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Just heard on Radio4… reporting the sentencing of someone who caused a death with their “ebike”. Looked it up, and others were reporting it the same way back when the incident occurred. ITV features a photo on their web coverage… as you’d expect it’s an electric motorbike.
To be fair the BBC described it as an e motorcycle. What more do you want.
Not on Radio4 this evening, it was “ebike” only.
Write in to the feedback show on News24, they love this level of "I think you'll find ............" pedantry, you might even get your name read out on News24 in the middle of the day when no ones watching.
Sergeant Paul McCurrie, Lancashire Police, said: "We’re particularly interested in hearing from anyone who may have seen a dark-coloured Sur-ron e-bike, similar to the one pictured, either being ridden or stored, that matches this description."
Reporter (from an agency I expect) has picked it up from police statement.
Sub-editors at the news outlets could/should have rectified it, but standards obviously aren't what they were in my day.
As I think I said when this came up before, police and journalists will learn eventually, but it'll take a while.
https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/25204533.hadleigh-sur-ron-e-bikes-seized-police-chase/
"Two of the cyclists rode off as officers approached them, however the third "ran out of talent and came off the bike", police said.
I honestly wouldn't worry about it. Ebike for a Specialized Levo is the correct term. Ebike for a SurRon is the correct term. In the public's eyes i think this all just falls into the 2 wheels vs 4 wheels debate and now 2 wheels has more power and can hurt people. So splitting hairs over one type or the other is a bit pointless. Plus when i'm out and about on my Orbea Wild Jo Public can't tell the difference between that and my regular bike to the point that i regularly get undeserved credit for cleaning climbs.
I think the DfT understand the difference and there is plenty of tax (growth cough) from legal Ebike sales so nobody will ever ban the Spec Levo, so its all a bit pointless.
Meh, didn’t we just do this?
You’ll never change the public understanding of the term “E-bike” most people just don’t care about any distinction and as ever, if you’re explaining your losing…
Just accept that for most of the great unwashed your posh MTB is indistinguishable from a third tier drug dealers scrote-rocket and carry on with your day…
I presume this:
Write in to the feedback show on News24, they love this level of "I think you'll find ............" pedantry, you might even get your name read out on News24 in the middle of the day when no ones watching.
Was in response to this:
Not on Radio4 this evening, it was “ebike” only.
Why would anyone dismiss the truth on this topic?
Meh, didn’t we just do this?
You’ll never change the public understanding of the term “E-bike” most people just don’t care about any distinction and as ever, if you’re explaining your losing…
Just accept that for most of the great unwashed your posh MTB is indistinguishable from a third tier drug dealers scrote-rocket and carry on with your day…
Pretty much.
We've had a few Surron/Talaria accidents in Aberdeen lately and the comments on the local news FB page is just people bickering over the classification of the bike. Motorcyclists arguing it's not an electric motorcycle and gives them a bad name, cyclists arguing it's not an eBike and gives them a bad name etc.
I mean the scrotes who ride them generally give the human race a bad name....but I think it's easier for people to 'forget' about the laws when they're only ebikes i.e. bicycle, not e-motorbikes.
We nearly wiped a couple of the idiots out the other night drving home down a dark road just off the motorway, street lights but big over hangng trees so pretty dark. Luckily we were already slowing down as some ****s (which I now assume was something to do with the sur-on riders*) had parked cars on a bend (half on the footway) where there is a double solid white line in the middle of the road, then as we'd passed the cars they shot across the road in front of us. No lights, in the dark wearing all black and no helmets, one nearly came off as they scuttled off into the trees. If something had been coming the other way they have been squashed....
*Theres some shonky bits of trail one side of the road and a disused 4x4 place the other side, so reckon they came there by car.
Motorcyclists arguing it's not an electric motorcycle and gives them a bad name,
And yet in almost every case the law says they are.
The reason for differentiating is we already have plenty of people frothing about cyclists and seeing headlines about "bikes" and "cyclists" help reinforce that.
Then you have people like Ian Duncan Smith demanding new laws to crack down on cyclists whilst talking about behaviour of e-motorbikes.
Motorcyclists arguing it's not an electric motorcycle and gives them a bad name,
And yet in almost every case the law says they are.
The reason for differentiating is we already have plenty of people frothing about cyclists and seeing headlines about "bikes" and "cyclists" help reinforce that.
Then you have people like Ian Duncan Smith demanding new laws to crack down on cyclists whilst talking about behaviour of e-motorbikes.
Oh I know the difference in law and classification, I just think it will be a struggle to get the type of person who comments on Daily Heil articles and Facebook Local News pages to understand... or even care. They just want froth, the facts don't matter.
I ride pedal cycles, bicycles & motorcycles mostly they get called "bikes" I can't see it's a battle we are going to win anytime soon, the electric ones either pedal assist or electric motorbike are surely still all e-bikes in the same way.
And yet in almost every case the law says they are.
The reason for differentiating is we already have plenty of people frothing about cyclists and seeing headlines about "bikes" and "cyclists" help reinforce that.
Then you have people like Ian Duncan Smith demanding new laws to crack down on cyclists whilst talking about behaviour of e-motorbikes.
Do you refer to your mtb as a bicycle or bike?
The term Bike is closer to Motorbike than it is to Bicycle.
The term Bike is closer to Motorbike than it is to Bicycle.
And bike is closer to mountainbike than motorcycle which is the legal name used.
In terms of what I use its a mix of the two depending on a)whether it matters and b)if there is ambiguity.
If you look at news reports when referring to a motorcycle crash they will usually use "motor". Its just for e{} they dont bother distinguishing.
The bikes that we correctly call e-bikes (Specialized, Orbea, etc), the general public just see as regular mountain bikes.
When the term "e-bikes" is used, the general public think Sur-Ron (or big and fat Deliveroo bikes).
So no need for mountain bikers nor motorcyclists to worry that their reputations are being tarnished.
If it’s a pedelec then it’s an e-bike.
Once it gets beyond 15mph, it’s a moped/ motorcycle. End of. Matters not one jot whether it’s powered by gasoline, diesel, electricity or monkey spunk.
lazy journalism not to call them out for what they are.
Bearing in mind it's called road tax to most people and cyclists don't pay it. The intricacies of e bike or e motorbike are a non starter.
Really, journos should be able to distinguish the differences between two wheeled transport.
they’ll be familiar with the Highway Code by now?
Just because it has pedals, doesn’t make it a bicycle.
still a moped, but 50 mph! And learner legal to any 16 year old, back in the day.
Arguing this from a MTBers perspective isn't going to make a difference but Shirley it's in the interests of the police for the public to come to understand especially the likes of Surrons as "electric motorbikes". I can't see why they wouldn't want to make them sound (correctly) more "extreme" than e-assist bikes - and for the few buyers who're not drug dealers to realise that ownership is a bit more complex
Arguing this from a MTBers perspective isn't going to make a difference but Shirley it's in the interests of the police for the public to come to understand especially the likes of Surrons as "electric motorbikes".
Why ? The public don't care in the slightest about what is or isn't precisely defined.
Why ? The public don't care in the slightest about what is or isn't precisely defined
That is exactly why. Assuming "the authorities" want to clamp down on Surrons and even Deliveroo specials (or at least the activities undertaken by their riders) more than they do Levos, I'd have thought it's in their interests for the public to see them as different things
Once it gets beyond 15mph, it’s a moped/ motorcycle
Perfect definition! So when I just rode my ebike back down the hill from Tesco, it became a moped/motorcycle! Funny cos it was a ebike all the way there! 😀 Was not monkeyspunk powered. Unless thats what the kids call gravity these days.
According to the story I’ve just read ( https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj3l7rg1dx4o), “E-bike riders must have motors that can reach speeds of up to 15.5mph, national rules state.” 🤔
We have a group of Sur-Ron riders (don’t know what the collective noun is) who patrol our local railway paths and pop up sometimes at the local trails in the woods. Most are ok when you speak to them. The community Facebook group refers to them as “dirt bike riders”, so I think many people know the difference from a speed-limited e-bike, whatever the terminology they choose to use.
should have read “if the motor only offers assistance up to 15mph”.
i still think that the general population and the media in particular become confused at the mere sight of pedals.
@greatbeardedone well yeah, obvs.. that’s kind of the “joke”.. I really didn’t need an email 🤪
It's a losing battle, in part because e-motorbike is too long to say and the public don't understand the difference, but mainly it's easy to focus on "the scourge of bikes" in general and e-bikes/motos are the latest perceived annoyance to add to that, rather than deal with the normalised 5 deaths a day caused by motor vehicles.
More even handed than most reporting:
yes read that, the delivery drivers and other workers that rely on them for cheap transportation are a big factor, as well as the kids that use them for escapism
yes read that, the delivery drivers and other workers that rely on them for cheap transportation are a big factor, as well as the kids that use them for escapism
It's a losing battle, in part because e-motorbike is too long to say and the public don't understand the difference, but mainly it's easy to focus on "the scourge of bikes" in general and e-bikes/motos are the latest perceived annoyance to add to that, rather than deal with the normalised 5 deaths a day caused by motor vehicles.
Actually closer to 4 a day. It has reduced by a third in the last decade. We have among the safest roads in the world.
As for the e-bike annoyance. Why shouldn't people be annoyed? The vast majority of people comply with laws regarding drivers licences and insurance. So it is annoying when riders of motorbikes without licenses or insurance are mostly ignored by the police to the extent they can make a living doing food deliveries on them in city centres with the police walking past them.
Why did The Guardian put the article in their cycling section when it had very little do with actual cyling
It's a losing battle, in part because e-motorbike is too long to say
Just call them motorbikes then. If a car is in an accident they dont bother distinguishing between electric or ICE (unless implicit in the make).
e-bicycles are a special type of bicycle whereas an e-motorbike is just a motorbike.
Just call them motorbikes then. If a car is in an accident they dont bother distinguishing between electric or ICE (unless implicit in the make).
I dunno, certain corners of the media love to bash electric cars.
The vast majority of people comply with laws regarding drivers licences and insurance. So it is annoying when riders of motorbikes without licenses or insurance are mostly ignored
But many of that vast majority will routinely speed regularly, drive without glasses of the correct prescription, forget about MOTs, drive on bald tyres, drive drunk or on drugs or just hungover and over the limit. Or, of course, drive incompetently or dangerously. It's like we pick and choose which rules apply to us and which ones annoy us when other people flout them.
Why did The Guardian put the article in their cycling section when it had very little do with actual cyling
If you ride regularly in any large city then it very much is.
Food delivery riders sharing pedestrian areas, segregated cycle paths and towpaths etc riding an assortment of clearly illegal motorised bikes. Most are totally fine IME (more a danger to themselves than other people when they deign to ride on the road), but many are not and ride very heavy bikes at speeds and proximity to "actual cyclists", pedestrians and other users that would make a collision serious.
I thought the article was even-handed (after all, many of these riders are doing it because they have few other options), but this is a problem in cities.