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I live in South Wales and a lot of my riding is steep and very muddy. In October I stuck a Maxxis Shorty 2.5 on the front of my Airdrop Edit. I was really impressed with the grip in the slop, which was a huge improvement over the DHR II I was running, and still found it adequate at trail centres.
3 months later, my local trails are even filthier, and there's no chance of getting to Afan or BPW. I'm considering moving the Shorty to the back and sticking a "true" mud tyre on the front - probably a Michelin Mud Enduro 2.25 as they're £20 off on CRC atm.
Has anyone here tried a true mud tyre for winch and plummet duty? In particular has anyone moved from a Shorty, and does the grip justify the more painful climbs?
Issue with the mud tyres, is they are terrible on harder surfaces (rock/roots).
Whats the shorty not doing ?
I normally run shorty front and back in the winter. However, in recent slop ive tried a WTB verdict Wet on a spare front wheel i have. Its mad grippy in the real deep treacle mud we get around here, but in ANYTHING harder, it's a squirmy liability.
So, i just select a front for the level of "somme' out there, whilst running a 2.5 shorty on the back all the time.
Unless you have two sets of wheels or are able to switch tyres easily and quickly i'd avoid going for a mud specific tyre, i'm not far away and have the 2.5 DD shorty's on F&R, they are horrific on smooth surfaces, but work well on the rest, so roots, rocks and the slop that we have just now, reality is when you hit the mud we have just now, the really bad stuff that's 4" or deeper, you're honestly just drifting towards the other side, or when you hit that deep wet bit that suctions the wheel in, no tyre can overcome that!
ive tried a WTB verdict Wet on a spare front wheel i have. Its mad grippy in the real deep treacle mud we get around here, but in ANYTHING harder, it’s a squirmy liability.
That's interesting. Personally I have found the 2.5in Verdict Wet more versatile than a Shorty 2.5in.
Ridiculously draggy though (tough/high grip version).
Issue with the mud tyres, is they are terrible on harder surfaces (rock/roots).
Whats the shorty not doing ?
The Shorty is doing OK. I like it. But it's still packing up and losing grip in the worst sections. Usually I'd leave them on and hit trail centres when the conditions are this bad, but that doesn't seem like it will be an option for the next couple of months. I've got an airshot and a big pot of stan's so I don't really mind swapping tyres round when the time comes.
It's not rocky round here. And I'm out my door straight onto a dirt track to the trails so I don't need to worry too much about hard surfaces. There are roots to dodge, but the majority of the trail is deep mud.
@lardman how are the grip levels of the Verdict compared to the Shorty in the mud? A marginal step up or a big, noticeable difference?
I go between a shorty and wetscream DD 27.5 on my rune V3. About 3/4 mile path climb to a 800ft trailhead that has 3 dh trails 300-400m that you would struggle to walk up right now. A good workout anyway under lockdown. I do take the Shorty DD to Ben Cleuch no issues. The wetscream can stay on for all the steep winch climb laps. I think I found the limit of the shorty last week and been loving the wetscream in steep hand cut trails that I built over lockdown.
The Verdict is a great tyre, but they do clog quicker than a shorty on the type of mud we have locally. It's pretty thick in places & it's also quite a big tyre so can 'float' on top of stuff.
If its not quite so sticky, it's really good & the Judge on the back works well too.
But, I do find the worse it gets then I tend to go MaxxGrip Shorty & DHR2 on the back. Then when it dries out, ditch the Shorty for an Assegai.
The MG shorty, MT DHR2 combo is excellent. You can deal with most things on the hill.
Issue with the mud tyres, is they are terrible on harder surfaces (rock/roots).
Agreed, I've only every tried a Wet Scream once in the Alps after a couple of days of ark-building rain, it felt like the answer to everyone's prayers as I left better, faster riders in my wake, in rim deep mud it felt someone had turned off physics and you could lean on them like a perfect dry day on a set of fresh soft-rubber High Rollers...
Right up to the point they were on anything but rim deep mud when they were a complete liability and I shit myself. The problem with mud and mud tyres are that mud generally comes with roots, shiny, slick, snipers waiting to prey on anyone who dares to stroll into their path, and mud tyres seem to be the worst kind of tyres for roots. Well, you can't have everything can you?
I'm read since really agro mud tyres like Wet Screams are really for people out for a nice ride on a wet day, they're for those thousand-yard-stare guys whose very existence is devoted to chasing 'tenths' and they're not really 'ready to ride' out of the box, they need to be trimmed and cut by a master aiming for perfection.
The problem with mud and mud tyres are that mud generally comes with roots, shiny, slick, snipers waiting to prey on anyone who dares to stroll into their path, and mud tyres seem to be the worst kind of tyres for roots.
This is where the Verdict Wet comes into its own IME.
I'm not saying it grips on wet roots, but it gives you just enough delay in slipping to be across them safely.
I doubt the Insta embedding works, but look at the length of those knobbles. And it has a squarer profile than tyres like the Shorty.
A cut down wet scream up front will give a chunk more grip than a shorty.
A shorty is pretty much a factory cut wet scream.
screamers and swamp things were always race day tyres for when it was proper sloppy. In slow reezay for extra grip...
I’m currently running a Michelin Mud Enduro / DHR2 combo on my hardtail. Our lockdown riding venue (Old Kilpatrick) is a swamp at the best of times haha - just now it’s under water / deep slop.
When you hit the slop the tyre is unreal, feels like cheating. Off camber slop lines are mind blowing! I did cut it down when I first got it, would be mental to pedal otherwise I think.
Mine is the older version and it had markings on the knobs for cutting it down.
I ran it at my normal 22psi and it felt awful; noticed it said 26psi minimum on the side and it’s been amazing there. A hard tyre to pedal but not as bad as a Mary DH I had previously. Doesn’t feel great on roots, seems to be knocked off line by them. Worked well in snow/ice and on the minimum rock I’ve ridden on it.
There was a great mud tyre test done around Innerleithen (peaty mud) on enduro magazine app (it’s an iPad app mag in case you don’t know it).
Found you a link https://enduro-mtb.com/en/back-issue-get-a-grip-mud-tire-group-test/
Tested proper mud tyres but Shorty won as an all rounder, however I think you’re right about maybe a dirty dan or Michelin mud for proper slop. Or Specialized storm.
I find my issue with Shorty rear (my current tyre) is spinning in muddy climbs in South Downs clag.
I did try a Michelin mud on the rear but on any hard trail it sucks the life out of your legs.
The Wet Scream was a great tyre in 26. It probably still is. The Panaracer (tracer?) mud tyre “designed for British mud” was a winner but I’m not sure it made it beyond 26”
Good luck. Down here it sometimes feels like you’re taking the bike out for a walk.
jam-bo in theory yes they are simmilar, in practice a cut wet scream has a lot more grip than a shorty - as in hugely better.
Running a Hillbilly this year in South Wales and it's been great. No packing up yet but it's been that sloppy that the mud is practically flowing.
Surprised the Shorty is getting clogged tbh but can't do a side by side to see if it's closer spaced than the HB.
I can't see a point where I'd want a true mud tyre outside of racing DH, and even then, the pros seem to rarely run them without cutting them down themselves.
jam-bo
Full MemberA shorty is pretty much a factory cut wet scream.
Ehh, not really, the tread pattern and construction is different. Inspiration only. Or maybe not even inspiration, really the shorty's dad is the original hillbilly not the wetscream.
I think there's enough here to encourage me to give it a go - especially from @lightfighter762 who seems to be running something similar.
I'll put in the order and report back.
I’ve ended up running cut spike style tyres as my default front because my local trails flip so quickly from wet and loose to dry and loose that the window where intermediates work best is very narrow.
Magic Mary clogs the most but is best on hardpack, Hillbilly is as good in the slop/loose as the Shorty and better on hard stuff, Shorty has the best compound (assuming MaxTerra vs Addis Soft) on rock but is worst on hard dirt.
None of them are super spiky so I can see a true spike working better in deep mud - I was going very sideways at the weekend with a Hillbilly up front. They’re all better than a Swampthing and a bit less horrible to pedal!
I bet Mud King DH are pretty good - I feel Continental’s rubber is more likely to work with a spike and not be a vague mess on rock or roots.
Any tips on how to best trim knobs? Just got some tyres for my elder daughter that need sorting to be decent for MTB but taking out some of the continuous centre tread (the joys of 24” tyre choice...)
There are YouTube videos of pro mechanics trimming knobs.
Schwalbe make a special Tyre cutting tool tool (not costly compared to a similar pair of cutters) which has an integral adjustable guide meaning the knobs all get trimmed pretty evenly.
Beware that it’s quite hard to just trim a little. The cutter needs something to get a hold of.
The tips end up concave post cutting but who cares
And a tyre has A LOT of knobs to cut. You’ll need a cuppa.
I've got a pair of WTB wardens, they're epic in the slop, 2.3 but come up narrow. Wish I'd had them at some stupidly slippery events I've done.
I paid £15 each, so good value. I used them once for a very muddy Pedalhounds at Penshurst. It was difficult to get my mind around how much grip I actually had and trust them, as it dried through the day it became apparent how draggy they were and being as they only came in the tough casing, very heavy. Although all relative when you have half the trail stuck to your bike.
Ultimately a true mud tyre for me will never wear out as if it's that bad out, unless it's a race I'll stay in bed.
"And a tyre has A LOT of knobs to cut. You’ll need a cuppa."
I did my first every stint of knob cutting this week. On the tyres for my daughter's new bike! Couldn't get a better 24" MTB tyre at a decent price so got these:
And have removed every fourth centre knob (next to the transition knobs) so it's got some more braking and driving grip in dirt.
They’re all better than a Swampthing and a bit less horrible to pedal!
this was my fave tyre ever for our local hill - we must have had teh exact conditions it was designed for (basically a swamp with a bit of gradient) as everyone else who rode in different places hated it!
the hillbilly is on at the moment (as they are cheap) and i think its better than my cut wetscreams i`ve used in teh past on my 26er big bike. seems to be ok on roots too but is weeping sealant on the bead on teh back as i think im trying too hard at the low pressures needed for grip.
pedalling the cut wetscream was a bloody mission. i loved putting the DHF`s on and getting noticable extra rolling speed.
@lardman how are the grip levels of the Verdict compared to the Shorty in the mud? A marginal step up or a big, noticeable difference?
I'd say they are quite a big step up. noticable in off camber corners in the gloop, where they hook up loads more.