Medical Certificates for Foreign Events

Hmm, I've done a few over the years and it was never checked. Sometimes with last year's photoshopped, sometimes just turned up without.

However...

I had to do it properly for my Spanish competition license (local gym had a qualified person to sign me off), ramp test, bloods etc, and I thought it was worth the money tbh.  The federation would not accept a resting ECG done by a GP, it had to be under stress.
Worth considering?

Yeah, just sign it with your left hand and carry on.

Is it for the Mega by any chance? I reckon you could get in with a Tesco receipt with note des medecins in crayon.

I guess it depends on your appetite for risk related to how you'll be insured.

incredible that anyone would forge one.

Anyway, you don't need to go to see a GP for them to ask a load of generic questions. www.sportsmedicalcertificates.com

If a licence is all that’s required BC will do a digital copy if it won’t arrive in time.
Mines overdue gain and I’m off to France at the end of the month. Mine expired in mid May but shows as valid on line.

So, lost in the post again or more likely not sent.

It's for the Marmotte. Have travel cover for non-competitive cycling, but they want a certificate as well. Form on the website.

I usually just go to a local independent doctor who does a check and signs.  He always disclaims it that it means very little in terms of pushing yourself that hard.

I do just use it as a yearly health check, and get cholesterol and bloods checked and a physical so do it for that benefit, with a side benefit of the event certificate.

I’m an NHS GP. They’re a nonsense. Go and see one of my private colleagues if you want one. Also write to the organisers and tell them that they’re wasting everyone’s time and making it harder for British competitors who have sensible doctors who don’t want to waste our time and effort on what is essentially a money spinner for French doctors.

It’s for the Marmotte. Have travel cover for non-competitive cycling, but they want a certificate as well. Form on the website.

Does the Marmotte count as non-competitive?  I'd not be surprised if an insurer suddenly decided it was if they were faced with an expensive claim.  I think the "fraudulent" self-reporting is all well until something goes wrong and the organiser is faced with an expensive bill for your rescue/recovery and wants to know who said you were healthy.

I’m an NHS GP. They’re a nonsense. Go and see one of my private colleagues if you want one.

It's interesting - I don't know if it's just because I've got to the age where people seem to drop dead unexpectedly at major events, enhanced media reporting or an actual trend but I seem to be seeing a lot more "fit" men in 30s/40s/50s dying at (half)-marathons etc.  Its probably not the best use of a hard-pressed NHS but are you really saying that clinically a well-performed assessment is not a good idea?  (Might it also be that some "fit" people, especially men, rarely see a GP and spotting some health issues might be a good idea and if this is what it takes to get you in front of the Doc?)

Also write to the organisers and tell them that they’re wasting everyone’s time and making it harder for British competitors who have sensible doctors who don’t want to waste our time and effort on what is essentially a money spinner for French doctors.

There are probably more constructive ways to spend your time.  It is not just cycling - all sort of endurance type sports require these (and its not just France although they are the main culprit).  Presumably, they are fulfilling insurance requirements, or "industry best practice" in their country so a letter from a British competitor is really not going to have any impact.  It's like me coming to your GP surgery and pointing out to you the double insulated products in your office with PAT stickers on them and it's all nonsense to make money for pat testing firms.

Its probably not the best use of a hard-pressed NHS but are you really saying that clinically a well-performed assessment is not a good idea? (Might it also be that some “fit” people, especially men, rarely see a GP and spotting some health issues might be a good idea and if this is what it takes to get you in front of the Doc?)

Yes I am, they have little to no predictive value, even stress ECGs and the like. A normal test doesn’t mean that everything is ok, an abnormal test in an asymptomatic person is more than likely a false positive.

We can reasonably predict risk levels at population level, but that’s of absolutely no predictive value to an individual.

Also there’s opportunity cost - what should we stop doing as GPs in order to make the time to do this?

Your point about people seeing a GP preventatively - popular with the public and politicians - not much evidence that it does much in real life.

Keep an eye on your resting (relaxed!) blood pressure, stop smoking if you do, try and eat a balanced diet and be as active as you can be in a variety of ways. If you have a family history that worries you then book in to have a chat with us about it. At some point when you need a blood test ask us to tick the lipids box too, if we haven’t already. Be aware of changes in your boobs or bollocks, or urine flow (if you have a prostate). If you have any symptoms that worry you pop in and see us - it’s usually ok to wait a few weeks for an appointment as often things get better by themselves. If you think it’s an emergency and you can’t get an appointment then it’s ok to go to A&E.

I think thats a little harsh.  some preventative health checks seem to have value ( mammograms, bowel cancer screening?).  However I do know the "worried well" waste GP time and some testing is useless and also these medical certificates are not much cop

I cannot believe folk forging these certificates tho.  all fine and well until something goes wrong then a whole world of pain

Interesting about mammograms. The evidence for mammograms saving lives is marginal at best. If the mammography program was piloted today it likely wouldn’t progress past the pilot stage. The reason that we continue to do it is mostly because the political cost of abolishing it would be too high.

Cervical screening probably saves some lives, however that’s at quite a large opportunity cost, and it’s likely to be made redundant by the vaccination program.

You’re right about the bowel screening program. Also the abdominal aneurysm screening program. But national screening programs aren’t the same as a “preventative” appointment with a GP.

We had this recently in my practice. Patient emailed us a copy of his certificate to be signed. He tells us he’s training for the marmotte. Was surprised when we declined. Apparently his mate’s gp in the next village signed it no bother. His mate’s gp is the sort that gets us in bother as a profession by working for free (aka wasting nhs resources).
I remember the plaque in the cobbles at the top of some hill in Belgium- forget which one - maybe kwaremont? That I saw back in 2018 commemorating the 40 something English bloke who died during some sportive or other….

Anyway one of the docs does some sports medicine and is happy to do it in his own time and bill the patient separately. That’s up to him. Personally I’m not interested in taking the liability. The patient thinks nothing will happen. The grieving family might see it differently.

My mate is doing the marmotte this year. Asked him who signed his form. He said my wife did… he was joking. Probably one of the medics in his roadie club. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Ha ha, I also think that our colleagues who sign these things massively undercharge for it. Try asking for a letter giving a risk assessment clearance from a solicitor and see how much change you get from a grand?

It's not just for competitive sport. It's part of life here in France. Med certs needed for kids sport clubs etc etc. It is an insurance requirement. Forging will be putting the organisers at risk as well as yourself at least financially. Puts the future of events at risk: then there's  no more events. It's just the way it is. Admittedly it's not as easy in terms of logisitics to get one in the UK  as it is here, but hey ho: you want to take part: meet the entry requirements.

Whilst it's obviously fairly low priority for the NHS, it's not inapproporiate to ask a dr. to assess your suitability to put your body under stress....

its not NHS work tho to do the certificates nor is it a part of the GP contract.

I checked on my ( very good ) GPs surgery website about what they offer.  They do these certificates but charge for them.  They do some screening type stuff but a fair bit with the practice nurses ie blood pressure checks etc.  they also suggest that if yo have been not seen for 3 years or more you can come in for a check up.

c. 25 euros here  for basic one (i.e. without Dr requesting bloods, ecg's etc) as cost not met by social security. However as I know I need one every year, I often get it done when I go to see my Dr. about something else, at which point it 'kind of depends'.

The wording is to the effect of 'no indications as to why not' and is obviously at the Dr.s discretion as to what they look at/ test for. They can roll their eyes a bit :I think they are annoyed as the insurers requiring them but they know they are required and it's part of their role etc.

Hope that helps explain the way they are seen here: might help put things in perspective. Essentially it's ingrained in daily life here, I understand it's not in the UK : but like many cultural differences they have to be accepted if you want to play.

Whilst it’s obviously fairly low priority for the NHS, it’s not inapproporiate to ask a dr. to assess your suitability to put your body under stress….

It’s not a part of our job as GPs, and I don’t think people understand that.

You are welcome to ask a private doc, but as mentioned, unless there’s something obvious, which you’d know about, the answer is pretty meaningless.

i.e. I'm just trying to explain the situaton here, not offering any opinion/ view.

It's very much the job of my general practicioner here!

Usually the only reason they see me!!

It’s very much the job of my general practicioner here!

If you’re in the UK, and you’re seeing them on the NHS, I can assure you that it isn’t.

Edit - and I see you’re not in the UK.

Part of the reason that it’s tolerated by GPs in other countries is that it’s seen as an income generator.

I don't have the feeling that the way it's thought of here in France by the Dr's: They give the appearance of seeing  them as a pain driven by the insurers.

I go and see my Doctor for X and they get paid whether I pay them or the Secu pays them on my behalf: . The fee structure is fixed.  I am aware there is in generally a misunderstanding in UK about 'paying for healthcare in France'

I said 25 euros. Having checked it's 23 euros: French state rate for consultation at their cabinet / surgery.

Thanks folks, don't think I need a mammogram or prostate exam for the marmotte though?🤔

So if I get this correct, I need a cert for French box ticking? But if my insurance covers me for sportive, it doesn't really matter if I have a real or not (box ticking) cert for Marmotte anyway does it, cos I is insured anyway.

And if I spoof it cos my GP is too busy and I don't want to waste NHS time....and the phone a friend online med cert services have less idea of my fitness/general health than I do, so they're just billing me £££ for an official looking spoof

If i do use a spoof, then what is the sanction here?

If i do use a spoof, then what is the sanction here?

No insurance on the marmotte if something goes wrong.  Potential liability on the organisers.  Its fraud ( tho perhaps not prosecutable?)

Sorry to press the point,  but if my insurer says I can do sportives with no caveats, and with full knowledge of my medical history, what relevance is that to marmotte?

Their liability insurance might be void.

Anyway if you need it the link terrahawk dropped in will sort it.  He should know as hes raced every bloody where

If a BC membership is accepted are you not better giving £50 (or 90? do you need to add the full racing licence rather than provisional?) rather than to sports medical certs?

@b33k3a

You're commenting on a 2 year old thread..  and yes I could have saved myself £75 quid and used my BC membership