[Closed] More touring than gravel frameset options

I'd be looking closely at Spa Cycles for a new touring bike...

Bike rather than frame, but .. Pinnacle Dacite - like a crmo Arkose made for touring. £850.

Dacite

One of the flavours of Surly Trucker seems the obvious candidate, or the Spa tourer…

Pay for titanium and you could have a Van Nicholas Amazon.

Sonder Santiago perhaps?

Thanks - Spa Wayfarer frame looks good.
Surly looks probable too, but I certainly don't need a full bike or expense of ti right now (two sons getting married this year).
Any recommendations of those for one of ape like proportions (short legs long arms so I usually size up +8cm ape index)

Sonder Santiago

Added to list, thanks

I bought a Trek520 in 1993. Rode 65,000 miles on it before I retired it 23 years later. <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">The new ones look good.</span>

Currently ride a Surly Disc Trucker, purchased complete from Spa Cycles. Lovely bike that just floats along.

When comparing bikes pay attention to the the gear ratios (you can't go too low) and forks (supple steel is important - I had a Cannondale with alu forks that was like riding a jackhammer),

You definitely want disc brakes and a Brooks B17 saddle.

http://www.bespoked.cc/2019.html

When comparing bikes pay attention to the the gear ratios (you can’t go too low) and forks (supple steel is important – I had a Cannondale with alu forks that was like riding a jackhammer),

It depends a bit on the fork, cannondale certainly build them stiff! But my current commuter (Charge Plug with 38mm tyres) has an alloy fork and whilst you can percieve that it's aluminium it's not worse than carbon or steel, just different. As stiff as carbon, but more of a steel twang than carbon's damped thud.

For touring though I think the argument for steel is more that it won't fatigue and crack when subject to overloaded panniers making the frame flex all over the place.

I am just waiting for a new disc trucker to land. and Spa take some beating price wise.

You definitely want disc brakes and a Brooks B17 saddle.

B17 saddle is on the list, not totally convinced by discs yet, bitd I did 4500 fully loaded miles including 30 alpine passes with no real issues apart from overheating brakes on one switchback descent and I already have a set of very nice rim brake touring wheels. Tending towards the Wayfarer at the moment so I can change my mind later 🤔

Unfortunately not in the price bracket for bespoked or shand offerings 😕

Salsa Vaya is light touring / gravel / commute and available as frame only (however not qr at front):
https://www.bike24.de/p1313221.html?q=vaya

Or Marrakesh for full on touring (qr front and rear)
https://www.bike24.de/p1313281.html?q=marrakesh

https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/FRHOLSTEL/holdsworth-stelvio-touring-adventure-disc-frameset

Geneses Tour de Fer?

disc only though

Fearless Vulture is nice Reynolds steel frame, 100/135 QR, disc only, takes 41c with guards, 47c without, has mid fork rack mounts and is 499 for frame & fork. Delighted with mine, there's not much to compare to it for value for money.

https://www.fearlessbikes.com/vulture/

I've got one of the Planet X Stelvios linked to above, I really like it.

honourablegeorge

there’s not much to compare to it for value for money.

(obviously ignoring the TDF frame above that's also Reynolds and is reduced so it's £150 cheaper)

These are good. I bought a frameset and built it up. I like the short reach and fight stack, and the adjustable dropouts.

https://www.thelightblue.co.uk/Sport/complete-bikes

I have never entirely understood the distinction between gravel, adventure and touring but Marin have introduced some updated g/a/t bikes. I'm rather taken with Temple bikes at the moment (the paint colours!). The tour de fer frames can be had cheapish, if you don't mind last year's model. The Croix de fer seems not all that different.

The light blue are smallish I Tyre clearance, aren't they? Like about 35 w/out guards?

I have a light blue Darwin (that is black, not light blue) and it’s running 47c panaracer gravel kings with loads of room. With dropouts right back you can fit a big tyre in - a 2.25 29er.
The do an MT fork version that can take the 2.25 29er upfront too. Monster.

https://www.thelightblue.co.uk/Sport/5LB5DVM2K/Darwin-One-By-MT

I have a light blue Darwin (that

Thanks! Another possibility for my list. I may have been thinking about the Robinson?, which I think has smaller clearance.

cromolyolly

I have never entirely understood the distinction between gravel, adventure and touring...

It's really what we used to call a "bike", but then we got all these specialised types so the gravel definition is quite useful as it implies plenty clearance, so mudguards ok, it will be strong enough for luggage, and rugged enough for what used to be called rough stuff.

It’s really what we used to call a “bike”,

So it's not what you're on, it's where you are?

The gravel thing makes superficial sense but even that category seems to cover everything from a mountain bike with drop bars (vagabond?) To touring bike with fatter, but not 29er tyres. Then adventure and touring seem to mean anything you want. The tour de fer seems identical to the Croix de fer except with a curved blade fork.

That said, there aren't many in the various categories that I wouldn't take if you offered them, no matter what they are called.

They appeal to me a great deal as my heart lies with late eighties, early nineties mountain bikes, the type I would ride everywhere - road, mud, school, shops, youth hostel touring. Tough, comfy, fairly fast and fun.

Gravel bikes ‘feel’ very similar to me, but of course have decent brakes, better tyres, bigger wheels and bars that are more comfy for longer distances. I’m sold.

I've got a Surly Long Haul Trucker V brake frame and a Spa Tourer. Both with similar builds. Hard to choose between them but anything short of fully loaded camping tours I'd take the Spa. Just a touch more nimble handling

The big difference is the Spa will only talk max 700x35 with mudguards whereas the Trucker takes 700x45 with guards. Nice to have the option.

The big difference is the Spa will only talk max 700×35 with mudguards whereas the Trucker takes 700×45 with guards. Nice to have the option.

I think the Spa Wayfarer will take wider tyres than that.
Edit - 47mm with guards according to spa website

the argument for steel is more that it won’t fatigue and crack

Steel can break.

Very happy with my CAADX in touring mode, nice and stiff, and light when unloaded.

I've had discs on road bikes for 14 years, I wouldn't use anything else touring.

cromolyolly

The gravel thing makes superficial sense but even that category seems to cover everything from a mountain bike with drop bars (vagabond?) To touring bike with fatter, but not 29er tyres.

I quite like the looseness of the definition at the moment.

However my prediction is it will eventually settle down at a bike with the profile of a classic lightweight tourer and the ability to take 2" tyres for versatility on offroad surfaces.

I quite like the looseness of the definition at the moment

Yeah, it doesn't bother me much. My gravel bike is what I happen to be riding when I'm on gravel .

It only becomes a problem when someone says "I want a gravel bike" and then someone says "how about X, it's a great gravel bike" and then someone else says "that's not a gravel bike, it doesn't have/do/enough clearance for Z" and so on and so on.

I don't think you can do much better than a surly long haul trucker, great bikes. They ride better tge more weight they carry. Some touring bikes are terrible loaded up.

If you are still not sure about disc or rim brakes look at the surly troll. It's designed for both.

https://surlybikes.com/bikes/troll

Other touring frames available. You could probably find a 2nd hand frame on here with a wanted add.

https://surlybikes.com/bikes/touring

I think some older surly ogre frames have canti or disc and take 29x2.5 tyres.

FWIW - I did try a Vagabond a couple of years back but the lack of proper rear mudguard mounts and short stays & big tyres meant choice of front mech was limited & then there was the weight of the thing, for gravel I much prefer a lightweight more monstercross approach with ali frame & carbon forks (my cannondale flash alloy & carbon forks are half the weight of the Vagabond frame & forks). For now I just want some thing that will do long loaded road miles & take in a few tow paths and tracks in comfort with full mudguards & racks.
Thanks for all the advice, I have to go away & ponder geometry & disc vs vee brakes. but I think I have narrowed my choice down to Trek 520, Spa Wayferer & Surly disc or long haul trucker.

picking my new disc trucker up in the morning.

I have a very hefty ECR to shift if you fancy Dickyboy.

Thanks for the offer but I'm trying to avoid anything hefty, good luck with the disc trucker 👍

Big tyres are great. Just tried a spare pair of wheels I have with conti mountain king 2.1 (I think) and they fit in the Darwin frame. Awesome.

Dawes Super Galaxy (whole bike)
Anything from Spa Cycles
Anything from SJS Cycles

You basically want a touring frame. They've been rebranded as gravel these days of course but you want what you had before with some slightly better tyres. Cross bike without eyelets or touring bike with them. Names change, bikes don't really. That Vulture looks good value.

Disc Truckers are just spot on.

I can't fault mine, the only bike I've ever owned I can honestly say that about.
Unaffected by luggage, even if you pack stupid amounts very badly, yet fun to ride.

Mrs S has an AWOL, Spesh have stopped importing them this year but again they're genuinely excellent.
Long top tube so easy to run flat/odd bars, pretty decent off road.
Just lacks a bit of zing, even compared to the Surly.

I like the Spa frames, they really are well designed, but check limited tyre clearance on most of their models.

That Pinnacle is an amazing deal - quality and a proper touring spec, for little more than a Disc Trucker frame.

I've heard somewhere that AWOL is no more, anywhere.

What is it about Surly that makes them so good? Their marketing puts out an indie, hipster, edgy we don't GAF image but they are just a name belonging to QBP. The Fearless, Temple, Genesis all use 725 tubing, the Sonder uses 631, and are all £500 or less for a frameset. The surly seems expensive by comparison?

What is it about Surly that makes them so good

for myself as a 20 stone or bigger rider, i just find that they feel solid.
mated with a pair of handbuilt wheels, they are solid.
i have owned about 7 or 8 over the last 20 years. i swap em because i am a serial swapper, not because the bike is rubbish.

i have owned a few other tourers. dawes galaxy, genesis tdf and a jamis aurora. the last 2 in the last 18 months.
non feel as solid as a trucker.

that is my reason for choosing surly bikes.

What is it about Surly that makes them so good?

I've heard that they generate their own gravity field, which can't be a bad thing! Have only hefted one, and it did feel very solid to be fair. Also quite relaxed/long/stretched-out geometry which gives lots of long-distance stability, not to mention plenty of space for fitting luggage and bottles and things.

I’ve heard somewhere that AWOL is no more, anywhere.

Rumour has it that it has been 'replaced' by the Sequoia, a 'light tourer'*

Which leaves Specialized currently out of the heavy-duty touring league? Which reminds me, anyone ever had the pleasure of riding the original Specialized 'Expedition' tourer?

OP - if cantis are go, then any reason not to look at a retro build? A few years back I had a 1980s 531ST tourer and it was without doubt the nicest-riding road/touring bike I've ever owned or used. Massively regret selling it on. It would have easily taken 35c as many older tourers do. Mmmmm, freshly painted lugs. Must...behave.

*Anyone remember the 1980s 'Expedition'?

(Note to self, read OP twice before answering)

must be 100/135qr front and rear

Ah. Cold-setting 126mm to 135mm? Nah. Shame tho...

Have a look at the Soma Saga

*Edit

Have another look at the Soma Saga,

Also, Ridgeback Panorama Deluxe (2016, in 853 flavour) still crop up once in a while (NOS or display) One on fleabay right now, but in 50cm mode.

My Thorn Mk4 Tourer (stripped down of racks /mudguards etc) got me round the 200km Dirty Riever in comfort, and loads of gravel training miles and a few months later had a rack and was cycling Tour Camping in France. A very versatile bike.
Low gears and a good range with a triple set up.
Cantilever brakes not ideal on steep wet Singletrack , but as an all round bike it coped well and is now my commuter ,having now bought a dedicated gravel bike which, would not be suitable for proper loaded Touring.
My Wife just did a gravel Audax on her Dawes Galaxy in Yorks (also stripped down for the ride.)
40mm tyres fit on these bikes nicely.
"Touring "bike not a fashionable name but very good for a variety of riding.
I like the "menu" option of buying bikes from Thorn, and regretted not buying a heavier duty Thorn Mercury with Roholf gears, I built a lightweight one ,so was not suitable for gravel, so sold it to fund my gravel bike.

I will add the Thorn Club Tour rides nicely unladen too, in the past my old Reynolds ST Frame was v. stiff when unladen.
I have used it for winter audax rides too!!

I max out at 14st (nearer 13) when fit so I'm not after anything too hefty or sturdy, also I am a bit like Mr tickle with long arms & torso, so anything verging on short reach is not for me (soma saga?). I currently have an old sirrus with drop bars & 9sp triple road groupset, but it won't take wide enough tyres & mudguards to make it comfortable or tow path suitable. I think the Spa Wayfarer is best option so I can keep the disc/vee brake option alive. Just need to work out sizing now...

picked my new trucker up today.
had a good look at all the spa model whilst waiting for my pedals fitting.
fantastic looking bikes, in all the guises.

spa is a touring cyclist heaven for gear and kit

Ended up seeing sense on the disc brake front and bought me a 2nd hand Awol frame about 600g lighter than my vagabond was (mainly skinnier forks) full length cable outers, proper mudguard fittings and will still take up to 50mm tyres albeit without mudguards 👍