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Hi. I'm currently running Cotic's Calver bars on my Solaris. They are 780 wide, 5 degrees up and 9 back, with 25mm rise. I am finding that I'm getting a little bit of ache in my hands after riding for a while and I wonder if I could do with a bar with more rise and/or sweep? All spacers are under the stem and I'm running DMR Deathgrips (which I've used for years.)
Being frugal at the minute means I can't buy several bars or grips to see what works sadly, so I was wondering about something like a nUkeproof bar with 38mm of rise. Or would it be worth jumpimg to something with 50mm? I ride mainly local trails and FoD, and nothing vaguely extreme!
I made the move from 30mm RF carbon, to 38mm then 50mm Burgtec Ride Highs in an effort to manage similar, worked for me. There's a few pairs of the Burgtecs knocking about 2nd hand that you could try, It's a 50/50 if you step to 38mm or leap to 50mm that it'll pay off. I guess being open to the increase in height might require a change to your riding style to ensure the front wheel is suitably weighted.
For context I'm on a XL 29er and 6'3.
I went to spank vibrocore bars. Not because of the "magic" foam inside but because they were cheapish, 50mm ride and the sweep I wanted.
I went to the same bars on my other mtb's because they fit my hand better. The other two hand long enough steerers that they got 30mm rise instead.of 50mm
The 50mm rise really helped my position and hand pain
Hmm complicated one!
Ultimately it’s all to do with your position on the bike. That is a combination of lots of things. Pain in the neck and shoulders might typically be associated with a low front end, but hands could be lots of things. Might be the rotation of your body caused by other things.
If you want to avoid any outlay at all (and apologies in advance if you have tried these!).
1) try rotating your current bar so it meets your hands at a different angle. It might also raise the grip height slightly.
2) try rotating your brake levers so that they fall naturally to your fingers rather than you having to rotate your hand to reach them.
3) is there room for another spacer under your stem? Bear in mind it is OK to have your stem 5mm above the top of the steerer.
4) is your saddle height optimal? Raising your front end is one thing but maybe your saddle could be lower? Same effect.
5) you are generally quite mobile over your bike (unlike a road bike) so it might not be your bar height. It might be your reach. Have your tried sliding your saddle forward.
6) changing your grips to something softer is cheaper and might work equally.
If all of this fails then maybe it is time to try a higher bar, but don’t rule out the things you can do for free first!
High rise bars FTW. 38mm rise, at least.
I would play with the rotation a bit first.
I got almost instant wrist and hand pain after a stem swap. Rotating the bars (quite a lot) cured it. Then swapped the stem back and had to tweak it back to nearer where I started.
Ends of the bar up and forward for me (I.e. forward rotation).
I'm a big advocate of high rise bars especially on LLS geometry. You gotta pump up those numbers!
I had a 40mm Fatbar on my Geometron but they got nicked. Currently got a 30mm Burgtec on the new bike. I'll go higher. Probably another Renthal as they're available in 31.8 clamp.
I’m a big advocate of high rise bars especially on LLS geometry.
Interesting if you can get the same end bar height and position with flatter bar + stem/spacers as with a higher bar is there still a difference?
Or is it just that the new LLS bikes tend to make that an impossibility so high rise is just the way of getting what's actually comfy?
Manufacturers simply don’t make headtubes long enough for unfit ageing cyclists!
The road is worse but even off road bikes are designed for racers on the whole. Young, fit, agile, flexible racers (the b##tards!).
People criticise bikes with lots of spacers, high rise bars etc but if that’s what it takes to make the thing fit, then so be it.
Road bikes have endurance bikes as an alternative but all mountain bikes are created with a similar approach to the front end.
Interesting if you can get the same end bar height and position with flatter bar + stem/spacers as with a higher bar is there still a difference?
If you go stacking up spacers on a bike with a slack head angle you're really eating into your reach number and moving your weight further behind the axle. With a bar with a higher vertical rise you can maintain the reach and keep the front end planted more easily.
Manufacturers simply don’t make headtubes long enough for unfit ageing cyclists!
This is also true but it's nothing to do with age. Headtubes are too short in general and stack numbers haven't risen in proportion to reach and wheelbase etc.
I've got about 6 handlebars here in the garage and I've retired the ones that are flat or sub 30 rise.
The longer your legs, the higher your bars need to be to get the same body position whether seated or standing. I think a lot of us fit better on modern long reach bikes with high bars.
This is all very interesting. I think I might try a 50mm rise and see how it feels. Any recommendations for decent bars at a reasonable price? I've seen some Spank ones. If I could get Renthal for sensible-ish money that would be evn better 🙂
Good bike fit article here.
But when setting up any new bike I start with a bike with a known comfortable fit and replicate that as closely as possible on the new bike.
At 6ft3 and preferring bars level with the saddle it results in using an angled stem and spacers. Not aesthetic perhaps but comfortable.
All my bikes are steel steerers so no need to worry about spacer height.
Renthal only go up to 40mm but I really like the ones I had. I have Spank 50mm on the DJ bike which were about £35 and they'd be fine on the MTB.
Edit: This is what I have, they're actually 60mm www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/spank-spoon-riser-handlebars/rp-prod173444
They'd be a nice cheap experiment.
Defo play with the angle of brake levers, especially if you like to ride with a finger or two poised. There are just so many tiny variables, all of which are discernible to a degree.
Higher and more backsweep puts your arms and back in a more natural position - best for comfort / pootling. I think most decent / fast riders would prefer lower straighter bars for handling. Its whatever compromise suits you best.
Spank vibracore are great,I've ditched carbon for these and will probably never go back
You could give these a try for 30 quid. I just got a set in 60mm rise and first impressions are good. Not tried any serious tech yet but feel promising.
Hit submit too soon 😂 I went for 40 mm rise on my Solaris, very much improved the ride.
“I think most decent / fast riders would prefer lower straighter bars for handling.”
Not anymore:
All three riders have 29” front wheels and 180mm forks. The taller two are running 40mm rise bars and quite a few spacers under the stem, the shorter rider (<5’8”) is still on 30mm rise bars.
I’m average height with long arms and short legs. I also find high rise with lots of backsweep much more comfortable. Have a pair of Spank bars on the current bike but need something with more sweep I think
if you can’t get comfortable with your current parts and decide to change your bars, i’d suggest changing to the full 50mm rise, rather than getting there in dribs and drabs.
Got pretty high bars on my fatty. More comfortable for that bike. Its quite low.
If you go stacking up spacers on a bike with a slack head angle you’re really eating into your reach number and moving your weight further behind the axle. With a bar with a higher vertical rise you can maintain the reach and keep the front end planted more easily.
Having not joined the LLS club yet and had this issue that makes a lot of sense now someone's explained it.
So the Spank bars are 40 or 60mm rise it seems. Is 60mm going to be a rise too far?
“Having not joined the LLS club yet and had this issue that makes a lot of sense now someone’s explained it.”
It isn’t really correct though - a high rise bar (rotated so the rise is vertical) and a short stem behaves the same as a low rise bar with lots of spacers under the stem and a long stem. So that higher rise bar changes the steering feel just as lengthening the stem would.
If you want more stack height then you have to give up reach. To gain 10mm of stack you lose about 5mm of reach (tan theta and all that).
“So the Spank bars are 40 or 60mm rise it seems. Is 60mm going to be a rise too far?”
How tall are you? What’s your saddle height? What size is the Solaris, which version and how long is the fork?
I have tried all sorts of bars for the same reasons as have been mentioned. I keep coming back to my Stooge Moto bars, wide, high and with more backsweep than most. Not always in stock though.
For me on my Solaris max and trek slash. Just feel great and helped solve a shoulder pain I was getting.
Highest rise version btw
I'm about 183cm, in proportion(!), bike is a Solaris Max 2020 in L. Forks are Cane Creek Helm mk2 at 130mm.
https://nsmb.com/articles/defying-convention-sqlab-12%C2%BA-and-16%C2%BA-sweep-bars/
This is the article that prompted me to try the sq lab ones...
I also use ergon ge1 Evo grips which I find way more comfy than deathgrips.
Other than XC bikes setup for XC racing there can't be many MTB's where flat bars are much use to the average rider. I've certainly not ridden one yet and believe me I've taken every opportunity to try other bikes out.
I use 50mm rise and have not been below 30mm for years. I'm not unusually tall or long limbed either. Too low at the front makes steep trails terrifying IME, like the front wheel is going to tuck under at any moment. A light front wheel, in berms/corners, can in most cases be easily countered with body movement. Whereas the further you get pushed off the back of the bike the less steering control you have. In other words I'll take a light front wheel over too low a front end all day long!
It might be your reach. Have your tried sliding your saddle forward.
I'm way out of touch with MTB fitting but it's exactly the opposite for me on the gravel and road bikes, saddle further back takes weight off the hands.
Similarly rotating the saddle nose up can assist in taking weight off hands, assuming it's still comfortable to sit on!
I’d try 50mm rise - if they’re too high you can swap some spacers about!
Yeah 12. I'd be interested in trying the 16 out of interest but that does feel a bit more experimental. I still run a few spacers under my stem to get the height I want. I'm 183 on a large Solaris max too.
Looking at the sqlabs,35mm and decent rise
I ordered some of the Sqlabs in 45mm rise, 12° sweep. They should come this week. I also ordered some Ergon GE1 Evo grips, which do look like they'll be more comfortable than the Deathgrips. More news once it's all fitted and had a test ride or two.
I’m a big advocate of high rise bars especially on LLS geometry. You gotta pump up those numbers!
I had a 40mm Fatbar on my Geometron but they got nicked. Currently got a 30mm Burgtec on the new bike. I’ll go higher. Probably another Renthal as they’re available in 31.8 clamp.
I find a 20mm rise bar on my geometron is perfect because it makes you weight the front more which you really need to be active in doing with such slack head angles. I previously put a 35mm rise one on but I found it harder to get further over the front with it, the steering felt a little less controlled because my weight was just naturally pushed a little further back. Low rise bars with LLS seems to make more sense to me.
I find a 20mm rise bar on my geometron is perfect because it makes you weight the front more which you really need to be active in doing with such slack head angles.
That's certainly the conventional way of thinking about it.
But, bikes with long reaches allow for steep seat tubes which shunt ones entire centre of mass forwards. This means you don't necessarily have to be hunched low 'pressing down' over your bars, because the weight distribution between wheels has been improved by sitting more forward.
I did some rudimentary calculations when I was speccing my custom HT a couple of years ago. My recollection was that at my saddle height (I'm 182cm) each degree of seat tube steeper moved my saddle forwards about 20mm.
Thats not an inconsequential change in weight bias to the front axle.
I ordered some of the Sqlabs in 45mm rise, 12° sweep.
I was going to suggest them, then saw you'd bought them already! Hope they do what you need, I've got them on 2 bikes now. They feel completely fine and normal to ride, but they solved some niggles in the inside of my wrists and elbows I got on longer rides.
A mate test rode my bike because he was interested in the frame. He bought the same frame, but also the bars as well because they felt so natural and comfy.
Do they do a 35mm clamp version
You dont need a low bar to weight the front of the bike because when you're descending or going fast or otherwise attacking a trail, you're standing up. You can put your weight wherever you want.
Having an extra 20 or 30mm of height at the grips doesn't tilt your whole rigid body backwards, you just bend your elbows.
For me the main advantage was comfort when seated and cruising around pedalling. It's a much nicer place to sit when my hands aren't so low down compared to the saddle.
Best to avoid carpal-tunnel syndrome…
North road/ trekking/ Dutch handlebars is a good place to begin your search:
https://www.dutchbikebits.com/north-road-handlebars
Beach cruisers are another good source of comfort handlebars. Electra, etc.
You can also try ‘Delta’ brand stem extenders and adjustable angle stems to dual in your position.
I’ll agree that the longer your legs are, in proportion to your body, the higher your handlebars need to be.
I’d actually prefer a slacker seat tube, as I tend to spend my pedalling time in the saddle (lazy-roadie style), with my glutes? doing all the work.
It was on another thread on bar height which i thought described the feeling of high versus low bars when standing brilliantly.
Low bars fells like you're being pulled forward and you're holding yourself up, you're fixed in that position. With high bars, it feels like you've got more ability to push on the bars when you want as well as being able to move your bike about more. I disagree with lower bars giving more front wheel weighty, maybe if you don't push on the bars, but with high bars i feel you can be a whole lot more deliberate with the weighting, you can get your whole body involved, so i think you can achieve greater grip with higher bars, the average grip could be lower, but think potential is higher.
I feel the same about plush versus supportive suspension, with plush, you probably have a little bit more grip most of the time, but this is the roof, with supportive suspension, you might generally have a bit less grip, but when you really want it, you can tap into a lot more.
I was surprised to see that the Stooge Moto bars haven’t been mentioned in this thread yet. I got a pair with my MK4, and though they weren’t for me ultimately (I’m short and prefer lower bars personally) they definitely do the high rise and sweep thing well and are highly regarded in the bikepacking community as good long distance bars.
Abingham. See my earlier post.
“Low bars fells like you’re being pulled forward and you’re holding yourself up, you’re fixed in that position. With high bars, it feels like you’ve got more ability to push on the bars when you want as well as being able to move your bike about more.”
Yes! And this too:
“You dont need a low bar to weight the front of the bike because when you’re descending or going fast or otherwise attacking a trail, you’re standing up. You can put your weight wherever you want.”
And you have more leverage to lift / unweight the front.
more here on bar height, might be useful for some:
Ordered the Sqlab (how are we saying that? Ess Cue Lab? Sklab?) from Tweeks Cycles on the 7th. Website said due in for despatch in 7 days, which would have been last Monday (13th). On Monday Tweeks website said due in for despatch in 46 days...
So I phoned Tweeks, and after waiting for 10 minutes as caller number 1 finally spoke to someone. They checked and said the stock was in but they were not sure why it hadn't yet been shipped. I asked why it was now showing as 46 days, and was told that was for bars ordered after mine. Hmm. Four days later I've still not heard anything, no shipping email, nada. So I call up again, 10 minutes as caller number 1 to be told "they haven't come in after all. We don't know why. We'll have to check with purchasing. They probably won't get back to you today."
Not hugely impressed to be honest. Problem is I can't see another UK supplier of Sqlab 30x bars.
They did get back to me! Stock expected on 31 March now. Quite how it got there from 13th of Feb has not been explained...
That's a pain. I got mine from Amazon I think. Worth checking there...
Bike-discount.de have them, but they have a minimum order value of €175, which I'm not even close to. So that's a plop.
Haven't seen these mentioned yet but I've got a few pairs that I rate. Only 780mm which might be a dealbreaker for some but combined with the 70mm rise they've got a nice 12deg backsweep that makes for a naturally comfy hand angle. Obviously used to be much easier to get hold of in pre-Brexit times...