Just had this in 'over the wires' and while it's not quite a 'Stop the presses' story, it's of interest to anyone who follows XC racing. I'll update it with any news I get. It's been a while since I've seen a high-profile suspension/ban in top level XC. Is that because it's cleaned up/harder to cheat? Or have the riders just got better (or better at hiding PEDs)?
Mathias Flückiger has been provisionally suspended since receiving information about a positive A-sample. Flückiger was tested positive for an anabolic substance on the occasion of the Swiss Championships in Leysin, on June 5, 2022.
In the case of doping, zero tolerance applies in Team Thömus maxon Swiss Mountain Bike Racing. Team Thömus maxon wants clean and fair sport. It condemns doping with all determination. Together with Swiss Olympic, Swiss Cycling and Swiss Sport Integrity and the other partners involved, we will take the necessary steps to clarify the situation and then assess it further.
A decision on further cooperation with Mathias Flückiger will be made once the B sample is available.
Bloody hell!
TBH, and this is only my personal opinion, I have no evidence or facts to back it up, but I’d be surprised if any pro cyclist is truely clean. The ability to be juiced but only enough not to get caught is a world away from the Armstrong years.
It’s highly suspicious that almost all pro level athletes require medication to treat their asthma. Just sayin!
#whatgoesoninthewoodsstaysinthewoods
#yournotnormal
What % of pro athletes are receiving asthma treatment. A source would be good too
“ An assessment of the British Cycling team before the 2004 Olympics showed that around 40 per cent had asthma compared to only about eight per cent of the general population. For Dickinson, this discrepancy stands to reason.”
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/the-truth-about-cycling-and-asthma-317941
Yates (at least one of em), Steve Cummings, Chris Froome, Bradley Wiggins - all names that come up when you start looking at it
For flucks sake
Of all the XC riders he’s prob the one I’d be least surprised about. He’s seemed like a man on the edge for years trying to break out of Nino’s shadow as the dominant Swiss rider. Still a shame if true though.
I’ve been getting into the XC lately, watched the race where Schurter took out his rival…. And the last one where the two of them were mincing about near the finish and out of nowhere the 3rd placer came at the commonwealth games.
Also Warner commentates it, makes it even more appealing!
I think I first got into it watching Pidcock in I think Japan, when he overtook a rider by sending it huge and literally went right over him!
Remember seeing him at the Otley races years ago too and he was very strong then!
The only shocking thing in this story is that anyone would be shocked about a pro cyclist doping up.
What are they going to suspend him from ... and for how long do you think? Will he be allowed to take anything to help him through the ordeal?
“ An assessment of the British Cycling team before the 2004 Olympics showed that around 40 per cent had asthma compared to only about eight per cent of the general population. For Dickinson, this discrepancy stands to reason.”
Doesn't;t the fact you are pushing your lungs to the limit for long periods of time actually cause some that asthma, i.e. it is not genetic, from birth type asthma.
Read the article my good man 😉
^ RE that article and OT I know..
Harder to resolve are suspicions surrounding the more potent tablet and injected forms of the asthma drugs called corticosteroids (or glucocorticoids), such as triamcinolone — the substance for which Wiggins was granted a TUE before the 2011 and 2012 editions of the Tour de France.
There is no doubting corticosteroids can be effective and necessary treatments for asthma and allergies, but questions remain over whether Wiggins’s use of triamcinolone — a drug known to be performance-enhancing — was clinically and ethically justified.Dickinson refrains from passing judgement on Wiggins, but admits: “I had to look up [triamcinolone] because I don’t come into contact with athletes who are using it — it is stronger than oral corticosteroids.
If inhalers alone aren’t working, you’d usually go to an oral corticosteroid; the intra-muscular forms are even stronger.”
Such potent injections are prescribed only in cases where the asthma patient is seriously unwell, explains Dickinson.But Wiggins was nearing his competitive peak. Was he really in a bad enough state to need this medication?
“It’s difficult for me to say, not having assessed him at the time,” says Dickinson,
Hmmm.
Am I suprised when any top racer is using things we don't understand and don't seem normal for a fit athlete? No. Do I understand what's reasonable or not? No. It's all a bit murky so either be clear and make it easy for people to believe you, or accept you're always going to look a bit shady because the history of bike racing is a history of drug cheating.
In Fluckinger's case maybe best to see what happens with B samples rather than jump to conclusions, but.. Hmmm.
I wonder how many people have been caught out on A samples and then found completely in the clear on their B samples....
I'd bet... Not as many as we'd maybe like to think.
Froome clearly does have asthma, watch any post race interview
Given that Men's XC must be one of the hardest aerobic sports, I'm not surprised that someone's been tempted. Surprised it's such a high profile athlete though.
I always feel a bit sorry for Froome who is clearly asthmatic and uses medication with no benefit if your not asthmatic getting tainted by those using drugs that can have huge benefits
Thanks for the article. If nothing else 40% isn’t most athletes
I wonder how many people have been caught out on A samples and then found completely in the clear on their B samples….
I’d bet… Not as many as we’d maybe like to think.
I did a bit of digging on this 3 or 4 years ago, looking at published data from the UCI and results from WADA/UKADA/USADA/ASADA i think.
After all the shouting is done and dusted about 2/3rds of "failed" A sample drugs tests result in no action taken (think they call it "no case to answer" or something), there's either paperwork in place (TUE), an actual medical condition, B sample comes back ok, A sample was contaminated (happens rarely, but still too often) or contaminated food etc. All depends on the arguments put forward.
When i was looking cycling had the greatest rate of testing, plus the lowest rate of failed tests (by a ****ing HUGE margin, something like 5-8%) and the highest level of punishment. TBH, since it went to a 4 years ban, it's effectively career ending unless you're under about 25.
The scary thing was that some sports still had an almost 100% failure rate on drugs test. Despite this, it's almost impossible to find out who failed the tests, or how they were punished (if at all).
I mean, a few premier league footballers or tennis players failing tests for HGH and/or Steroid based medication should have at least resulted in a few long term unexpected absences from competition...
Froome clearly does have asthma, watch any post race interview
That's not asthma though. He's not gasping for breath most of the time just coughing his lungs up from the last effort.
Not saying he doesn't have a diagnosis for asthma though.
I wonder how many people have been caught out on A samples and then found completely in the clear on their B samples….
I’d bet… Not as many as we’d maybe like to think.
Basically none. Of the few who get away with it it's generally on a technicality.
More interesting is if it's upheld Nino becomes the male rider to win the most rounds of the MTB world cup as he'll inherit this from the week after the test.
Would be a bit of a let down for Nino I'd imagine.
He pulled out of two races recently, I wonder if that's because he know he was "over the limit".
From a Pinkbike report on the altercation between Nino and Fluckiger, published last month:
Once he had crossed the line Nino Schurter went over to Mathias Flückiger where SRF captured him shouting: "You're not normal! f*ck! you shot me down." [Du bist nicht normal! f*ck! Du hast mich abgeschossen.]
I don't need to tell you folks what "not normal" means, and how cyclists don't use the phrase lightly.
Did Nino know?
When i was looking cycling had the greatest rate of testing, plus the lowest rate of failed tests (by a ****ing HUGE margin, something like 5-8%) and the highest level of punishment. TBH, since it went to a 4 years ban, it’s effectively career ending unless you’re under about 25.
For all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about drugs in cycling and "they are all it", if you test more then you find more, and the punishments are relatively severe by sporting standards.
The only shocking thing in this story is that anyone would be shocked about a pro cyclist doping up.
This sadly.
On a personal note I'm gutted that - a swiss rider - on the face of it has been caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Got a bit of loyalty to the swiss having spent a lot of time there over the yrs.
Something I know quite a lot about. The report is of an adverse drug result in an A sample. This sounds like a leak from somewhere like the lab. Normally it is up to the athlete to give an explanation for the ADR. Failure to give a satisfactory explanation leads to a report of a negative test result and then action of the governing body (UCI).
Anabolic steroids (and their metabolites) detection is strict liability, but there are other sources than doping than the obvious one. Many over the counter supplements carry low level contamination, and top athletes pay a lot to only source tested supplements. Whilst food contamination is an unlikely source, don’t eat meat in Colombia (it’s perfectly legal in that country to treat cattle) if you are a professional athlete. There have been even more unlikely sources of contamination but I won’t go there.
I won’t comment on Froome, suffice to say that I wrote his defence, which was accepted by UCI and WADA, and showed up the shortcomings in the way that salbutamol is tested for in cycling in particular. Wiggins received a slow release injectable corticosteroid for longer action against rhinitis, whilst it may not be typical it was perfectly legal.
Athletes typically develop exercise induced asthma, that’s not the same as childhood asthma. The treatments, typically a bronchodilator such as salbutamol, confer no advantage and you can’t really take them to excess. The testing thresholds for salbutamol is a level above some threshold rather than presence or absence. A therapeutic use exception is required. Suffice to say professional athletes know and keep track of everything they put in their bodies.
Will watch this one with interest.
EDIT: he’s tested positive for zeranol, which is an animal growth promoting anabolic agent. That’s notable. Such agents aren’t allowed in the EU beef production, but are in the US, Canada and elsewhere.
Re. asthma, when I was training very hard at athletics a lot of people did develop exercise induced asthma, including myself. That group included a bunch of olympians, world XC competitors regional champions etc. Now I typically only get it when I get to the top of a long hill and back off intensity.
So the asthma numbers make perfect sense to me .
When i was looking cycling had the greatest rate of testing, plus the lowest rate of failed tests (by a ****ing HUGE margin, something like 5-8%) and the highest level of punishment.
From what I've read cycling is actually a bit of a standout for anti-doping. Certainly not perfect but I read once about how most tennis players could go a whole year without getting an out of competition test. Probably 10 years ago now, but I was pretty surprised.
Had a mate who was a technician/engineer on the mass spectrometers at the 2004 Olympics - said there were so many positives, they kept being asked to check the machines to make sure they weren't faulty. There are a lot of coverups in athletics around that time, and obviously in the 80's and 90's, what with Carl Lewis et al
a US athlete tested positive to steroids in 1999 but was allowed to compete - and win an Olympic gold - in the 2000 Sydney Games. US officials still refuse to divulge the name of the athlete, or those of 13 other athletes who had failed drug tests around the same time, citing privacy laws.
So cycling has a pretty bad rep, but I think it's probably not doing bad in the grand scheme of things!
So he tested positive for Zeranol, which as pointed out above, is not allowed in EU beef production. Seems like he will find it hard to come up with a reason its in his body "accidentally" then.
Whatever the outcome, this will just add to the general feeling that to win at this level you have to beat the cheaters. So to do that you have to cheat.
This sadly.
On a personal note I’m gutted that – a swiss rider – on the face of it has been caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Got a bit of loyalty to the swiss having spent a lot of time there over the yrs.
The Swiss have as much form on this than any other country with top level cycists (and any other athlete)
Athletes typically develop exercise induced asthma, that’s not the same as childhood asthma. The treatments, typically a bronchodilator such as salbutamol, confer no advantage and you can’t really take them to excess.
Slight tangent, but when I did a few CX races 3 years ago I always had to pull up around lap 3 with asthma symptoms, despite usually being reasonably warmed up on the turbo and none of the races being exceptionally cold. I never experience symptoms outside of racing.
Morally then could I justify an inhaler for EIA? I'd only really want it so I could enjoy the racing more, not expecting my results to magically improve, but would still feel a bit dubious if I thought I could just be warming up more or training better or something...
I won’t comment on Froome, suffice to say that I wrote his defence, which was accepted by UCI and WADA, and showed up the shortcomings in the way that salbutamol is tested for in cycling in particular. Wiggins received a slow release injectable corticosteroid for longer action against rhinitis, whilst it may not be typical it was perfectly legal.
Still not a believer on Froome.
https://cyclingtips.com/2018/05/research-paper-raises-questions-about-salbutamol-tests-may-aid-froomes-defence/
It’s highly suspicious that almost all pro level athletes require medication to treat their asthma. Just sayin!
So the folk I ride with who use an Inhaler are odds-on cheaters?
I am familiar with that paper - and I work with one of the authors. The defence was a lot more detailed and showed that UCI and WADA had ignored some obvious issues with regards to salbutamol and their testing regime. Specifically if you dose regularly, you will see drug accumulation doubling levels, if you are dehydrated (WADA studies were for a single dose in swimmers) you will see even higher urine levels, and if you test someone 23 times in a row, then the chance of at least ONE positive (i.e., over the allowed salbutamol threshold) over a tour is multiplied from say 3% for one test to 50% over a tour.
The multiplicity of a rare event due to serial testing was central to Froome's case and previously ignored by WADA.
Morally then could I justify an inhaler for EIA?
I did, and it gets used, but only when i'm training or racing.
When training (or racing) i'll use it a couple of times a week, maybe more.
I haven't done much riding this last two or three years, i don't even know where my inhaler is because i haven't needed to use it...
So i'm probably a drug cheat and should be banned for 4 years.
Oh man this is so disappointing for the XCO, although he did seem quite intense I quite liked him. It’s correct that Nino won’t want to win it this way.
Re EIB as above, I suffer too and can confirm that I can ride long and hard but it’s then when I back off the coughing starts, more so in colder temps. Issues like this though just increase the suspicion.
Was it Operation Puerto that had details of various top sports people from various sports - tennis, football, ice skating (I think), american football, cycling and swimming (amongst others) and out of them all, only the cycling ones were followed up on? I didn't much attention to it but do recall thinking at the time why those governing bodies weren't chasing these down...
If so, it does suggest that although cycling is considered dirty with drug taking, it does appear to be more open about the testing and results - I suspect the scandal for the other sports for some high-end athletes in those sports suddenly being found out to be taking enhancements probably doesn't sit well with the governing bodies...
So i’m probably a drug cheat and should be banned for 4 years.
Amateurs do not require a TUI. If tested and a positive result is noted in a BC event, the athlete has some time to provide an explanation (a retrospecrive prescription from the doctor is sufficient). That way BC and other authorities are not inundated with TUIs! A most recent case is a ban of a TTer for "borrowing" some steroids for a mouth ulcer.
If you want to look at a dirty sport, try rugby 🙁
With enough supporting evidence Sky would probably have bankrupted the UCI and WADA over it. Easy decision to accept that they were possibly incorrect than pursue it further.
I can't comment on whether the WADA way was incorrect but as far as I can tell they still stand by it and the fact other poorer riders/teams have been sanctioned for the same issue previously suggests money won.
https://www.dopeology.org/incidents/Froome-adverse-analytical-finding/
Was he due to race tonight at the Euros? I know Pidcock is in, before worlds next week.
He would have been racing the Euros. Red Bull coverage suggested he was resting up by not going to North America which seemed strange when he was in with a decent chance of still taking the series. Especially so seeing that Nino didn't race one and faded a bit at the end of the other.
More likely they were informed about the positive but there is no need to make an A sample public although mostly in Road cycling they do as it makes sense with the history to be ahead of the story.
The Swiss have as much form on this than any other country with top level cycists (and any other athlete)
Well duhhh.....I'm not suprised - just disappointed.
suggests money won
The defence was provided pro bono. It wasn't money 😉 . This is a nice summary https://www.lawinsport.com/news/item/wada-clarifies-facts-regarding-uci-decision-on-christopher-froome
Previous riders might have had a similar defence, but unless the defence is provided in a timely manner, then a conviction will stand. Petacchi being a case in point.
As for Fluckiger, he will have been informed of the ADR and will have withdrawn from the events for that reason (results would not stand if upheld). Normally an ADR is confidential pending explanation. This finding might be a harder one to explain. The supplement is a Merck Animal Health product available in Spain, apparently, and the "Contador Defence" (yes it is a legal thing) might be a thing. It's surprisingly hard to prove unless an athlete can provide a very recent negative test before the positive, an exclusion of all other sources, and often a sample of the food consumed. There is also a geographical statistical argument (most positives occur in South America where contamination is rife). I've just dealt with such a case.
Amateurs do not require a TUI.
Not familiar with the whole state of drug controls in amateur cycling anymore, though i have been tested in elite/pro races (~20 years ago though!).
That’s not asthma though. He’s not gasping for breath most of the time just coughing his lungs up from the last effort.
I don't know if you suffer from asthma or not? but I do, and when mine plays up it doesn't often have me gasping for breath but rather coughing.
Now some science for the defence... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22095651/
Positive tests for zeranol can be due to contamination with a natural cereal contaminant mycotoxin zearelenone, which is converted to zeranol (and subsequently to its metabolites). Whilst a positive test for zeranol has been reported (leaked), what matters will be the presence or absence of the mycotoxin zearelenone and its metabolites (which are not the same as zeranol's). The study linked above showed that of the four positive tests for zeranol in athletes at a German lab, all were positive for the mycotoxin as well. If you take the synthetic growth promotor, you won't have these additional positives.
Hence my suspicion is that they'll now be looking hard at the samples for other metabolites of the mycotoxin, and should they be present, this will go away. If they are absent, then squeaky bum time. This is why the process should not be public until concluded.
He pulled out of two races recently, I wonder if that’s because he know he was “over the limit”.
Antidoping agencies can (and do) turn up at any time not just at races. Dropping out of events because you are worried getting caught is surely likely to increase suspicion and make you more likely to get an at home visit.
Just chipping in to say TiRed’s I put is exactly the reason I was happy to chip in with a membership. Keep it coming please.
I’ve followed road cycling since 2008/9 so I’ve been hoovering up quite a bit of forum chatter on doping but nothing close to this level of insight 👍🏻
I thought the traditional way of avoiding an in competition test when you’re pretty sure you’ve not cycled off properly was to pull out of that even with something like a groin-strain (which is usually hard to prove and heals quickly). Now think back to all the sporting events you’ve watched where a top athlete has withdrawn at last minute with hamstring cramp, groin strain, etc?
If this was an equivalent road cyclist, the cycling media would be all over it; MTB is lucky for once that it's largely ignored, and very little has been reported - mostly the MTB websites/media.
Another to find the insights of TiRed most interesting.
I won’t comment on Froome, suffice to say that I wrote his defence, which was accepted by UCI and WADA, and showed up the shortcomings in the way that salbutamol is tested for in cycling in particular. Wiggins received a slow release injectable corticosteroid for longer action against rhinitis, whilst it may not be typical it was perfectly legal.
Can I change the tone of my "Hmmm...' to a "hmm?"
@prawny +1. Really interesting posts TiRed, I hadn't realised there was such direct expertise on here. Having read your posts I'd agree with what you say about this being something that shouldn't be public until further investigation. A void of detail and understanding gets filled with all kinds of emotive stuff from the fans.
Was it Operation Puerto that had details of various top sports people from various sports
Yes the Spanish authorities were quite keen not to investigate further.
Make of that what you will.
Cycling gets the news because it did actually try to tackle it. Whereas most sports are sitting there often trying the "this sport is about skill and hence peds wont help".
I mean it's not like his results have taken a dramatic upturn in recent months 😉
Petropolis (April) XCO 14th, XCC 6th so not subject to podium testing, just the chance of a random.
Albstadt (6th - 8th May) XCO 13th, XCC 11th again not subject to podium testing, just the chance of a random.
Nove Mesto (13th - 15th May) XCO 6th, XCC 19th so not subject to podium testing, just the chance of a random.
Swiss Nationals (4th - 5th June) XCO winner, tested, subsequently busted.
Lenzerheide (10th - 12th July) XC) 3rd after the infamous coming together, was leading, XCC 2nd in sprint finish.
Really interesting posts TiRed, I hadn’t realised there was such direct expertise on here.
Agreed on the TiRed posts, but come on, direct expertise on all subjects not just doping is more common on here than PEDs in professional sports. 😜
when mine plays up it doesn’t often have me gasping for breath but rather coughing
I know of at least one rugby coach* who doesn't believe that exercise induce asthma is a condition. I pointed out that the cough I had that morning was due to a hard commute 30 minutes ago and was probably that thing they think doesn't exist. (*Worrying as they coach juniors who may not have a formal diagnosis).
shouldn’t be public until further investigation
To be fair, had the Froome result not been leaked, I would not have known and become involved. That I had the expertise was fortuitous. I've dealt with a lot of cases since, none in cycling. They are all different but Froome's was probably the most newsworthy, but not the most scientifically challenging. Suffice to say that things are often more complex than they seem, and sometimes the science is less clear. Media does not do nuance.
I will note one thing that's pretty universal; Sports Science studies in general are woefully underpowered (too small), and analysed using statistics that are often poor (don't account for outliers). If I worked to the same standard in my day job, I wouldn't have a job!
Someone posted up a few days ago about getting a visit by a suspect doping test team but the rider wasn't at his place fo stay - is this linked to that visit?
@DickBarton That was me - no.
@Jameso Not at all, The expertise on here is fantastic, and I love it. Just amazes me the breadth and depth we have.
Ok, thanks.
To be fair, had the Froome result not been leaked, I would not have known and become involved.
Where were you for Diego!
https://www.dopeology.org/incidents/Ulissi-positive/
Very intersting info though.
My understanding then is you proved that it might not be a doping infraction and could be a natural occurence from correct use. It didn't prove he wasn't. Or is that incorrect? Sky would then have applied their muscle to ensure that there was a very unsatisfactory finish to it that was fudged by the UCI and WADA.
I disagree these things should be public from day 1 as there is no trust in sporting bodies as they have hidden them for many many years where possible. See Armstrong for example. Tennis is currently mired in a potential coverup.
Tennis has been mired in coverups as long as i've been aware of doping... Same as football.
Main difference seems to be the amount of money sloshing round to make sure nothing untoward is leaked to the press. Both from the clubs and the NGBs.
I don’t think football even bothers to cover up. Didn’t Rio Ferdinand once claim that his twice a year ‘random’ drug tests were too many?
FIFA just don’t bother and don’t care enough about it because “football is a game of skill and PEDs won’t make a difference”. Apparently being much stronger, faster and fitter than your opponents and less tired at the end of the match wonky effect their ability to perform.
It didn’t prove he wasn’t. Or is that incorrect?
Logically, one cannot prove a negative. You can however prove that the result is consistent with expected values even for normal regular dosing, and that if you test often enough, then a positive result is much more likely than common sense would predict. In this instance, the scientific explanation was accepted by WADA and the UCI unchallenged (it's a pretty obvious one when you think about it). Sadly for Diego, I was otherwise engaged but I have looked at the case since, same for Pettachi. Basically a qualitative test for salbutamol was being applied with a threshold that was poorly defined.
Were you to be accused of something professionally that was potentially career-limiting, you wouldn't want it all over the media before you've had a chance to address the accusations, no? Some negative cases are reported in full, Tennis included. Others are not. It's always going to be hard to satisfy the "no smoke without fire" pitchforks.
@tomlevel have you read any of the stuff about Froome and Salbutamol. It’s really interesting
Generally in sport the idea of testing is straight forward. You’re not allowed it in your system so if it’s found in system your in trouble.
The Salbutamol is so much harder from the off. You are allowed to take a certain amount with a TUI. How do you know much some one took? There is no simple relationship between what you take and the concentration in your urine. Why would there be?
Secondly I have never seen anything that suggests that there is any benefit to using salbutamol other than to relieve asthma symptoms. It’s not even clear from what I’ve read why there is a salbutamol limit other than possibly rider welfare.
FLÜCK!
It’s not even clear from what I’ve read why there is a salbutamol limit other than possibly rider welfare.
I thought it helped with weight loss? A quick Google suggests this is true but I didn't delve into sources
I thought it helped with weight loss? A quick Google suggests this is true but I didn’t delve into sources
I thought that was the one Wiggins took
I mean it’s not like his results have taken a dramatic upturn in recent months
the problem with this is it brings into question other results. Which is more natural, Rebecca McConnells utter dominance early season then sudden decline, or Courtney/Neff slowly coming to the front over the season? But in Neffs case winning XCC and XCO in the same weekend after only being top 20% all year and fading toward then end of all races.
I’m a strong believer that professional athletes like have a maximum of 2-3 peak periods in performance per annum, and those need to coincide with some great fortune and not clash with other athletes for that kind of clean dominance. I’m not saying Nino is clean although he very well could be, but he peaked for some wins, fell backward in the results, and appears to be coming forward again in time for the World Champs. Is this then a more natural and clean progressive cycle or perhaps an incredibly naive view of things?
It’s hard to know what to believe these days, which kind of forces you to bury your head in the sand if you want to actually enjoy what you are watching IMO.
I thought it helped with weight loss?
It does if you’re a mouse 😉 . The doses given in those studies are not really tolerable in humans. The tremors, hypokalaemia and increases in heart rate won’t be performance enhancing. Wiggins took a corticosteroid not a beta again most.
Both are commonly prescribed for asthma, the beta agonist (salbutamol) is a bronchodilator not a prevention and is taken up to four times a day. The notable thing for Wiggins was that he had a slow release corticosteroid injection rather than multiple sprays up the nose.
I took the grandchild of salbutamol into the clinic (along with four other beta agonists). It’s taken once a day. I also worked on the follow on for Flonase (corticosteroid) for rhinitis. Also once a day. Never worked on an injectable steroid. I’ve also worked on a few other drugs that are banned already and have not yet made it to medicines. One is a SARM and another boosts EPO levels. They’re already tested for - pharma notified WADA of drugs that have potential for abuse very early in development.
I thought it helped with weight loss
Not mixing it up with clenbuterol are you? I think bodybuilders have form for abusing that for weight loss.
Got a bit of loyalty to the swiss having spent a lot of time there over the yrs.
Interesting. The view I get is that the more time people spend with Swiss the less they feel for them.
Mainly Germans TBF so perhaps there's some national level animosity there.
