I'm asking this here as there's a lot more experience with mtb than on an ebike forum so bear with me 😉
My mountain bike journey only really began last october with my Scott e-genius 730. A bike I still have and think is superb. I've used it for everything, trail rides and centres and bike parks. It has always felt brilliant especially after the forks were upgrade to some Fox rhythm's. I've made a point to track my progress using strava and in a few places managed to claim a KOM or two on the ebike specific settings. At my local trail centre I've matched the quickest non ebike times, I also seem to like jumps although my 50 yr old knees don't so much....I only mention strava as my questions relate to how I ride and where I ride . So as my fitness has increased I went and bought a non ebike, having spent 5 hours on it last weekend when I jumped back on the ebike I realised how heavy it felt especially landing jumps and popping the front wheel up. But I love the extra speed it has as that is what I like best about mountain biking, so am I expecting too much to be able to find an ebike that has a similar light feel to the normal bike I've bought ? If so which ebikes should I be trying as I'd also like more suspension than the 140mm I have on my present bike.
Am I right in assuming it's the extra weight of the ebike making it heavy or is it the geometry of my current one or a combination of the two things ?
The ebike is this one
My non ebike is a new calibre bossnut evo
Apart from the weight difference is the geometry and set up between them at all responsible for the massive difference in how they feel ?
A lot of weight differences in bikes end up being more psychological than anything else - you're often talking about small differences, which become meaningless differences relative to the rider's weight.
ebikes are obv significantly heavier, but I wouldn't discount the mental side. A lot of lads here had said they feel a bit emasculated and weak on the pedal-assist, really notice the weight more than you would think. Get back on the normal bike and they're flying.
I've got no experience of the E-genius, but do of the Genius it is based on (so similar angles, travel, components and so on), and an older bossnut. I would say the Scott is actually more suited to what you describe than the bossnut.
I'd go with trying to improve your set up on the scott.
Possibly raising the bars for a more motocrossy feel will improve the jumping and landing, and popping up the front wheel, but will then require some modification to cornering technique.
Improving suspension set up might help (or you may have done this already, but if its your first 'proper' bike you may be yet to discover the world of suspension tuning.)
Before you rush out and buy a 170 or 180mm travel 'super enduro' bike as I think they are called now, find a ruler, look at 140mm, and 170mm, and think about how much little extra this is.
Whilst 140>170 may not seen much in a measurement context, the difference in riding is quite dramatic though?
"am I expecting too much to be able to find an ebike that has a similar light feel to the normal bike I’ve bought"
Yes. The bike itself weighs almost twice as much and the chainstays tend to be longer so it takes even more weight shift to manual. I recommend high bars for more leverage!
Thanks all, chainstay on my ebike is 490mm, more than the latest ebikes for sure. There's 8kg difference in weight between the two as well.
I'll try a different bar position and see how that helps
Whilst 140>170 may not seen much in a measurement context, the difference in riding is quite dramatic though?
Many other factors at play though. But yes, Going from the Genius / Stumpjumper style to the Stage 6 / AM9 style has a big difference in ride. Not all of which can be attributed to the 30mm extra available bounce.
Loads of Emtb riders land jumps heavily.
it's not the bike.
it's poor technique.
e bikes are heavier so you do need to be quite strong and have good technique to jump an Emtb as well and smoothly as a normal far lighter mtb. it's the same technique on both but the heavier bike needs more input both pre-loading and in the air. timing is very slightly different on an ebike too. Few Emtb riders are decent at pumping a bike.
learn to jump the mtb smoothly paying particualr attention to landing smoothly and matching the angle of the landing transition...
Also. practice bunnyhops. A lot.
When you're compitient it doesn't require much adjustment take the skills and apply them to an Ebike.
No offence chief. but can you manual you eeb?
higher bars isn't great advice. For one thing it may well ruin the bikes handling.
The E Genius is a pretty sorted bike stock.
I kinda get why you're saying what you're suggesting. but...
You don't "leverage" the bars to manual.
You raise the front with your legs/feet while weightshifting your upper body backwards and downwards simultaniously. You then hold the balance by penduluming your arse hanging back and low from the bars the leverage (push) comes from your legs as you push the cranks to move the rear wheel forwards. (as opposed to pulling the bars rearwards)
^^^ 😂 I was going to say, Geex'll be along in a minute to tell you, you're shit.
In essence, what I think he's trying to say but lacks the social skills to word without simultaneous put downs countered with self-promotion, is that ebikes are heavy and there is no getting around that.
They feel different and are different and require an adjustment in technique over 'regular' bikes. Stick with it. 🙂👍
No worries with the advice it's all good !
So when I started this mtb journey in October I overdosed on reading skills for riding one, bearing in mind I'm no novice to 2 wheels having ridden motorbikes since I was 6 yrs old some 44 yrs ago, I've raced motorbikes for 10 years and I'm fairly competent on them. I can also wheelie for miles and could do the same as a kid on a cycle.
So I tried and tried to manual my ebike and it just didn't seem to be something I could do, until I got the normal bike and tried on that, I nearly flipped it as it came up so easy with little effort. I've since tried again on the ebike and it's better but nowhere near as easy or natural to do. So in simple terms I can't manual the ebike but I can on the normal one.
"No offence chief. but can you manual you eeb?
higher bars isn’t great advice. For one thing it may well ruin the bikes handling."
I can manual it as well as all my other bikes - which is to say, when I want the front wheel up in the air then I can make it happen, be it to clear something or to pump manual through a dip. But I've never got the hang of holding a manual, stylish though it is!
All I've noticed is that vs my non-E bikes the more Moto style higher bar position works better.
"Few Emtb riders are decent at pumping a bike."
Whatever else is shit about my riding, this is something I'm pretty decent at!
Bikes with shorter stems and higher bars are easier to manual. That's a fact despite what Your Highness thinks about lifting your bars with your feet or whatever.
Doesn't the Bossnut Evo come with a 45mm stem? Scott seem like the kind of company that still put XC stems on everything.
If the bars and stem are different I'd try swapping them over from the Bossnut to the E-Genius. It's a useful experiment that won't cost you any money and it will give you some perspective on how different shapes alter the handling.
You also need to get here to Swinley on the 28/29 and we'll Shockwiz the heck out of your suspension on the Eeb.
So to learn a little more I’ve swapped stems, the ebike now has a 45mm instead of 65mm, I’ll see how it goes on tomorrow’s outing
But I love the extra speed it has as that is what I like best about mountain e-biking
That's what you meant I think!
do yourself a favour and spend time learning to actually hold a manual Chief. You should then learn to stop hauling on the bars.
raising the front wheel to cross a dip or clear something really isn't the same thing as it's basically possible without ever reaching the balance point or holding the wheel up with your weight/legs. I know skills coaches now call what you're doing a manual but it really isn't as the front wheel starts falling again falling as soon as it reaches it's highest point. You CAN actually do this by just pulling on the bars. And that's why you're probably struggling to hold it.
“do yourself a favour and spend time learning to actually hold a manual Chief. You should then learn to stop hauling on the bars.”
I should but I don’t haul on the bars to get the front up, I push with the hands and then the feet. I’m just very bad at having the confidence to get all the way up without looping out! Pulling on the bars to lift the front is horrible, it falls back so quickly and so hard because all your weight has gone forwards.
