builder can do what they like is so wrong. Unless the land is private then that's not on. The use of FC land for example is a classic example of modern selfishness. The over riding sense of self entitlement prevalent nowadays means that few people will put their own selfish desire to one side.  Of course that's modern life. We all want everything NOW. We are custodians of the land should be respecting it. Sadly so many people see an activity and want to try it but have no understanding of the issues involved. MTBing is a classic example of this.

Secondly, those who reckon that the little bit of damage a few bikes do means nothing in the greater scheme of things show a selfishness  that purely illustrate my point above. If we all stopped doing our little bit of damage then there would be none. I assume that the people who feel that this is ok will also be the scum who throw litter, drive with speed not economy in mind or continually buy new kit rather than wear the old stuff out.

Sorry to come over all Socialist but personal desire should be taking second place to the greater good. If that means no cycling then so be it. The FoD has become a battle zone not the pleasant place it was when I started on my MTB (which was really just a multi geared version of what we always used in the woods)  in the mid 80's.  Sad really but most people don't care, they just want their own fun.

When did this become a thing?

1897

Having got a 14.5 year old yoof, this shitz and gigglze is what they love. Pedalling up a hill just seems a chore to them, owning a ****y pooz bicycle/170mm travel bike it's the dream.

He's of digging trails in the local wood, on a part where the have been trails for years. In fact I remember digging their 25 years ago! We used to drive like idiots as well, more a case of history repeating?

Back in the day it did appear to be less about destroying the environment but now all too bits of sport appear to be about it so no surprise kids do.

Just watch any DH race, rampage etc, all the courses wouldn’t exist without a spade/digger.

On a more local level around our way it goes through stages when a teenager will get the big for damaging the moor for a couple of years, then they realise there is more to life than bikes and leave the moor in a state rather than putting it back to how it was.

Happens in Grenoside Woods in Sheffield to. All manor of old decaying wooden jumps with rusty nails etc sticking out

I dig trails locally and they get wrecked through being ridden all winter and corners cut etc. Some have fallen into disuse and they grow over and disappear. The damage caused mb bikes is ugly where mud is strewn down a trail making it look like a scar to non riders.

However, the trails are in a working forest which is basically ripped apart by the forestry contractors and all access roads around the area are wrecked.

I'd prefer bikes to play nice but it doesn't really matter.

I ride around tunnel hill in surrey a lot, it's army ranges, but has quite a lot of man made single track. The damage caused by bikes is nothing compared to the damage down by the recent logging. Acres and acres of woods you now can't even walk across because of the debris left, fire roads that you can't walk down without a pair of wellies because of the vehicle damage etc. Thousands of people could ride there for decades, and not match the damage done in a couple of weeks by logging.

I'm baffled people really think like this. Skidding around manmade corners in a muddy woods? They'll dissapear after a week of rain. If this is a cause of concern for you I really don't know how you deal with any of the (many) more important issues.

The forests I ride in (in France) are managed forests and actively used for logging etc.  The heavy machinery absolutely ruins big swathes of them; parts become unrideable for a year when they're harvesting (or whatever it's called).  12 months later they're broadly rideable again and 24 months later you'd not know apart from the trees being less dense.  There are also quite regularly traces of wild boars digging on the singletracks and they make a right mess, but again some 6 months later you can't tell.

I struggle to believe the kids (old or young) with spades, forks and mountain bikes make any impact whatsoever.  I'm not arguing that it's OK because someone else makes more damage - I think that it simply doesn't damage the forest any more than picking mushrooms does.  A decent thunderstorm with heavy rain and strong winds makes more of an impact.

Talented riders and entertaining film makers - wish my lad would do some of this rather than spending all his time on Xbox!!!

. It seemed like the objective of every ride was to cut up the biggest swathes of trail/dirt as possible but locking wheels at every opportunity and skidding into/around every turn

Yea but it's great fun.

It's always been a "thing".

Anyone remember "Dirt"? JMC, Warner and Hemming amongst others carving chunks out of the North York moors?

I see both sides of it, and it's largely about applying a bit of (un)common sense. English access law doesn't help either IMO - you can't ride this well surfaced footpath in winter, but it's perfectly OK to ride that knee deep boggy bridleway across the moors. Personally I have far more of a problem with normal average trail riders (and walkers!) doing stuff like Cut Gate in midwinter and spreading the trail 50m wide, than I do with riders smashing the arse out of a trail they've built themselves on a steep bit of commercial forestry land - the latter will drain better being steep, useage will be low, and in 5 years time the entire lot will get flattened when the area is logged.

Further than that though - our place in the greater MTB world is down to riders getting out all year, all weather, all conditions and doing their thing. Did Peaty, Ratboy, the Athertons, Danny Hart, Manon & Tahnee et al get where they are over the last 20 years by riding nicey nicey and only on dry days, or did they get there by religiously going out and smashing out run after run, trail after trail, no matter what? As a resident of Sheffield I'd say local mountainbiking has benefited far more from having a local ex-world champion fronting it, than it has suffered from the odd bit of trail conflict and cheeky riding.

Which leads me on to the bit about contact with land managers. I have a minor input into Ride Sheffield, and it's interesting to see how the more forward thinking managers are reacting to bikes. On the whole - its very positive and we've had a LOT of footpaths etc reclassified as permissive B/Ways as a result. They've realised they can't stop riders from going where they want, but they can guide them with a bit of give & take - "we absolutely don't want you riding here <<reason given>>, but we're really not bothered about here and there". By their standards bikes are a relatively linear intrusion on the landscape, compared to "naturists" who'll go tramping everywhere to get their photo of the Lesser Spotted Warbler (and scare it off), or dog owners who let their animal run wild and eat said Lesser Spotted Warbler! They also know the MTB community tends to spend a lot of cash in local businesses (cafes!)and can be relied on to pitch in with volunteer days to keep "their" trails running sweet.

Bit of a ramble there, but you get the idea - far from all bad IMO!

Sorry to come over all Socialist but personal desire should be taking second place to the greater good.

Thats all very well, but except in the most extreme cases who decides what is the "greater good" ?

By their standards bikes are a relatively linear intrusion on the landscape, compared to “naturists” who’ll go tramping everywhere to get their photo of the Lesser Spotted Warbler

Are you sure you mean 'naturists'? I hadn't realised that was an issue on the Sheffield side of the Peak...

It wasn’t really. Just the usual small group of self righteous guardians of the trail. In fact the same as now.

I remember riding in the Peak District in the late 80’s, early 90’s when there was a real concern about trail access as MTB’s were seen in the same way as crossers. I lost count of the amount of people who would shout at you for riding a perfectly legal bit of trail at even low speeds. You acted responsibly to ensure you didn’t ruin it for others. When you were away from the people you would go as fast as you could but leaving skid marks was a lasting (even if only for a few days) that MTB’s had been there.

Now there is a LOT more people on bikes in the countryside and a lot more people are more accepting. But there is still a lot of people who don’t want us there and upsetting them for no good reason is a sure fire way to turn the whole situation back 30 years and really put a big question over access for us all.

It is especially tricky now as we have purpose built trail centres. What is stopping powerful land owners and organisations arguing that we don’t need to use rights of way as we have our own playgrounds to use? Newer bikes are faster, newer riders are now skilful to such a degree that we often look like motocrossers - it doesn’t take many NT members or Peak Park rangers to agree in their meetings to “do something about it” for a chain reaction to take place which could be the beginning of the end.

There are people on this thread who just don’t seem to care. I feel sorry for you. You really need to grow up and see the bigger picture. If you’ve got your own bit of land which you can use which doesn’t have public access then go wild, that’s fine. Just please, I beg you, have some respect for the other users of the countryside, and your own sport, and keep it sensible on public rights of way or other bits of land.

There are a lot of people who have ridden MTB’s pretty much their entire life (like me) who really care about the sport and access not just now but for future generations. Even if I couldn’t ride I would hopefully be able to be a good advocate for off road riding. You might just be into riding off road for the fitness or having a laugh with mates or the challenge and if we lost access you’d just move onto another sport. But I can’t. MTB is pretty much all I know and to be honest I’ll do anything to be able to continue doing it, and enabling others to do it way into the future - if that includes slowing down and keeping the trails in the same state I found them I think it’s a small price to pay.

So it kind of falls into two groups then...

1. Managed woodland = do what you want, it`ll all be destroyed anyway when the logging happens.

2. Unmanaged/Public Access = Have some respect, don't dig, don't unnecessarily tear up the trail.

So we are all agreed within two pages, excellent! 😉

As always, it's all about perspective!

Digging some limited, narrow bike trails across a 'managed' woodland that'll get ripped up anyway in 15 years when they log it, and then riding that trial only occasionally, not dropping litter etc well, no problem that i can see (and this is historically often tolerated by landowners)

Digging a massive wide trail through a 1000 yo wood, in an SSI, across popular walkers path, well, that's a different matter.

The trick is to avoid conflict. Our population growth is putting our 'Nature' under increasing pressure everywhere.  We need to be sensible, and find the happy middle ground.  However, today, far too many people (who mostly live in the towns) see "muddy" as COMPLETELY DESTROYED !!!  /dailmail.  Our country side is not (mainly) a chocolate box landscape, and shouldn't be seen as such.....

On another note, that section with Tahnee et al at (I think) Revolution Bike Park - some top skillz on show there, so much speed on such a slippery surface.

However, today, far too many people (who mostly live in the towns) see “muddy” as COMPLETELY DESTROYED !!!  /dailmail.  Our country side is not (mainly) a chocolate box landscape, and shouldn’t be seen as such…..

Very much this. It combines with the subconscious (or conscious) dislike a lot of miserable bastards have for seeing other people enjoying themselves and gets wrapped up into some kind of warped ‘conservation’ issue.

When most of the people who think they ‘appreciate’ the countryside have driven there and parked their cars in the purpose-built car parks (presumably they think that these car parks have existed since Neolithic times).

”Mud in countryside shocker” is a Daily Mail headline waiting to happen.

I’m baffled people really think like this. Skidding around manmade corners in a muddy woods? They’ll dissapear after a week of rain. If this is a cause of concern for you I really don’t know how you deal with any of the (many) more important issues.

Great in theory - but what about the same scenario where the lads do it on a stretch of open heathland or moorland, destroy the top layer of vegetation and result in the water scouring out a great big gully that will never recover?

How about the kids building that little kicker on the edge of that gully, not going to do any harm is it? Except the gulley is actually part of a Scheduled Ancient Monument, and a few months later English Heritage come round and find someone has dug away a big chunk of the bank that formed a prehistoric hill fort in order to use the rocks for a jump, and dug out another patch to create the run out. Suddenly theres all sorts of shit to pay, threats of prosecution and the landowner banning all bikes from the woods.

Its easy to dismiss damage unless you know the context - ground nesting birds being a great example - its a big joke to some but the fact is that the activities if a tiny minority of our community are holding back far greater gains in access for the majority.

Great in theory – but what about the same scenario where the lads do it on a stretch of open heathland or moorland, destroy the top layer of vegetation and result in the water scouring out a great big gully that will never recover?

Is that real or hypothetical?

Great in theory – but what about the same scenario where the lads do it on a stretch of open heathland or moorland, destroy the top layer of vegetation and result in the water scouring out a great big gully that will never recover?

You mean like ramblers have been doing all over the moors for years? Any walk over the Northumberland hills shows deep trenches and bogs that will never recover.

But lots of hypothetical all over this thread, that and extrapolation

You know it's time to chuck it when the scheduled ancient monuments get trotted out. With children's faces on for good measure.

Is that real or hypothetical?

TINAS - the open moor, the scheduled monument and the ground nesting bird one are real examples that I've dealt with over the years

All three led to threats of a ban for all cycling and enforcement (two involved threats of prosecution) where, up until then, it had been informally accepted despite there being no legal right of access.

early 90’s when there was a real concern about trail access as MTB’s were seen in the same way as crossers.

There were plans put forward for a very early trail centre in the Swansea valley at around the time that CyB and Afan were being launched. The locals objected on the basis that there would be too much noise and anti-social behaviour. The site is now used as a motorised off-road training area. I guessed at the time that we were being confused with motocrossers so it’s satisfying that they got what they objected too.

I think I must be getting old. I see the'trails' being built in our local woods as vandalism. There is no legal right to ride a bike in them, someone cuts down trees and pulls down dry stone walls to make the features.

They don't seem to return to their previous state over winter.

Now if you have the land owners permission then fine.

I think I must be getting old. I see the’trails’ being built in our local woods as vandalism. There is no legal right to ride a bike in them, someone cuts down trees and pulls down dry stone walls to make the features.

Depends on the woods then? Dry stone walls are mans creations, many woodlands are just the shittest land with tree's planted on them, most of the trails we were hitting in the tweed valley were carving through the tree ploughed hill sides

Dry stone walls are mans creations

that is a point that is both true and meaningless.

PS So is your bike can i cut it up to make something else then without your permission?

Nope just a perspective needs applying and in the countryside many people have opinions not all are valid, not all are based on good facts and not all are right.

The idea that one video makes people do mad things is a little silly.

There will always be dickheads.

If you think the UK has restrictive access then you should really try a lot of other places first, England is exceptionally progressive compared to a lot of places around the world.

The idea that one video makes people do mad things is a little silly.

I dont recall anyone suggesting that it did.

However it clearly reinforces a stereotype of MTB'ers that can be used against us by those who oppose increased access, and additionally fuels and reinforces the impression that such behaviour is 'normal and acceptable' to the wider MTB community, including a great number of kids and newbies who have been told these riders are who they should look up to and aspire to be like (if that wasn't the case then they wouldn't have sponsorship deals, would they?)

England is exceptionally progressive compared to a lot of places around the world.

Like Scotland?

Most nimbys will never see these videos anyway, but if they do, then imo it's not the reason they're nimbies, it's just the convenient tool they'll use. But they'd find something else. I don't think you win anything by trying not to offend people who want to be offended- you just end up losing the things they want to take away without a fight.

Your nimbies may vary. But I've had people threaten to call the police when they found me clearing nettles off a public footpath, the offended will find a way to be offended.

But it's not the nimbys seeing the video that's a potential issue. It's the lads that think "that's cool" I'll be doing that next time I'm out but without the realisation that the trails in the video are hopefully cut with the landowners permission and the intent of being treated like that.

I think I must be getting old. I see the’trails’ being built in our local woods as vandalism. There is no legal right to ride a bike in them, someone cuts down trees and pulls down dry stone walls to make the features.

They don’t seem to return to their previous state over winter.

Now if you have the land owners permission then fine.

And if the landowner bans you from walking in 'his' woods then that's fair enough and you'll walk elsewhere without complaint?

PS So is your bike can i cut it up to make something else then without your permission?

Yes, crack on.  It's one of my collection of six million bikes paid for by my great grandfather.  I'll probably not even notice!

Most of what I see in the video is harmless fun, although I do agree that around walkers paths it's worth reigning things in to avoid giving nimbys and landowners ammo against riding.

I don't think there's ever been a time in all my years of mountain biking that some one hasn't been keen to tell me that I'm just about to loose permission to ride somewhere Be that on bridleways, or in a particular wood, or moorland track and kids building a scrubby little  line with a  couple of turns likewise is something that's always happened. I built one in Rassler's Wood nr. Marlow 40 years ago.

This film and thread show that while everything changes, nothing really changes.

@ninfan try looking a little further usa, Australia, nz, parts of Europe ..

^ Austria & Germany, 2m rule. If it isn’t 2m wide or more, you can’t ride it (Bikeparks excl)

I've been riding mountain bikes for twenty years..and in that time I have seen open hostility towards me on legal bridleways with stick wielding red socks chasing me with fury ..to a greater acceptance in the last 5 years in particular on footpaths which would have been a complete no-go when I first started ..

My own take on things ..is that I ride where I like but that is mainly on b/ways and paths in remote hills , mountains & moorland  ..Im doing no more damage than the walkers who share them ..I have no problem with secret / off piste trails particularly on F.C land ..as already said they will be trashed by forest machinery in the end anyway ..but draw the line on private land without the landowners permission...thats just asking for trouble.

Ninfans right.  In Scotland you have right to roam - a very precious and unusual thing..  Its a qualified right tho - and it boils down to  "don't be a dick"    By and large it works. No other country has it.

I don’t think you win anything by trying not to offend people who want to be offended

true but "we" dont win anything by not giving a shit where or how we build our cheeky trails.

Both walkers and cyclists have some dicks in their community and neither is particularly indicative of their community or helpful to it.

No other country has it.

A they are making it to the point....

I used to come here when it was all just fields.

Because one Scotland has better access rights than that doesn't invalidate mikewsmith's point that compared to many other countries England has progressive access.

I dont recall anyone suggesting that it did.
However it clearly reinforces a stereotype of MTB’ers that can be used against us by those who oppose increased access, and additionally fuels and reinforces the impression that such behaviour is ‘normal and acceptable’ to the wider MTB community, including a great number of kids and newbies who have been told these riders are who they should look up to and aspire to be like (if that wasn’t the case then they wouldn’t have sponsorship deals, would they?)

That's kind of my issue with it. I would think that these videos are watched by a large number of kids who subsequently think "this is how we should ride/behave". They probably don't understand that there was more than likely consultation with landowners during the making of the film and just head straight to there nearest riding spot and start trashing it.

Another case in point was an episode of The Atherton Diaries I watched about a year ago, where Rachel and her two brothers hired scooters, absolutely trashed them by riding them over jumps etc, then returned them to the owner and walked away. They all thought it was hilarious and had great fun trashing the bikes, but as role models it doesn't set a great example of behaviour to the kids that look up to them.

I was sliding around, doing skids on bikes before mountain bike videos existed. It's what kids on bikes do. I'd hazard a guess, that most of the people on here did exactly the same thing. So what, someone made a video of it, that in the bigger picture, no one will see.

Or, you could just ban fun altogether, and your kids could stay inside and look forward to a life of obesity and diabetes.

And if the Atherton's on mopeds annoys you, you don't want to look on Bernard Kerr's instagrIn at the moment 😀 but I'm not going to complain, because I'm honest, and did exactly the same thing as a teenager abroad.

I had more of an issue in a recent Dudes of Hazzard video where they though it highly hilarious to jump in a "adolescent" sapling tree snapping it in the process.  I just watched it and thought, why?  Maybe i'm getting old?  but i have no problem with people shreding it in woods, cutting trails etc.  nature will take it back once its unused for a few months.  But snapping a tree for a laugh just seemed like ****ish behaviour.  Maybe nowadays since the advent of the mobile phones its easier to break stuff in the wild then smash up a phone booth...