[Closed] Mismatch In Exposure Lights Runtimes...

With my Joystick, it tends to last the ride. But the Diablo battery life is piss poor in comparison, so aye - this:

Nurse the helmet light by keeping it on low most of the time

Maxx-D on the bars and an Equinox on the helmet. Mostly I rely on the Maxx-D and the helmet light is kept off or on low, only turned up for twisty singletrack etc. The only time I've bothered with the (wee) support cell was doing the Cairngorms Loop.

This is my set up, with a Six 6 on the bars, I run the Diablo Mk10 in PGM 1, using it mainly on the middle setting, or on low for lit roads or shared paths, and high for techy stuff, the battery’s sync tigger so the indicator light shows the true level, and I’m normally at around 60-70% after 3-4 hours.

I like the Maxx D on my bars but I’m a bit underwhelmed with the Axis on the helmet - particularly run time wise.

I’d be tempted to try a Moon Vortex Pro (new version) or a Four4th Scorch next time round.

I wouldn’t want to run a seperate light and battery pack for a helmet light as you either get more weight on the helmet generally, or a trailing wire.

I had a Mk2 six-pack and a mk4 diablo. For "through the night" rides the 6 pack was fine but I got MTB batteries to make a multi-cell battery for the diablo so it could keep up at a decent output.

I've since replaced both with MTB Batteries own Lumenator & Lumen 800. The external batteries don't bother me as I usually have a frame bag and as you've noted an exposure helmet light will need a battery pack anyway if used on the decent settings.

The Lumen 800 weighs less than a comparable exposure if you can tuck the battery into a camelbak or jersey pocket. I also find the switch easier to operate with gloves on than the diablo. I also found that the myriad settings on the exposure were a bit pointless.

Added bonus is that both battery packs can be used on either light so if I only need one light I have loads of run time on hand.

I run a MaxxD on the bars and just a cheap CREE type light on my helmet with the battery (and spare) in my pack.

This way I've enough for 3 hours on full power if needed.

My riding pal uses a Diablo, and only has it on for descents.

Joystick on a low mode is adequate for me but then I don't ride fast or technical at night (or in daylight, to be fair).

Also turn it off if I don't need it, roads or fire roads. Can get 3 hours out of it comfortably.

Someone mentioned a Four4th Scorch. I got one of these cheap at the NEC bike show about 3 years ago. It's a lovely light with a nice spread rather than a focused beam. Battery died and the service and replacement from Four4th was great. Even replaced a cracked lense for free.

However you turn it on/off and toggle the brightness by touching the lense. Except it doesn't work with gloves. So when it's cold and dark I have to take a glove off to turn it on/off or alter the brightness. A physical button would be so much better.

Oh as an aside it fits in an exposure helmet mount perfectly. Find that's better than the mount it came with.

Would probably try a joystick when it eventually dies.

had an exposure Diablo, and oi just didn't get on with it. As a few other have said, run time was piss poor. However I like the lack of cables and batteries, so I went for a Lezyne Super Drive 1600. Just as bright as the Exposure, but with far better run times. And cheaper too.

I have a Strada, the run time countdown on the back is in hrs:mins and bears no resemblance to actual time or reality at all. When it gets to zero you can turn it off-on and get another 20-30 mins from it (out of approx 2hrs total life on max, approx as stated). It's been back / replaced and still does it. A % charge readout and RAG light is all you need, no idea why they use the duff timer display.

I wouldn’t want to run a seperate light and battery pack for a helmet light as you either get more weight on the helmet generally, or a trailing wire.

Yep, I think this is the crux of the helmet light issue:
*Self contained
*Bright
*Lasts ages
Pick two

I’ve since replaced both with MTB Batteries own Lumenator & Lumen 800.

Can I enquire why you moved from the 6 pack?

Those mtbbatteries ones do look interesting. Have just ordered a Moon Canopus from jejames for 129, but could get the Lumenator for the same price, but with good after sales care...... hmmm

Also can't decide between 6 pack or maxxd. Part of me think that if I'm going big and expensive then go really big and expensive, but that's a lot of light to be carrying on long days just in case.... but I guess I could just take one of the other 4 Exposures I have for just in case moments.

Hmmmm

I've had a similar dilemma. Additionally, I hate having much weight mounted on the helmet.

I decided to ditch my Diablo Sync, and replace it with the latest Joystick (MK15 iirc). My logic behind this was that the Diablo tries to give a much bigger spread of light than you (I) really need. The Joystick is much more focussed and so it doesn't waste as much light and thus battery life.

I did some experiments with a Lux meter... the Joystck gave MUCH brighter light at the distance I wanted, and so could be run on lower power. The Joystick on a 4-hour setting gives me more usable light than the Diablo on it's highest setting (0.75 hours iirc). The Diablo wastes too much light owing to it's wider spread.
This has been backed up during recent night rides.
Additionally, the Joystick is lighter and less bulky. For a bigger ride, I could add a small support cell to the Joystick to double its run-time and still only be fractionally heavier than the Diablo.

For reference, I'm not using a hugely powerful 'bar light either... just a MK10 Toro (Although I'd possibly go bigger on that next time).

So my advice would be; latest Joystick and support cell if really needed.

You can't have a bright, long lasting light without it being big/heavy. Hence the size of a Maxx D or Six Pack. Even a bikehut 1600 is too large/heavy for a lid

It's always compromised. The helmet light is only really for seeing round corners or where you turn your end when paired with a bar light. Normal lighting comes from the bar light

Until 21700 batteries become the norm over 18650 powered lights, runtime vs power on self contained lights is always going to be the issue. And even then it'll still be limiting factor eventually

Once you're at joystick type lights with a single 18650 battery, you get dimishing returns going above that (I say that as a former Diablo and current Joystick owner). The type of beam changes and so does the functionality, that is a big plus, but you don't necessarily get significantly more power over a similar amount of runtime compared with the increase in cost

Having been blown away by my Magicshine RN1500 as a helmet light and road bike light, I have got an RN3000 on it's way from China as my main MTB light. Bought from an Aliexpress seller for £75 inc. VAT and delivery.

Based on the RN1500, I'm expecting it to make MaxxD's and similar a bit of a joke.

I'll reserve full judgement until I receive the RN3000, but I think the RN1500 on the lid and an RN3000 on the bars is a mighty MTB set up for a lot less money than exposure but with some advantages:-

Cheap, reliable Garmin mount. Additional Exposure bar mounts are expensive and I've found them unreliable and sticky to release.

USB C charging with PD charging support. Also direct use as battery pack for charging other devices (again, with PD support).

Nice switch action and easy to locate on the helmet with the RN1500

Really nice balance of run time/beam pattern/brightness. On the road bike I use the RN1500 on medium setting for fast riding on dark twisty roads in the peak district... which gives 4 hours run time.

I agree with @stanley. I found that the Joystick and Axis work much better as a helmet light when paired with decent bar light.

The latest of these two will get 4hours on max out of a support cell and 4hours on mid without one. The latter is fine for me on anything other than downhill singletrack that I don’t know.

This gives me around 4 hours out of a maxxD and Joystick combo and I carry a support cell just in case.

Are you really out at night for more than 4 hours?

I ‘upgraded’ my old 400 lumen joystick to the latest Diablo, but I find the Diablo a bit heavy on my helmet. So will probably look at getting rid at some point and going back to a joystick.

@thegeneralist

I moved on from the Exposures for a few reasons:

I have a few bikes and switching mounts versus rubber bands is a faff and spare mounts are pricey.

The six pack is a massive space hogging lump on the bars.

As noted the diablo is only at its most useful with an additional battery and that implementation isn't as good as the MTB Batteries connections.

Both my exposures have let me down in heavy rain (to be fair they are getting on a bit).

In their defence I could justify changing them out because they did still have a decent resale value on ebay!

I don't regret the change to the MTB Batteries set up. For ~£170 I got the Lumenator, Lumen 800 and an uprated battery for the Lumen 800 that would also run the Lumenator for a meaningful duration so could act as a spare. In this configuration both lights lasted at least the full 12hrs on the BB200 from Dusk until I finished the next day.

FWIW I run my Maxx-D on Program 3. That gives me sufficient light and a 12/24 runtime option, depending on how many times I bump it up to the higher setting.

I decided to ditch my Diablo Sync, and replace it with the latest Joystick (MK15 iirc). My logic behind this was that the Diablo tries to give a much bigger spread of light than you (I) really need. The Joystick is much more focussed and so it doesn’t waste as much light and thus battery life.

light at the distance I wanted, and so could be run on lower power. The Joystick on a 4-hour setting gives me more usable light than the Diablo on it’s highest setting (0.75 hours iirc). The Diablo wastes too much light owing to it’s wider spread.

This gives me around 4 hours out of a maxxD and Joystick combo and I carry a support cell just in case.

Are you really out at night for more than 4 hours?

OK sounds like you are both on the same track. It was indeed the diabolo that I didn't really get. Looks like the Joystick is the answer. My Joystick is only 400lumens so not much use.

Agreed 4 hours is about right. I don't tend to do much above that that often.

The Moon Canopus arrived today. Its a real behemoth. 610g without cables and mount. 200g of that is the light itself. Seems stupid to have something heavier than a Diabolo, but without a battery!

Also, the battery pack is some humongous aluminium cased thing. I was ok with that until I read that it is only 6700mAh.the tiny Exposute batteries are half that but weigh almost nothing. Am I missing something? Are mAh not comparable? Is there some other key measure I should look at?

If this huge 700g monster only holds twice the energy of a Joystick with piggyback then its pointless.

God I feel so stupid. Got a degree in physics but can't suss this out.

Until 21700 batteries become the norm over 18650 powered lights, 

Sorry educate me. What's that all about?

Am I missing something? Are mAh not comparable? Is there some other key measure I should look at?

Yes, for battery packs don't compare mAh, compare WHr.

Power = volts X amps

The moon battery pack mAh is quoted at 7.4v, whereas the exposure is at 3.7v (essentially, exact voltage they use to calc capacity may vary slightly, but that's the gist). Need to be really careful how manufacturers quote battery pack capacity!

Sorry educate me. What’s that all about?

The vast majority of bike lights use 18650 batteries. These tend to be 2000-3400mah per cell. The moon canopus unit uses 6x 2230mah 3.7v cells. I think an exposure maxx d uses 4x2800mah ish cells roughly.

Some manufacturers (mainly magicshine in the mainstream) use 21700 batteries these days. These are physically slightly larger but have a much higher capacity per battery cell, e.g mostly 5000mah per 3.7v cell.

So, you can see lights using 21700 cells have a far higher capacity per cell. A magicshine rn1500 for example has higher max output and much higher burntime then an exposure joystick. A joystick + support cell only lasts a bit longer than an rn1500 on its own but the rn1500 is physically much smaller than the joystick and support cell.

Cheers cp. I came to the conclusion after posting that surely energy is the key thing to look at => volts x amp x time. Or indeed power x time, which would be the kilowatts hours thing you mentioned.

The moon battery is 48wh. I couldn't find the similar number for the mtbbatteries or Exposure lights, anyone know?

Edit, I guess if the voltage is 3.7 versus Moon's 7.4 then then the total energy would be half as much ( for the same mAh) and so the Moon holds twice as much energy and so the 600g weight is more bearable.

'Zat right?