[Closed] Mondraker Foxy XR 2013

I might as well get a bit of ruthless advertising for the bike shop Ride-on while im at it 🙂 @RideOnBikeShop on the twitter

I'd have black rims myself, but I really like it.

Sexiest? Most definitely not (sorry). Most interesting? Maybe. Would i like a go on one? hell yeah.

How is it for climbing? I assume it's stable as hell downhill, but isn't the forward geo all about getting away with the massively slack HA and still making a bike that climbs?

Mavic don't make SX wheels in black (only ST's)- or i'd of bought those..It climbed extremely well combined with the CTD shock and talas fork- being able to wind the fork down on the travel.. I've rode the normal geo Foxy a couple of months back - Video of that lap round Lee Quarry here :-

..... Both the Foxy RR and this XR both compared very similar - Very good climber... I have to say I had more fun on the downhills than on my Giant Glory

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Oh go on .... One more pic 🙂

Certainly an award there for the most discrete chainguide ever...

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I'd say Hope are doing a bloody lovely job with their chain guides

Nice chain guide, really not sure about the bike yet though. Be good to give it a spin though.

Bike is seriously nice, not sure about that stem at all though.

Is that some kind of mudguard arrangement to stop the back end clogging?

They seem high in the front end as well as long?

I think the short stem thing looking weird is more because its different to the norm... it takes some getting use to visually wise, it is a relatively new concept

Sexiest trail bike of the year????

*stifles laughter*

The old Foxy looked pretty nice, but that new one is a travesty. I'm sure It'll ride nice enough though - I'd love a go one to see what that stem feels like.

Sexiest, definitely not, zero stem looks weird. Cool concept though, not sure how a bike that long of wheelbase would handle somewhere as twisty as my local trails, but bet it's great in bigger, steeper and more open places.

I imagine when in the horse'n'cart times, when Edwin turned to Claude and scoffed at the 'motor car' driving past.... Whilst also saying :- 'Well I wouldn't mind a try' lol

Looks like it has been beaten with the ugly stick. Hard.

I like that. I know its a zero stem but it looks like the bars are a bit high. Are you going to slam it?

And that chainguide is mint.

Wozza I'm thinking about it- rode it today like that and it felt really good- I'm gonna to play around with it a little more before I get the hacksaw out 🙂

You can cut off, but you can't cut ON.

Instead of cutting the steerer I'd get some lower rise bars first.

Is it a custom offset on the fork too? Maybe slammed with flat bars it would look a little less like it'd been in an accident 🙂

Or maybe it just rides well with a tall front end. The one Barel is riding in this video is still pretty high.

That bike is mint

Lovely bike, "Foxy" makes it sound like a woman specific version though.

So what's the zero stem and handling like?

Whilst I'd gladly own one it's far from sexy, the top tube is gopping and the stubby stem looks odd (although agreed if the forward geo turns out to actually work it might become more normal and start to look right).

the top tube is gopping

I think it's the best bit. Eye of the beholder and all that I suppose.

Keen to get a go on one sometime.

Well I've been out on mine a couple of times now , and I have to say it climbs really well , much better than I'd have though possible (and I was quite happy to tolerate it being a bit wandery ) but i think that's down to fact that it's a relatively steep ( very relative) 67 degree head angle and of course you are in reality in a very similar position to a normal longish top tubed bike - it's just there's nothing in front of the end of the top tube! - Ace down stuff, quick handling and stable in one ( i'm going to have to think about describing that a bit more ...) but i really need to sort out the rear shock setting to get it just so - More to follow shortly somewhere on the front page soon 😛

I think it looks great - very tempted by a Dune XR myself with Talas 180s for an Alps bike.

Pity you're so far away as I'd be asking for a quick spin!

How is a Zero stem without a steering damper working out for you then?

Cuz the Mondraker team riders are using them.... which tells me they probably ride like shit without them and old school Hopey steering dampers have a habit of ovalizing single crown headtubes.

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I rather like the look of the bike though.... need to have a go on one of these to see if it needs a damper or not...

Lovely bike mate! You should be very proud of your build....

It may look a bit different but Fabien knows his shit so think there is a little bit of function over form here.

Some people take the piss out of the way my Alpine 160 looks, knocked together in a garage etc.... However on the right track there are a lot of my mates who wish they had it when I'm leaving them behind. They get their own back on certain climbs though 🙂

Horses for courses fella, think you picked a great one!

All the best,

Lee.

My guess is Fabien had nothing to do with forward geometry and the Mondraker marketing department did.

Anyone care to prove me wrong?

Well I had a good conversation with him at Champery Worlds last year and he was telling me about his input on the prototypes that him and Spagnolo had been testing.

Don't get me wrong I only have the blokes word and insight and maybe it was marketing but something tells me different. Especially when you see the massive rise they both run on their Renthal Bars. They do what feels right, not what's in fashion.

Anyway, enjoy the bike mate!

Big technical changes in any field are almost never led by the marketing department, who prefer to dress up incremental changes as big changes by applying pretty graphics or fancy buzzwords...

Cesar Rojo.

Racer turned designer.

He's fast as hell still, won an ixs this year with some big names present.

It was his design.

Despite the long top tube because of the Zero stem this design isn't helping you load up the front wheel because of the amount of rise the stem adds.

The only thing this does is give your trailbike a 1200mm wheelbase (about the same length as a large V10) and at the same time make the steering really twitchy

Meaning that your handlebars get deflected easily by rocks and may cause you to more easily case jumps unless you are running 800mm wide bars. How many of you are A) Tall enough to run 800mm wide bars B) Ride places that necessitate a 140mm trail bike with a 1200mm wheelbase and 800mm wide bars. Imagine trying to use that at your local wooded trails or tight singletrack. Then out in the Alps or at Fort Bill the 140mm of travel is going to be out of it's depth.

My Mega's about as long as I'd want to go on an All-Mountain bike.

Stupid idea (unless someone brings out a decent steering damper) that never caught on the last time someone tried to do it. The fact that the mondraker team seem to be using steering dampers that don't appear to be made by Hopey speaks volumes.

Even then I wouldn't want a 1200mm wheelbase on a 140mm travel frame. The wheelbase advantage is totally lost on a bike that's meant to be a trail bike.

There you go folks, Cesar Rojo and Mondraker Bikes are officially stupid. Sad to think they could have avoided this disaster if they'd asked for advice on here.

There you go folks, Cesar Rojo and Mondraker Bikes are officially stupid. Sad to think they could have avoided this disaster if they'd asked for advice on here.

You could look at it like this; all the other bike manufacturers in the world are obviously stupid because they didn't go down this route when Gary Fisher tried it.

Obviously. 🙄

In case you hadn't noticed MXers have to use steering dampers to cope with unwanted input with these ultra short stems and they are far far heavier bikes! They even have massively wide bars as well! Now imagine dealing with a sub 30lb trail bike as opposed to a 200lb monster at 35 mph in the Alps with a Zero length stem.

But ooooh look, this is new and shiney......Fabien Barrel said it's good....he doesn't have any conflicting interests and will definitely give impartial advice about something he's paid to ride.

What Shandy said.

Bwaarp, I admire your knowledge about geo and wheelbase etc but sometimes isn't it just better to sling a leg over a bike and make a decision? I rode Five for years before getting my Alpine and at Glentress a couple of years ago there was a demo day where I got to try a Foxy, a Dune and a Cove Hummer Ti.

At the end of the day I was sold on the hummer but could not get on with either of the Mondys as the medium felt short and the large felt massive. I was happy to get my Five back as that bike worked for me. It has been ridden everywhere from Whistler to Champery and at times yes, it's been out of its depth but I liked loads of things about it and a couple of things that I didn't.

How can numbers be the be all and end all? A few years ago it was all about short top tubes and now just look at a current medium Alpine, 604mm!! I personally think it feels great, loads of stability but another guy might hate it. One thing for sure though is that zero stem on the new Foxy must have appealed to Fabien in the testing stage or he would have chinned it off.

As I said horses for courses 🙂

I want a sling over for sure but I'm not expecting anything much.

If they bring out a decent steering damper I'd be sold on a 160+ bike - I just don't see the point of it on a 140mm trail bike. I want a 140mm for tight technical singletrack with drops, bit's of steep interspersed with lowish speed jumps etc - not hooning down steep descents which a 1200mm wheelbase is suited for.

1170 is the maximum wheelbase length I could handle at 6 foot for UK riding. Despite the short stem it's still going to have the turning circle of a Harley.

bwaarp, you do realise Fabien Barel is also an engineer, not just an ex-pro DHer?

Yup, I still think it's a marketing ploy designed to try to give Mondraker a theoretical edge in the marketplace at a time when the world economy is being squeezed hard. Did you guys even take note of the steering damper on the race bike I posted earlier?

As Fabien Barrel is a pro racer I'd also go as far to say that his judgement as to what the public needs and wants is going to be impaired. He's fit and strong and an excellent rider and has access to factory tech such as steering dampers - he can probably muscle these bikes through tight technical sections through ability and strength - they probably reward a very aggressive rider that make's few mistakes. He also mostly rides in the Alps - which is much faster, more open and suited to very very long bikes with massive bars.

However hilarity will probably ensue when your average UK rider tries one. I'll state again, unless you live in an area where you can run massively wide bars like Fabien does (think 800mm as opposed to 750mm).......then I don't think you will enjoy taking this bike airborne...the stem length will leave very little room for error.

The same has been happening with superbikes for a long time - track focused beasts designed by racers that end up being a pain in the arse in the real world.

Also if I remember correctly Nico Vouilloz toyed with this concept and ended up dropping it? Although my memory could be cloudy.

Anyhow, I'll sum up what I was trying to say....a fast steering response doesn't make up for a big turning circle when riding tight trails. These characteristics are quite different.

Ooooo who doesn't love a bit of controversy before bed

You obviously have loads of personal experience of this concept 🙂 I'll leave you to it

You could look at it like this; all the other bike manufacturers in the world are obviously stupid because they didn't go down this route when Gary Fisher tried it.

This is a stupid comparison. Gary Fisher's G2 geometry did the exact opposite of Forward Geometry.

G2 Geometry shortened the cockpit, used a custom offset fork, and longer stem. This essentially kept the wheelbase and the cockpit the same, achieving nothing. Forward Geometry uses a longer TT and a 10mm long stem (effectively) to lengthen the wheelbase while keeping the cockpit the same as non XR models. It's a bold move, but it'll be interesting to see if it works.

The other issue, not really related to the ride quality, but more the ownership of the bike is that G2 geometry relied heavily on a custom fork to keep the wheelbase the same length as before. This meant your choice of fork was very limited, as you could not buy them aftermarket. No room for fork upgrades meant that you basically had to use the fork that Trek told you to. Even if you could, custom forks would be [b]very[/b] expensive. Funny how that didn't last...

I've yet to ride one of these bikes in anger, having only ridden one round a car park myself. However, having spoken to Fabien Barel and Chris Porter at the Exmoor Gravity Rally, they both seem very passionate about it.

As I said, it'll be interesting to see if it takes off, but I'm inclined to believe what the actual experts say, rather than some keyboard warrior.

I still think it's a marketing ploy designed to try to give Mondraker a theoretical edge in the marketplace at a time when the world economy is being squeezed hard

I think you think too much.

that stem looks ridiculous - thats all i can say.

Its a challenging look but I like the concept. Not been on one so I can't say whether or not I'd really like but it sounds like it should work.

Well I do have one in real space, I'm interested in what bwaarp has to say obviously , having rode mine a few times now I haven't noticed any of the issues he's described - perhaps you need a steering damper on the bigger Mondraker as they get slacker to stop it flip flopping due to head angle rather than direct mount stem , and anyway aren't all DH bikes direct mount stems anyway ? I'm sure a lot of them are already pretty much inline already with the head tube.

I'm going to ride mine a lot then make a decision how it rides. Magic heh!? 😆

Nahh they usually have 35 to 50mm offsets. Really interested to have a go on one as it's similar to a Moto setup but I'd be genuinely surprised if the steering is as slow as I'd want it with 750mm bars. I'd rather slacken a bike out to get an increased wheelbase length as the two go hand in hand for their intended use.

I'll jump ship onto a Mondraker if it does work...let us know how you have to change your riding style to suit the bike etc

I've got low rise 770 mm Renthals currently - Weird that Fab and Chris have really high front ends on there's
Which is going against a lot for trends at the moment , but I can't keep up with them! ;]

Cheers

Matt

Well, I've just spent the weekend riding a demo Foxy XR from P Yates Cycles of Stourport.

Flippin awesome.

First, some background... I've had a 2011 Foxy RR since March last year, set up with 160mm Fox 36 Talas and 70mm/720mm bars. I’ve loved it but unfortunately it cracked a couple months back. Fortunately Mondraker and Silverfish have been totally excellent in sorting the warranty and have provided me with a shiny new replacement frame. This is fortunate, because it was a very short list of frames I’d consider as alternatives to the Mondraker.

However, seeing the new XR setup, with the geometry designed for my preferred (mismatched) suspension setup had piqued my interest, and I determined to try one before building up the replacement frame
Decided the best way to compare was to ride tried and tested trails, so spent both days hammering the same Cannock Chase trails (official, and unofficial) I’ve been riding for years.

Having only ridden once in a month and being on double strength antibiotics, I didn’t expect much in terms of performance, but decided to turn on Strava half way round… and subsequently set 5 Personal Records on a variety of sections.

Sitting on it for the first time – it just felt right. Looks odd, but feels spot on. Does seem a little strange to be able to see so much of the front tyre, and you sense that your weight is in a different position front-to-back… more centred, if anything. The wheelbase is noticeably longer too, and not just from squeezing it onto the bike rack on the car, where it was longer than the last DH bike I put on there some 5 years back.

On some of the corners, I found myself a bit wider on the exit, but soon compensated, and having my weight more over the front gave me the confidence to push through the corners. Some of it may also have been down to the fatter tyres specced as standard on the XR (and the new shiny kashima coated bounce), but it really has been thought out as a complete package, and felt incredibly balanced and stable in the air and at speed.

In short - I will be putting in an order for an XR frame kit, and thinking very carefully about what parts I put on it to closely replicate the full bike spec, but to suit my more modest budget.

Can’t wait.

Can anybody comment on the RR?

Nice mini-review nick. I want to try one even more now.

wors - what do you need to know about the RR, I used to have an R.

How did you find it ? Good all rounder? How about durability etc cheers

The pivot bolts worked loose on loads of them, but normally stop when you apply the loctite that they should've done at the factory. They say this is sorted for 2012, seems better so far.

Foxy is long and low, corners unbelieveably. Only sold mine as I'd gone for a large and the TT was a bit stretched on steeper terrain. The XR would have been the perfect solution!!

QR versions were flexy, maxle rear ones acceptably stiff for me but a bit more stiffness would be nice. Some might still find them too flexy even with maxle I imagine.

Didn't crack mine (had a Dune as well), whereabouts did yours go Nick?

(They have a lifetime frame warranty BTW.)

As chakaping says - they've sorted the pivot bolt issue, by changing the hardware, and also making all bolts accessible from the non-drive side, so even if they do work loose (which they shouldn't) - you have a better chance of doing something about it.

My RR developed hairline cracks from the top rear corners of the cutout in the shock cage (by the mech mount on the drive side). I googled extensively and could only find two other mentions of similar issues - one on a Dune hire bike in the Alps, and on another Foxy somewhere. For the record, I'm 16st ish and allegedly quite hard on bikes, though I maintain I'm smooth like butter, float like a butterfly, etc etc.

I did a fair few Gravity Enduros on it, countless days in the saddle at trail centres, exploring Exmoor and even a couple of Racers Guild timed downhill practice days. So I'd say it was a great all-rounder - aided by the longer travel forks, although by the same token it was maybe a bit compromised in terms of geometry as a result - never quite being as Mondraker intended, switching between 130 and 160, not hitting the 140mm sweet spot they designed it for.

Again, this is why I'm sold on the XR - I think they know what they're doing and having that geometry designed for the 140mm/160mm travel makes it seem even more the perfect all-rounder. On the RR I'd constantly be switching between 130 and 160 for climbs/descents, whereas on the XR, only on the tightest switchback climbs did I switch to the mid setting, partly out of habit.

Bikeradar have just put up a first ride report, giving it 4.5/5:

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/gear/category/bikes/mountain/full-suspension/product/review-mondraker-foxy-xr-13-46861

I've ridden one and it made total sense for enduro style riding, ie gunning it on descents and attacking obstacles. I found it rewarded agressive riding and definitely helped carry speed.

If you want to pootle along on a trail ride, it might not work for you, but if you like to stick it to a bike, it definitely works. To all the doubters, give it a go 🙂

The thing I always wonder about forums and reviews on the internet - even reviews from actual magazine testers- is that they might be able to write a wonderfully deep and meaning article/review/opinion on the ride of any bike part or bicycle but can they actually ride a bike properly- like it was designed to be ridden... or do they just talk a good story

:- On that note I am still loving my Foxy XR - its amazing

The thing I always wonder about forums and reviews on the internet - even reviews from actual magazine testers- is that they might be able to write a wonderfully deep and meaning article/review/opinion on the ride of any bike part or bicycle but can they actually ride a bike properly- like it was designed to be ridden... or do they just talk a good story

This became an even bigger concern of mine when i went to llandegla recently. People on 160mm bikes, leaving the seat up, bottling any remotely more technical obstacle than flat tarmac. That and badly setup suspension causing people to write off a bike as rubbish.

/tangent

The discussion around short stem = faster steering response is quite interesting. I believe i'm right in thinking that wheelbase alone determines turning radius so fork length, top tube length and head angle are just factors which determine wheelbase, along with chain stay length. A longer wheelbase bike needs more steering input to turn (the front wheel)the same corner as a shorter bike.
So stem length doesn't seem to be a factor in this. But it does since your hands and arms need to move the bars, that's the steering input. If your hands are closer to you, and you don't have to reach so far away from your shoulders, you'll have more control over steering inputs. I think that's why you naturally think a shorter stem produces faster steering. It does, but only because it makes it easier for you to generate the same amount of steering input.
I looks to me that Mondraker have lengthened the wheelbase out front but haven't increased the the distance between you and the bars. This is probably why the people who have ridden the bike haven't said the steering is twitchy. What they have achieved, as pointed out on the thread is DH bike wheelbase without a 200mm fork.

Figure we might as well keep this the "Forward" thinking Foxy thread...

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I bit the bullet in January and ordered the frame - I'd been collecting parts for a month already, and having decided that the frame deserved more than just the worn out bits from my previous Foxy, went for a slew of Hope and XT kit to go with the 2012 36s (bit more beef up front than the standard 2013 34s, and £400-500 cheaper too)

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So chuffed with how it's turned out - first ride at the weekend wasn't great in all the slop, trying to avoid premature aging from Cannock sand and grit, but it still shows the same promise of speed I found on the demo bike.

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Thanks to P Yates Cycles of Stourport for the superb build, and yes I will be taking it back soon for a final trim of hose and steerer.

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P.s. if anyone fancies a Foxy without committing to a stubby stem - there's a very nice new R frame still for sale in the classifieds 🙂

And keep your eyes open for Mondraker bringing out a mid season, sub 3 grand Foxy XR build very shortly!

I notice that bwaarp, the arm chair expert, has gone quiet... What a surprise, actually riding the bike gives you a truer feel of it than looking at numbers on a sheet of paper. Who'd have thought it?!