Mountain Bike Bikefit - Market Research

Jon

I think it's a fab idea.... really really good.

Is there any merit in 'feel' ? e.g a rider likes their bikes in a certain feel, whereas road bikes are more set by numbers/figures ?

It's a toughie isn't it. I'm guessing one of the reasons for this, is simply that riding position on a mountain bike is far more dynamic than on a road bike, so as long as the basics are right - appropriate sized frame etc - there's more scope for the rider to adjust body position between the contact points to optimise fit and less of a penalty for being a bit 'off' than with a road bike, where you're pretty much nailed in position unless you're out of the saddle.

There's also a point where mountain bike fit merges into technique - eg: body position to weight the front wheel. Not saying there isn't a market for it, but it seems like a much less precise science than road bike fit - maybe less so with elite XC I guess - and I think you'd need a pretty compelling way of illustrating the benefits to make it an attractive proposition.

I'm hardly an expert on this, but I wonder if the fact that mountain bikers' bodies are often moving in space relative to the bike rather than bing fixed in space by the bike is why there's little real overt demand for mountain bike fit?

Why do you think it's needed? Genuinely interested. And how would you go about doing it? A lot of road bike fit seems based on video-based analysis of seated riders, but with mountain bikes, the whole process of riding is more dynamic with body movement and suspension forces all a factor.

That said, basics like frame size, stem length, bar width and rise/height, saddle height for pedalling, yep, I can see that.

it sounds like a good idea to me.

I think plenty of us are guilty for sticking with certain parts, as we dont want to pay out to 'try' something new. Be it stem length, rise or sweep of a handlebar etc. So if the opportunity to do that with the science to back up the changes, that would appeal.

Also with bikes becoming longer and longer, its easy to get swept up by the hype of LLS, yet in reality, it doesnt suit everyone. So again, if there was a way to work with that, it would be beneficial.

I had a gravel bike for a while (only ever rode it on the road mind) and it use to give me such tight shoulders. I should've had a bike fit, but never bothered. its sold now, but mainly due to lack of use, rather than the discomfort it brought me.

I think if you took a different approach to road fitting you could find a valid niche. There are some under-developed ideas about fitting on MTBs and MTB geometry is much more variable than road bikes. Turning it all into a system/process won't be easy. But it's got potential, I think the differences you can make are greater than the upgrades most of us fit to MTBs so there's a lot of 'net promoter' type benefits to be had if done well.

What is your current view on bike-fitting for mountain bikes?
- I don't think there is any - it's all left to rider feel. Or we get roadie wisdom applied to MTB.
Would you have a bike fit on your mountain bike?
- Yes potentially
What would you like to have addressed during a bike fit?
- Comfort, power output and effect on handling / potential to handle the bike better
What components have you been curious about testing but held off on due to uncertainty that they would work for you? ( bars, pedals, saddle, bike size etc..)
- no specific items since changing one thing at a time is easy to review +/-, but I've held off buying a new FS bike due to the cost Vs uncertainty of sizing and fit for my needs, a combo of lacking both testing and fitting trial availability.
How far would you travel to get your mountain bike fit to you? (if it was going to be an awesome experience with a great outcome)
- Since I'm skeptical of bike fit systems (I've met great bike fitters who really know the subject but I think most formulaic averaging systems used in many shops are worth little) not very far - you'd need to convince me with something online first. After that, maybe 2.5-3hrs drive and preferably a train trip.

e.g a rider likes their bikes in a certain feel, whereas road bikes are more set by numbers/figures ?

I think feel as in subjective impressions of flex/stiffness or fast/stable steering etc come into road bikes just as much as MTBs. It's based in rider personality rather than type of bike.

I think feel as in subjective impressions of flex/stiffness or fast/stable steering etc come into road bikes just as much as MTBs. It’s based in rider personality rather than type of bike.

MY perception is that a rider on a road bike wants a different focus potentially.

Roadie - I want more power when seated. Everything else can be sacrificed in some way
MTBer - I want better control and comfort.

The roadie you get figures from leg, torso, arms, shoulders, all of them combine to make an optimal riding position to make more power.. the MTBer, doesn't care about optimal pedalling power in the same way..

Maybe ?

I’m hardly an expert on this, but I wonder if the fact that mountain bikers’ bodies are often moving in space relative to the bike rather than bing fixed in space by the bike is why there’s little real overt demand for mountain bike fit?

This is true, though we move in a space dictated by bars and pedals, saddle to some extent, and handling is influenced by what that range is, how that range works for us ergonomically or how far from the ideal neutral point we are to begin with. It gets complex when you take suspension into account and it gets expensive to suggest a change of eg +20mm on reach.

A lot of road fitting is really from a time when bikes were lugged with equal TT and ST lengths as the starting point and you got a fit before buying a custom frame or a frame with the same geometry basis as 95% of the other alternatives. With MTBs, eg your point on front wheel weighting.. reach, stack, HTA, F-C .. all affecting how seated fit comfort and handling preferences interact - so many variables to balance and not cheap to change any of them.

I say all this, OP is probably reading thinking "Yeah I know, that's why I have this system worked out.." : )

Roadie – I want more power when seated. Everything else can be sacrificed in some way
MTBer – I want better control and comfort.

Maybe, if the roadie is only riding for racing power and the MTBer isn't riding for power output as well as handling ability. With respect I think it's a massive generalisation and the average road or MTB bike buyer is a mix of both sets of needs you mention or can be as much one as the other.

Maybe, if the roadie is only riding for racing power and the MTBer isn’t riding for power output as well as handling ability. With respect I think it’s a massive generalisation and the average road or MTB bike buyer is a mix of both sets of needs you mention or can be as much one as the other.

I hear you... But how many times on here do we see posts about XYZ power, ABC average speed, must complete in this time... But all on road bikes...

You never see a post which is "I went to the woods and managed to knock off my fastest 10km loop"... Just doesn't really happen. But you see loads of "went out and hit 204w average for 90mins"

Just makes me think that roadies want and need completely different things (generally)

I know when I make new frames for myself, it is an iterative process based on experimenting with the current bike.

On the last one I spent a ride in the Lakes really thinking and moving around. E.g slogging up a bumpy grass climb somewhere on the back of High Street, what is it like to slide a bit forwards, backwards etc. Move hands to simulate what if the bars were wider / narrower / nearer / further away. Same on descents, nadgery bits etc. Then thinking options for how I can achieve the tweaked position in a new bike e.g. shorter stem and longer frame, but also how much will that move the wheel and change the weight balance. I'm now at my limit of frame length and slackness, as I'm not prepared to sacrifice performance on undulating / pedalling terrain for an extreme slack downhill position. But that is just me - some customers might want the opposite.

You are really going to have to mix static in the shop changes with assessment out on the trails riding with them.

on large and xl bikes not enough stack, hence lots of taller (older?) folk with spacers and riser bars,

Interesting one - and I dont know the answer

But in theory the 'expert' shop that sells you the mtb has sold you the one that fits you best (rather than the one they had in stock 😉 )

After that you can make tweaks.

However OP wouldnt your job be a nightmare ? A road bike has fairly specific positions for specific outcomes ie once you have comfort and power sorted its a matter of tweking ie for time trial etc.

MTB's is a different world and so open to interpretation and want. ie control going down hill, control going up hill, fast steering, slow steering, more power, more ability to go downhill.

As OP I think you would never be able to get it right for the customer. You can give them hints on what may work for certain types of riding, but they wont have one bike setup that is the magic bullet, unlike road biking where its easier to hit that sweet spot.

Anyhow if they have an Atherton bike they wont need a bike fit

Rather than a traditional "bike fit" which, as others have said tends to focus on exact positions of hands, feet, angles of limbs etc, I think you'd be better off with some sort of custom bike setup, especially suspension.

Less of a direct "bike fit" and more a case of optimising all aspects of that bike to that person for their main style of riding.

Bike fit kind of goes out the window when a rider is changing saddle height by 150-200mm via a dropper post as soon as the trail goes downhill!

You can get away with quite extreme changes on MTB - swapping a 70mm stem for a 40mm for example. If you tried a switch that extreme on a road bike you'd be in all sorts of bother hence the importance of a more precise bike fit for roadies.

I hear you…

Likewise - you're not wrong and bike fit for MTB is a smaller market for sure, for those reasons. I'm not convinced online posts etc are representative generally though, edge-case riders create a lot of chat about fit for power or handling at the extreme end and the majority of us are riding A-B on bikes we want a good balance of power output, comfort and handling from, on or off-road. Q may be whether we're prepared to pay for bike fit work.

Enduro racing is big - isn't that a prime area for power output & efficiency balanced with handling ability?
Gravel is big - road fit with off-road handling needs, my personal fave of head-scratching balancing acts and frame design trial and error?

I'd say there's a niche to work on here and a small niche business can be a great thing. Great may not = riches, but if it pays bills and makes you happy..

MTB is a compromise of positions, with a lot of movement, so there is no one fit - it's more like a fit space, and a neutral jra position could be the antifit for some bikes. Risk of it being a poorly-defined exercise unless riders had something very specific in mind.

Personally it would only be something I'd look at for injury or something related. Like I really love this bike and it should fit me, but it's sparking my back after two hours and I don't know why that is. That sort of thing.

Is there a market for this?

As I see it, for road there are two bike fit markets:

1. Time trialists after the best position for aerodynamics / power
2. People with discomfort sitting in the same position on a road bike for hours

I just don't see an MTB bike fitting service as anything other than uber niche...

We have a few bike fitting people in Cambridge, but it's a very cycling orientated town, and one of the fitters is the head coach of the local tri-club, so he sort of has a captive market as anyone into road cycling here knows of him.

I think you’d be better off with some sort of custom bike setup, especially suspension.

That's true - OP are you expert a suspension setup. That will make a huge difference to how an mtb rides.

Just sounds too complicated as a business to provide IMO

As someone who was having certain joint pain and went for a bike fit, I came away with mixed opinions.

It completely resolved my knee pain while on long spinny drags or longer XC rides. Taking a look at my position on the bike and making some very small tweaks massively helped. Way better than my ham fisted attempts.
Unfortunatly, despite me being absolutely clear that I rode plenty of rough/technical terrain as well as the flatter stuff to get between them, the fitter ignored my handlebar width requirement. He set the bike up at the front for the width his system said I should be on (660mm). This put me off right there.

So colour me intriqued.

What is your current view on bike-fitting for mountain bikes?
See above. I think there is value in it for some uses - especially rides where there is plenty of spinning to compliment the plummeting.

Would you have a bike fit on your mountain bike?
Not again, not until I had confidence it was mountain bike specific.

What would you like to have addressed during a bike fit?
- Seated pedalling position
- Optimal Bike reach taking into account torso/arm length
- Bar width/sweep to ensure optimal body position for intended use
- Saddle width

What components have you been curious about testing but held off on due to uncertainty that they would work for you? ( bars, pedals, saddle, bike size etc..)
New frame. My bike is short and I know this, but it's an expensive journey to try a longer frame. So I stick with my short frame. I'd love science (well someone with a tape measure 🙂 ) to be able to determine that

How far would you travel to get your mountain bike fit to you? (if it was going to be an awesome experience with a great outcome)
Depends on the awesomeness of the experience. Probably a couple of hours, more if extra awesome is promised.

Think you're going to "top out" on level of optimisation you can get to, this will also vary with discipline. I'm imagining with an XC fit, you would probably get 90% of the way to a "perfect" place. Now take your average MTB trail rider, I reckon this will drop to about 75% there, for DHer or similar, probably only 60% there.

Another way of putting it, i think you'd only be able to weed out the outliers with really bad fit, ie saddle too high, stem 50mm too long, frame 2 sizes wrong, bars 30mm too low etc.

I don't think you can offer a fully optimised fit unless someone really talented at spotting fit, goes out riding with someone multiple times, filming etc, i really don't think it's an afternoon or even a day in a room with some kit.

Do you do suspension setup too?

I think there could be a market in offering setting up and tuning of suspension

Have you thought about how the mechanics will work eg our local bike fitter normally ends up changing seat posts, saddles and stems to get the right fit. With dropper posts you've lost the ability to shift the seat post back with a layback post and most saddles don't have much range of movement on the rails. He actually stocks one model which has a decent set of rails on it.

Also changing stem lengths is going to affect handling etc, whereas on a road bike you won't really notice it.

You're much more limited on an MTB compared to a road bike in terms of changing position.

I've thought about getting something like this for a long time, but I would really like to see suspension setup and tuning added to the mix.

I think Jake at Sprung Suspension offers this kind of service, and I plan to get booked in a bit later in the spring.

I've had a bike fit done on my road bike and it certainly wasn't a cheap one! Around the £200 mark which in comparison to the cost of the bike was really peanuts. I had it done because upwards of 40 miles I was getting significant knee pain, as in I was crying it was so bad. It didn't make massive changes, a slight tweak here and there. The biggest revelation being the custom insoles it came with as I have a very high arch I now know so without support I get rotational movement which causes pain.

Having said all that I wouldn't consider going for a MTB fit just because of the reasons you've identified yourself. The MTB is a lot more fluid a position, yes it may not be the perfect setup for going uphills but it feels amazing downhill. Different people have different priorities and I dont feel it would be beneficial to the riding I do. Unless you're in pain or discomfort, can you even tell the difference the small change has made? If I made it without you being aware, would you even know? Equally I can spend the money I've saved from my bikefit being done on say a new pair of shoes or a blingy bike part, which I'll certainly be able to tell. For me personally I need to be able to see the cause and effect of spending money and I never cried on my roadbike again!

Saddle pressure mapping.
I think you need to invest in the kit and offer this, plus different saddles=to try. Not many fitters offer this service so it would set you apart from them.

Saddle pressure mapping.
I think you need to invest in the kit and offer this, plus different saddles=to try. Not many fitters offer this service so it would set you apart from them.

For mountain biking?

You move around loads plus stand up most of the time going down.

For road bikes, makes a lot of sense...

What is your current view on bike-fitting for mountain bikes?
For XC and long trail rides over natural terrain it makes sense. Gravity and Enduro not as much.

Would you have a bike fit on your mountain bike?
Yeah would love to. Been meaning to get one done for a while.

What would you like to have addressed during a bike fit?
Mainly stack/ reach/ and bar height. Saddle position for optimum pedalling too.

What components have you been curious about testing but held off on due to uncertainty that they would work for you? ( bars, pedals, saddle, bike size etc..)
The problem is that I've spend a ton of money over the years buying components that never really fit (trial and error). Would if a fit could get me in the right ballpark.

How far would you travel to get your mountain bike fit to you? (if it was going to be an awesome experience with a great outcome)
Maybe an hour or two? Perhaps longer if it was next to a great trail centre or spot for riding.

Rather than a traditional “bike fit” which, as others have said tends to focus on exact positions of hands, feet, angles of limbs etc, I think you’d be better off with some sort of custom bike setup, especially suspension.

Less of a direct “bike fit” and more a case of optimising all aspects of that bike to that person for their main style of riding.

+1

I don't think there's enough consensus on MTB fit to offer a road-style fitting service (I've had one and it was quite useful but the physiological examination brought more benefit, some of which applies to MTB but wouldn't have been picked up by a non-physio).

TBH I'm distrustful of anyone offering to have a formula for MTB fit, as I start to smell snake oil.

The post I've quoted would add more value for most riders IMO.

What components have you been curious about testing but held off on due to uncertainty that they would work for you? ( bars, pedals, saddle, bike size etc..)

If you were near trails

Suspension tuning / shockwiz rental
Variable crank lengths
Different grips
Handlebar rise
Stem lengths
Saddles

Maybe some fancy stuff like Ochain, Flexxbar etc.

Hell, even different tires - pay a deposit and pick from the tire library, get it back if you buy some

I had a bike fit for my road bike as I was getting knee pain.

The fitter set my bike up like a road racer.

He was a road racer, I commute, ride with mates and occasionally do a 130 mile ride to my in-laws.

If you are a "trail" rider would you give a "trail" fit. Delete as appropriate for however you ride?

I ride a geometron and hello Dave off road. I probably shouldn't give people bike fits as my tastes are unusual. How will you give people fits out side your area of expertise?

I'd love a fit for my mtb's so I know the fit is "right". I'm 6"4 with odd bikes. I don't think there is a "right" fit for me. I don't get pain when I ride my mtb's so I've settled for that.

What is your current view on bike-fitting for mountain bikes?

I'm not sure I'd ever do a static studio based bike fit. I think there could be value in having someone who can offer suggestions and apply them in a testable way though to address specific things e.g. this hurts when I do that, or my bike does this and I want it to do that.

I think bike fit for a mountain bike needs to take into account of the suspension setup. My full Sus bottom bracket is higher with the compression switch on for example.

Also....

I think bike set up only really needs professional assistance if you have an injury or you ride in a static position for hours on end, ie like on a road bike.

To follow on from my comment earlier:

Less of a direct “bike fit” and more a case of optimising all aspects of that bike to that person for their main style of riding.

and to pick up on something that @jamescarters wrote ^^

What components have you been curious about testing but held off on due to uncertainty that they would work for you? ( bars, pedals, saddle, bike size etc..)

I can see a (sort of) niche for a test ride environment where you can pay a certain amount to try (eg) 3 bars or 3 sets of tyres or a new wheelset or something like that with money off if you then buy said upgrade.

However I can also see that being staggeringly expensive to set up unless you have some nice sponsors because it's effectively running a bike shop with all the stock of parts in dozens of sizes required to fit it to the punters bike with the extra challenge that it then gets taken out, ridden, crashed, covered in mud etc.

It'd be like running a demo day every day!

This is fantastic!  Thank you all.  I will let the thread run a few more then sit down with a brew and start writing out some answers / ideas.

A few points to add

- I think a lot of road bike fits are done poorly as well and are far too formulaic. I believe for a bike to “fit” the rider it needs to function well with how they intend to ride their bike. Even amongst road bikes there is a huge difference between what a crit racer might want compared to a an audaxer. I see this being the same sort of challenge as being specific to the intended riding style of the person and the geometry of the bike. Enduro vs xc marathon for example.

- I've attended many bike fit courses and read many bike fitting books and articles and every time they get to the subject of mountain bikes alarm bells start ringing. Largely because the tooling and methods in traditional bike fitting just don’t translate across. The only way to do mountain bike fitting in my opinion is to build specialist testing jigs which can test things dynamically. Even then everything needs to be trail tested and tuned.

- Another huge hurdle is that you effect handling dynamics by adjusting stem length on a mountain bike a whole lot more significantly than on a road bike. So the conclusion could much more likely be “this bike has the wrong reach for you” and “this is how we compromise” whereas on a road bike we have ~40mm of adjustment in stem length on any bike so we can change it and fix all the issues quite easily. With a mountain bike you can’t do that without impacting the handling. Instead you need to buy a different frame! However it’s very common in road bike fitting that you’d leave with an idea of what ideal dimensions would be for future reference and then figure out the best compromise for right now.

- Another huge hurdle to overcome is how deliberate geometry choices made by the manufacturer may not suit the rider in from both a handling and fit perspective. Such as chainstay length or STA. All fun discussions to be had. If a Geometron or an Atherton is on the wish list then it might not need to me a hurdle at all…

Anyway, there’s a few notes. Please continue with the feedback and opinions. I haven’t been shocked or surprised by anything said yet. All very interesting and promising.

Also I love the idea of demo tyres. ( that would need demo wheels but wouldn’t be too hard to achieve for at-least the common sizes. Maybe one day!

I'd love to have basic bike fit and to be honest if it wasn't for covid kicking off I would have probably booked one locally.

However, what was putting me off was the outright cost, and the fact that if I wanted two bikes fitted, it was pretty much double the price. One bike is gravel and I was concerned they would not adapt the fitting for off-road use.

I can ride all day without noteable pain or discomfort but not convinced my knee over axle is correct, and if saddle/bars both need to come backwards, or go forwards...

I love the sound of this.

As people have said, the descending element where there are so many variables in body position for different styles of bike and rider probably make it quite subjective, within parameters - which you could give guidance on.

For long climbs, I've often thought that a look at my leg angles or whatever could make the experience much better.

MTBs are generally less adjustable, as changing stem length by 15mm or raiding stack by 10mm changes the feel as much as the fit IMO, and changing cranks is expensive - so perhaps your services would be most useful at point of sale in a well-stocked shop?

I'd need to know a lot about the bike fitter before I paid for a bike fit. Especially for MTB. Can't see me paying for your services TBH, I just don't see how some one could do it with videoing a whole ride over different terrain and adjusting your position for different sections and severity of techyness. I ride the same bike locally, and at Sherwood pines and in the Lakes or even the Alpes, how is one fit going help that?

Road/gravel fitting I get, but not MTB for me. Sorry OP I'm sure you mean well, and obvs a fair few would pay, but I reckon sale would dry up after a while.

I sort of like the idea but as echoed above, I suspect it could be better as a 'Ride Fit' rather than bike fit.

The business will be one that runs or dies by user experience and I suspect it will be a big challenge. The reason for this is that it only takes a few 'I had a bike fit and then crashed' or 'I had a bike fit and came last in my XC race' - when the fit was done for enduro riding.

Personally, I think it's one of those ideas that sounds like the missing link, but in practice there are too many variables to make it a roaring success.

I think it's the many variables that create an opportunity here - there's value in the ability to make sense of complex systems. How that's done and related to bike/MTB sales is the big Q, but if it were easy to see how the system isn't complex and there no value in the how-to.
I can see one method of answering one of my main MTB fit questions, it wouldn't solve the whole system but it's a way to quantify an important aspect of fit/handling balance. I've set it up in a simple way in the garage when looking at a gravel bike in more detail. It's probably not right for what the OP describes or would need more equipment to be 'pro' but it's not something I'm aware of bike fitters doing currently - all I'm getting at is how some new data and ability to relate it to ride variables can be useful, potentially valuable to some extent.

I think the biggest question is who is your target market (and does it exits in any scale) and then how would they find out about you?

You could have attended 100s of courses and offer an excellent service, but unless people know about you, you won't actually have any customers.

Also, if you can't actually change the stem much (handling) and can't use lay back seat posts (dropper posts), it's unclear to me what you can actually change for the fit? Homeopathic bike fit?

Sorry, very sceptical - can see you going bust in 3 months...

Jon

I think it’s a fab idea…. really really good.

Is there any merit in ‘feel’ ? e.g a rider likes their bikes in a certain feel, whereas road bikes are more set by numbers/figures ?

So my belief is that bike fitting is all about a rider learning what they are feeling. The same is true for road bikes as it is with any bike. Humans are generally pretty poor at proprioceptive awareness. This will be the difference between a pro rider and your average rider. The better bike handler has a better sub-conscious awareness of where their center of mass is and the amount of pressure they are placing onto the contact points. So in a mountain bike fit, we need to coach a rider into WHY they are feeling sketchy down steep tight tracks. It gets really obvious when you can rapidly change the bike setup and change the gradient at the same time.  On the flat nothing changes, mountain bikes are usually pretty relaxed on the flat. Change the reach 30mm on an mtb and it kind of feels the same riding along the road but going down an incline, 30mm difference in elbow and shoulder flexion/extension is massive.

You see it in a bike fit all the time. A rider doesn't realize that their bars are too far away until it is pointed out to them. Then you give them a run through the entire range: too short to too long.  Then it becomes so obvious to them because they can feel what their body is doing to compensate.

So yes - 100% feel has a lot of merit. As long as the original benchmark has been forgotten and the rider is only focused on what they are feeling right now.   For example; If you had a 70mm stem and it was too long for you but you'd got used to it, a 60mm stem will feel short. I guarantee that if you then went from a 30mm stem to a 60mm stem ( and your body needs a 50mm stem) then the 60mm will then feel way too long. The task of a bike fitter is the properly test and compare to determine which length is in fact right for you so that we can corroborate your feelings with our observations. When you say this "feels right" we should be able to observe and explain why either side of right (60 & 40 in this example) feels wrong.

Yes, the job would be seen as a nightmare by some!  Bike fitting in general is viewed by bike shop staff as a nightmare. Everyone is unique and that is what makes it a challenge and challenges are fun.

The Atherton bikes offer custom geometry and loads of sizes which is amaazing  but the fit calculator that decided which bike is best for you is still based on an algorithm that is very 1990s roadie bike fitting. Not functional testing factoring in joint range of motion, body mass distribution, riding style, etc.]

I'm with footflaps

I think your target market is tiny and establishing a reputation is going to be nearly impossible.  How much do you intend to charge?  Are you going to travel to folk or expect them to travel to you?

Too much of "bikefit" is subjective anyway even more so on an MTB

TBH, looking at some of the crap spouted on this (and other) foras about bike fit, it should be money for old rope.

BUT, most people don't really seem to care. Being uncomfortable is "normal" on a bike, so they just accept it.

It's an fascinating topic and whilst I think it sounds interesting I question how open MTBers would be to some changes.

As mentioned previously, the main adjustments made to a road bike fit are with the seatpost, saddle, bars and stem (and crank length). All those things are more difficult on an MTB.

Your seatpost will be a dropper so you can't change it for another with different set-back. Saddle could be changed, but you don't have much room for movement there.

Bars is doable, though a lot of MTBers have some strong views on width already, you could look at rise and sweep though. Stems really affect handling so suggesting someone put a 90mm stem on instead of their current 35mm may not be well received.

This is also ignoring that most fitting is done on a static bike, with an MTB suspension sag alone will have some impact too.

So my belief is that bike fitting is all about a rider learning what they are feeling.

*applause*

More of this and less of the fit formulas is what bike fitting needs.

BUT, most people don’t really seem to care. Being uncomfortable is “normal” on a bike, so they just accept it.

I'm perfectly comfy on all my bikes.  All are set up very unconventionally to give that comfort.  too much of "bike fit" is subjective IMO and also based around fashion

OP you at least seem to understand the issue. MTBs aren’t very adjustable in terms of fit.

However in think there is a market helping people get things right. A fleet of hire demo bikes would be great but expensive. Could people try the fit on a hardtail if they normally ride FS? That would save a heap of money

Loan or rental of kit would be great for example bars

suspension set up would be the first thing I’d pay for

I do wonder if you kind of need a day package. 2 hours coaching. Discussion and adjustment session. 2 hours coaching type thing

Oh and gravel fit might be an easie place to start. More adjustable and  potentially huge market. This will be a service people pay for as they change bikes