[Closed] Minimum Rider protection advice for a newbie

Active safety is a lot better than passive. Think about how you are riding, try reading on technique (the Brian Lopes book is very good), and/or do a skills session. You don't need to fall off at all, and certainly not as a matter of course or frequently.

Having said the above, it depends a little bit on where you live - lots of sharp rocks will hurt you more than squidgy undergrowth.

just a helmet (sometimes) and trainers are fine. Don't get cought up in "what [i]should[/i] I wear?" go with what you're happy with.

Depends on the riding. For standard trail based riding I would say a helmet and gloves would be enough, that is certainly all I wear along with some shades or clear lense glasses. If you feel a little nervous then knee pads may be worth looking at, but are by no means essential.

For downhill I would say knee and elbow pads are a minimum, a body suit/back protector is also a good idea along with a full face helmet.

Shoes wise, for the moment (assuming you're using flat pedals) any pair of skate shoes will do the job.

rubbish advice Glen - If he rides often enough for an extended period of time he will fall off again and if he goes around with the mindset that he "shouldn't" fall off, when he does he'll more than likely be tense as **** possibly causing worse injuries. Crashing is a skill and you are a skills teacher, go brush up on your notes!

multipack of condoms, photo of chuck norris and some gaffa tape. sorted

GW you are right. I am a skills teacher. And I completely stand by by advice. Crashing is not a skill, what utter crap. Staying positive and not crashing is a skill. I don't advocate riding around thinking "don't crash" - I [i]do[/i] teach riding around making positive, assertive choices.

Yes it is! Your narrowmindedness is astounding!

Helmet - yes, gloves - cos cutting/grazing your hand will stop you riding and glasses - dirt/brambles/branches in the eye hurt.

I wouldnt bother with anything else - cuts and scratches will heal simply on legs and arms.

When you fall off, just roll with it. Dont try to protect yourself too much, just ride and relax.

Armour for DH though.

Wear whatever you think you need. I rarely wear anything other than helmet and gloves (more for comfort) - I guess it takes a while to learn your limits (I am a bit of a jessie and hate crashing, others don't seem bothered by it.)

Dont forget, not long ago we didnt even use helmets and still rode up and down Snowdon.

I always go for the 'closing the stable door after the horse has bolted' approach as it has stood me in good stead in every other aspect of my life.

So I bought some 661 ankle biters after nackering my ankle. A set of elbow pads after buggering up my elbows. Full face helmet after lying in A&E getting my face stitched up. Wrist guards after...... well.... you get the picture.

So I think you've got the right idea. I find the ankle biters good. I ride in 661 Veggie elbow pads all the time too. I rode with knee pads and full face in the alps. So I've got the lot, but put it on dependng on where I'm riding

The fall was quite silly really at the end of a 20 mile xc ride. Just biking down a heavily grassed track that I thought I knew reasonably well saw an overhanging bramble approaching went to avoid & fell off instantly as I was riding in a deep rut I didn't know was there because of the length of grass,,,,Result grazed knee hitting xbar I think & graze up shin from pedal I think. Chain locked between last cog & frame & obe confused rider 😳

If you are using flat pedals with sharp pins consider shinpads.

Helmet, gloves and glasses are the essentials for me. Then knee pads for proper rides.

I go with helmet, gloves and glasses. If I had much more than that, I doubt I'd ever get out of the house.

and/or do a skills session. You don't need to fall off at all, and certainly not as a matter of course or frequently.

14 years later I'm still doing this :o)

Don't know why you need to be so aggressive GW. Why call my advice rubbish when you yourself are saying that a helmet is all that is necessary? Why call me narrow-minded when all I said was that my view was a positive one, rather than the negative one you misinterpreted it as?

Of course you are going to get a knock every now and then, but that's different from almost willfully falling off as a matter of course. Carrying a positive frame of mind when you ride, and riding in a controlled assertive manner is a better approach (to my mind and to the way we teach). Is all. Don't see what's so controversial about that.

I wear a helmet, mainly to protect my eardrums from the constant nagging I'd get otherwise. Gloves if its cold.

Crashing is a skill

I think thats crap too.

In a crash you don't have time to think, the first you know about it is when your picking yourself up and everything hurts!

Bailing I might agree with you on, but then if you ride arround thinking "where can I abil out" you'll probably crash as well!

Helemet, gloves, glasses (google safety glasses and look for bolle ones, 5% of the cost of oakleys!).

tinas

You can learn to crash / fall in ways that hurt less. I did judo as a kid and still breakfall by reflex which means you tend to roll and bounce not go splat when crashing bikes.

Ohh, and you don't need shin pads for flat pedals, if you do you need grippier pedals and shoes first!

Burgtechs and element trainers, and my legs are mych less bloody than they were with V8's, dinaeese shin pads and karimoor aproach shoes. The pedals would always get the back of my leg!

Some slight conflicting views here.

I tend to agree with glenp on the not crashing thing. I definitely don't subscribe to the if your not crashing you're not trying hard enough school of thought.

That said for me I always wear gloves and helmet. I try to wear glasses but often find they steam up (tried all sorts, I'm just sweaty). I also have knee and elbow pads. I've come off a couple of times on ice or just not concentrating, knees and elbows are complex, often get hit in offs and stop you doing all sorts when not working. I think you need to weigh up the protection they offer vs. the comfort factor. I'm more likely to wear knee pads than my elbow pads as I really don't notice them very much (no more so than I notice my helmet).

For flats shin pads can be a good idea but as said above first look at grippier footwear. Think skate shoe, if you've money to burn go for some 5:10s, if you're broke look for some Vans in TK Maxx.

Ohh, and you don't need shin pads for flat pedals, if you do you need [s]grippier pedals and shoes first![/s]the right technique

fixed that

I wear a good helmet, change my glasses lenses from clear to mirror depending on conditions, gloves, 5-10's and most of the time elbow and knee/shin guards.

The way I see it, one crash without the arm and leg protection is going to hurt and I don't like pain! I look at guys wandering around in a trail car park nursing bloody injuries and think, why not just wear protection?

Helmet, gloves and skate shoes (they seem to grip better on flats) -
That's all you need.

Whatever pads you want if you are regularly doing high speed downhills. I've ridden for a long time padless and even my worst crashes have not really been that grim few scapes and stuff is all.

It depends. Personally, I ride without anything except gloves and open face helmet (my bag also gives my back some protection). But for the type of riding I prefer - fast forest singletrack - you don't need body armour as much as if you're into the technical rocky stuff. I am also covered in scars which would've been avoided had I worn body armour (including facial scars), but I still prefer riding without. There is an argument that elbow pads can stop you getting a "nightstick fracture" on your elbow but I've had two hard falls on exactly the vulnerable part and not broken anything. I will be taking body armour to the Alps next year but it will be minimal. Not in the UK.

You can learn to crash / fall in ways that hurt less. I did judo as a kid and still breakfall by reflex which means you tend to roll and bounce not go splat when crashing bikes.

Yes but if you're going over the handlebars on a narrow trail surrounded by trees or rocks or in an exposed situation you don't want to roll and bounce around cause you'll likely hit something that will really hurt. You want to not crash.

[i]Crashing is a skill[/i]

One I seem to have acquired almost by accident.

I wear knee pads 'cos I knackered a knee falling off.

I broke my hip too but don't wear hip pads, you have to draw the line somewhere.

I'd say keep topping up the protection until yopu feel safe but I'd go for knees over elbows as far as padding is concerned.

footy shins... if your doing through country.

My elbows always seemed to be taking the impact when falling, so I invested in a pair of cheapy MX elbow and forearm guards - they do shift around a bit but have paid for themselves on at least four occasions that I can think of.

You just lie there waiting for the pain to start, and it doesn't! Great feeling that!

glenp - Member
Don't know why you need to be so aggressive GW. Why call my advice rubbish when you yourself are saying that a helmet is all that is necessary? Why call me narrow-minded when all I said was that my view was a positive one, rather than the negative one you misinterpreted it as?

No aggression here, I believe your advice was rubbish and I'm simply stating so.
I didn't even say a helmet was necessary (I said no more than a helmet is fine).
when it comes to riding advice you seem completely blinkered by what you've learnt to teach rather than able to take on board other ideas hence my "narrowminded" comment.
like it or not crashing is part of mountainbiking, burying your head in the sand and teaching people to ride well into their comfort zone and feeding them a deluded dream that "You don't need to fall off at all" seems an extremely narrowminded way to go about things when they could actually be taught how to deal with crashes better.

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thisisnotaspoon - Member

I think thats crap too.

In a crash you don't have time to think, the first you know about it is when your picking yourself up and everything hurts!

It's not, I've crashed litteraly 1000s of times and more often than not you do have time to think during a crash, whether you have the skill, natural ability and reflexes to do something about where, how and what you are about to land on is another matter.

No aggression here, I believe your advice was rubbish and I'm simply stating so.

says the man who brought you [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/helmets-are-rubbish ]http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/helmets-are-rubbish[/url]

tamworthcrowd

Do you not think you rather missed the point that GW was making in the helmet thread? Most of the respondents did

singletardworld at it's best 😆
even though I was having a laugh there ^^ the fact that I walked away from it kinda backs up what I'm saying here 😉

I've crashed litteraly 1000s of times

what sort of riding are you doing to crash that frequently..?

even though I was having a laugh there ^^ the fact that I walked away from it kinda backs up what I'm saying here

fair point, i confused that with some other post on here a while back.
i still disagree that falling off lots is something you have to contend with and consider normal when mtbing. i ride fairly fast on the way down on all sorts of trails but i've crashed exactly twice in the last 3 years. it's those last few % of pushing to the max of what's acceptable speed on any trail that drives you into diminishing returns - yeah you could probably go 1MPH faster but you could get yourself a nice knee injury in the process that takes ages to heal.

pulls up chair to see what happens when Mr GW takes the gloves off 🙂

Crashing is part of mountain biking. Wear whatever protective kit you want. If you have a job where you cant afford to take time off with injuries go for more kit.

The skill that I think GW is talking about is knowing when it is best to be separate from the bike and when to try and ride it out.

Yeah - we've sold expensive POC knee-pads to carpet fitters who are doing little more than mincing around the Pentlands. The consequences to them of a nasty knee injury are pretty devastating though.

[b]D28boy[/b]

I had a crash about 4 weeks ago in the Alps and it's knocked my confidence a lot. I'm a newbie too. I've just bought some lightweight protective stuff (in addition to helmet/gloves/eyewear) that will go under longer gear as it gets colder. Hoping it will help my nerves and maybe save some skin next time. At the moment when I'm still in shorts and T, I feel pretty vulnerable with bare arms and knees. I got this stuff - knee pads, elbow pads and wrist wraps, all very lightweight, neoprene stuff, it's v comfortable. Will be trying it out on Sunday:

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=39369
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=39366
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=47034

I use sticky 5 10 mtb shoes on flat pedals but ride in trail runners too sometimes

I reckon there is a wee bit of 'skill' involved when it comes to falling off. When I took up snowboarding, I found that the falls were pretty unpredictable - you catch an edge (dry slope) and you're on your @rse before you know what's happening.

When you start losing it on a bike you tend to have an idea of which direction you're going to fall, and how it's going to happen. Often, you can fall in such a way as to mitigate the damage - whether it's a conscious thought process or not is debatable....

First of all, to the OP:

People will look at you like you're mad if you don't wear a helmet but aopparently the figures from the Peebles/ERI survey suggest that serious head injuries are drastically less common than serious knee injuries, even if you don't do any selection to remove facial injuries that wouldn't be prevented by a standard helmet. Obviously a serious head injury is worse than a serious knee injury but both suck.

Knees are delicate, they're exposed, they tend not to heal well and they're generally useful for riding with. So, it's hardly required but it's a pretty good idea to protect them. Especially since a set of decent pads like Kyle Straits are comfortable and unrestrictive and don't even add much heat/swear (I wore mine for a 46km ride in the south of france in august, up a 24km tour de france all-cat climb, no bother.).

Even if they never prevent a serious injury (and to pre-empt any damn fool who says "pads can't prevent injuries- yes they can and do, the physics of it are incredibly simple) they also do a great job of preventing those trivial but niggling injuries... Bash a knee off a shifter and you can ruin a ride and be off the bike and limping around for weeks, it'll get better but I'd sooner avoid it.

To the argument:

Of course crashing's a skill, or maybe we should say landing? Is anyone really going to say that everyone lands the same and there's nothing to be done to reduce the effect? Tell that to a judo instructor. Or to anyone who's ever stuck out their arms in a minor crash and broken a collarbone with the leverage.

Lee Carmichael: "Crashing happens, and it usually happens fast. You rarely have time to think "Uh oh, I better tuck my arms in. Okay, now I better roll..." It's more like -smash!- and however you're programmed to react, that's what you do".

The skill is in the programming. I tuck and roll because that's what I was trained to do. I don't think about it, I just do it, knock me over in the street and I'll do the same.

As for just not crashing, nice idea but if you're riding with any commitment and pace, on any interesting terrain, it's going to happen. I could ride in a manner that'd make crashing incredibly unlikely, we all could, but only by riding in the most pedestrian way possible on the safest trails possible. And frankly, sod that. With reward comes risk.

so is it just me that gets matrix like vision in a crash where everything slows down ?

i have crashed ALOT and it is certainly something that gets better with practice !

GW. What I mean is, we all express our opinion. But you seem determined to vehemently express your opinion of my opinion, rather than just say what you think about the topic. All I said was that you don't need to fall off as a matter of course, and it is better in my opinion and experience to remain positively minded.

Now - rather than just saying that you hold an alternative view, you had to say that I was talking rubbish and then express all kinds of opinions about me, rather than about my point as expressed.

Plus. What I said there wasn't just informed by what I have been "taught to teach". I've been mountain biking for a long time, and I know what works for me as well as for the people I teach. I also know how to catch a balance between the inevitability of the odd knock and the virtue of keeping a positive mind.

Finally. I do not think I am blinkered or unwilling to bring in new thoughts. On this topic however - I moved on some decades ago from crashing needlessly or frequently.

I tend to wear knee+shin and forearm pads for steep rocky/rooty downhills. I've been over the bars three or four times in the last few years and I've never been able to do anything about it in terms of falling correctly - it's all been over before I know what's happening. The worst one was the last one (2 weeks ago) and it was the only one when I had pads on. I severely twisted my leg and could bearly walk for about a week. I also strained my shoulder. The pads didn't benefit me in terms of these injuries! I suspect I would have got off and pushed over the rooty section in question if I'd been pad free so make of that what you will. I'll probably be off the bike for at least a month in total, more likely 2. I'll probably continue taking my pads with me in the future; whether I'll be more cautious remains to be seen.

No Terry, me too. I'm rather fond of those slow mo moments.

If you're going to type your opinion for the world to read be prepared for criticism.

Finally. I do not think I am blinkered or unwilling to bring in new thoughts. On this topic however - I moved on some decades ago from crashing needlessly or frequently.

yunki - Member

what sort of riding are you doing to crash that frequently..?

Raced DH for 15 years, and been riding BMX a lot longer.
I rarely crash riding XC (maybe 2 or 3 proper crashes a year)

How does that make any sense? Like lost people I used to crash a bit, have picked up a few knocks over the (many) years. Then I learned how to ride better and stopped falling off. On my journey to staying-on I discovered a lot of things that I wish I'd have known to start with, and that would have helped me avoid a lot, but not all, of the pain. So now I find helpful ways of imparting those lessons.

I'm always looking for new things to add to the helpful stuff, but falling off "1000's of times" doesn't sound too helpful to me.

How does that make any sense? [b]Like lost people I used to crash a bit[/b]

😯 😕

maybe you should go teach DH racers your discoveries. 🙄

I'm afraid I genuinely have no idea what the **** you're on about. I'm not trying to teach anyone DH, or make any wider point. The OP was talking about just riding a mountain bike - I was trying to be helpful. Not sure what you're trying to do.

In the UK I crash rarely, and so only go with openface helmet & gloves in normal riding conditions. I might get caught out at some point, but I know the areas I ride well enough. From time to time there's the odd tumble, but nowt to worry over.

In the Alps, however, it's a different story. Much higher speeds, lots of open rocks, and a higher propensity to crach ('cos I'm nowhere near as good on a DH bike) means that I have the almost obligatory stormtrooper look. Pressure suit, full face helmet, knee pads, armoured undershorts. Despite that I still managed to rip my knee pretty badly with one pretty nasty crash.

Agree that crashing is most definitely a skill, the split second choice to roll/protect or flail wildly is a must have for any MTBer. Thinking that you'll never crash is more likely to upset/affect you more when it does happen, just accept it and move on. I love to push myself when riding, to go faster, gnarlier etc..etc, that's the whole point of MTBing ...for me anyways.

D28boy, slightly OT.
Where do you ride around your area? Whitchurch yes? I've never ventured that way before. Is it all Bridleways and easy to link a loop together?

Wear what you feel comfortable with, I'm a believer that if you want to improve you will have to crash a bit. Check out dirt fundimentals where Peaty is chatting about finding your speed round a corner, he suggests to keep hitting it faster until you have a little crash then you have found your limit and can back it down a fraction. +1 to whom ever it was that said they did Judo as a kid, so did I and I find I tend to roll and avoid injury (frantically touches wood.) I'm not convinced that knee pads do too much myself, they don't protect against the injuries you really need to avoid for that you need a knee brace which is a little far out price and lack of movement wise. I'd personally borrow knee pads, elbow pads and see if you get on with them, if you do great buy them you can't have too much protection. Finally I'd also get out and ride on really wet days, push your abilities cornering and get to know what the bike feels lie when the wheels slide un-expectedly. You might fall off quite a bit but it won't hurt so much if you pick somewhere nice and soft (wet grass) and you might learn how to save yourself from some of the more mundane crashes like when the front wheel slips out.

Iain

Just bought some Tomcats after smashing my knee on a big wet slab of limestone.