Move over XC 29ers....
 

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[Closed] Move over XC 29ers. The gravel bikes are out to get you.

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https://www.velonews.com/2018/11/news/the-dirt-how-and-why-kabush-won-iceman-on-a-gravel-bike_481072

Finally settles that argument then.


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 12:32 pm
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Fast man on bike wins race ?


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 12:36 pm
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So not a real XC race then?

The course consists primarily of dirt roads, two-tracks (the majority of the course), abandoned railroad beds and the world famous Vasa Nordic ski trail. It crosses only one paved road (Williamsburg Rd at mile 17) as it winds through the breathtaking terrain of the Pere Marquette State Forest in Northern Lower Michigan. In 2017, 5393 athletes participated!!

So the conclusion is a gravel bike is better for a long gravel road race? I wonder if he met any bears, you know in the woods, wonder what they were doing?


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 12:41 pm
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Looks like a drop bar 29er .

Long live  ATBs.

🙂


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 12:42 pm
 PJay
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Looks like a drop bar 29er .

This surely?

-- Edit --

After looking at the Open U.P frame it does claim to be an adventure frameset. Sooner or later though I'm sure that we'll end up with flat bar gravel/adventure bikes (I've already seen full sus. ones) and then we'll really be confused.

I ride a rigid XC 29er as a gravel bike.


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 12:51 pm
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My LBS is getting some of them in to demo soon.  I might be tempted to take one out. I imagine I'll like it.  Don't know what happens after that...


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 12:53 pm
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Anyway, well done him on reading the race and taking a chance on doing things differently.

Still think this is more impressive, though.


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 12:56 pm
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The article literally states that it's 27.5"


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 1:06 pm
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I'd love to see him do an SXC course on that bike.

Negative Big-Hitter points, druid!


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 1:17 pm
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At least it's an attempt to make XC racing interesting....


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 1:24 pm
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Was he peak or no peak?


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 1:46 pm
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That looks like a nice bike.

Anyone managed to put a definitive label on a Salsa Cutthroat yet?


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 1:48 pm
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At least it’s an attempt to make XC racing interesting….

Plenty of interesting and technical xc out there, this race just looks like old school gravel marathon.


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 1:51 pm
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Hang on, hang on! So he's won it twice before but on a 'normal' mountain bike? .... Don't think it's about the bike really, he'd probably win on a 26in old Kona


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 1:52 pm
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>>> goes off to look at photos of Tomac in full flight 😉


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 2:00 pm
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Think I would be correct in saying it's a mountain bike race that pre dates "gravel". It's an old school race.

I can think of plenty of point to point mountain bike race I used to do in the 90's where a gravel bike might have been an advantage.

But think might is the key word. Fitness more so.


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 2:08 pm
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@nedrapier, it's 14:20 and I now want the beer I was planning for 19:00.


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 2:18 pm
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Lovely bike.

@ned-that’s the best cx training video I’ve ever seen. 🙂


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 2:41 pm
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ned-that’s the best cx training video I’ve ever seen

Not full pressups though but #lightweight 😉


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 2:44 pm
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Think I would be correct in saying it’s a mountain bike race that pre dates “gravel”. It’s an old school race.

I can think of plenty of point to point mountain bike race I used to do in the 90’s where a gravel bike might have been an advantage.

I wonder what modern bike would be quickest down the old-school Kamikaze DH at Mammoth?


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 2:58 pm
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Was he peak or no peak?

Peak beard?

Peak Lycra?

Peak inked?


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 2:58 pm
 DezB
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his interview answers are pretty much exactly as you'd expect...

[i]

VN: Would you recommend it to anyone out there, trying a mountain bike race on a gravel bike?

GK: I think it’s a terrible idea, no one should race one out there. None of the other guys should try it, definitely doesn’t work. I don’t know how I got away with it

[/i] 😀


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 3:01 pm
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In other shock news I left a couple of lambos a d a ferrari standing on my gravel bike. Super cars should be turning up cheap these days when they all hear.


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 3:07 pm
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This article explains what is going on:

https://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/gravel-bikes-roadie-revenge-on-mountain-bike-progress-51828/

Kabush was actually riding the same bike as before, just differently labelled.


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 4:33 pm
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Sorry was their a point to that article, it did seem to head up its own arse in paragraph 1.


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 7:25 pm
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I think you missed the irony in the article, either that or you bought an adventure/gravel/gnarmac bike and its too close to home.

It has a point though, what is the point of a 650b gravel bike (especially if it has any suspension)? The number actually used to ride 500pmiles across a continent off road is going to be miniscule.

Its like CX bikes and CX racing, it was invented before mountain bikes, and was basically a road race with an element of having to run a cross country course shouldering the bike. The bike never evolved to be the optimum tool for the job, its just the only bike shaped object that the UCI allows to race.

So a gravel bike is a looser interpretation of a bike that was not actually any good at anything other than fitting an arbitrary set of rules.

I have a CX bike and now a Vagabond, riding the CX bike off road is a bit like bungee jumping without tying the knot first, you're just about getting it sorted and surviving, most of the time, occasionally you hit the ground. The vagabond will hopefully be 'just' bungee jumping, whereas an actuall MTB is just taking the stairs.


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 8:42 pm
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^ true and made me chuckle


 
Posted : 09/11/2018 10:54 pm
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Anyone managed to put a definitive label on a Salsa Cutthroat yet?

@Molgrips “race car drop handle mountain bike”. It’s bloody quick, and quicker still with a Fox 32 Stepcast fork on it.


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 5:39 am
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Put the same wheels and tyres on a mountain bike or a gravel bike and the difference in speed is going to be minimal.  It is more about what bars you prefer and what position you prefer on the bike.

I regularly swap bars on the same bike (I don't have any levers on the bars so literally takes 2 minutes before a ride)  If I know I am going more off road I put on risers, if I know I am going be riding road I put on drops or bullhorns.  The risers make it feel more mountain bike like and the drops make it feel more road bike like but the bike doesn't go any quicker.


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 7:27 am
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Arguing over nuances, semantics and the finer points of interpretation is one of the enjoyable aspects of this Forum, but really, can’t we all just get along?

i mean...  it’s just ‘cycling’.

When I was 12 years old, in 1976, me and my schoolmates rode our bikes off road on tracks through the woods near my home. The bikes developed, first by us stripping them of their mudguards, front brakes, etc, then by putting cowhorn handlebars on them (remember those?), eventually removing the gears, turning them into single speeds.

By that measure, my mates and I invented “ Mountain Biking”.....  at least 8 years before Joe Breeze, Gary Fisher and the Mt Tam lot did. And everything since that time has been an evolution of our efforts.  Of course, we didn’t ‘invent’ mountain biking, lots of kids were doing the same thing at the time, as presumably had lots of others before us... for generations.

It’s all the same, but slightly different: Mountain Bike, Gravel Bike, Road Bike... if you love cycling, you love ‘em all.


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 8:32 am
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 Put the same wheels and tyres on a mountain bike or a gravel bike and the difference in speed is going to be minimal.  It is more about what bars you prefer and what position you prefer on the bike.

It depends.

Off road its the bars and geometry that make even an old skool 29er seem long and slack. Riding in a group they let you hammer along over anything slightly technical much quicker. Then when you turn back onto the road the CX riders get onto the drops you struggle as you just can't get aero enough.

Puncture resistance aside, the tyres dont actually feel like they make anywhere near as much difference.


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 8:54 am
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I do love this grey area of bike spec and mix-terrain use. Forced compromises from opposed needs - there's no answer, only interpretations.

It has a point though, what is the point of a 650b gravel bike (especially if it has any suspension)? The number actually used to ride 500pmiles across a continent off road is going to be miniscule.

On this point, but dodging the suspension gravel bike point as that's getting silly-niche ... Riding proper distances off-road on what most see as a 'gravel' bike gets slow and uncomfortable. Some race the TDR (arguably more of a gravel race or world-touring terrain more than a true MTB race) on Cutthroats etc but they're close to a 29er with alt bars in ride position. Gravel (ie lighter, 650Bx50 or 700x40 ish, more road-orientated position) bikes can be fast off-road for shorter distances but they will beat the crap out of you soon enough. They're only fast initially due to the handling and road-ish ride position that eggs you on until you're broken... fun but not sustainable.

A 650B gravel/randonneur type of all-road bike is great for rough lanes, easy byways and a road ride that includes some tracks, that's all. A perfectly valid use for many of us.

The risers make it feel more mountain bike like and the drops make it feel more road bike like but the bike doesn’t go any quicker.

If you had a freewheel the bars may help make more difference! : )


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 9:36 am
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Off road its the bars and geometry that make even an old skool 29er seem long and slack. Riding in a group they let you hammer along over anything slightly technical much quicker. Then when you turn back onto the road the CX riders get onto the drops you struggle as you just can’t get aero enough.

And that is with all riders using the same wheels and tyres?


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 9:42 am
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If you had a freewheel the bars may help make more difference! : )

Can't really see what that has to do with it.  The point was that everything else on the bike is the same apart from the bars and the bars are what make the bike feel different to ride, handle differently, better for one scenario than another etc,.


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 9:45 am
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It'll be interesting to see how many more folk turn up on gravel bikes for next years race - and how they place.


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 11:19 am
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Put the same wheels and tyres on a mountain bike or a gravel bike and the difference in speed is going to be minimal.  It is more about what bars you prefer and what position you prefer on the bike.

Isn't the common perception that gravel bikes are rigid and MTBs can have suspension?

And that properly off road, most of us are slower on narrow drops than flat bars?


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 11:58 am
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And that properly off road, most of us are slower on narrow drops than flat bars?

On properly off road yes.  On road and gravel no.  So a ride with section of road, gravel and off road it can favour one or the other depending on how much of each type of terrain there is.  And if you use the same mountain bike tyres on the gravel bike and the MTB the differences are even less.


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 12:05 pm
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I think you missed the irony in the article, either that or you bought an adventure/gravel/gnarmac bike and its too close to home.

Just trying too hard....

It’ll be interesting to see how many more folk turn up on gravel bikes for next years race – and how they place.

Given it sounds almost entirely non technical I'm not sure why it's take so long.

After doing the hope pre peak ride riding a mountain bike even a light xc 29r gave so much away on the fast stuff that it just seemed like you were giving everyone else a big head start.

I don't expect to see them entering any actual technical xc races for a while though


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 12:09 pm
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Not full pressups though but #lightweight

Yeah half range bullshit and elbows flared, very poor.


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 12:30 pm
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If you had a freewheel the bars may help make more difference! : )

Can’t really see what that has to do with it.

Meant as a bit of good-natured ribbing only... it's a fair like for like comparison and what I meant was that your point on it not being any quicker might be more about the accepted limitations of a fixed wheel bike. In a narrower range of speed and terrain tech I don't think bar do make any real difference aside from comfort or feel.


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 3:20 pm
 geex
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Roadbikes are the future of mtb!

Killing off 26" dirt jump bikes by the minute.


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 3:56 pm
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While clearly never going to replace a dirt jump bike it does prove the point that you can ride road tyres (well sort of 30c file tread) on those sorts of surfaces although he was cheating by having bars high and saddle low...


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 5:13 pm
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I listed after that frame when it was released, but £2700 was a little steep.


 
Posted : 10/11/2018 7:25 pm
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I've got lots of bikes. I've ridden them all on the gravel and single track (The fixed wheel trike was awkward and the TT bike clogged up a bit). I've ridden them all on the road. I've got lots of ………….? bikes.


 
Posted : 11/11/2018 6:10 pm
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In my opinion: mountain bike fun starts with 130 mm fork travel.

XC races are connected to "pain". Less travel more pain.

If you like to increase the pain level make the tyres more narrow and pump them up very high...

And if the gravel bike is not enough pain buy an cyclocross bike!


 
Posted : 12/11/2018 9:01 am

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