[Closed] Mattoc Pro 3 - did i do a bad thing?

I'm one of a small band of manitou fans on here. Mattoc is a magnificent fork, superbly plush and supportive. Enjoy it!

My top tip for one idiosyncrasy - make sure the fork us unweighted when you add or remove pressure. When you connect the pump (to the valve on the bottom of fork) it opens both the negative and positive chambers and if there is weight on it it will sink into its travel. Best done on a stand, with the weight of the wheel hanging down, or any other way with the fork being actively extended.

Some have issues with a seeming lack of support from Hayes in the UK, they are smaller than the big usual. brands for sure.

I love my Mattoc, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised

Brilliant fork, support available direct just check their website if you have any issues.

You've bought yourself a great fork. I'm a long term Manitou fan and own 2 set's of Mattocs as well as various others and Manitou are one of the most unrated fork brands.

One of the best forks I've had. I had one on my Ibis DV9 hardtail at the time and It managed to be the most plush fork I've had with a great mid-stroke support that didn't dive under braking.

If I was in the market for a new fork, I'd have another.

I bought Mattoc Pro 3's last year for my Scandal build that I finally finished a few weeks ago. I'm really enjoying them, they feel like they've bedded in nicely in the last few rides.

(They were bought on the back of big_scot_nanny's Manitou love in thread)

I was a bit gutted when Manitou went the way of the dodo before Hayes bought them.

They've always done good forks, but the trick was getting the right ones amid the plethora of mediocrity.

X-Verts, TPC Nixons and Shermans for example.

My main concern now would not be performance, but support for service and spares into the future, since I run my forks for 4-5 years generally before changing.

Good feedback guys, thanks. It's going on a bike I normally have a lockout on, so particularly pleasing to hear it pedals well.
Thanks for the tip on pressure setting.

Worth noting that you can also adjust the travel when adjusting pressure. When your shock pump is attached you can just compress the fork slightly and it will stay at that travel when the pump is removed. It's an easy way to try slightly shorter travel if desired

awesome fork, ive literally had apair of used mattoc comps turn up to test on my hardtail, ive got 160 pros on my Aeris and i swaer by them
Id treat myself to pair of Mezzers if and when they get some discount
Only thing with Manitou is spares in the UK, not so easy to get as with other brands.. oh and the need for a ground down socket to get the lwoers off

I had a Mattoc on my old bike, went 29er and had to swap for a Pike. I miss the Mattoc.

@Mat - cool! I await my commission from Hayes 🙂

@reeksy - yes, whilst I always used lockout/firm on RS of Fox forks, just don't need to on Manitous. they hold you high in the travel so you don't feel the need to lockout, but still work as a suspension fork on the way up. Lovely

@alan1977 - I tried to grind down 2 sockets and ruined them both. in the end I bought the kit, which is dead Mandy as we've mattoc, Mezzer and Mastodons in the family, all use the same tools. Simples.

re the scoket, i havent tested it yet, but i picked up a hope pedal socket, and i think it might work, will know tonight.. its significantly cheaper than the whole manitou kit, if you already have the rest of the tools essentially

enjoy the IRT system. The LSC/HSC works really well and fairly easy to set up. Building up a 26er for the eldest and they have my old mattocs on them.

I love my Mattoc pro 2, best fork I've ever had, cheap to buy and easy to service.

The IRT system can take a bit of setting up, but worth spending the time to do it right.

I bought a Manitou McLeod shock as I was so impressed with the Mattoc. It's replaced a dbcoil inline and I much prefer it. It's 400g lighter and cost less than an annual service of of the cane creek.

The manitou support isn't the best in the UK, however there is loads of information on American forums and spares can be shipped in from Europe.

My Mattoc 2 pros are better than my Pike RTC.
I made a socket, some time with a Piller drill and a file.
The only thing that let them down was lack of a nicely fitting mudguard.
I made one from Kydex which was kind of ok.
The Crud XL however fits great and if clearance is tight the flap in the centre will fold up out of the way.

@big_scot_nanny condolences about Mandy 😉

I do all my own hamfisted bike maintenance, so i'll need to find out where to get parts ... being in Australia, it may be even harder. Looks like there's someone in NZ which may do the job. Tools look like they're horribly expensive though 🙁

So far i've found generic Mattoc manuals, presumably that means it covers all options?

IRT system sounds perfect for me.

The bit you need an thin socket for has a hex key fitting on the inside, so you can undo it with that to get lowers off.
It’s a pain to do up though as it pushes it back up, but I managed it and I’m a total noob at fork stuff.

That's good to know... weird that they specify the socket.

Anyone know if there's a specific manual for the Pro 3 that i'm not finding online?

For servicing or setup? I have quite a handy setup A4 sheet that came with the fork, I can't find the exact same one online. I can send a copy if needed.

Ignore the above, reading the rest of the posts I guess you mean servicing. Interested to know myself, I'd just assumed I'd use the generic guides.

in case useful for anyone, here's the tools that seem to work across all manitou forks.
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/manitou-tool-kit-mattoc-840011

In terms of service, there's very little difference between the forks, this should be what you need.

https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360036522933-Mattoc

dead handy Mandy 🙂

@alan1977 Any luck with the Hope pedal socket to remove the lowers?

no, tried it today, the outer diameter is a smidge too large, the socket isnt deep enough (i drilled mine) and the hex has a slight chamfered entry which would be better squared off

Does anyone’s lsc adjust do anything? Mine turns, but doesn’t affect the damping at all. I’m not expecting lockout, however some stiffening would be useful at times. I have manitou mastodons on the fatty and they work great. German retailer doesn’t respond. No reply from Hayes Europe, Hayes USA responded initially to my query but redirected me to Hayes Europe. No replies at all from anyone now. So are the forks defective and how to fix them?

Does anyone’s lsc adjust do anything?

I've pondered the exact same thing! I've not really felt I've needed it yet mind. My experimentation has just been opening/closing and pumping the fork whilst stationary, it doesn't feel like it gets any slower...

@big_scot_nanny thanks for the link. That's what i'd found, just wasn't sure it was up to date... i also found a Hayes Youtube that looks good.

I've set my Trace 36 HLR with a rented shockwhiz/wiz(?) It's pretty easy and i've been happy with their performance. If i get around to it with these i'll see whether the LSC makes any difference. Hoping for a good climber as it's going on my 'lighter' of my two steel hardtails.

there is mention in documentation (what I 'ave read, but can't provide the specific backup link/quote atm) that to get that 'lockout' or really obvious stiffening then both HSC&LSC need to be increased.

I am building up a steel fs enduro/park frame. Morph FS. Using a mezzer and a mara shock.

couldnt say if my LSC does much
after i fitted mine i noticed my LSC knob hasnt got much of a lever to grab hold off so i dont touch it, and being as its like 40 odd quid to get anohther....

on a side note, i won a cheap pair of Mattoc Pro's through wiggle's ebay outlet
but they werent Pro's, they were comps
i did a bottom end service yesterday, and set them to 150mm and put them on my hard tail to test/check they were working.the Dust seals were bone dry, apparently from factory like that....oil was clear so they were ssentially new
It doesnt feel like i needed any rebound damping at 100PSI (according to my cheap pump) although saying that, i was pinging off everything last night so may be wrong...
BUT
still bloody good forks, put in some surprising runs in the dark in sludge o na bike ive ridden twice

All this manitou love....I miss my Magnum pros.

Anyone selling a Mattoc or Magnum Pro in 29er boost 140 flavour by any chance? Or fancies swapping for some Pikes?

Chris

Love my Tower Pros. They're old now but they're a great fork.

I have a Mattoc Expert 26" mk1 versions. The LSC does make a difference on my fork you can feel the fork resisting pedal bob and being less supple. I think I have 4 or 5 clicks of adjustment on my forks and from lowest to highest setting there is a noticeable difference.

You need to slowly apply pressure on the fork, bouncing up and down on it while track standing will engage the high speed damping circuit instead.

I haven't tried any of the latest forks but years ago when the Mattoc's where new on the market they where by far the better damped fork compared to what Rockshox and Fox were offering.

I'd be interested to see how the latest Mattoc compare with the latest Pike or Fox 34.

I appreciate the feedback on LSC. Seems the jury's out a bit on this. i'm not a powerful rider but they bob a bit much on steep climbs (road/fireroad style). Every other fork I've ever had the LSC adjust makes a significant difference, and that includes Manitou Mastodon which I thought was essentially the same fork in fat bike version. Really pleased (overjoyed) with the Mastodon, less so with the Mattoc. Redeeming qualities as others have said, nice and supple & yet still stays high in travel. Way nicer to ride than some Fox 34's I had a couple of years ago. Probably not up to the standard set by my old Marzocchi 35 Titanium coil fork which remains exceptional.

For the narrow socket, does it need to be a deep one, and how thin is it, I might get a mate to reduce one on a lathe.
If it’s easy to do I could get a couple done, one for me and one as a ‘loaner’.

No, it doesn't have to be a deep socket. I just used a normal one from a boggo set when I ground it down.

You do have to grind down a fair length though, quite a lot of a socket goes inside the fork.

Damnit, thought I'd find mine to measure for anyone making one. It's gone! Having just spent ages searching for a reverb brass key, which turned up in my shoe, I'm a bit dis-chuffed. Can't face searching for it now.

LSC does do wat it should but you have to actually ride the bike not car park squish. If you feel like you need more LSC add a click of HSC.

I have the tool kit and just measured the socket. It is about 10.3mm in diameter and the thin region is about 15mm long.

If any one wants to borrow the tool kit. I'm more than happy to post it you as long as you pay a refundable deposit. Not looking to make any money, I just want to protect my self against it being lost in transit or being returned in a damaged state.

LSC does do wat it should but you have to actually ride the bike not car park squish. If you feel like you need more LSC add a click of HSC.

Thanks poah, will have more of a play!

Also I've realised the benefit of the tortoise and the hare on Rockshox forks! tweaking the Mattocs I'm always thinking does the + mean add more damping or remove damping and make rebound faster!

I've never had that problem my self. Always seemed obvious to me when twiddling eg the low speed compression damping knob, that "+" meant more low speed compression damping. ie it will resist low speed compression forces on the fork more than normal and dampen the compression force. But yours is not a rare comment on so I fully understand that I may be in the minority.

If you want confusion then try a BOS fork/shock where you get a choice of hard or soft rebound and compression adjustments, I still can't remember which way does what.

Halfords do an 8mm deep socket that can be ground down (the official tool is 10.4mm OD) from 11.5mm ISH, I know cos I've just spent an hour or so doing just that with a drill and a Dremel after cracking my official Manitou one. Remember the legs are reverse thread 🤣

The Lsc & Hsc work in conjunction with each other .so if you want more lsc add hsc first .

The Lsc & Hsc work in conjunction with each other .so if you want more lsc add hsc first

Yes I believe it is one of the quirks of the damper, something to do with shim stack pre-loading IIRC.

You will notice when the HSC is fully open the LSC doesn't do much. Apparently it becomes increasingly effective with each click of HSC.

When I'm pump tracking or jumping I have both fully closed!

I'm afraid all but the latest Mattocs have the same design fault that afflicted early Mezzers. Excessive bushing play is common with Mattocs and Minutes IME. Often it's not noticed by users because, in the main, the damping on the pro models is pretty sophisticated, especially when coming from more basic forks from other brands. The forks when new are also packed with grease, which keeps it quiet!

If your fork has bushing slop it feels like your headset is a tiny bit loose. Put your bike on it's back wheel and bounce it up and down. You will hear a buzzing vibration/rattle through the fork and you can feel it's at the stanchion lower junction with your hand. On the trails it manifests itself as stiffness/binding on fast washboard sections.

I’m afraid all but the latest Mattocs have the same design fault that afflicted early Mezzers. Excessive bushing play is common with Mattocs and Minutes IME

where did you get this information from? my mattoc is nothing like that and I haven't heard anything about bushing play either.

Had one the lowers were replaced under warranty. Brand new lowers and serviced but the play was still there. As the packed in grease runs out in use it is more noticeable! Mates got a Minute Comp from a Ragley same problem.

Hayes were not even able to get Mattocs to 2 (might have been 3) of the major review sites, that worked first time out of the box!

There's at least 2 published articles reporting bushing play with Mattoc test forks and the massive MTBR thread (mostly a Manitou love in) where people have reported the same problem.

Well fitted them now. Certainly seem nice and firm.

Weird how the stanchions are so long. 180mm on a 140mm travel fork. My other forks (160mm x-fusion 36 Trace) measure exactly 160mm.

Yes I believe it is one of the quirks of the damper, something to do with shim stack pre-loading IIRC.

It's not really a quirk, nor is it specific to Manitou. All compression and also rebound damping affects low speed and high speed to some degree, because they're effectively each end of the same circuit and are interelated. You can feel the effect on the X2 and 36 especially easily.

This video (or maybe in part 2) Steve explains in great depth how HSC and LSC are linked:

reeksy

Weird how the stanchions are so long. 180mm on a 140mm travel fork. My other forks (160mm x-fusion 36 Trace) measure exactly 160mm.

That does seem odd! Surely it will throw the geo way out. Have you checked how much travel is available?

@reeksy That doesn't sound right. The travel spacers reduce travel by increasing the amount of piston travel into the forks. The outers should move up the stanchions accordingly.

Didn't think to dump the air and fully compress, but compared with the 120mm Rockshox I replaced the lowers are a fair bit shorter...

Yeah the lowers can be shorter due to the reverse arch (I asked the same question when I first got mine out of the box!). Makes it a bit trickier to gauge appropriate sag!

Another thing I remembered.

If your HBO adjuster (didn't need 4 positions Manitou have dropped the feature for on/off) doesn't work, don't shit a brick and think your fork is buggered internally. It's just grit wedging it in. Undo the little allen bolt, take it out and clean it.......Easy eh, well just be very careful to not lose the two tiny ball bearings in either side of the knob. They're really small and easy to lose as they come flying out!

I prefer X-Fusions adjusters because they never jam up, due to being like an over cap on top of the stanchion, instead of bowl that collects shit Manitou, Fox (had the same problem with Fox adjusters in the past) and others.

On a positive note the damping of Mattocs is up there with the best. When I first got mine I used to put the front wheel into the worst ugly ruts and holes on the trails just for fun, so good is the repeated big hit handling! A Lyric slightly edges it for out and out composure, but not by much and usually costs a lot more.

Funny you say that, my Xfusion adjuster doesn't work!

180mmn visible stanchion on a 140mm fork doesn’t sound right.

They’ll be a little bit extra exposed even at full travel but that sounds excessive. I would expect around 150mm visible.

@chestercopperpot good to hear you think the quality of the damping still holds up with mainstream options.

New Mattoc 29 will definitely be on the shortlist when it comes to replacing the old 26” bike.

Just took delivery of a new set of Mattoc Comps and waiting or a Hope HeadDoctor arriving so I can get them fitted and used. They do have a lot of very favourable reviews and comments and also look and feel lovely in the flesh!