[Closed] More Hope(less) crap

I'll get the hobnobs out. Hope V shimano incoming......

That's ap-pawl-ing

You probably installed the pawls incorrectly 🙂
Must admit hope bearings do not last long need to be bigger
Chris King Fanboi here they just last

Rich

boxfish wins the thread 😀

Could it be incorrect fitting if all 4 broke just 1 ride after service??

Where as my Pro 2 hubs on the hybrid are 6 years old, covered about 3000 miles of commuting in all weathers, never been serviced. I'm a big fat clumsy oaf and ride like an animal.

Of course YMMV.

Single speed is on Pro 2 as well. And that is treated even worse.

Is it even possible for the springs to fit in 'upside down'?

I serviced this bike, including the freehub, last Jan/Feb time and it's probably done the one ride a month since then......

You don't work in a bike shop do you?

Have got hope pro 2's on all my mountain bikes and on one that I sold to a mate.
The oldest ones are about 7 years old and have had no servicing done on them at all. That included a whole load of riding in mud, thetford grinding paste, woburn grinding paste and all sorts of nasty crap from the peak.
No issues on any of them. Maybe you just got unlucky

Could it be incorrect fitting if all 4 broke just 1 ride after service??

Re-read my OP please. You have the wrong end of the stick.

Is it even possible for the springs to fit in 'upside down'?

No.
They simply won't work the wrong way up.

hopeless mechanic more like

Maybe you just got unlucky

The OP, or the hub?

If you think its duff engineering send it back to hope, their backup is legendary and then you won't have to buy new springs before you flog them.

Dying to hear how fitting could cause this, theories please gentlemen.

Are they the new (thinner) springs? I used to go through them like nobody's business in mine, but the last replacements I got were the revised ones and I've not broken one since. Could just be luck mind but I'm hopeful they've fixed the issue.

FWIW, little bits of cable tie worked just as well and seemed no less durable.

Personally I have no issues with Hope hubs. The parts are easy to get and cheap enough and really they don't fail that much. The ones on my bike have done 4 - 5 thousand miles think I have replaced the bearings once.

Wash them and leave them for a month and something (pawl springs or bearings) will fail. Use it and it will be fine.

Have hope hubs on 4 bikes, 2 of them 5 years old, ridden them all iver in terrible conditions, and ive never touched any of them, and im a heavy rider.
So im very pleased with hope hubs

Never mind, Hope's AMAZING service makes up for it 😛

Mrs PP pictured earlier:
[img] [/img]

😉

Nahhh the products are also amazing in my experience.

Faults do happen though, shit times eh.

I have a very confused boner right now....

Just one more thing that zip ties can fix:

[img] [/img]

Somethings not right admittedly but I'm sure hope would happily have sent you some free springs if you'd asked before rubbishing them...

No issues on any of them. Maybe you just got unlucky

Err no. I don't think so. I'm gonna try and list all the Hope failures I've had, from memory

Only one Pro 2 set of OE bearings lasting more than a year, front bearings worst.
Broken pawl spring on mine
4 Broken pawl springs on this set
Cracked hub flange
My front hub has had the lip that retains the adaptor circlip crack off, so the circlip can't be used and the adaptor falls off when I take the wheel off

2-3 broken XC axles, the last one resulting in all sorts of mayhem inside the hub, writing it off. (And rendering me fixed wheel for a few miles) That said, XC hubs are good, easily better than Pro 2s. I think that one was a particularly bad 'Friday afternoon' hub

Mono minis that boiled after 2 hard stops in Wales (and one hard stop in Bristol) chucking me in a ditch. They needed constant fettling all the time I had them and never matched the cheap cable disc on Mrs PPs Trek. The turned me into a Magura man, so they served their purpose.

A snapped seat QR on my Inbred (My brother had the same happen) which Brant kindly replaced for free with an On One CNC QR which is still going strong over 5 years later.

Bad Luck? Really?

Somethings not right admittedly but I'm sure hope would happily have sent you some free springs if you'd asked before rubbishing them...

I've already got some spares after mine failed.

Anybody want to buy these wheels? I'll flog em when I've got the chance to build her some new ones. If you love Hope stuff, put yet money where her mouth is!

acer2012 - loving those Hope Team Green cable ties.

I have a some old Hope XC hubs and some Hope Bulb hubs and all have been running for years with no new freehubs and no new bearings. I do hear more woes for Pro II's but dont see any rush to replace mine.

How much? Seeing as theyre crap 😉

I'm more than happy with all my Hope gear and the service from Hope.
All four of my MTBs are running Minis, years and years old and infinitely serviceable (yes I know there are better brakes out there - they fill my needs).
Likewise all running Hope hubs, not indestructible but so easy to put right if needed.

Each to their own and OPs experience is clearly different but I don't see Hope as a company built on hype, just consistently decent product and backup.

IMHO 🙂

Looking forward to flogging off my Hope SS wheelset. Dire trouble. Never ending wheel bearings needing replacing and water ingress. Got 3 Hope bottom brackets. I haven't learnt my lesson. The one I ride regulary, I have to flush the bearings of contaminated grease. New bearings recently. Just refreshed for the second time in a month , today. I ride it to work through the park FFS. It doesn't get washed. Just got to pick up my new singlespeed wheels this week. Cant wait. 2 more Hope items off my bikes....
Hope XC's are great. Pro 2's are just useless. When I first got the Pro 2's, I had problems. Spoke to Hope.
'Front wheel hub has play'
answer........' No it doesnt' .
'Rear seal wont keep water and muck out'
answer ' yes it will'

Hope 'legendary' service, I don't think so.........

I've never had any Hope stuff fail on me.

Maybe because I don't have any Hope stuff as it's not the 90's and there are many, many, very good alternatives.

I might have them off you Pete if they're not Evos!

Clearly it is bad luck as it seems a lot of people have not had issues to the extent that you have.
I think amongst the people I ride with I have heard of 1 hope hub going kaput, and that was an ancient hope bulb that had been abused.

And the brakes and QR are clearly a different issue, no experience of those.

Bad Luck? Really?

Just a polite way of saying you're a useless mechanic and a "heavy" rider. 😀

I've seen 5 pro 2's rear hubs crack open like walnut shells. All bad luck ?

[i]A snapped seat QR on my Inbred (My brother had the same happen)[/i]

I snapped my Hope QR yesterday too - it'd had only been on the bike for 5 years (and one before that for 1 year). Pathetic I tell you 🙂

Replaced with another Hope QR at the nearby LBS.

...sorry I'm late, so what did I miss. Pass over those Hob Nobs would you nobeerinthefridge

This does seem to be a bit of a phenomena. Person X uses brand Z and has no issues. Person Y uses the same products and has a nightmare.

So there are three main possibilities

Rider X rides differently to rider Y

Brand Z has variable QC

Rider Y isn't fitting the parts the same as rider X

The pawl springs are a well known issue and yet not one that I've had despite generally breaking anything that can break.

Similarly broken XC axles. Again no problem for me. Never broken one .

Snapped flanges I've experienced twice though both times on hubs used heavily for 5+ years

Boiling brakes. Again not something I've experienced despite using hope almost exclusively since 1996 on many bikes.

So in conclusion.. PP die whatever reason, Hope clearly don't get on with you so I think you're doing the right thing switching to Shimano.

sounds like a run of bad luck

My count is....
2 sets of hope minis, one from 2002 still going strong! done various alps trips all over uk etc still do 100 miles a week on my commuter

hope mono m4s been my dh brake for years(5 or 6) megavalanche, alps , races, uplifts etc

m4 evo races only had em a year but they are sublime stoppers

2 sets of Pro 2s that ive ragged through all of the above

hope QR seat lever

in all of that

I think Ive bent 2 brake levers (hope fixed 1 FOC at the megavalanche), boiled a set of minis in the alps (b4 I got better at bleeding them)
ripped a hose out [s]coming[/s]crashing down champery.
Got the old set rebuilt by hope couple of years back-feel like a new brake!
Couple of bearing changes on the hubs and been through a few pawl springs but overall they have done 1000s of miles with maybe 4 hrs servicing between them. Ill take that ratio!
wheel Qrs will last for ever I reckon.
I snapped the seat lever though- probably wouldnt buy anther one of those!

Been using Pro2's for 7 years (2 pairs) and apart from one set of bearings the only problem I had was a snapped axel that Hope replaced foc and replaced the pawls and springs while they were at it. I'm heavy and do next to no serviceing.

The answer is, stop buggering about with them. 😉

Had Hope Mono Mini's and Tech M4's, neither gave me a moments problem.

I'm going to jump to your defence here mate, lot's of people blaming you... but I know of a number of people who have had various issues with the pro11's. Bulb's and biguns used to be mega reliable but pro11's are made a lot more shoddily in my opinion. Not a patch on dt-swiss hubs, try a pair, you won't go back!

I also despise Hope brakes with a passion, unreliable and not nearly powerful enough.

Had multiple Hope hubs on different bikes, never once have I gone through a bearing, maybe I'm just lucky but then again, none of my cycling buddies have gone through bearings or pawls ether, maybe riding twice a week in all types of Scottish conditions is just to easy on them.

I like Hope but the QR seat clamps are a bit rubbish

Well I'm a right lard arse but have had absolutely no problems with Hope hubs or brakes in 15 years of using them.

Except for the XC Ti glide axle that snapped but was replaced FOC (2 Years out of warranty) & a Pro2 maxle that was replaced FOC 8 months out of warranty. No problems with brakes, ever.

So in conclusion.. PP die whatever reason,

Seems a bit harsh...

For all four springs to break looks a bit suspect to me, its no coincidence. Possibly too brittle in manufacture? They'd be in the same!e batch, so likely an issue there.

For balance, I've had... 12 Hope hubs in the last 3 years. 4 sets of spare bearings, one set of pawls and springs.

No other issues, I *used* to do a lot of riding, so they did get a lot of use.

My current pro2 evos are 20 months old, were second hand, have been ridden a lot, and are still on the first set of bearings.

Given the right circumstances Hope kit seems to last ages. Given the wrong circumstances they don't. Be interested to know what the variable factor is....

What cleaning products and grease do you use PP? How much grease was left in the freehub when you took it apart?

Itd be good to figure out the cause so it doesn't happen again on different wheels.

The new seat QR's are flimsey and don't torque up tight enough. I went back to the old ones (that hurt your hands) and they are fine.

I love the brakes - Mono Mini's, Mono M4's and Ti-6's. Only time I boiled some was the Mono Mini's one time down Snowdon so I'll let them off, Mono M4's are fine on the same descent. Once the lever get old you need a bit of loctite on the reach adjusters but I can live with that.

I know the quirks of it all and am happy with it. I think the issue may be with newer designs. Apart from the newer wheel QR's the rest of my Hope stuff is getting on for 10+ years old and plenty of it is available on ebay to cannibalise to keep them all going.

Perhaps reinvention of the wheel is eventually going to end up with a square which won't go round very well.

Mono minis that boiled after 2 hard stops in Wales (and one hard stop in Bristol) chucking me in a ditch.

Just how much do you weigh?

I like Hope but the QR seat clamps are a bit rubbish

^This

Those springs are useless - I use little pieces of high density foam tape cut to size.

Sorted.

Mono minis that boiled after 2 hard stops in Wales (and one hard stop in Bristol) chucking me in a ditch.
Just how much do you weigh?

No they didnt !

LOL @ Jamie (a long way up.............)

The thing about this forum is there's a disproportionate level of utter mincers who could make any old crap last forever. I imagine anyone rolling around on a ten year old set of Mono Mini's who finds them perfectly adequate is probably going nowhere fast.

Like people who ride Orange's.

The pro 2 springs seem pretty variable. My first set in a ss evo hub lasted less than 6 months and they sent an entire new freehub (needle bearing got trashed by the bits).

The second set / new freehub has been fine for 2 years. Same rider, riding in the same conditions. I've been inside twice to check everything is OK (a few noises today so maybe time to have another look).

Springs (leaf vs coil), seal (axial vs radial) and bearing (tiny balls vs big balls) aren't a patch on the old XC hubs - we still have one of those going strong and in regular use since 1996 (original springs and pawls, one set of bearings). "Progress" I guess (most of those things are to accommodate big diameter through axles).

It's never had much use, maybe one ride a month on average, tops

I think that's the problem with bikes in general. If you keep riding, they're fine. If you give them a chance to rust then they will do. If I leave my bike(s) unridden for any length of time, there will be stiff chain links, dodgy shifting and graunchy bearings, but riding daily this doesn't happen.

P.S. I'm also in the "no maintenance" camp with Hope hubs. I've had a couple of Pro II Evos for two years and one could use a bearing change. Before that, I had a Hope XC which was at least 9 years old and had one bearing change in that time (and no other help / servicing).

I serviced this bike, including the freehub, last Jan/Feb time and it's probably done the one ride a month since then......

Should have left them alone - mine have been fine for years (4 hubs).

jordie - Member

I like Hope but the QR seat clamps are a bit rubbish

Out of curiosity, what do you find better? Cromag seem great but heavy, Salsa are lovely when brand new then terrible once they've seen mud... Hope are never more than OK but they're consistently OK, which is better than anyone else I've tried...

Got about 4000 miles on my Pro 2 evo's - the last 750 using 2 pawl 48 point engagement. Not bust a thing yet. ('course, I've said it now..).

My experience is.

Xt hubs pitted where the open bearings got contaminated. My lbs advised me to invest in hope.

Ceramic bb is in its 7th year and 3rd bike. Well over 7000 miles including 3 months touring across Africa.

Commuter bike has ss bottom bracket. 1 year and over 1000 miles.

The bearings do get pressed out, cleaned and regressed twice a year.

1 set of pro 2 hoops 26er. Replaced bearings, springs and pawls once. Might not have needed it. 3 years old and sold to a friend. Still going strong.

1 set of 29er hope hoops and 700c wheels. Both pro 2 evo about a year old. Still going strong.

1 headset, 1 year old. Still too early to judge.

1 eternity seat post. A bit heavy but bomb proof.

Every issue I've ever known in my bike club or lbs: cracked hub, lights fail etc. Hope have just replaced or fixed with a free service.

In my opinion, they have a great reputation in customer service.

As far as I'm concerned if you use your bike, it will need to be serviced at some point. The advantage of the pro 2 wheels is they are simple and cheap to rebuild.

They are also on a lot of bikes for a reason but that means if more people have them, there will be by definition be more problems but I bet its a very small proportion!

Running decade old M4 brakes and Bulb hubs, only fluid, pads and bearings have been replaced, so I'm not complaining.

I'm also using Shimano square taper BB's, less than £20 a pop and seem to last forever.

In the three years I've had Pro 2 Evos I've had to replace the pawl springs each year as one or two have broken, this last time the new springs are slightly smaller and made of a different material so hopefully they might last longer.

Normaly I'd leave this kind of debate well alone
But I do like my hope stuff and find it last very well with limited issues
Bearings last longer than my stans hubs
Hope ceramic bb lasting very well
Brakes far more reliable than my xt or Marta ones ever where

Seat qr utter crap only beaten by the oe Spesh ones
But apart from that I don't get problems

sharkattack - Member

The thing about this forum is there's a disproportionate level of utter mincers who could make any old crap last forever. I imagine anyone rolling around on a ten year old set of Mono Mini's who finds them perfectly adequate is probably going nowhere fast.

I cannot in any way add empirical fact or proof to this, but from reading threads on this forum for the last 8 years or so it's the impression I get too.

I've ridden once with the OP years ago, and although I would disagree with his previously stated opinions regarding cup'n'cone vs cartridge bearings (from recollection), I'm pretty sure he knows how to maintain a Hope hub. I've had zero problems with Hope BBs, old and new hubs and a headset that is currently in my backup hardtail, now 6 years old. Today I noisily bashed out the bearings on a nearly 9 year old Santa Cruz branded Hope XC hub. Two bearings were a bit rough, the rest were fine. I'd happily buy Hope hubs again, but wouldn't consider their brakes. I'd love it if Hope brakes came close to the power/value of Shimano's and I could get small parts spares, but they don't.

Just to add a bit of balance, I've had Shimano hubs and freewheels fail on me, along with rims from various manufacturers. The most recent failure happened to be a Hope seatpost QR.

The fact that it died at the very top of Hamsterley Forest was unfortunate. I sent it back and they replaced it, no questions asked. The new one's been fine for the last few years - can't ask for better than that.

I believe you have moncers and brake dragers confused.

My "10 year old mono minis" coped fine with france - les arcs trail addiction backcountry weekend.

Yes they might have faded but no worse than any one else in the groups brakes certainly didnt boil or pull to the bar. Probably could have stopped the fade by fitting a 180 disk up front. - spent most nights making one of the guys avids work again for the next day.

I did grow up racing downhill with 160mm closed 2s though - if you want brakes that you had to take care of that was them. Wasnt unusual to melt the piston seal completely in an sda/nps weekend at fort william.

You learnt a.how not to drag brakes though b. how to bleed them propperly

Apart from the odd failure, usually due to me abusing something, I've had no trouble with hope bits, yes they need bearings, pawls, pads and bleeding occasionally,and other moving/service parts need changing, my only real problem with Hope have been the quality of their lights recently. That said ..... the warranty is 1st class, so musn't grumble

Jamie - Member

So in conclusion.. PP die whatever reason,

Seems a bit harsh...

oh, er yes... 🙂 Autocorrect... 'die' should have been 'for'...

The thing about this forum is there's a disproportionate level of utter mincers who could make any old crap last forever.

Do you mean disproportionate for an MTB forum (which is unlikely given the number of people on other fora who talk the talk but don't walk the walk) or disproportionate in terms of MTBers (which might be true).

user-removed - Member

Just to add a bit of balance, I've had Shimano hubs and freewheels fail on me, along with rims from various manufacturers.

FWIW years ago I'd have happily said Shimano over Hope- I'm still using an Exage every day which has probably done enough miles to get to mars and back. But not convinced that today's XT would do the same. I'd expect to be replacing parts faster in my Hopes but I'd be expecting the Shimano to permanently die faster.

So, I mostly use DT Swiss, which do make Pro 2s look pretty poor, at the expense of... expense. Like, a rear hub alone costing as much as a complete set of Hope Hoops. So not the fairest comparison! I don't think I'd buy Hope hubs as a standalone but the Hoops make them a great option.

Thing is Hope have also made better hubs in the past but they got sacrificed at the altar of interchangable axles and probably 1g less weight. Nobody to blame for that but consumers.

One of the reasons I buy Hope parts is they're meant to be reliable and easy to service. I hope they aren't all suddenly going to implode, as I have brakes, hubs, bottom brackets and headsets, everything is at least a couple of years old, gets used plenty, all bearings are original and nothing has ever been regreased.

I think their seatclamp QRs are a bit rubbish though, replaced mine with a Thompson non-QR.

So actually what we've established is that Pro ll hubs are a bit gash ( nothing new there) old hope brakes were not great either ( again nothing new there, most early disc brakes were a bit hit and miss) and Hope seat QR had to be done up so tight that they would give way with boring regularity ( at the risk of sounding like a stuck record...not exactly ground breaking news)

OP, sympathies, having pricy stuff break is shit, but all of your issues could have been avoided

I have regular problems with pawl spring breaking, I keep a bag of them spare now, and check them every few months, usually have to change 1 every time I check.

I wouldn't buy them again, I would go with dt swiss or american classic in future.

I imagine anyone rolling around on a ten year old set of Mono Mini's who finds them perfectly adequate is probably going nowhere fast.

Hey!

I ride skilfully, not barging about slamming on the anchors whenever I misjudge the trail 😉

I'm not really a fan of Hope stuff. I have some Pro II's on my BFe but only because they were really cheap from Wiggle last summer. The headset on my Rune is a bit cack, the bottom bearing in particular was grinding and making nasty noises after six months. It'll be swapped for a King when I can afford it (Hope dud offer to look at it but wanted the cup as well and I dont have a 1.5 inch headset press so took it apart and cleaned it).

I used to like their brakes until they bought out their mini lever. The mini blade was too long and the mini brakes were pretty week. The M4's weren't much cop either. Since then I haven't really paid much attention to them, but some of the modern levers look really clumpy and bulky. Not too keen on the CNC look either these days.

My old Bulb hubs were ace. They lasted ages were pretty adaptable too.

I have run Shimano brakes for yonks now but it is annoying how you can't get parts for then like you can with Hope and Hayes.

Loving this thread.

It really is quite long for £2 worth of pawl springs - talk about blowing things out of proportion.

I have to agree on hope seat clamps - those aluminium bolts are what screws them.

Only once have I had Hope brakes boil on me and that was Minis (not mono minis) being dragged down an alp. They were fine once I sussed not dragging the brakes.

For the record I have had one Hope hub split and have been using hope hubs since 2001 with just occasional bearing replacement, pawl spring replacement once and no other issues.

I had more issues with my brush with Mavic Crossmax wheels.

Hope Pro2 front and rear - ~4 years old, never had bearings done, regreased them the two times I've swapped axles in the rear. Apart from that zero maintenance on them and still run spot on.

They seat and wheel QRs are rubbish though. Seize, snap etc.

I ride my hope stuff (brakes and hubs) only in the boom-gnarliest of terrain (and swinley)
Im no lightweight and travel at warp speed with no finesse if they work for me then they cant be all bad
mavic rims are shit though 😉
[img] [/img]

Do you mean disproportionate for an MTB forum (which is unlikely given the number of people on other fora who talk the talk but don't walk the walk) or disproportionate in terms of MTBers (which might be true).

A disproportionate level of mincers (given the MTB community as a whole to be pedantic, argumentative, willy waving, blowhards but possessing a generally widespread ability to actually ride bikes hard and fast) congregate on STW. This is like the retirement home of MTB forums.

We get the same things on tyre threads all the time when people will loudly evangelise their chosen tyre and then disagree when it doesn't work for someone else. Not able to envisage the gaping talent gulf between themselves and another rider.

@Kimbers

How did that end? well?

overall i think hope do some good products although some of their stuff leaves room for improvement.
over the ;ast 12 years i've owned 2 pairs of mini monos. the second od those brakes were on a bike i sold 2 years ago. the other pair were on my (stolen 9 months ago) dh bike. just before that bike got nicked i had that caliper moved to the rear of the bike and the rear caliper moved to the front. that one was a mini 6ti. in the 8 years i had those brakes...i never serviced them and they still ran perfectly.
all my bikes during that 12 year period have had hope seat clamps and none of them gave me any issues.
the products that did give me issues were the bar plugs that would constantly come loose or would never tighten regardless of which sized rubber shim went in the bar...they ended up getting flogged to friends
their head doctors are utter rubbish....the main bolt seems to be made of cheese and is prone to shearing...i went through at least 3 on the dh bike and 2 on the other bikes until i decided to revert to the good old SFN...that's my experience of hope.
i've never had their hubs or headsets so i cant comment but comparing the price they cost next to the competition i couldnt justify their purchase. my current hubs are an atomlab trailpimp rear and a WTB laser dh front. i've had these for nearly 10 years now and the only thing i've had to do was get the bearings replaced on the front hub last year. neither of them have ever been serviced ever and still run well. i've had deore hubs that have never failed and the dh bike had a ringle abbah sos on the rear and a marzocchi hub at the front. again these never got a service but still ran like they were brand new despite the abuse they got. i've always tried to go for components that are fit and forget as i never seem to have time to service them.

i think the OP has just been unlucky and for future should avoid black cats and ladders!!

Kimbers firstly.. WTF is going on with your riding position there?
Weight on the inside foot,
not leaning the bike.
you actually have all your bodyweight to the inside and your shoving the bike to your left and putting your weight on the right no wonder the wheel folded.

Hope.
used loads of there stuff.
agree QR and seatclamps are shite...
The QR's i have that are a few years old actually work loose over time and i've had a clamp fail on me.
The hope kit i do have needed maintaince (bearings, pawls, bleeding, grease and cleaning) but I'm happy with it.

Where it really excels is in the parts.
If a seal fails on a M4 it's pennies.
Go replace a seal on my current XT brakes... you CAN'T!!
whole new caliper at a cost fo £40 ish quid.

I will be swapping back to X3's with M4 calipers at some point.

Sharkattack - I'm guessing you don't fit in to the category you describe and are in fact INCREDIBLY AWESOME?