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.... For clen...
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/dec/18/michael-rogers-suspended-failed-dope-test-cycling
Dodgy food, eh?
Sounds familiar.
time for saxo tinkof to find a new beef supplier
Has he been to Bertie's butcher as well? Who would have thought it, a team run by Riis getting popped for doping...
Ex-Sky, too - another team starting to lose its lustre.
Didn't he leave sky under the zero tolerance to drugs policy a couple of years back?
For a moment there I thought about Dusty Bin & then realised...
[i]
Didn't he leave sky under the zero tolerance to drugs policy a couple of years back? [/i]
No he left Sky last year during that policy but there was never an indication that he refused to sign the policy.
More money to support Bert and more chances to do his own thing may or may not have influenced his decision to leave as his contract was up.
No he left Sky last year during that policy but there was never an indication that he refused to sign the policy.
Nothing [i]stated....[/i] you are correct. But it all happened in a rush at the end of the season and there was plenty of speculation at the cause (he has been implicated in the T-Mobile Freiberg debacle and does he not have Ferrari connections somewhere in the dim and distant past?). Him posting the best 'numbers' of his career as sky road captain was also subject to much speculation...
Not for nothing has Tyler tweeted 'Karma' I would say.
Ex-Sky, too - another team starting to lose its lustre
hows that then? Teams are accountable for what their riders do after they've left? Maybe he left because Sky wouldnt let him dope? I'm not a Sky fanboi but I don't get this bashing-by-proxy.
Didn't he leave sky under the zero tolerance to drugs policy a couple of years back?
As tom says, Sky explicitly said he left for other reasons.
He has admitted to working with Ferrari "for training only" around 2006...
Sky explicitly said he left for other reasons
PR and spin. Yatesy left for 'other' reasons too. You know the same guy pictured with Motoman... But I'm sure there was nothing untoward going on there either. Right?
metalheart, never said I agreed with those "other reasons" which is why I mentioned the Ferrari connection. Yates' case in particular was laughable and IMHO undermined Sky's policy. I assume his autobio goes alongside LA's in the fiction section (and hope no one buys it).
I am ambivalent about Sky and on-the-fence about them being whiter-than-white and clean, but they are being tarnished by riders behaviour before (JTL) or after (Rogers) they rode for them.
The evidence they cheat is that cheats dont cheat when with them...not really following that tbh
Looks more like they are pretty robust in their policies and procedures to stop cheats when they ride in their team tbh.
I agree Yates was an odd choice as was the Dr in terms of zero tolerance though.
Nothing in cycling would surprise me tbh but I still hope they , and some other teams riders, are clean
worked with Ferrari Pre Team Sky (I'd say that's a clear indication of doping)
CLEAN during sky contract
rode incredibly during 2012 tour
Doped post team sky
ahem.
I think Sky made the decision to move on a few people last season with questionable backgrounds, Yates and Rodgers being obvious examples though I suspect Fletcha may have been in the same boat. Sadly, if you employ anyone who was involved in the sport before about 2008 you're going to get some people with a questionable background.
"questionable background"......mmmm
I raced as a schoolboy and junior in the late 70s and right through the 80's. I grew up with the fact that cycling was known to have a drugs culture, even at an amateur level in those days I know people who doped (I rode at a national level).
For me, even having read all the stories of the main guys who've written books in the past few years (Yates, Millar, Hamilton, Armstrong, Maertens, Voet, etc, etc), I am left with the feeling that they were as much victimes of the structure and culture of the sport rather than being cheats (yes, controversial I know).
The exception to that rule is Armstrong - it's not the fact that he cheated, it's the way he positioned himself, lied and screwed peoples lives that hits me.
As for the sport today, I believe it is much cleaner but the people involved who have links to the past will have the drug culture running through their veins, literally, and I think it's almost inevitable that they will offer "help and advice" to people in their charge......these days, anyone found guilty must be punished harshly if this is going to change....I like both Rogers and JTL but I'm afraid that today we should have zero tolerance if found guilty.....
Team Sky's policies are to be applauded in my view, and it's only be breaking the ties I mention above that they can/will maintain the progress they appear to be making in the sport.....
Going a tad OT, I do wonder why the fixation is with doping in cycling, I would suggest (wholey without evidence mind) that most sports at elite level have a drug problem of some variety.
lunge - I agree
Always amuses me when you see a rugby player go off and a comment is made along the lines of "with some treatment and an injection, he'll be ok in a week" - an injection of what exactly????
A while back I posted a (very quick) breakdown of the UK anti-doping banned/suspended list. Cycling really isn't the problem at least in the UK.
Spoke to Mick Rogers in Paris after the tour in 2012, really nice guy had a good laugh with me & my mates, no way is he a doper.
When are they testing 2012 samples for AICAR?
Team Sky's policies are to be applauded in my view, and it's only be breaking the ties I mention above that they can/will maintain the progress they appear to be making in the sport.....
Flippin bang on.
velocipede, let me start another thread to discuss.
Spoke to Mick Rogers in Paris after the tour in 2012, really nice guy had a good laugh with me & my mates, no way is he a doper.
He looked me in the eyes and told me he didn't dope - that line of defence blew up in Phil Liggett's face following Armstrong's outing
eam Sky's policies are to be applauded in my view, and it's only be breaking the ties I mention above that they can/will maintain the progress they appear to be making in the sport.....
Is Team Sky's zero tolerance approach not too hard line and pushing the problem back underground? Garmin, I think have a better approach. No doping allowed, very strict on that, but they wont sack you due to past misdemeanours.
+1 on Garmin's approach especially as there's a further stipulation that any of their riders must co-operate and be honest with anti doping authorities. I reckon it's working better than Sky's too.
Anyone who though Sean Yates wouldn't have been tainted/aware/involved in doping in some way was very naive.
[quote=nikxl said]Spoke to Mick Rogers in Paris after the tour in 2012, really nice guy had a good laugh with me & my mates, no way is he a doper.
You should offer your services to WADA - you could save them a lot of money.
velocipede - MemberAlways amuses me when you see a rugby player go off and a comment is made along the lines of "with some treatment and an injection, he'll be ok in a week" - an injection of what exactly????
Read an interesting account of an american football player's injury filled career, rugby is probably similar - very high pressure, highly physical sport.. basically the injection is all kinds of stuff, a lot of painkillers, and he's not ok in a week at all. This guy did use HGH at the end of his career too (unsuccessfully) but the rest is legal.
http://deadspin.com/my-injury-file-how-i-shot-smoked-and-screwed-my-way-1482106392
not really related to cycling other than the kind of pressures people are put under to get results.
In Rogers' defence, had he not been recently competing in China, where clenbuterol in the food chain is rife?
In Rogers' defence, had he not been recently competing in China, where clenbuterol in the food chain is rife
If its so well known that even YOU know about it then shirley Saxo Tinkof should've know about it and *steered* clear. I mean it's not like they've got previous with dodgy meat is it... oh.
So either he is a doper or he's complete idiot. the fact he hasn't been popped until now would seem to somewhat preclude the latter...
The problem with Team Sky's approach was that it was so dogmatic they ended up with people who didn't know jack shit about pro-cycling and they apparently lost a doctor to some disease on tour! They then had to bend to get people with real knowledge in and guess what? those precise people were tainted (esp Leinders and Yatesy).
Both Rodgers and Yates got caught up in the ZT *re-alignment* policy and had to go.
Garmin's approach is more realistic and pragmatic. But it still leaves them tainted (them being ex-dopers and all).
If its so well known that even YOU know about it then shirley Saxo Tinkof should've know about it and *steered* clear. I mean it's not like they've got previous with dodgy meat is it... oh.
It's so well known the Chinese Olympic Committee apparently told all their athletes to go vegetarian in the run up to London, for fear of failing a test as a rest of eating contaminated meat. Given which, you'd expect a cycling team competing there to be especially careful, more so given the problems they've had before with 'contaminated beef'.
Wada issued a warning a month ago
Good reason to go veggie IMO.
Athletes are told they are responsible for whatever they ingest, and we know from the Contador case that no amount of Clen, even a barely detectable amount that would give no discernible benefit, is allowed.
But it must be tough to check every time you eat out
Yeah, well it was you that was *coming to Rodgers defence* I was merely poking holes in that argument... 😉
EDIT: so ignorance really will be no defence if WADA have issued warnings about it. Looks like he's a doper after all, eh?
Yeah, well it was you that was *coming to Rodgers defence* I was merely poking holes in that argument...EDIT: so ignorance really will be no defence if WADA have issued warnings about it. Looks like he's a doper after all, eh?
No, no defence at all. I may not have been posting with an entirely straight face.
Ha, smiley face after post aids in recognising your intent. Just thought you were one of these cycling is clean now nuts....
😉
Oh god, no. I am willing to believe Garmin is a clean team, but that's about all I can say with any certainty.
He'll probably race under appeal for a couple of years whilst it all gets dragged through CAS. He'll help Contador to a few victories, then lose all his minor placing results when the ban gets upheld. Which will then be back dated and he'll probably only end up being banned for a few weeks that happen to coincide with the off season anyway.
He'll probably race under appeal for a couple of years whilst it all gets dragged through CAS
I think ASADA might be pretty robust about this, unlike the Spanish Federation & Contador*
Garmin, I think have a better approach. No doping allowed, very strict on that, but they wont sack you due to past misdemeanours.
Garmin might be better if their apologies/admissions for past doping weren't so empty and weak. They seem a bit closer to Saxo-Tinkoff than Sky these days.
He's gone for the [url= http://road.cc/content/news/103648-michael-rogers-says-hes-victim-food-contamination-clenbuterol-case ]Contador Defence.[/url]