[Closed] Scooter rider more valuable than cyclist ?

Which equivalent deliberate cyclist-ramming story are you referring to?

It's a shame these spiteful dickheads don't also get a lifetime driving ban.

I always struggle with the mental attitude of these people that they are willing to maim or potentially kill someone, over a minor issue (assuming there was nothing more to the story than the moped rider breaking the wing mirror). Even if that was done with malice, how do these people justify driving a car at someone (who is obviously going to come off pretty badly)? I wonder if they feel any remorse/regret/shame over their actions?

seems that a scooter rider gets you a longer prison sentence than a cyclist .

And in other news... Ursine faecal matter found in the woods.

Which equivalent deliberate cyclist-ramming story are you referring to?

Here's one for comparison:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2012/feb/17/driver-jailed-bus-weapon-cyclist

Not sure if the severity of injuries is taken into account in these cases. In my mind they really shouldn't be. If you intentionally ram someone with your vehicle it should be treated as attempted murder, imo.

Anyway, 10 years for a moped vs 17 months for a push bike.

If you intentionally ram someone with your vehicle it should be treated as attempted murder, imo.

If the intent can be proven then it could be. (Edit to add) But the outcome / expectation needs to be proven too, it's like punching someone who's really drunk where the intent to hurt them is obviously there but it's hard to prove it would be done with the expectation they'd die when their head hit the floor. I think that could get you manslaughter but not murder.

We have two cases on this thread where the ramming being intentional doesn't seem to be in question. The judges refer to it being intentional.

Neither one was treated as attempted murder. I can't think of any cases, except terrorism cases, where using a car as a weapon was treated as attempted murder.

^ Dunno - from Martin Porter's blog on some of these cases it seems that the prosecution would often go go for a cert verdict of Dangerous Driving over the slim chance of Manslaughter and the jury trial is often a problem in driving cases. So the charges may be based on likelihood of conviction.

But the outcome / expectation needs to be proven too, it’s like punching someone who’s really drunk where the intent to hurt them is obviously there but it’s hard to prove it would be done with the expectation they’d die when their head hit the floor.

Intentionally running someone over with your car isn't really equivalent to punching someone, I'd say it was more like stabbing someone or shooting them.

^ Dunno – from Martin Porter’s blog on some of these cases it seems that the prosecution would often go go for a cert verdict of Dangerous Driving over the slim chance of Manslaughter and the jury trial is often a problem in driving cases. So the charges may be based on likelihood of conviction.

I think that's the case for 'accidents' (even if just how accidental these accidents are is questionable). In the cases we are talking about here they are clearly using their vehicles as weapons.

Intentionally running someone over with your car isn’t really equivalent to punching someone,

I didn't mean it was the same, I meant that it's another example where the action and outcome aren't always linked in the mind of someone doing something split-second, reactive, emotional etc. And pre-meditation, intent knowing the outcome and so on comes into this I think. I'll butt out now anyway, ianal etc.

In the cases we are talking about here they are clearly using their vehicles as weapons.

At the time the CPS have to decide whether to risk someone walking free on an attempted murder/manslaughter charge or getting convicted on a lesser charge, that intent has not been proven. That's what the trial is there to determine.

It does seem crazy that there seems to be no willingness to treat a car as a weapon and take it down the criminal path, rather than treat is as a simple motoring offence. Though I daresay there's some apparently lenient sentences for stabbing and shooting people as well.

It does seem crazy that there seems to be no willingness to treat a car as a weapon and take it down the criminal path

Yes. I was rammed by a car intentionally earlier this year. The police were not interested at all in recording it as an assault.

I realise that I've got a pretty heavy vested interest here but it seemed crazy to me. If a guy had lamped me outside a pub they may have been interested but put the same angry guy in charge of a 2 ton SUV then the default action is to brush it under the carpet.

That bus driver got 17 months! Well that'll teach him! i don't think I've ever witnessed a more deliberate assault of any kind.

Hill was disqualified from driving for two-and-a-half years

That just seems like taking the piss. He should never have been legally allowed to drive again.